Jean Lapierre

[Transportation, April 15th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to tell the House that at this moment the Minister of Industry is in Prince Rupert announcing the contribution of $30 million from the Government of Canada to ensure we have a great container port in Prince Rupert opening the gateway to the Pacific. I want to pay tribute to the members of the B.C. caucus and also to the Deputy Prime Minister for their efforts in making this happen.

This is a great day for Prince Rupert, a great day for B.C. and a great day for Canada.

[Grain Transportation, April 15th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, we have been very open and transparent on this deal. We said that we would start negotiations and discussions with the FRCC. We said that we were biased toward the farmers and we would start negotiations to see if we could make a deal for the betterment of Canada and for the betterment of the farming community and that of the transportation system. This is how we will deal with it.

[Supply, April 14th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, they certainly will be available. These accounting analyses cost us an arm and a leg. It cost some $200,000 to find out what happened and how the bookkeeping was done at a time when the Prime Minister and his people did not have control over the party.

The auditor was asked to conduct analyses in Quebec and at the national level. All the members of this House can consult these two audit reports, of some 200 pages, on the Liberal Party of Canada website. Everything was looked at. I am telling you, this money did not end up in the party's coffers. I can assure you of this since the auditor looked at every donation, every receipt, everything and it cost us an arm and a leg.

However, we have no idea if anything happened outside this context, in a parallel situation, without our knowledge, but the inquiry will find that out. Do you think that anyone who abused the name of the Liberal Party would tell us? Do you think that anyone who collected dirty money would brag about it? That is why we need the inquiry.

Liberal supporters are just as upset to hear about these things as I am. They are following the work of the inquiry and they are appalled, and rightfully so. All this happened without their knowledge and the name and good reputation of the Liberal Party has been abused. That is why we want this cleaned up. If there are any individuals or groups that abused the party's name, then they should pay.

[Supply, April 14th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I want to tell the member that I did say, in light of the allegations, that perhaps a group abused the situation. It has been said that it was the party, but that is not true. The government implemented programs. The party, its supporters and the executive managed the party. I can say personally, as political lieutenant, that the Quebec wing of the Liberal Party does not manage the government whatsoever. That is not its job. The government manages and the party is separate.

So, are there people who might have abused the situation in the party's name? Did a group abuse the situation? It is possible. That is what Justice Gomery is currently trying to determine. The member says that everyone knew; well, I am sorry but that is not true. In fact, in the media, we were all trying to get the scoop. I wanted the scoop just like everybody else. In reality, they were the only ones who knew the truth. That is why I find this is a bit surprising from the Bloc Québécois. In reality, those who learned the first disturbing facts were not members of the Bloc, but Globe and Mail reporters, including Daniel LeBlanc. He should get credit for his investigative reporting at the very least.

The member read the morning paper and asked the question in the afternoon. That was the member's contribution. These investigative journalists will, I hope, keep doing what they do since that is essentially why this country needs a free press.

What we were all trying to do, none of us successfully, was to learn all the facts. That is why we created a commission of inquiry, since it has exceptional powers that no press agency has. So, a commission of inquiry is able to do the work. We are learning disturbing information every day. We have agreed to this, because we want to learn the truth. We want the report and, once we have it, we will take action; and that is a promise.

[Supply, April 14th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, even if it is hypothetical, I have been searching quite a bit, as members can imagine, and this is what I have been told. On this idea that we had full time people at the party headquarters supposedly working for the party, the people I talked to have not seen them.

The reality is that some people may claim that they were working full time for the Liberal Party, but the legitimate elected executive of the Liberal Party did not see them as full time. Some of them might have been volunteers who would show up once in a while, but not full time staff. Obviously I would agree with the hon. member that if we have somebody there full time and we do not pay them we have to ask ourselves some questions. What we have heard about was potential volunteers who would drop by. The hon. member probably has the same in his riding association or at his party headquarters once in a while.

As for this whole system of people being full time and paid by somebody else, nobody has seen that, nobody I have talked to, and they were the elected officials, members of the conseil de direction. They have not been privy to that type of stuff.

That is why I say let us wait until the end of the Gomery inquiry, because a lot of those people who are supposed to have been full time or whatnot, they have to get in the box and answer the questions and Justice Gomery will decide, but at the present time we have a lot of question marks. I need those answers.

If people have been working full time for the Liberal Party and not getting paid by the Liberal Party, they should be totally reimbursed, I do not mind, but we have to know. Right now there are allegations, but people who were at headquarters never saw them full time.

[Supply, April 14th, 2005]

A member is saying that might be worse for us, but so what. We are not afraid. Whether better or worse, what we want is the truth. There are not a dozen truths, but just one. We will get to the bottom of things precisely because we have a Prime Minister who has the courage of his integrity.

Some opportunists are saying that we would be well served by an election, but this is not true. What we need is to get to the whole truth. Then, if the opposition parties are agreeable, having seen the report, to let the people decide, then we will have no problem with fighting it out in an election.

