Grant McNally

[Canada Foundation For Sustainable Development Technology Act, March 23rd, 2001]

I am glad to hear the minister say he will. He is making the commitment in the House today to appoint qualified individuals to the board. I thank him for that. We hope that perhaps he can talk to the rest of his cabinet colleagues and impress upon them the importance of doing so within their areas and departments.

I will talk a bit about an environmental issue in my own community. There are several. One has to do with protecting a very sensitive area known as the Cod Island wetlands. It is in the Lower Fraser Valley in the area of Pitt Meadows and Pitt Poulder. There are individuals who are working hard to find a community solution to the situation. They are trying to bring people together to protect one of the most sensitive wetlands, and perhaps the only remaining sensitive wetland in the lower mainland in British Columbia, from being developed.

There is the potential for that. An individual who owns the land wants to turn it into cranberry bogs. It is his land and he has the right to do so. However there is also concern that it be preserved, and there are individual working on that. I encourage the government to get involved as well, and to look at how it might help out. I have written letters to the Minister of the Environment and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans on the issue and I will continue to encourage them to find community based solutions to protect that very sensitive area.

The Alliance is concerned about the environment. We are in many regards the party that wants to protect the environment. Members from other parties want to protect it as well, and we commend them for their efforts. We need to work together to find commonalities wherever we can in regard to the bill. There is agreement on some motions. We do not particularly support Motions Nos. 1 and 6, as I outlined. However we do support Motion No. 10. We will soon be debating other parts of the bill as well.

It is an important issue to talk about in the House. Many have said it will be the most important issue within the next generation. We need to protect our environment. It will affect the future health and well-being of all citizens no matter which area, province or community they come from. We must be concerned. We must turn our concern into workable action so that we do the right thing together in a way that is not partisan.

We will have disagreements on how to implement aspects of legislation. However we must work together on things we agree on and have a clear debate about the things we disagree on. We must do this in an open fashion, as has been done in the House today, and allow individuals to bring forward ideas and suggestions for amending legislation.

Our critic has been very involved for a long time with this issue and has ideas and suggestions on how to improve the bill. I am sure he has brought up his ideas at committee, and he will be bringing them up in the House. We need to work together to make this a workable piece of legislation.

[Canada Foundation For Sustainable Development Technology Act, March 23rd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I will begin by saying that the Alliance will not be supporting Motions Nos. 1 and 6 put forward by the Bloc Quebecois for the reasons outlined by my colleagues.

It is worth repeating some of the difficulties that Motion No. 6 would bring to the legislation. It would bring provincial ministers of the environment into all the discussions regarding the criteria of eligibility and, in doing so, would introduce some different criteria of acceptance into every province. The bill needs uniformity and this would be a hindrance to that particular aspect of this important legislation.

If we were to pass Motion No. 6, or Motion No. 1 which is similar, I think it would create more problems than the bill attempts to solve. For that reason, we will not be supporting Motions Nos. 1 and 6.

Motion No. 10, brought forward by my colleagues from the Conservative Party, is an attempt to curtail some of the vagueness of the bill by introducing some eligibility criteria. We are supportive of that idea.

The purpose of the bill has been laid out and we are supportive of the intent of the bill. We have some questions and ideas for improvement in terms of how to implement the bill. We have some issues with some aspects of the bill that I believe are worth noting.

I want to state that the Alliance is committed to protecting and preserving our natural environment and endangered species. That is very clear within our policy and perspective. We want to work together with members from all sides of the House and the government. We commend them for moving forward on good initiatives that have to do with protecting our environment and enhancing sustainable development. Those are good, broad and general notions to pursue which we support.

My colleague from North Vancouver pointed out some rather glaring difficulties with the whole appointment process in terms of governor in council appointments, which is an aspect of this bill. He highlighted, from his own experience, some wasteful instances of taxpayer dollars being spent in ways that perhaps could have been allocated to priority areas, such as health care, education, reducing taxes and those kinds of very important priorities.

I want to talk a little bit about the appointment process that would be created by the bill. I believe the chairperson along with a minority number of directors and members are appointed by the governor in council, who would then appoint the remaining members to complete the 15 person board of directors. We do have some concerns that the foundation could become a possible patronage arm of the government.

