House of Commons photo

Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was finance.

Last in Parliament September 2007, as Bloc MP for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot (Québec)

Won his last election, in 2006, with 56% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Supply September 26th, 1996

moved:

That this House condemn the federal government's refusal to reveal the full facts on the tax-free transfer of two billion dollars out of the country and its decision instead to

attack the credibility of the Auditor General while opening the doors to other capital transfers that will deprive the federal government of hundreds of millions, and possibly billions, of dollars every year.

Mr. Speaker, I am still shocked by the arguments used by the Minister of Justice and the Reform representative, which, in my opinion, smacked of demagogy and cynicism, belittled the people of Quebec and denied their democratic rights.

Family Trusts September 24th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, the first thing the Liberal government did when the auditor general denounced it was to try to cloud the issue, never to get to the bottom of it, to the bottom of this scandal.

I put the question to the revenue minister: Why refuse to clarify? Why refuse to tell Canadians what really happened on the evening of December 23, 1991, and what may have happened since then, because you have set a dangerous precedent?

Family Trusts September 24th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, if the previous Conservative government is responsible, then what do the Liberals have to worry about if light is shed on this episode? What do they have to fear? Are they afraid that, if we scratch the blue, we may find some red underneath?

Yesterday, the revenue minister systematically refused to shed light on the family trust scandal. Instead, she attacked the official opposition which, according to her, was perpetuating a myth. When $2 billion leave the country tax free, it is far from being a myth to taxpayers.

How can the revenue minister claim that the report of the Liberal majority of the finance committee shed light on the issue of tax leakages when, in fact, this report served only two purposes: to cover up the issue and to discredit the auditor general, who has become an embarrassment to the government?

Committees Of The House September 23rd, 1996

I hear Liberal members laughing on the other side. Instead of laughing and making silly comments that have no basis-because they did not even read the report of the Liberal majority and our dissenting opinion-they should do their homework, which is to protect the interests of their constituents, not those of millionaires who gravitate around the Prime Minister's office or the Department of Finance, perhaps in the hope of getting, at some point, a job of deputy minister, minister, chair of a committee, assistant or Secretary of State within this government.

Such is the political system of the Liberals. This is what motivates them. It is not to do their homework and to protect the interests of their constituents. If this were the case, they would not give their support; they would not laugh when we discuss one of the worst financial scandals, one that is fuelled by the government.

If the Liberals truly want to protect the interests of their constituents, they should oppose their government and the establishment, because the establishment is doing things that go completely against the interests of Canadians.

Committees Of The House September 23rd, 1996

Mr. Speaker, in its report, the Liberal majority did question the mandate of the auditor general, claiming that he had overstepped his mandate.

In fact, he was well within the scope of his mandate. In the recent past, between 1982 and 1994, there have been no less than seven or eight cases of interpretation regarding taxation, taxation law, the

Canadian Income Tax Act by the auditor general. That is his job too. He does not only look at expenditures and waste. He also looks at how public funds are administered, how the money taxpayers in Quebec and Canada entrust with the federal government is administered. That is his job. He is directly mandated to do that.

This is rather surprising, because, while the auditor general's reputation was being tarnished, in a carefully crafted passage covering about ten pages, with the Liberals using the six experts who testified before the finance committee last summer as their authority-the six experts working for wealthy Canadian families and helping them find ways to dodge tax-these six experts could have been confronted to at least 15 academic tax experts, researchers, real experts with no connection with wealthy Canadian families or interests in firms like Stikeman Elliott, for example, that may in the past have helped put away hundreds of millions of dollars in tax havens or elsewhere thanks to a twisted interpretation of certain provisions of the Income Tax Act.

It is rather strange that these six experts are the ones who help the millionaires, that the Liberals quote them as authorities, while about fifteen others are saying that the government misinterpreted the Income Tax Act, that the public servants did something wrong in 1991 and that, with the agreement of the politicians of the time and the ones currently in office, they did not act in the interest of the true taxpayers. Things are not going well. We are in a system of institutionalized scandals. We are in a system-

Committees Of The House September 23rd, 1996

Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank my dear colleague from Kamouraska-Rivière-du-Loup for his eloquence and his excellent question.

Yes, the government has things to hide. If the government had nothing to hide, when the auditor general published his report on the scandal of the $2 billion transferred out of the country tax-free, if this annual report had been dealt with in the usual way, that is to say, if it had been referred to the public accounts committee, my colleague, the hon. member for Beauport-Montmorency-Orléans, who chairs this committee, would have shed light on the reasons behind this decision with the help of his colleagues from Trois-Rivières and Portneuf. Such is not the case.

