Claude Drouin

[Science And Technology, May 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for Science, Research and Development.

Since we are celebrating this year the 30th anniversary of our unique co-operation agreement with Germany in the area of science and technology, could the secretary of state tell us whether the government expects to renew this agreement and ensure that Canada's scientists and high tech industries can continue to have access to Germany's technology markets and sources?

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question. Statistics for 1997-1998 show that Quebec and Manitoba were tied in first place for the number of transfers of young persons to adult courts, with 23. In 1998-1999, Quebec came in second, still with 23 transfers, behind Manitoba, while Ontario only had six.

Some measures will provide alternatives to young persons to facilitate their reintegration into society with as little damage as possible.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

The member for Berthier—Montcalm is talking while I am giving my reply. If he will let me conclude, he will understand.

I was saying that it is these Centres jeunesse that are responsible and they provided some arguments to the effect that there may be problems with Bill C-7.

However, we demonstrated, with statistics to back it up, that there was room for improvement and we are convinced that Bill C-7 will serve as a tool. I am convinced that Quebec will be able to make good use of it and remain a leader in certain areas, while improving the situation in others, since it is in last place or next to last place in certain areas. I think there is room for improvement when it comes to helping our young people.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, this gives me an opportunity to make a correction by saying that I did not meet with the Maison des jeunes but, rather, with the Centres jeunesse de Chaudière—Appalaches—

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, first I want to point out that I made no mention of a nasty opposition. That was certainly not my intention.

Second, I acknowledged in my remarks that the coalition representing all the groups mentioned by the hon. member was opposed.

However, since the bill on young offenders was first tabled, the Liberal caucus has worked to improve it. We have worked with the Minister of Justice and with the various stakeholders to ensure that our young people have the best means possible available to help salvage them in the system.

I have no doubt that Bill C-7 will prove indispensable. We certainly do not think this bill is perfect. Perfection does not exist. It will, however, improve the present system and enable people to salvage young people and make them better contributors to society.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to advise you that I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Mississauga West.

I am pleased to speak to Bill C-7, especially since I have taken a keen interest in the debate surrounding the proposed reform of the youth criminal justice act.

I got involved by reading and listening carefully to the concerns expressed by stakeholders in Quebec and by meeting with concerned stakeholders at the Centre jeunesse Chaudière—Appalaches last week. I am pleased to have been able to gather additional information on the substance of Bill C-7. I have thus been able to rectify some of the ideas which have been circulating regarding the scope of Bill C-7.

I am now in a position to say that the bill, which builds on the strengths of the current act which Quebec has taken advantage of, has allowed the province not only to follow through with the elements of its approach which have proved successful, but also to improve on its approach.

To illustrate what I am saying I will review some of the fundamental principles underlying Bill C-7. In parallel I will highlight some of the opposition's criticisms.

According to the Quebec coalition, this reform is not necessary. It suggests that the problem, if there is a problem, is the result of the Young Offenders Act not being properly implemented by some jurisdictions. Data from studies carried out over the last few years and extensive consultations with the provinces, territories and various specialists in the area have identified several problems in the way the current youth justice system is working.

It bears reminding, among others, that Canada has the highest rate of young offenders in custody, the highest one in the industrialized countries, higher yet than in the U.S. It is also four times higher than that for adults. Average sentence length for minor offences is longer for young offenders than for adults.

In spite of an approach which, in many regards, is consistent with the goals of Bill C-7, Quebec is not an exception to the rule with regard to the identified problems. Quebec has the second highest rate of custody for young persons found guilty of a first minor offence. The average custody sentence in Quebec is longer than the national average and the second longest in Canada. In fact, what is surprising is that the rate of participation in alternative measures is higher in western Canada than it is in Quebec.

To solve these problems, Bill C-7 focuses on diversion measures that still aim at making young persons more responsible. Bill C-7 is based on experiments carried out in various European countries as well as in Australia and New Zealand, that show that informal measures focusing on responsibility for one's own actions and restitution have more impact than formal court proceedings not only on the level of responsibility the young person is ready to acknowledge but also on the recidivism rate, which is almost nil.

The federal government's main goal in its reform is to reduce the use of the formal system in order to fight youth crime. We are providing various options and better tools to the workers on the front line, so that minor offences can be dealt with responsibly outside the court system.

What does that mean in real terms? The opposition argues that Quebec will no longer be able to take the appropriate measure at the appropriate time to fight early signs of delinquent behaviour. The opposition uses examples of young people committing multiple shoplifting offences saying that the only possible intervention by a police officer would be a warning, thereby ridiculing police intervention and leading people to believe that Bill C-7 does not allow for effective intervention.