We know that the government must appoint many people in many different arms of the government, related agencies and boards. We know that is a reality, but we would like to see a process that would have the most competent and trained individuals for positions like that.

We have seen examples in other areas, not particularly this one area that has been brought forward, where appointments have been somewhat questionable. We always raise the concern when the issue is brought up within any legislation that there needs to be a more transparent and accountable process in place for appointing individuals to government boards or to arms of the government.

One example, of which I am very well aware and which happened not too long ago, was the appointment of a former colleague of ours here in the House, Mr. Sekora, who was representing Coquitlam.

He was appointed as a citizenship judge. He made some rather outlandish remarks in the House which are documented in Hansard . We are all well aware of them. It showed insensitivity on the government's part to appoint an individual who demonstrated a lack of sensitivity on issues to do with immigration.

Even after the election he made comments that were rather derogatory to immigrants in his own community. He was then appointed a citizenship judge. His record seems quite contrary to the kind of individual one would appoint to a responsible position.

The actions and past experience of that individual give us reason for concern. We also see, through another piece of legislation, governor in council appointments where individuals appointed to boards are perhaps not the best selection in some cases. That raises concerns for us, and obviously we have the same concern with this bill. We encourage the government to, and hope it will, select individuals who are the best for the job in this area.

[Dewdney—Alouette, March 23rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the riding of Dewdney—Alouette has once again lived up to its reputation as the hotbed of high school basketball in British Columbia.

The Pitt Meadows Marauders won the inaugural grade eight boys provincial championship earlier this month. I wish to express congratulations to coaches Steve Anderson and Rich Goulet and their hardworking team.

The Heritage Park Highlanders also continued their dominance as they successfully defended their title as senior girls AAA basketball champions. Special congratulations go to coach Bruce Langford, tournament MVP Kim Smith, defensive MVP Sarah Stroh and the first team all star Katja Fuess. Kudos to the entire team that is already favoured at next year's championships.

Honourable mention also goes to the Maple Ridge Ramblers that picked up fourth place in the tournament and to the Thomas Haney Thunder that finished eleventh.

I congratulate all players, coaches and parents that made these accomplishments possible. Their hard work and determination have paid off once again.

[Rights Of The Unborn, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I too commend my colleague from Yorkton—Melville for bringing this motion forward.

It has of course been a topic where there are deep feelings on both sides of the abortion issue. The motion specifically talks about the government bringing in legislation defining a human being as a human fetus or embryo from the moment of conception, whether in the womb of the mother or not, and whether conceived naturally or otherwise, and making any and all consequential amendments required.

I want to state my unequivocal and unqualified support for the motion and be very clear about that.

I want to take a minute or two to rebut the comments made by my colleague from the Bloc. The member for Scarborough Southwest spent some time on that as well so I will not go into great detail, but he made a good point when he said that her argument was logically inconsistent in regard to the separation issue being dealt with and that we should just leave it alone. She claimed that because the abortion issue, in her mind, has been settled and closed, we should not go there. That is logically inconsistent.

She also claimed that the opposition to this particular idea of redefining what is a human or the definition of a person is, in and of itself, one that is religious in its nature. I would disagree with that. I would say that it is a moral issue and one where individuals, who are both religious and non-religious but who are what we might call, absolutists who believe in right and wrong, would find broad agreement. Those who would say that abortion is wrong would be absolutists and I would include myself as an absolutist. I therefore reject the premise of her argument that it is simply a religious argument for those who speak against abortion.

A very big dilemma in this whole issue of abortion has to do with the definition of a human being. My colleagues have talked about the legal definition. It is in statute right now that a human is a human when the person leaves the birth canal. That creates a dilemma for many of us specifically because of the technology and advancement within our world in terms of medical sciences.

We know that in one room we may have a doctor performing microsurgery with the latest technology to save the life of what some may call a fetus, an unborn child who might be six months in its development, while in the very next room we might have somebody else in a very similar situation having the termination of a pregnancy or an abortion. That is a big dilemma. How do we explain that? How do we deal with that?

