House of Commons Hansard #114 of the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was debt.

Topics

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This summary is computer-generated. Usually it’s accurate, but every now and then it’ll contain inaccuracies or total fabrications.

Protecting Young Persons from Exposure to Pornography Act First reading of Bill S-209. The bill proposes to restrict the access of young people to online pornographic material, aiming to enhance the protection of children and youth in online environments. 100 words.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth Fund Members debate the government’s proposed Canada Strong fund, a $25-billion sovereign wealth fund that the Liberal government argues will catalyze nation-building projects and drive long-term prosperity. Conservatives and the Bloc Québécois criticize the initiative, characterizing it as a "debt fund" financed by borrowing rather than surpluses, and warn of political interference in investment decisions. They also argue it unnecessarily duplicates the mandate of the existing Canada Infrastructure Bank and risks squandering taxpayer money on politically motivated projects. 34100 words, 4 hours.

Statements by Members

Question Period

The Conservatives condemn the government’s inflationary spending and "credit card budgeting," arguing that rising debt interest now outpaces healthcare funding. They highlight surging food insecurity and high housing costs across Canada. Additionally, they criticize selling public assets to fund programs and the admission of a former Iranian official into the country.
The Liberals highlight Canada’s strong fiscal position and investments in skilled trades. They promote the groceries and essentials benefit, affordable housing, and environmental strategies. Furthermore, they discuss managing U.S. tariffs, supporting small craft harbours, and the inadmissibility of Iranian officials to protect the safety of Canadians.
The Bloc condemns massive oil subsidies while SMEs face tariffs and the media struggles. They criticize fossil fuel tax credits and demand a public inquiry into Cúram's failures affecting seniors' pensions.
The NDP criticizes the government's corporate-focused spending and cuts to addiction programs while toxic drug deaths rise in Winnipeg.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth Funds Members debate a proposed $25-billion national sovereign wealth fund announced to catalyze private investment. The Liberal government defends the initiative as a strategic tool to secure equity in national projects and foster long-term prosperity. Conversely, the Conservative opposition criticizes the fund, characterizing it as a "sovereign debt fund" built on borrowing rather than surpluses. They argue it relies on reckless spending and political cronyism. The Bloc Québécois expresses concerns regarding the fund's lack of transparency and potential support for fossil fuels. 17000 words, 2 hours.

National Framework on the Durability of Electronic Products and Essential Home Appliances Act Second reading of Bill C-267. The bill, introduced by Abdelhaq Sari, aims to create a national framework regarding the durability and repairability of electronic products. While some members urge committee study, critics like Arnold Viersen argue the legislation is overly vague and broad. Additionally, some opposition members contend the proposal duplicates provincial jurisdiction and fails to address the specific needs of the agricultural sector. 7800 words, 1 hour.

Adjournment Debates

Funding for B.C. housing projects Elizabeth May urges the federal government to create a targeted program for shovel-ready, non-profit housing projects in British Columbia that are imperiled by scrapped provincial funding. Jennifer McKelvie outlines broad federal housing investments and encourages applicants to utilize existing federal portals rather than creating a province-specific program.
Affordability and cost of living Grant Jackson and Jonathan Rowe critique the government's fiscal management and failure to boost food production, arguing that high spending drives inflation. Jennifer McKelvie defends the government's record, citing the spring economic update, tax relief measures like the fuel excise suspension, and the new Canada groceries and essentials benefit.
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Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Bloc

Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, I asked the hon. member for Kings—Hants a question about the fact that this fund will finance oil and gas projects, even as we face challenges related to climate change. Climate change does not really worry him, though. He says it does, but he did not answer the question.

My question was clear. Does my hon. colleague agree with the government taking $25 billion of public money and using it to fund projects involving liquefied natural gas, pipelines or oil sands, or other projects that would increase production? Is it acceptable to use public funds for that, given that these projects contribute to climate change, among other things?