The most troubling thing about these remarks is that they are based on the assumption that custody can be used to rehabilitate young offenders and to turn them into responsible persons. This assumption goes against what can be learned from criminology research and what has been seen in other countries that have chosen less repressive measures to make their young offenders more responsible.

The bill favours diversion measures. These may vary, but they must be aimed at turning the young offender into a responsible person, at repairing any harm done and at rehabilitating him or her, which means changing his or her criminal behaviour as soon as it emerges.

In the case of shoplifting, to use the same example as the opposition, a police officer can exercise discretion under Bill C-7, which is not the case under the current legislation.

The police officer must first decide whether or not to make an arrest. If the decision is made to arrest the young offender, the police officer must then determine if the young offender qualifies for diversion measures or if he or she must be charged.

If charges are brought, the police officer must choose between release and temporary custody. If he or she chooses release, he or she will have to determine the conditions of such release.

If the police officer decides to make the young person take responsibility through a diversion program, he can choose, based on the circumstances of the offence and on the young offender, between a warning, a caution, a referral to a specialized educational program—for example to learn behavioural skills—or a referral to a community organization that can help the young person not to commit other offences. What is meant here is community work and other measures.

In a case of shoplifting, the police officer would probably give a warning or administer a caution after seeing that the goods were given back, to ensure that the young offender has taken responsibility and has made reparation. The warning or caution is given verbally and in writing, through a letter and a follow-up with the parents, to inform them of the young person's actions, of the measures taken and of the possible consequences should he commit other offences. This is the rehabilitation component.

Experience shows that the majority of young offenders who are subjected to this follow up do not commit other offences. Most parents take measures with regard to their young offender, thus increasing the chances for complete rehabilitation.

Such measures will be compiled in an automated retrieval system that will be accessible by other police forces through an agreement on the exchange of information. A $9 million budget was allocated to the various jurisdictions to put in place or to improve the recording and management systems of automated files.

If a young person commits other offences, the police officer can lay charges or resort to extrajudicial measures. These are more formal extrajudicial measures, ones that translate into structured programs customized to correct the delinquent behaviour, hold the young person accountable, and have him or her make amends for the harm caused.

If the police officer opts for the laying of charges, it is then up to the crown attorney to take the case before the court or to have a program of extrajudicial sanctions drawn up. Once again, there will be follow up with the parents.

Another presumption that is worrisome to opponents of Bill C-7 is the suggestion that making a young person accountable for his or her actions must of necessity involve diversion, a judge and cautions. Such a presumption ignores the powers of front line interveners and the effectiveness of their interventions, and underestimates the community's capacity to correct criminal behaviours as soon as they first manifest themselves.

Bill C-7 gives precedence to accountability outside of the formal system for less serious offences, because this is more effective and less costly, particularly since it allows intervention immediately after the offence has been committed and makes it possible for victims and communities to be involved in the process of healing and of social learning.

Obviously, such an approach requires the introduction of new tools and new resources. One might well believe that, with the $221 million offered to Quebec over five years under the youth justice services funding program, including over $25 million for implementation of the youth criminal justice act, Quebec would be in a position to establish customized programs to hold young offenders accountable, provide them with effective rehabilitation, and successfully reintegrate them into society.

[Maple Syrup Industry, March 22nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, as you already know, Canada is the world's largest producer of maple syrup, with 80% of its production.

The maple syrup industry in Canada is no holdover from the past. It is a veritable industry comprising over 12,000 producers and having an economic activity of some $150 million annually.

Some 80% of our maple syrup is exported, and we have customers in 25 countries around the world.

I am very proud to represent the region of Beauce, a major player in this area. Indeed, the region, with its 8 million taps produces over 20 million pounds of maple syrup, about 25% of Quebec's entire production of maple syrup.

Maple syrup proudly represents our country the world over.

I take this opportunity to invite the public to the Festival beauceron de l'érable, the maple festival now being held in Saint-Georges de Beauce until March 25. This event heralds the opening of the sugaring season.

Come give your sweet tooth a treat in Beauce.

[Supply, March 15th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, if I understand the question, of course we have to defend our position. However, we can also launch challenges, to show our determination and to ensure that we are treated fairly and that NAFTA and the WTO agreement are complied with.

[Supply, March 15th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I can assure my colleague from the opposition that I was indeed aware of the fact that the Atlantic provinces were excluded from the agreement. Four provinces were party to this agreement.

The Government of Canada represents all provinces, and I am sure our Minister for International Trade and our government will continue in that direction.

[Supply, March 15th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to add my voice to those of other members who have already spoken to this most crucial issue. As the Minister for International Trade said, the softwood lumber industry is a basic element of the Canadian economy and we must protect it.