On the one hand, we are seeing medical dollars allocated to saving the life of an unborn child through microsurgery and, on the other hand, in the next room a child is being aborted. That has been a great dilemma for people who are both pro-choice and pro-life.

We could have agreement from many pro-choice individuals and pro-life people, people who would identify themselves as such, that in terms of partial birth abortions, or late term abortions, that we should look at redefining the definition of a human. We must scale it back, or as my colleague says, scale it forward.

The debate is, when does life begin. I believe life begins at conception. Many members in this place believe that. That is the fundamental question, the philosophical debate that we have around the issue. It does get very emotional.

We would do well to try and strip away as best we can those emotional catch phrases, in many ways similar to the kinds of partisan debates that can take place in the House on many different issues. We must remove that aspect in the debate and have reasoned debate taking into account the technologies that are available and that our understanding has changed from when this practice of abortion became commonplace in the sixties and throughout the seventies. We must re-examine the question and it is only fair that we re-examine it.

Yes, it has been dealt with previously, but does that mean that because we have made a decision on something, we cannot go back and open it up?

My Bloc colleague also said she was speaking for her party. I think that was a mistake because I know she has colleagues that would identify themselves as pro-life. This being private members' business, it is good for members to state their positions. We have individuals in our caucus that are both pro-life and pro-choice, and I think that would be the case for all parties. We should talk about the issue and open up the debate.

As a man, individuals have asked me why I feel I have the right to even speak on this particular issue. As a man, I am also the husband of a wife. There are a lot of women in my life but just one wife whom I love dearly. I am the father of three beautiful daughters, the uncle of eight beautiful nieces and the son to a mother. I have many other close friends who are women.

I have two very close friends who had abortions earlier on in their lives. They have reflected many years later on that experience. One was put in the position of being with an abusive husband who forced her to go through with this particular act, and she did. The second time she became pregnant, she was being forced to do again. However, she left her husband and gave birth to a son. There are countless stories of individuals who have been put in that situation.

Another friend had an abortion at a very young age. She told me she wished she had received counsel on this particular issue before embarking on this choice.

There are other solutions and other things that we can look at. Some say it is wrong to force a woman to remain pregnant. There is another possible solution for those women who find themselves in an unfortunate circumstance, and that is adoption. Abortion is one possible solution but so is adoption. I have many friends who are adopted.

We are losing generations of children every year. There are 100,000 children a year who will not walk with us in this world, who will not be able to contribute to our society and who will not be the doctors, the lawyers, the scholars, the workers and the people across the strata of our society. That is an issue we need to examine.

When we make a decision to end a child's life, are we making a decision to end the life of someone who might have a great and profound impact on our society? Each and every life is important. Each and every life will have a profound impact the child's family of course but also within a greater sphere as well in their lives.

I wrap up my comments by saying that I support the motion. We need to approach this topic in a reasoned and rational way. We need to bring forward the knowledge that we received from the great science and technology advancements in our society. We need to work together, even individuals who disagree on this particular topic. We should look for some common ground. We can start by redefining life at an earlier stage. I think pro-life and pro-choice people would have a broad consensus on the issue of partial birth abortion.

It is a worthwhile motion. It is one that is emotional but it is worthwhile because it is the definition of life, which is the most important question in all of our entire lives.

[Judges Act, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The House leader asked for unanimous consent that the question be put. If you check the record you will find that consent was not given for the motion to be put because the clock being 5.30, debate has ended.

[Judges Act, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I heard the question earlier that the hon. member had asked. He knows that it is a provincial matter. I have individuals coming into my constituency office asking me the exact same questions. This brings to mind the same dilemma members of parliament are faced with in terms of getting information from the government.

[Judges Act, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I did outline in my opening that I wanted to talk about the issue. Obviously it is related to the bill before us. I talked about the part of the bill having to do with the Judicial Compensation and Benefits Commission that allows the government the opportunity to provide patronage appointments.

I talked briefly about judicial activism. I will wrap up my comments on that part of my speech in relation to judges and the justice system. When the bill goes forward it will go to the justice committee where it will take up a fair bit of time. We must question what other issues might be brought forward by the government in relation to justice issues.