As I said earlier, this matter was referred to the finance committee, which was asked to make recommendations on future policy but not on the 1991 case. So the government has things to hide and there are sources close to the Liberal Party of Canada, close to the Prime Minister's office or the finance minister's office who have everything to gain by sidetracking this case.

Let us not forget that this 1991 advance ruling by public servants, which was only made public in March 1996, created a precedent. Since then, anyone could have transferred millions or billions of dollars to other countries around the world. Of course, the government has things to hide.

To answer your second question concerning the loophole, no it was not plugged, it was actually enlarged by the Liberal majority proposals, since the twisted interpretation of what constitutes taxable Canadian property obtained from Revenue Canada and the Department of Finance on the basis of the transfer of these $2 billion to the U.S. was allowed by senior officials, this twisted interpretation has become official government policy, an equally twisted policy serving millionaires and billionaires at the expense of taxpayers in Quebec and Canada.

Committees Of The House September 23rd, 1996

Yes. One tax law for the poor and middle income taxpayers. When your income is modest, you pay: you pay the taxes. You pay them all, not more or less. When you are poor, you are stomped on by this government, but when you are a millionaire or a billionaire, Revenue Canada and the Finance Department open their doors wide to rush through an advance ruling so that you can do as you please.

This is what things have come to. It is not right. But if it is not right, if it is really not right, what is behind it? That is what we are trying to find out. First of all, we are trying to get the Liberal government to put the report of the Standing Committee on Finance where it belongs, in the garbage, and then to shut the gates, rather than throwing them wide open. That is what we are trying to do.

My second point is that the government should finally agree to what we have been asking for since the auditor general's report was published, and that was to refer this issue, which was quite fittingly raised by the auditor general, to the public accounts committee, which is in a position to shed all the necessary light on this financial scandal. Public servants and politicians made this decision at a time when everybody was partying, while everybody thought the government and their public servants were taking care of them, and these people allowed this financial scandal to occur. Let us bring them before the public accounts committee and question them and oblige them to give an account of themselves, and that applies to this government as well.

As I said earlier, if we rub a little bit, underneath the blue we will find a bit of red. Maybe if we scratch some of the blue, we will find some tories behind all this. We may find them at very senior levels in government, perhaps in the entourage of the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance.

Maybe we will find some worthy Liberal millionaires and billionaires gravitating around the government in power, who were able to take advantage of a decision made in 1991, which served as a precedent for opening the flood gates, and which from now on, in any case, with the Liberal majority report, will ensure that everyone can get millions and billions out of the country. Not poor people, not the middle class. They have no money. The government comes down hard on them, but millionaires and billionaires, the friends of the party, those who give $50,000 or more to the Liberal Party, will have no problem. They get the red carpet treatment and can do whatever they like.

They will pay for this mess. They will pay the political price for it. You may be sure the opposition will not let them get away with it. From now on, the official opposition is on the war path, to serve taxpayers in Quebec and Canada as well. We will call on the people to tell this government to behave like a responsible government, not like a government for millionaires and billionaires.

Committees Of The House September 23rd, 1996

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity, through this motion, to discuss one the greatest scandals in the history of federal politics. The saga began last May 7, when the auditor general, Canada's watchdog over public finances, the one who makes federal public servants and politicians accountable, shed light on this scandal.

What happened is that the government allowed a Canadian resident, a billionaire, to transfer to the United States assets of $2 billion that were held in a family trust, without paying any tax on the capital gains realized on these assets.

How was the person able to transfer these $2 billion? After all, Quebec and Canadians taxpayers get sued if they owe one dollar in taxes to Revenue Canada. So, how did this billionaire manage to transfer his billions to the United States? He did two things.

First, he benefited from the complicity of officials from Revenue Canada and the Department of Finance and, second, he obtained an interpretation of a section of the Income Tax Act that normally only applies to non-resident holders of capital in Canada, such as Americans, Europeans and others from other continents. However, in the case of this scandal uncovered by the auditor general and involving the billionaire, a distorted interpretation of the section was made.

On December 12, 1991, Revenue Canada issued a ruling to the effect that this billionaire and trustee did not have the right to transfer billions of dollars tax free. However, on December 23, when everyone had left for the Christmas holiday and had turned their attention to their families, to the festivities and to what was in store for 1992, some officials from the revenue and finance departments in Ottawa somehow found a way to reverse Revenue Canada's ruling, so that the billionaire could transfer his billions to the United States without paying his due to the taxman.