The stakes are extremely high. The softwood lumber industry creates thousands of jobs for Canadians. It is the lifeblood of hundreds of communities across Canada. It is one of the main export sectors in Canada and it plays a crucial role in our trade balance. I would also add that in Beauce, my own region, hundreds of jobs depend on this industry which affects a thousand individuals if you include families.

Our softwood lumber exports to the United States represent nearly $11 billion. About a third of the lumber Americans need to build and improve their homes and businesses comes from Canada. There is absolutely no way the United States can meet their needs by themselves, but they still insist that access to their market by Canadians be limited.

What is the cost of this protectionism? American homebuilders suggest that the cost for the consumer is $1,000 for every new house built in the United States. This is a very expensive protection for the American lumber industry.

The softwood lumber trade has been regulated for 5 years by the softwood lumber agreement. This agreement provides for quotas of softwood lumber that can be exported duty free to the United States from British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec. It has bought us five years of relative peace in a long, endless, and costly conflict. The industry endorsed the agreement almost unanimously, but now, it is almost unanimous in its determination to fight for the free access to this crucial market.

The softwood agreement will expire on March 31. If no other agreement is reached, two things will happen almost for sure. First, we will come back to the WTO and NAFTA rules, both of which give us access to the U.S. market. Just as important is the fact that WTO and NAFTA provide us with a rules based system and dispute settlement mechanisms that we will not hesitate to use.

Second, for all intents and purposes, in the U.S., this industry which relies on government assistance will try to have countervailing duties imposed on Canadian softwood lumber exports. From what we hear, the American industry wants to take antidumping measures against Canadian producers.

Such a protectionist approach is unacceptable and, as my hon. colleagues pointed out, it is contrary to our trade agreements. These agreements prohibit the United States from imposing quantitative restrictions or customs duties on Canadian softwood lumber exports unless and until they can demonstrate, through fair enforcement of trade rules, that these exports are made possible because of unfair trade.

The United States must prove that we are subsidizing our industry or that we are dumping softwood lumber on their market; they must prove not only that we subsidize our industry and dump lumber, but that we do so in a way that is prejudicial to American producers.

They have never been able to prove their allegations. In the last 20 years, there have been three investigations on potential countervailing duties and none of them has proven their allegations. That does not deter them.

If the United States make new claims, we will defend our positions, you can be sure of that. The Government of Canada will ensure that our rights under WTO and NAFTA are upheld.

How will we go about it? As my colleagues have mentioned, our government has been proactive. Twice, we have used the WTO dispute settlement process against the United States to help clarify the rules governing new trade measures.

The first case is a challenge of the declared intent of the U.S. to consider our export controls on raw logs as subsidies giving rise to countervailing duties. It is obviously an important issue at a time where we are faced with the possibility of new trade action by the Americans.

We also had consultations at the WTO on a new U.S. legislative provision that is both unacceptable and, in our opinion, contrary to our trade agreements. It relates to countervailing and anti-dumping duties that are not implemented in the appropriate manner. Under this provision, the U.S. government would keep the customs duties already paid, even though the countervailing or anti-dumping duties have been successfully challenged and repealed. This is totally unacceptable.

Finally, as our minister said after his meeting in Washington with the U.S. trade representative, Mr. Zoellick, we are trying to get some clarification about what is called the Byrd amendment. It would allow U.S. customs to distribute the product of countervailing and anti-dumping duties to the very companies in the U.S. that petitioned for those duties. This seems totally unacceptable. Not only is it contrary to United States obligations as a WTO member, but we believe that that cannot be applied to Canada under NAFTA.

The United States should not be allowed to pick which ones of their trade obligations they are willing to respect. The United States have not only signed the trade agreements, they even led the movement for their negotiation. Therefore the time has come for the United States to abide by them.

The Government of Canada is firmly committed to having the rights of Canada under those international trade agreements respected and upheld. We deeply believe in a rules based trade system. That is why we took advantage of the mechanisms provided in those agreements to make sure that U.S. protectionist measures do not prevail.

We respect our obligations and we expect the United States to do the same.

If we are faced with an inquiry about the potential imposition of countervailing duties, we will fight it and we will win. We are ready. The provinces are ready. The industry in Canada is ready, probably more than ever. We have allies more powerful than ever before, in the forms of groups of consumers and retailers and of associations of home builders in the United States.

We continue to ask insistently that impartial envoys from Canada and the United States be appointed to explore the issue from all sides, to consult with all the stakeholders and to bring forward non-binding proposals to resolve this longstanding dispute. We will examine every possible option for the resolution of this dispute so that our softwood lumber industry can resume the activity it does so well.

Therefore I am pleased to indicate my support for this motion and our firm intention of pursuing Canada's goal of free trade in softwood lumber across Canada and particularly in Quebec and in my riding of Beauce.