I will talk about a few issues that affect communities in my riding. Mike Potter, head of the chamber of commerce in Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows, is bringing forth some proactive solutions to combating crime, particularly among businesses in the community that have been hit hard. That is a noble cause. He is working hard with Helen Secco, also of the chamber of commerce, to develop a strategy in which the community can come together to stop crime from happening.

Vandalism is causing a great deal of harm to local businesses in Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge, and that is of great concern to business owners who are the backbone of the local economy.

Some of their initiatives are to be applauded. They recently had a forum in Maple Ridge regarding the issue. Those kinds of crimes are on the increase, which is unfortunate. That is why the community is looking for proactive solutions.

There is also a crime prevention priority session coming up in Mission. People in that community are getting together to try to find a way to solve issues of crime in the community. That also is to be applauded. Those citizens are coming forward to work together to address important issues of safety in their community. That is a good thing and it should be applauded.

I do know that in debate on the bill we have covered in great detail the compensation of judges. I started my speech on that topic. As my colleagues noted, we have concerns that the government is not putting the same priority forward with individuals of our front line law enforcement communities.

I will now conclude. I know the government House leader is hanging on my every word as time draws short in the day. This is, of course, an important issue. I will conclude by focusing on the people of Dewdney—Alouette because they are, of course, the people who sent me here. I applaud their proactive efforts to provide safety in their community. I will wrap up my comments by wishing them well in all their endeavours and saying that I look forward to working with them on those important issues.

[Judges Act, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to Bill C-12. It is a bill that is somewhat technical in nature having to do with compensation for judges.

Many of my colleagues have explained the remuneration part of the bill in terms of the issues we have with the bill. I will focus a bit on one part of that and then I will talk a bit about judicial activism. I will make reference to a creation of the bill, having to do with the ability of the government to appoint individuals, thereby having another outlet for some possible patronage jobs being created. I will also talk about some local issues happening in Dewdney—Alouette.

The bill deals with about 1,000 individuals, those who are federally appointed judges. As my colleagues from the Alliance have pointed out, there have been several increases over the last number of years for individuals serving in this important position.

At the same time there have not been the same kinds of significant increases for those law enforcement agents and guards in our prison system that are on the frontlines providing good service, protection and security for our citizens. My colleague from Wild Rose touched on this issue and my colleague from Crowfoot just asked a very good question about it. It is something that needs to be raised.

We realize that the government does not have an endless supply of dollars. It is actually taxpayer dollars held in trust by the government. The government is called upon to use those hard earned tax dollars in a wise way. We have pointed out over the last number of months and years in this place some areas where the government could do better in managing taxpayer dollars.

We have explored lots of opportunities for the government to look at its expenditures to see where it could save some dollars in wasteful spending, such as the areas having to do with the now infamous billion dollar boondoggle. We have not heard that word for a while, so I thought I would throw it in. There is also the file on Shawinigan, Shawinigate.

We have explored those areas and approximately $13 billion is allocated from the government to grants and contributions across government departments. We have become very aware, because of what happened in human resources development, of how the money is allocated. Some work needs to be done in all government departments in terms of how they are using their resources and their dollars.

If what is happening in the area of human resources is indicative of how the government is managing the hard earned tax dollars of our citizens in all departments, there is cause for concern. There is a possible pool of taxpayer dollars held in trust by the government that could be used for law enforcement, providing the resources the RCMP needs to do the job of fighting organized crime on the frontlines.

Police officers from across the country came to speak to us this week. Officers who have been working on the frontlines in our communities told us what has been happening and how they feel limited in what they can do because of their lack of resources.

It is incumbent upon us to provide law enforcement officers with the proper compensation and the proper resources to be able to do their job properly. As has been raised by other colleagues as well, we know that those individuals the government and the police forces are fighting have an unlimited pool of capital.

Our forces must be equipped to combat those kinds of activities, which cause so much harm to our communities and to the safety of our country. That is something we need to touch on here in the debate today.

Part of Bill C-12 allows for the creation of the judicial compensation and benefits commission. As I indicated in my opening remarks, this provides the government yet another opportunity to make patronage appointments.