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, that is a good question. At the moment, I do not agree with investing Canadian taxpayers' money in projects carried out by other investors in Canada. The problem with Canada right now is that regulations are too focused on investment in the sector that is the most important part of the Canadian economy. We need a regulatory system that works better for the whole country.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Mr. Speaker, I just want to make this really simple for the government. They are running a $66‑billion deficit this year. That means there is no extra wealth or surplus to put into a fund to be able to invest in anything. What they are doing is the equivalent of taking a credit card and then using the credit card to buy into, for example, a child's registered education savings plan or something to that effect. It is taking on more debt to put money away.

Could my colleague explain a little further why their terrible finance record is making this impossible to actually work properly?

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague very much for that, because there is a part of my speech I did not get to: the cost of debt. The more that is borrowed, the higher the cost of debt goes up. It is not just linear but actually exponential. He will know that because he is a good financier as well.

The issue, of course, is that the more the government piles on, the more it is borrowing money. It wants to borrow more money. The beneficiaries are the people who are lending the money. There is no risk in lending Canada money. Those rates are going to go up. The people at risk are the people who are actually bearing the equity investment, and that is going to be shovelled onto the backs of Canadians in this exercise. That risk is going to be borne exponentially, as the cost of capital goes up and as the risk that the government puts on these projects goes up. The government wants to finance a whole bunch of things that the market does not want to finance. That is the problem.

Here is the solution: Change the regulations, and we will get things done in this country.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to join in debate today on our opposition day motion on the sovereign debt fund. The motion reads:

That, given that,

(i) sovereign wealth funds must have wealth that comes from budget surpluses and resource revenues,

(ii) this government has run no surpluses, only deficits for the last 11 years and has no funds to invest,

(iii) the Prime Minister is proposing to put his 25-billion-dollar fund on the national credit card, which will cause further inflationary pressure,

(iv) the Prime Minister has already created 12 new Crown corporations, agencies and bureaucracies,

(v) when government directs capital, it always goes to the politically powerful and not the deserving,

(vi) there is over 1 trillion dollars in pension fund money that Liberals have pushed out of Canada that we could bring back with faster permits, lower taxes and free enterprise,

(vii) the rising cost of fuel and food is already burdening hard working Canadians who cannot afford to pay more for handouts to Liberal insiders and corporate elites,

therefore, the House call on the government to abandon this sovereign debt fund.

This is what we are talking about today. I find it so ironic. I come from the province of Saskatchewan, with hard-working and good people in agriculture, mining, oil and gas, manufacturing, small business and entrepreneurship. We have been through this before. We have seen this movie before in Saskatchewan, where the government thinks it knows how to invest money better than the private sector. It was called “16 years of nothing under an NDP government”.

There is someone in the House who was part of that NDP government, from northern Saskatchewan, and they were a disaster in government in Saskatchewan. Actually, the old joke in Saskatchewan when the NDP was in government was that the last one to cross the Alberta border turned out the lights. That is how dim it became in Saskatchewan under the NDP.

I see this same movie replaying itself nationally with the Liberal government, the tired 11‑year Liberal government. It looks very similar to the NDP government that was in Saskatchewan.

I would like to look back and talk about some of the investments a tired old NDP government made in Saskatchewan. There were failed investments, and it lost hundreds of millions of taxpayers' dollars. This was back in the mid- to late 1990s and early 2000s. It lost $15 million in Channel Lake. It lost $72 million in Navigata. One of the biggest boondoggles in Saskatchewan was $35 million with Spudco, a failed potato company.

All these just bring back memories. When I hear the Liberals talk about the sovereign debt fund, it reminds me of all the money we lost in Saskatchewan under an NDP government that thought it knew how to invest money better than the private sector. The actual total loss in Saskatchewan over those years was 283.5 million tax dollars in failed investments by the government. That was in 1995 dollars to 2000 dollars, which would be over $1 billion now.

That really looks like what we are talking about today. The government never does better than the private sector. That is why we continue to talk about why we need better investments. If the government wants to attract more investment in this country, it should start with getting rid of red tape. It should start with getting rid of Bill C-69 and the shipping ban on the west coast of Vancouver. There are so many things the government could do that would not put more tax dollars at risk, which is what it is doing today with the sovereign wealth fund.

