Andrew Telegdi

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 19th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I remind the Reform Party that we are debating Bill C-63, an act respecting Canadian citizenship. It is important that we have some relevancy. What the member is talking about and what the Reform—

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 19th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. The bill is Bill C-63, not Bill C-65 or any other bill the hon. member would like to talk about. It is a citizenship bill. Twenty-seven million people in this country are Canadian citizens. They were born here.

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 19th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

We are supposed to be debating an act respecting Canadian citizenship. What the member is talking about has nothing to do with the citizenship bill. He is talking about a piece of legislation that will come to the House in good time, which is the review of the Immigration Act.

This has been happening continually from that side of the House. They have not been talking about the citizenship—

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 16th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member makes the assertion that the parents of somebody who was born in this country are allowed to stay in Canada because their child has been given status as a Canadian citizen. That is not the case. The member should know that.

People who are set for deportation will be deported. The fact that their child has Canadian citizenship status does not stop deportation. The child at that point has the choice of going with his or her parents. So far they have gone with the parents.

Citizenship is granted to people born in this country. That is not something new. It has always been the case. I would hope that the hon. member would recognize that.

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 16th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the member is being somewhat irresponsible when he says there are 16,000 illegals in the country who have been ordered deported and that 80% of them will become citizens. That just does not wash.

How can the member say that about 16,000 people who probably are not in the country? We do not have exit controls, but the fact of the matter is that if people are deported they will not be approved as citizens. For the member to say that is totally wrong. Furthermore, to have him say that Liberal lawyers are getting around the system is slanderous.

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 16th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, this is referring to what the member said. It is a commentary on what he said. It is important to look at history. Some of it is quite humorous.

There is no question that the member would have to agree me that the vast majority of people who come to this country, notwithstanding that some will be a problem and we have to do everything we can to get them out, as refugees and immigrants go on to make a great contribution to the life of our country.

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 16th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I remind my friend opposite that we are dealing with Bill C-63, an act respecting Canadian citizenship.

The member talks about what we are going to be working on as soon as we deal with the issue of the immigration act. If we are interested in getting there quickly I suggest we get this bill into committee.

I think it is important for us when we talk about immigration to keep things in perspective. The vast majority of people who come to this country as immigrants and refugees are law-abiding. That is the history of this country.

We came here as immigrants. There were native people, the French, the United Empire Loyalists and people from all corners of the planet.

It is important that we keep that in mind. Yes, there is some criminality. We have to do what we can to make sure we deal with that as effectively as possible.

The member mentioned some of the terrible wrongs that have been done in this country to different ethnic groups. He mentioned the Ukrainians and the Chinese. There is a long history of that. So many people who have come to this country have found it difficult and at times have been discriminated against. Given that fact we ended up having a country that is very generous and is a beacon of civility in a world too often torn by ethnic unrest and wars.

As a bit of history for the hon. member, if he looks into the history of immigration to this country, at one point to make sure there were enough people in New France, Quebec, to increase the population, the king sent over his daughters, les filles du roi. Those people were not the most outstanding characters who came from France. To make sure these people were married off and that they would help populate New France, the governor—

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 16th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. member that I came over in the same class as her husband in 1957.

The member mentioned that we do not have any legislation before us. We have this legislation before us and we are looking forward to getting it into committee to debate the various points and issues and then to bring it back to the House. Furthermore, once the committee discharges its duty in relationship to this bill, it will be engaging in a revision of the Immigration Act which will result in a bill being brought before the House.

I wanted to put that on the record to let members know that as soon as this bill clears the House a committee is waiting to study it clause by clause and call witnesses.

The member questioned why we were changing the citizenship judges to citizenship commissioners. Basically the courts have expressed a level of discomfort with having citizenship judges being called such since they are not graduates of law. It was therefore deemed that commissioners would be much more appropriate. However, that will be open to debate once it gets to committee.

The member also wanted to know what the functions would be of a citizenship commissioner. The function of a citizenship commissioner, as the government now envisions it, will be to very actively throughout the country promote Canadian citizenship. Clearly one task that should be embraced by all members of the House is to promote Canadian citizenship.

Let us get this bill to committee and we can get working on it clause by clause and then look forward to doing the revision of the Immigration Act.

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 16th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, that is certainly what I meant.

That member said if someone is convicted, not charged but convicted. I think it is important for the Reform Party to understand the difference because it really determines the kind of country we are living in.

There are countries in the world, on the planet, where once one is charged one is deemed to be guilty. Maybe that is what the Reform Party wants, but certainly the government does not want that and most Canadians do not want that. The member referred to the Hondurans who are charged before the courts. I can assure the member that once a person is convicted that is very much taken into account as to whether that person is allowed to stay in this country. I would venture to say that people who are convicted of drug offences will not find themselves granted citizenship.

Furthermore, if the member were to examine that he would notice that in cases where people are applying for citizenship and they are facing a criminal charge or if they are on probation, then they will not get citizenship during that period of time. I think it is important for the member to let Canadians know that yes, we are very much concerned about making sure people who come to this country and acquire their citizenship are going to be contributing to this country, instead of focusing continually on the small percentage of people who cause us problems.

[Citizenship Of Canada Act, February 16th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I point out to the hon. member that when people who are here on refugee status get charged they are presumed to be innocent until they are convicted.

If the member is telling the House that as soon as a charge is laid we should then consider the individual guilty, I wish he would stand in his place and say so because due process applies to everybody in Canada. Mr. Sekora—