We will do so knowing the truth, which will be unveiled in the Gomery report. Then, the people will make a decision; that is how it works in a democracy. But this cannot be done while trying to hide half the facts.

It is my conviction that we have to let Justice Gomery do his job. Each one of us has to assess the situation responsibly, with a view to improving the public service. That is what this is all about: we are all paying the price for credibility. We have to be respectful of the public service and the political parties and, if, in one instance, there has been abuse on the part of a small group, we will have to make sure that group is punished.

The public is right to want the culprits to be found. These days, the taxpayers are doing their taxes. As a matter of fact, I got a call from my accountant this morning, and I was not in a good mood either. Naturally, no one likes doing their taxes. But it is worse when we have the feeling that our money was misused.

It is therefore important to get to the bottom of this. If certain individuals have misused the public's money, it is imperative that they be punished. If the Liberal Party inadvertently received any of the money—this is not known right now—then, those involved will have to pay the price. We in the Liberal Party will face the consequences and return any amount we might have inappropriately received, down to the last cent.

It is not true that party officers had a hand in anything. I know them, and I have talked to them. They swear to me that they have not witnessed any misappropriation. These people do not get involved in politics to deal with gangsters. Volunteers do not go door to door, just to get themselves corrupted by small time profiteers. Come on now.

That is why one must not condemn all politicians. Efforts must be made to make the process better. If any action can be taken, I am convinced that, when Justice Gomery's findings are released, the current Prime Minister will be the first to implement any and every recommendation, because he does not compromise when it comes to integrity.

By jumping to conclusions, we are not doing justice to this process, nor are we being fair and equitable, nor are we respecting the mandate that was given to Justice Gomery. We have to wait and hear the other witnesses. We said the hearings would last until the end of May. These people must have something to say.

Our commitment is definite. I made it during the last campaign and I have repeated it since. Every penny obtained directly or indirectly by the Liberal Party through improper activities will be promptly reimbursed. The only thing I need to know is what Justice Gomery's conclusions are and the exact amount. Whatever amount he arrives at, we will accept it and we will reimburse the money immediately. We know that it is not easy for political parties, but we want to make sure that integrity is our top priority. It is the only way we can ask for the support of our fellow Canadians.

We do not need a trust account. What we need is a report from Justice Gomery. The day we get it, the money will be promptly reimbursed. You have my word on it, and the word of the Prime Minister and of all the members of the Liberal Party of Canada. Hundreds of thousands of members of the party in Quebec do not want to see their reputation besmirched because some scoundrels have abused their trust.

[Supply, April 14th, 2005]

The Conservatives should not be lecturing us. There is a young fellow in the back there who is getting all riled up. Having been around here a long time, I can tell you that the Conservative Party, when on this side, was shown the door because of a problematic situation. It, however, did not have the courage to set up a commission to investigate itself.

So the Conservative Party should not be lecturing us. What they ought to be doing instead is admiring the courage of this Prime Minister. We are not embarrassed; our books are open. We have let the RCMP come and inspect the party's books. We have mandated a special counsel to turn up all the money that may have been given out in an inappropriate manner.

I will not accept any partisan attempts to cast doubt on the integrity of members of Parliament, ministers, or party supporters. If democracy is working, that is because of the faith some men and women have in the process. That is the case elsewhere as well as here. These people want to be involved in parties that are upright and honest. This is exactly why we want to see the Gomery inquiry get to the bottom of all this. These honest folk who donate time and energy as volunteers do not deserve to be tainted by the actions of a few scoundrels.

When I see these little bullies threatening an election, I realize that this is not because they want the truth. It is more or less like sentencing an accused person half way through the trial.

If we are concerned about the integrity of this place, and of our profession, we must make an effort to see that we get to the bottom of this and that we go through the entire process. We cannot settle for one-quarter or one-half of the evidence, we must have it all. We cannot pass judgment without all the information.

[Supply, April 14th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate and I will say from the outset that I will be voting against this motion because it does not consider the reality or the context of the matter we are discussing today.

Look at the previous speaker who just a few minutes ago made serious allegations and said that the Liberal Party of Canada had diverted $2.2 million. Nothing could be further from the truth and the hon. member would never dare say such a thing outside the House. Neither he nor any of his colleagues know and no one has proven that the Liberal Party of Canada received such large sums of money.

The reality is that we are in the middle of uncovering various aspects of this case. Every day at the Gomery inquiry, one testimony can be contradicted by another. That is why we absolutely want to hear all the testimony and evidence in order to get to the truth.

Could an individual have made personal gains? That would not be the responsibility of the Liberal Party of Canada. Could some people have abused the name and trust of the Liberal Party of Canada and its thousands of supporters? Should they not be held responsible for their improprieties? Obviously, the answer is yes.

When I hear the Bloc MPs telling us what to do, I remind them that we can hear the evidence and the allegations and, once the process is over, we will leave it up to Justice Gomery. We want him to tell us what was not right. If the Liberal Party did profit inappropriately from sums of money, every cent of it will be returned.