Lots of these Liberal members want to be compared to Norway, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. They want to be compared to all the other wealth funds that were set up. There is one huge difference, and Canadians need to realize this. The biggest difference between those funds and this one is that their government did it with surplus dollars. Surplus budgets went into a sovereign fund to be used to make sure the next generations had money. They did not put it on a credit card. If the government of the day wants to start something like this, the first thing it has to do is get its budget in order. It needs to get to a point where there is enough investment in the country to have surplus budgets to then invest dollars.

Another huge difference between what this Prime Minister wants to do and what was done in Norway is that the money was not invested in Norway; it was invested outside of Norway. Those are huge terms of reference that are very different from what the government is doing here today.

I really appreciate the comments by the previous speaker, my friend from Calgary Centre. He is very knowledgeable about the financial sector. He said that this fund is just like all the other funds the government has set up, such as the failed Canada Infrastructure Bank, which made a pipeline in China and did not build one in Canada. We do not realize that this fund is very similar to the green slush fund.

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, that was the Asian infrastructure bank that they put money into. I will correct the record because, unlike some other members, I like to be as factual as possible and not misleading.

I remember that right before the last election, this Parliament was seized with another slush fund, the green slush fund. Actually, a Liberal Speaker approved a question of privilege where we could not go past the debate about the green slush fund, and $300 million to $400 million of taxpayer money was given to Liberal insider friends and elites. There were 186 conflicts of interest in that $300-million slush fund.

Can members imagine, once the banker buddy of the Prime Minister gets appointed as CEO and all of his Laurentian elite friends become board members, how many conflicts of interest are going to be in the sovereign debt fund by the time the Liberals are done giving out $25 billion to some of their best friends and insiders? That is what we are talking about right now as being a political economy. The average hard-working Canadian is $200 away from being bankrupt at the end of the month. There is always more month left than there are dollars in their bank account. However, politically connected insiders with the Liberals have never had it so good.

I cannot go on without talking about the fiscal update. This spring fiscal update is fantastic for bankers and bondholders. They have never had it so good. The fastest-increasing budget item is $60 billion in deficit spending, putting that money to the debt. Debt financing is higher than health transfers to provinces, and that is shameful. Seeing how much money is going to corporate insiders is why we believe this sovereign debt fund is such a terrible idea. The Liberals are awful money managers, much like the NDP in Saskatchewan in the 2000s. They are terrible at managing people's money. They will lose it, and that is why we are so concerned about what this sovereign debt fund would look like.

I would end on the fact that we do not have any confidence in the current government to manage the money without having more conflicts of interest. This is the most ethically problematic government we have had in our country. There were more ethics violations and conflicts of interest in the government in the last 10 years than in all Canadian governments combined. Justin Trudeau was found violating ethics twice when he was prime minister, for the first time ever. Now, this Prime Minister has a blind trust and does not think that he is going to be found in a conflict of interest with all of his dealings. I think he believes that PM stands for “portfolio manager”, not “prime minister”. He is in it for Brookfield and himself, not for the people of Canada. That is why this sovereign wealth fund, or sovereign debt fund, would just be another vehicle for him to make his corporate buddies richer. The Canadian taxpayers would be left paying at the end of the day. It would make Canadians poorer, but the Prime Minister and his buddies on the champagne cocktail circuit would be richer.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Kings—Hants Nova Scotia

Liberal

Kody Blois LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I would put Calgary Centre ahead of Regina—Lewvan in those remarks, but I do respect the way in which the member has brought his issues forward.

I see a more optimistic future for the country, including for Saskatchewan. I look at BHP and the Jansen mine. I look at the work that we are doing to support the Foran mine. On a personal level, I am proud of the work that I did alongside his premier, Scott Moe, in working to support prairie farmers and Saskatchewan farmers of canola and peas. Notwithstanding that I know it is the job of the hon. member to hold the government to account and to highlight what he sees as flaws, would the member at least recognize on the floor of the House of Commons that it was some good work at a federal and provincial level to resolve tariffs and to reduce tariffs that matter for farmers and for the folks in his province?