There are a couple of appointments about which I and many of my constituents have questions. We are not saying all individuals appointed by the Liberal government fall into this category. However there needs to be a higher degree of accountability and scrutiny of individuals appointed to important positions by the government.

A former colleague in this place, Lou Sekora, the former member for Coquitlam, was recently appointed by the government. He was given a patronage position as a citizenship judge. It was a bit alarming because in the history of his dealings in the House, he often acted in a very partisan manner and resorted to name calling in regard to racial comments, comments which were recorded in Hansard . He even made such comments in his own community after he was defeated in the election.

Despite that, he was appointed a citizenship judge. It does not make sense that he was chosen for that job based on his prior experiences, performance or public record of having said things that were in many ways inflammatory to the issue of new citizens and immigrants. That is an example of an appointment that needed more scrutiny and that the government was remiss in making.

Many other positions could have been chosen. The government showed a lack of sensitivity in putting that individual in that position. The opportunity to scrutinize such appointments is provided for in this part of the bill.

We have had debates in the House in the last couple days about related issues having to do with the minister for multiculturalism and her circumstance. I will not go into detail on that. It is on the record and it is circulating out there.

When there is a lack of sensitivity on important issues like this, we must look at the actions and deeds rather than just the words of individuals. That is a cause of concern for us.

We are attempting to work together with members of parliament from all parties to build alliances and common ground on all kinds of issues. A committee has just been struck on parliamentary reform. That was an idea brought forward by the government House leader and other members of parliament, and I think it was a good one. It is time for some changes.

Signalling an intention to work well with each other is a good thing. The government can demonstrate that intention through its actions. In the case of the minister for multiculturalism, the government could show its good will by taking action regarding the minister for what transpired in the last couple of days.

I will move now to the whole notion of judicial activism and how it has evolved in the last several years through the way the government has handled particular issues. There are many sensitive issues in the public domain, ones the government might hesitate in approaching when they bring forward legislation.

We had the supreme court decision on child pornography. We are well aware that the Alliance brought forward a motion and that about 63 government members wrote a letter to the Prime Minister asking him to use the notwithstanding clause. When that vote happened they did not support it.

The supreme court took about 18 months to rule on that decision, and we support the decision made by the court. However there was a window of 18 months where the government had an opportunity to act and did not.

During that time the government's lack of action resulted in specific activity in British Columbia and across the country that was not beneficial for children. It provided those who would be involved in the child pornography industry the opportunity to do so. It sent a message to—

[Modernization Of House Of Commons Procedure, March 21st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question. I think it is a good idea. Certainly we would be in agreement that all items should be made votable. We would have to make some changes to the way we do business in private members' business in terms of the scheduling of those items. Perhaps we need to consider the idea of every member having a votable item.

I would support that notion or any other ideas members may have to involve more members and to focus on the main part of the member's request that all items be made votable. That is a very important thing that we need to do.

[Modernization Of House Of Commons Procedure, March 21st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to participate in the debate on parliamentary reform.

As members of the Alliance, and previously as members of the Reform Party, parliamentary reform is something for which we have become known. We are glad to see that we are having a debate in the House this evening on such an important topic. It is of course something that has been near and dear to our hearts for a very long time.

We hope that the debate and the committee that has been struck thinks big and has the vision and courage to move ahead in the face of those who would argue to maintain the status quo. We must move forward together because where we will end up will be a better place than from where we started.

In any debate that we have, in any consideration of moving forward on any topic, we need to have a clear understanding of why we need to move forward.

In terms of parliamentary reform, the public, those to whom we are responsible and accountable, are telling us that they want to see change in this place. It is incumbent upon us as leaders of this nation to move forward and to show, with our actions, that we are willing to listen and that we are willing to do more than simply have a debate one day in parliament and then move ahead as though nothing had happened. I am encouraged by this committee and this opportunity to explore these very important issues because the time is right to move forward.

It is interesting that one of the only constants that we will experience in our lives is change. What is now will never be again and we will be moving continually forward.