The Liberal Party of Canada has no need to set up a trust fund. We are not a transitional party, like the Bloc. Our party has been solvent for the 138 years it has existed. In all this time, we have paid our debts year in and year out, and so we are no fly by night outfit as is being contended.

This is why Canadians may rest assured that, when the report is tabled, any money that has found its way into Liberal coffers illegitimately, will, in the Liberal tradition of integrity, be returned in full, because individuals would have acted inappropriately in the name of the Liberal Party of Canada.

I hear these members saying that attention has to be paid, because we are preparing to run another campaign with tainted money. The fact is that, when the Prime Minister became the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, not only was there no dirty money in the coffers, there were no coffers. Worse yet, in Quebec, the party had nearly $3 million on a line of credit. So, to say that the Liberal Party of Canada got richer is to ignore the fact that for the people on this government's current team this was not the case.

And so, the situation has to be considered directly. Did, for example, the very serious allegations benefit the party? When I hear the allegations and testimony, my perception—I know that I can reach no conclusion, because the commission has not finished its work—my perception today is that some abuse may have been committed by a parallel and isolated clique.

Clearly, right now, there is no question of a widespread phenomenon. No doubt has been cast on any member of this House or of this party.

Let us look at the general context. It is important to have a good memory in that regard. When there was a question mark concerning the management of the sponsorship scandal, who said, “It is over, O-V-E-R”? It was the Prime Minister. Who said, following the release of the Auditor General's report, that something was wrong? It was the Prime Minister. Who decided that Justice Gomery could search all of the government's books and company books, that he could call people to testify, that he could get the bottom of the issues, and that nothing would escape him? Once again, it was the Prime Minister.

Thus, every time I hear members trying to question the Prime Minister's integrity, I find that totally irrelevant, as it is obvious that the man who put the whole process in motion is the man who possesses the total integrity to do a total review. I am not sure that the leader of the Conservative Party would have had the same courage, and maybe not the leader of the Bloc Québécois either. However, those two will never be making any decisions.

No minister's integrity is in doubt. Party personnel, those who were members of executives, have guaranteed me that they never saw anything in the ranks of the Liberal Party of Canada in Quebec that looked even the least like scandal.

There is probably a small group, therefore, that decided to take advantage and misuse the name of the Liberal Party of Canada. It is obvious, though, that this was not a party practice. This is certainly not an acceptable practice. It is not an honest practice either. I feel, therefore, that it is terrible to think that the opposition can just splatter everyone.

This morning I heard a few Bloc members making a list of names, here in this House, thereby abusing their parliamentary privilege because they did not have the courage to repeat them outside. I find that especially disgusting.

We owe it to ourselves here to be quite responsible and not trample reputations without serious evidence. Parliamentary privilege was not invented to say just anything about anyone. We must not take advantage of parliamentary privilege just to smear our adversaries.

It is a very sad story. I heard allegations that people went out “collecting for the cause”. What cause? I have no idea. The cause may be general in nature. The cause may be oneself, one's standard of living, or one's personal enrichment. So now they are trying to load all that on the party's back. Are there not people in every party who, at one time or another, take advantage of the party's confidence? Are there not people who act under false pretences, out of overweening ambition and with illegal intent?

No party is safe from that. The Bloc should know very well. The Parti Québécois is wrestling with the same kind of allegations. Really, none of us is safe from that. Maybe the Bloc is safe to some extent because it will never be in power and not many people will want to invest in it, that is for sure.

In my view, we do not know what the definition is of the cause. We do not know who profited from it. It would therefore be premature. Worse yet, I think that we need the report to know the details. Of course the party will pay back.

So, courage is needed to say, “No, no, there may be people we know; there may be people who were part of previous administrations. Nobody will be sacrificed. We will put in place an open, judicial process”. One has to have courage to do that and it is certainly not political opportunism, with all the revelations we see on a daily basis. It is obvious that the Prime Minister has exceptional courage and an integrity that cannot be questioned.

We went even further. Not only did we say we wanted to set up a commission of inquiry, we also permitted the RCMP to come and audit our books. We want to make sure that those who might have misused those funds will pay the price. If some group has misused funds, its members should be taken away in handcuffs.

We are not trying to protect anybody. What we are trying to do is ensure that integrity is part of the public standards. We all know how cynicism towards politics can affect each one of us. There is not one MP in this House who is not honest. That is what I want to believe and why I am proud to be part of this institution. I am convinced that none of us wants to live with some sort of lingering doubt that gives the impression anybody in politics is a crook. I do not believe that. I did not come here for that and none of us did.

Those who try to use the situation for partisan purposes and to smear everybody with a dirty brush are in fact discrediting the political process and, in so doing, discrediting all our members.

If some group of persons abused those funds, they should be arrested.

[Sponsorship Program, April 7th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to people who are all members of a party now accused of having collected $100,000 illegally, as is alleged, we have nothing to learn from Parti Québécois supporters in the Bloc.

[Sponsorship Program, April 7th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite simple. I was referring to elected positions within the party, and none of the individuals named held an elected position in this party.