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, what I would recognize is one thing that the member for Kings—Hants left out. Nutrien, which is headquartered in Saskatoon, has decided to build a port in Washington state instead of Vancouver because there is so much red tape and bureaucracy. They have no faith that the federal government would allow them to build in the ports of Vancouver and Prince Rupert. They had to go to the United States. That is shameful, and it lies at the feet of this government.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, I really did enjoy the member's speech. We have had to spend quite a bit of the day trying to debunk some of what we have heard from the other side.

Would the member like to take an additional minute or two to walk them through the difference between a sovereign wealth fund, where governments invest wealth that is accumulated from surplus, and simply tacking on another $25 billion to the national credit card?

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comment and the opportunity.

I will walk them through it the way my wife and I would walk through budgeting at home. We have three kids, and we want to make sure that money is put away for their education. There is only so much money at the end of the day, when groceries are getting higher and the kids are getting bigger and eating more. If we want to put money away to make sure that they get an education, we have to look at cutting spending in other areas. Then we would have a surplus, extra money to put away for our kids' education.

This is not being done with the sovereign debt fund. The Liberals are piling debt upon debt. If we did that in my household, instead of actually finding the money to put away for my kids' education, I would put it on my credit card, and my kids would be left with a student loan and then a credit card bill at the end. That is what taxpayers are going to be left with.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know if my colleague can comment on the fact that this sovereign wealth fund is in no way sovereign, nor is it in any way independent of government. Its purpose will be nothing more than to advance projects this very government already selected in the economic update.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, that is such a great point from my colleague from the Bloc. I did not get a chance to comment on that in my speech. We have no idea who is going to be the head of this debt fund. We have no idea who is going to be on the board and how those decisions are going to be made. There is such a lack of transparency.

I would say to my hon. colleague that this is a case where the government is picking winners and losers once again and not letting the free market decide. That is where we get in trouble. That is why taxpayers are going to lose money.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed that the Conservatives do not see the larger picture. They make reference to the Canada Infrastructure Bank, which they have been soundly in opposition to for years now, yet Canadians in every region of the country have benefited from this program. Provinces, municipalities and the private sector have actually been engaged. We are talking about billions and billions of dollars, close to $30 billion. The Conservatives say it has not done anything. Duh. If they would just do a simple Google search, they would see the projects that have been approved.

Do the Conservatives support the projects that the Canada Infrastructure Bank has approved?

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, despite the member being super immature and saying “duh”, I would say the Canada Infrastructure Bank was supposed to distribute a $35‑billion capital envelope by 2027-28. However, as of July 2025, the PBO reported that it had disbursed only $14.9 billion, $21.1 billion short of the target. Only a Liberal would cheerlead a failed project that delivered 50% less than it was supposed to. Liberals applaud failure, and that is why they are in the position they are in.

This is going to be another failed project, and something we will point to in the next election. Liberals continue to fail Canadians at each and every step.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Marc-Aurèle-Fortin Québec

Liberal

Carlos Leitão LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, it is my turn to, if I may—

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

An hon. member

No.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

No? Okay, democracy in action, I see.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to take part in today's debate.

In budget 2025, we outlined our plan to build Canada strong. Since then, we have moved fast to build major infrastructure, homes and industries that grow the Canadian economy and create lasting prosperity; empower Canadians with better careers and a more affordable life; and protect our communities, our borders and our way of life. We delivered concrete savings for Canadians while supporting key national priorities and keeping investments focused on results.

We are maintaining a strong fiscal position with the spring economic update 2026, showing that projected deficits are lower than the fiscal horizon and we are on track to meet our fiscal anchors.

Allow me to talk a bit about our fiscal stability and strength, which is something that our colleagues from the other side do not seem to believe. They keep saying that over the last 10 years or so, it has been deficit after deficit and that Canada is something resembling a basket case: everything is broken, nothing works and Canadian cities are war zones.

Think about it. If that is the case, how come Canada still has a AAA credit rating? How come bondholders from many different countries are perfectly willing to buy Canadian debt? In fact, the 10-year yield on a Canadian government bond is now, I believe, about 3.5%. The comparable bond yield in the U.S. treasury is almost one full percentage point higher, so Canadian debt is much better received in financial markets than U.S. debt and that of many other G7 countries. Germany still has a AAA credit rating, but so does Canada.