Generally speaking, there seems to be two attitudes that people have toward change. The first one, which is the more natural inclination, is to resist change because change takes us down a new path to somewhere where we are perhaps a little uncertain as to where we will arrive. It is understandable that some people and, I would argue, many people are resistant to change.

We could have a vision of where we are going. We could bring people along to understand that there is a compelling reason to move forward to a new destination, to a better place. We could take into consideration people's honest concerns about making those changes. We could have a clear airing of being able to present ideas that are holding others back from wanting to go forward with change. I think we could do those things.

We could go down that road and end up in a better place. Unfortunately there will be no rest for those who are involved in change, because once we get to the better place there will be others who will suggest further change.

Change is constant. We must grapple with that concept and understand that when we are talking about parliamentary reform the initiatives that we may move forward on will not be the end of the ball game. In many ways they will just be the beginning.

We certainly need to go down that road. We certainly need to work together in the House in ways we are sometimes unaccustomed to working. We need to work with members of all parties. We need to work together as government and opposition members to achieve some goals and a vision of ending up in a better place. It is not for ourselves but for this institution and for those who will come after us to govern.

We will have our names on a plaque in the basement of this hall one day. Apart from our families and personal acquaintances, very few might ever remember that we were honoured to grace these halls. However we will remember and cherish the moments we had to make a difference in Canada. It is incumbent upon us to make the most of this opportunity, to do what we can for this place here and now, so that those who come behind us in the future will carry that torch for us with that notion of change.

This place cannot be a static environment. The House cannot be a place where the rules are cast in stone. It cannot be a place where the ideas and innovations of those who lead this nation are unable to make it to the forefront. It has to be a place where all those ideas and issues are brought to bear. This is the place where we have been sent to do the nation's business for the period of time we are honoured to serve here.

That is why I am encouraged by this opportunity. It is a great honour to serve here. We need to give hope to our citizens that those who are leading are also listening and acting on the will of our citizens.

If we take these actions it will provide an opportunity to send a signal or message to the 40% or so of our citizens who chose not to vote in the last election. Many individuals who did not vote in the last election have said that the government and members of parliament are not listening, that it did not matter who was sent here, that nothing would change. We need to signal to our citizens that we are willing to change.

Many proposals have been put forward by members in the House today. I appreciate what they have had to say. I would not agree with all the suggestions and it is good to have the debate.

I pay tribute to my colleague from Calgary Southwest who announced today that he would be leaving public life and returning to the private sector. He has been a leader on these issues for many years: before he got to the House and as he served in the House and will continue to serve until the end of this year.

His vision was one that we are now grappling with in the House. One of the things he brought forward was the issue of free votes in the House of Commons. There is no reason we cannot move forward on that initiative without any legislative change or any change to the standing orders. We could do it simply by allowing members to vote the wishes of their constituents.

Government members could support an opposition motion or a bill and opposition members could support a government bill or motion. We could work together on areas where there is commonality. We could bridge that gap, the partisan divide that seems to be very much a part of this place. We will never erase that totally, but there are many opportunities for us to work together for change, and free votes is one of them.

I was encouraged by the Minister for International Trade the other day. It was a small item but it was a gesture of good will. When we had a debate on softwood lumber in this place last week, the minister consented to stay beyond the regular time for questions. In fact that was initiated, Mr. Speaker, by your asking the House if there would be consent for such an item, and there was.

The minister stayed and he answered questions from opposition members for perhaps another 10 minutes. Although that was such a small item it sent a message of good will to members of the opposition that there was a minister who was willing to entertain questions. It was a very small change, but let us imagine if we were to incorporate that as a rule change or something we would do on a regular basis. That would help to break down the walls of partisanship. It would build a deposit of political capital for ministers of the government. It would be good for all members of the House.

With regard to private members' business, all bills should be votable. We could find ways to work around the current schedule to make that happen so that members could bring forward their items.

I know that my time is drawing short on this topic, so I will conclude by saying that I sincerely hope we spend time putting these changes into action. I hope we do not just have a debate, put it on the shelf and ignore what we have discussed here. We should move forward together in this place in a spirit of co-operation to make it a better place, not only for us but for future generations. Then we would have a responsive parliament which reflects the will and the wishes of those who have sent us here to govern.