This process is all the more shocking because there is no record of any meeting. There are no minutes from these meetings of December 12 and 23, the outcome of which was that, initially, the billionaire was told no, and later on was told yes, with the blessing of Revenue Canada and the Minister of Finance, and billions were transferred tax free. No paper trail. And that is one of the main discrepancies raised by the auditor general in his last report.

When this scandal came to light, it was quite something to see the Liberal members on the public accounts committee, the committee that receives the auditor general's report for study and that calls witnesses to appear before it to shed more light on the scandals uncovered by the auditor general. It was a sight to behold to see the Liberal members rising solemnly before the cameras and saying that the Liberal government would get to the bottom of this scandal.

The member for Brome-Missisquoi stood before the cameras and said: "This is ridiculous, this took place in 1991, under the Conservatives; we will get to the bottom of this". And he worked himself into quite a lather.

Two days later, he was nowhere to be seen. Two days later, the member for Brome-Missisquoi had disappeared. The story was that he was in his riding attending to urgent matters. He stayed there nearly two weeks. Lip zipped, he hid, because he knew very well that he had perhaps said a bit too much, that perhaps his government, the Liberal government, lacked the political will to get to the bottom of this billionaire scandal.

And indeed, since then, we have found out from the government side that it was perhaps not just the Conservatives who were behind this scandal, that if we scratched the blue a little, there would also be a little red underneath. The attempts to bury this scandal are quite astonishing.

First, the question of this two billion dollar trust was referred to the finance committee for study. I have nothing against the finance committee, and do not wish to run down what it is doing, but it is not that committee's place to cast light on this sort of financial scandal. Moreover, the government has seen fit to give the finance committee a very clear mandate, which was necessary in order to avoid coming up against this type of ambiguity in the Income Tax Act in future.

The mandate was not to bring in experts, or public servants, or even politicians, who were behind that shameful decision in 1991, in order to ask questions and really get to the bottom of the matter. Not in the least. That is the mandate of the public accounts committee. Passing the scandal over to the finance committee for analysis was the first way of clouding the issue.

Second, in early June my Bloc Quebecois colleagues and myself-my colleagues in the opposition-were witnesses to a session in which the auditor general's mandate, reputation, integrity, and competence were smeared during his appearance before the finance committee.

It was shameful, really a cheap shot, as they say, to have the chairman of the finance committee, the Liberal chairman of the finance committee, lecturing the auditor general because he had, on behalf of the people, and on behalf of the Parliament of Canada, brought up one of the worst financial scandals to have occurred in the federal administration for decades. It was embarrassing to see the chairman of the finance committee depriving all of the MPs sitting on that committee of the right to speak, while he alone grilled the auditor general, trying in every way possible to back him into a corner and undermine his credibility. Committee chairmen have resigned for less in the past.

We must understand who the auditor general is. It is important to understand this because if he is being denigrated by the Liberal majority, there must be a reason. He must have found out something. He must have found out about a scandal that might affect the senior levels of this government. The auditor general is the one who, on behalf of Quebecers and Canadians, scrutinizes government accounts, departmental accounts and the attitude of public servants.

It is his task to oblige these senior executives and government ministers to give an account of themselves. That is his duty. If the auditor general finds out that money is being wasted in the departments, as he has pointed out in successive reports since this venerable institution first came into being, and as he will surely do next Thursday when he tables his report in the House, the government is then forced to act to clean up public finances, to restore integrity to the administration of public funds and also to plug tax loopholes as he recommends.

The auditor general is not the government's auditor. He is the auditor of Parliament. He is the people's auditor. He is the one who says when public moneys are well managed, when taxpayers' money, money they worked so hard to earn, is well spent or misspent or the Income Tax Act is properly enforced. Since early June, the Liberals have done nothing but tarnish the reputation of the auditor general. That is a very sad commentary on this government.

This scenario went on throughout June and July, when the finance committee sat and the chairman of the committee unilaterally decided to invite his expert friends. Six of the eight experts invited to the finance committee were people who, without wishing to undermine their credibility, certainly had no credibility in this particular case. And why not? Not only because they were invited by the Liberals, but because these experts are the very people who help wealthy Canadian families find all kinds of tricks to avoid paying their share of income tax, to avoid paying taxes to Revenue Canada.

Backed by government officials and perhaps also by politicians, as we may find out some day, these same experts helped transfer $2 billion to the U.S. without a penny being paid in taxes.