The current deficit, which turned out to be $11 billion less than what we had estimated back in November, is $67 billion. Yes, that is 2.1% of GDP, hardly an unmanageable level. Again, going back to the United States, which seems to be in the ideal situation, because our colleagues keep referring to business in the United States and saying that we should get out of the way and lower taxes and that business knows what to do, the U.S. deficit is approaching 10% of GDP. That is a real problem. U.S. net debt is 100% of GDP. Canadian federal net debt is 10% of GDP, which is one zero less than in the United States. All this to say, Canada's fiscal position is sustainable and strong.

Yes, there have been deficits over the last 10 years, but let us take a look at what has happened during those years. We have had shock after shock. The economy was doing reasonably well in 2018-19. Economic growth was rebounding strongly and unemployment was very low at the national level and in most provinces, including the province of Quebec, where we had 5% unemployment, which was unheard of. Things were going in the right way and federal deficits were declining rapidly. In some provinces, as was the case in Quebec, there was a budget surplus in 2018. Things were going well. Then what happened? We had a major shock. The pandemic made it so that governments, not just the Liberal government but governments around the world, particularly in the G7, were forced to intervene massively in the economy.

Basically, governments shut down the economy. We did not know how to handle the pandemic at the time, so we shut down the economy and governments intervened with massive assistance. In France, for example, the motto of the government and President Macron at the time was “quoi qu'il en coûte”, that whatever it takes, he needs to support the economy as the government was shut down.

In the case of Canada, for example, we will remember that, when former governor of the Bank of Canada, Mr. Poloz, was questioned about the actions of the central bank in those days, he said we would never think of blaming a fireman for using too much water when fighting a fire. That was what had to be done, and that is what was done.

After that, yes, there was a strong pickup in inflation because the supply chains were interrupted due to a lot of pent-up demand that was released all at the same time around 2022. Then, when we were beginning to get that under control, we had another major shock, which was the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and the interruption in the production and sale of grains, of which Ukraine was a major exporter. Of course, Russian oil and natural gas exports were also interrupted, which led to a food and energy price shock after the pandemic shock. There were more deficits in governments across the G7. We have to remember that Canada is not an island. We exist on a planet with neighbours.

Then, as we were recovering from that, finally getting the economy on a much stronger footing and inflation back under control, we had the tariff war with the United States, the imposition of unjustified and totally counterproductive tariffs on Canada, which caused major diversions and interruptions to international trade. The United States was and still is Canada's largest market and partner. Suddenly, that partner was no longer reliable, which provoked a huge shock to the economy. A lot of private investment was put on hold because many Canadian companies, as well as companies abroad, were uncertain as to what the investment climate was, given the total uncertainty from the United States. That put a lot of investment projects on hold.

Then, as if that was not enough, when we thought we were back to a more even keel, there was the war in the Middle East, and the price of crude oil has now doubled. If we think about it, in two months, from the end of February until now, crude oil prices have gone from about $60 a barrel to $120 a barrel. That has some impact on prices, on inflation, on energy prices and on gasoline prices.

Another big risk is that this may trigger another inflationary spiral. According to the Bank of Canada yesterday, there is no evidence of that yet. It left its policy rate unchanged because, for the moment at least, the risks seem to be well balanced, but of course, the central bank will remain very vigilant on that. Unfortunately, if need be, there might be an increase in the policy rate. That is not on the horizon for the time being, but it is always a possibility.

We live, as the director of the IMF has put it, in a state of profound uncertainty. The fog of uncertainty is, indeed, extremely dense at this time, which has an impact on the economy, on prospects going forward and on government policy.

This is where there is a major difference in the way we view things and the way the Conservatives view things. The Conservatives view the world as if none of this has happened, as if these shocks did not really exist and anything that has happened is all the fault of the Liberals. Of course, it is the Liberals who went on and bombed Iran. It is the Liberals who closed the Strait of Hormuz. It is the Liberals who caused COVID. Hey, why not? The big difference is that we think this is the time when governments must be ready and willing to intervene, ready and willing to support the economy.

The worst thing that could be done at this time, the worst thing that could be done in 2026, in public policy, economic policy and fiscal policy, would be to run an austerity budget, to cut $30 billion to $40 billion out of the Canadian budget at this time. This would be the worst thing that we could do. This would be the perfect recipe to trigger a recession.

This is the time to intervene. The world has changed, and this is the time that action is required. This is the time we are intervening. This is the time that the government is putting forward different policies, different ways to support the economy and to reshape the Canadian economy to make sure we find new partners and new markets for our products to lessen our dependency on the United States.

This is another big difference between our view of the world and the Conservatives' view of the world. The Conservatives' view of the world and of what is going on in the United States is that what is going on in the United States right now is not very nice, but not to worry, because Mr. Trump will not be there forever and things will go back to normal. Well, we say that no, things will not go back to normal. Protectionism in the United States will remain a strong force. If we have learned anything from all this, it is that that partner is not reliable.

That partner will always be our neighbour. It will always be there. We cannot change geography, but we can no longer afford to be totally reliant on that one partner. We have to diversify our markets, diversify our exports and look toward other partners that share our values of having a predictable and rules-based world, which is something the current U.S. administration does not appear to favour very much. Those partners are in Europe, in the European Union. They are in the Asia-Pacific area, particularly in Japan and South Korea. They are also in South America, with Mexico and with things such as Mercosur.

Yes, we are working hard to diversify our markets, form new alliances and form new partnerships with other partners. Just this morning, before coming here, I was attending a seminar with folks from the Arctic Economic Council, which is based in Norway, where we shared many stories on development in the north and on ways to develop the north, particularly on ways to collaborate with our partners, be it Norway, Sweden, Finland or Denmark with Greenland. Those relationships are deepening.

It is the same thing when we go to Europe and we talk to our European partners. They are very much interested in doing business with Canada, with investing in Canada. Canada has what the world needs at this point. We have critical minerals and more traditional minerals that are usually important these days, such as copper and nickel. We also have energy, both renewable and non-renewable energy, and a developed high-tech sector. We are among the global leaders in artificial intelligence.

We have many things that the world wants, things that we will continue to supply the world and things that will lessen our dependency on this one neighbour. I think I made the point that the time to invest and the time to use the Canadian fiscal capacity that we have is now, not five years from now. Five years from now will be too late. That is what we are doing.

My other point, which is another part of the discussion we are having here today, concerns the sovereign wealth fund that we put in place. That is actually the purpose or theme of the Conservative motion.

This will not be a surprise to any member, but we are going to vote against such a motion. Why is that? Many things have been said about this sovereign wealth fund we are creating.

I would now like to address the House in French. I would like to talk about the best example out there with respect to the sovereign wealth fund, which we announced yesterday and which has not yet been created. We have been accused of having all kinds of ulterior motives, but we will begin the consultation and dialogue process with lots of stakeholders from across the Canadian economy to set this fund up properly.

I think that one of the best examples is that of two Quebec-based funds. Anyone listening who is from Quebec surely knows what I am talking about. The first is the generations fund, which the Government of Quebec created nearly two decades ago. The second is the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, the CDPQ.

When the Government of Quebec created the generations fund, it did not have a surplus either. The government was running a deficit. It is not exactly the same thing, but it was created and it is a huge success.

As for the CDPQ, it is important to bear in mind that it currently has a portfolio of approximately $90 billion in shares in Quebec companies. That is the model that we are going to use for the fund that we are setting up here today. That fund will enable us to invest directly in Canadian companies that will participate in developing projects of national interest. The government will be a partner and part owner in these projects. That is how we are going to create wealth and prosperity for all Canadians in the very long term.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Tom Kmiec

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, Housing; the hon. member for Brandon—Souris, The Economy; the hon. member for Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, The Economy.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, there was a lot in the member's speech, but I want to focus on one specific thing he said that was extraordinarily misleading. This is a talking point we have heard before. He claimed that Canada's total debt-to-GDP was 10%, unlike the United States at 110% or whatever.