How can you ask these experts who help wealthy Canadian families evade tax, which means that these families do not do their share to put our fiscal house in order, to take a stand against a tax provision that enabled these families to transfer billions of dollars to the U.S.? That makes no sense. They cannot be both judge and judged.

Just last week, the Liberal majority on the finance committee decided to submit their recommendations to the government, so that such "ambiguity" would not be a problem in the future. What did the Liberal majority say in its report? It said three things.

First, listen to this, the same scenario was continuing. They pursued their smear campaign against the auditor general, saying that he was unable to understand these matters, did not understand how the Income Tax applies to billionaires who want to transfer billions of dollars tax free.

They even said he may have been remiss in his duties since the information he gave made it possible to guess which family was behind this scandal, when in fact the information was leaked from Revenue Canada to the Globe and Mail . It was probably a public servant who was also outraged by his colleagues' actions in this matter who revealed the owner of this trust fund to the Globe and Mail . It was not the auditor general. Again, in polite terms, the Liberals presented this fact as though it was the auditor general's doing. It is a disgrace.

They added that the Income Tax Act had to be implemented properly, that it had to be fair and unambiguous. The government's second recommendation was to say: "Now that the scandal has been uncovered, now that we have put our finger on the so-called taxable Canadian property tax provision"-which originally was to apply only to non-residents and which allowed the $2 billion to be transferred out of the country in one of Canada's worst financial scandals-"instead of maintaining this ambiguity, we will open the gates so everyone can use this taxable Canadian property clause to do just about anything, like transfer hundreds of millions or billions of dollars to the U.S. or to other places around the world

without paying a penny in tax on the capital gains from these trust funds".

Just try dong that as the average taxpayer. Just try to get out of paying $10 in federal tax, and they will be after you. Even when we get notices telling us we made a calculation error, when there is a difference of 50 cents between what we calculated as tax owing and what Revenue Canada has calculated, we have to make out a cheque for 50 cents. And now they are letting two billion in assets go to the U.S., which represents hundreds of millions of tax dollars in lost government income. And, by the way, that lost income of hundreds of millions of dollars will be made up for by you and me, and all the taxpayers in Quebec and in Canada, while they are just allowed to slip out of the country with no problem.

The senior officials had an advance ruling; they can do as they please. What is more, the Liberal majority report, which has become the official government position since last week, becomes the law. This is anarchy, this is a free for all for millionaires and billionaires. They can do what they please in future, while the average taxpaying wage earner will be crushed by the Canadian taxation system.

In the last three years, and even during the time of the previous government, so much in the way of sacrifices was called for, the taxpayer has been bled dry, the law has been so tightened up. To take unemployment insurance as an example, workers have become so marginalized, workers and entire families in Quebec have become marginalized they experience a great deal of difficulty in getting back into the work force. Yet the millionaires and billionaires are fine, no more problems for them, they can do as they please.

This government, this Prime Minister, this Minister of Finance, despite their high calling, serve only millionaires and billionaires, not the average taxpayer; it is not true, not with their scheming, not with such an attitude and certainly not with recommendations that, in a matter of hours, managed both to tarnish the reputation of the auditor general, the watchdog for the government's finances, and to open up the gates for millionaires. Mr. Speaker, this is not right.

If we look at the process alone, they did everything they could to obscure matters. They went so far as to tarnish the auditor general's reputation, to question his competence, and then opened the gates by saying that henceforth, this exception, cooked up on December 23, and approved with millionaires and billionaires in mind, will now become the law in Canada.

Job Creation September 23rd, 1996

Mr. Speaker, bureaucratic explanations are not what we want, we want to see the government doing something to create jobs. Here is a golden opportunity to lower premium rates, lower payroll taxes, which do nothing but kill jobs, and create these jobs. Instead of that, I get a bureaucratic answer. In the 1994 budget, the Minister of Finance said himself that lowering unemployment insurance premiums by 7 per cent would result in the creation of 40,000 jobs.

I put the question to the Deputy Prime Minister, to the government, or to whomever is at the helm: When are you going to take action?

Job Creation September 23rd, 1996

Mr. Speaker, in a study published last week, Royal Bank analysts estimated that using part of the surplus of the unemployment insurance fund to lower premium rates would create tens of thousands of jobs in Canada. It will be recalled that the surplus in the unemployment insurance fund will reach five billion dollars this year.

My question is for the Prime Minister. When will the Prime Minister announce a reduction in premium rates in order to create thousands of new jobs, instead of using the money of workers and companies solely to lower his deficit?