Does he believe that the entire asset base of the Canada pension plan is free-flowing cash that could be used to repay the debts of Canada, or is it that, with the true meaningful proportion of our debt, which would include subnational debt and does not subtract the assets of the Canada pension plan, the debt-to-GDP is truly over 100%?

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Mr. Speaker, I did point out that was on net federal debt. I was not talking about the total debt, but if we want to include total debt, including the provinces, then we also have to look at the assets. There are many financial assets that the provinces also own, but if we want to look at debt, excluding the CPP, then the total Canadian federal debt is still around 40% of GDP, which is still one of the lowest in the OECD.

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

April 30th, 2026 / 4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC

Mr. Speaker, my colleague was once part of the Government of Quebec. He was a member of the Quebec National Assembly. He was even the finance minister, so he is very familiar with Quebec's financial structure and the relationship with Canada in this respect.

He was also part of a government that, like every government since the 1990s, fought to ensure that Quebec got its fair share of health transfers. The Government of Quebec advocated strenuously for that. On many occasions, by means of motions adopted unanimously in the Quebec National Assembly, he even criticized Ottawa for failing to pay its fair share.

Here are some of the numbers in the economic update. I am not pulling these numbers out of thin air. Health transfers will rise from $54.7 billion in 2025‑26 to $67.5 billion in 2030‑31. Over that same period of time, interest payments on the public debt will climb from $54 billion to $80.9 billion.

The rising cost of simply servicing the public debt is greater by far than growth in spending on something as important as health transfers. I would like my colleague to comment on that.

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4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Mr. Speaker, concerning the Canada health transfer, a formula has been negotiated by the federal and provincial governments, and the amounts are indexed. What I can say is that negotiations and discussions will take place during upcoming federal-provincial meetings, and I am sure that this transfer formula will be updated during negotiations held in the years to come. The formula is not set in stone. It can and should be adapted.

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4:40 p.m.

Nipissing—Timiskaming Ontario

Liberal

Pauline Rochefort LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Secretary of State (Rural Development)

Mr. Speaker, I always find my colleague's comments very informed and knowledgeable, and I do feel that they elevate the quality of the debate in this House, so I thank him for that.

This morning I was at a meeting with the Parliamentary Budget Officer, and she spoke about the spring update. She described Canada's economy as being resilient, and she also spoke about how a number of economic indicators had surpassed what had been forecasted. I just wanted to add those comments in support of those that were made by my colleagues.

Could my colleague expand on his knowledge and experience of the sovereign wealth fund from a Quebec perspective?

Opposition Motion—Sovereign Wealth FundBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Mr. Speaker, yes, the Canadian economy is very resilient. Despite all the shocks that I mentioned, 2025 was actually a year of significant economic growth. We have been able so far to resist that fog of uncertainty.

Going back to the sovereign wealth fund, the purpose of the sovereign wealth fund, as we define it here and as has been done in the case of Quebec, is to allow the state, the government, to be an equity partner in major projects. We want the Canadian public to be able to benefit from investing in those projects. We know that those projects will take 10, 20 or 30 years, but they will be very important for Canadian wealth. If Canadians can own a portion of those projects, that would be a major bonus. That is why we are setting up a sovereign wealth fund.

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4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, that speech covered a lot of area, I must admit. A number of the member's colleagues have gotten up and talked about how the Conservatives should get on board, work with them and just agree with the sovereign wealth fund, because it is good for the country. Actually, that is not how this model is set up. The Westminster model is set up with the official opposition, and normally we would go to committee, but committee has been stacked to the point now where we really cannot get debate without the government's votes stacked in its favour. On top of that, most of our committees are now going in camera, so we cannot even discuss what is being discussed in committees.

Does the member have any opinions on how we can actually collaborate, outside of the committees, which have been hamstrung by the new appointments?

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4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Mr. Speaker, I can only speak for the finance committee, as I am a member. So far, we have been able to talk, we have been able to discuss and we have been able to reach consensus in that committee. If we can be an example to the other committees, so much the better, but things function and can function.