A day? This one says an hour. I do not care if it is a day or what it is, not one of them would ask for that. I cannot believe we are doing this.
With the federation of municipalities wanting to deal and co-operate with the federal government, more than likely its members would ask only for their expenses to be paid. They probably would ask for no remuneration whatsoever. But no dialogue took place with them on this issue.
The bill requires members to have relevant knowledge or experience but it does not define that term. If we want relevant knowledge or experience at the local level, all we have to do is take some mayors and councillors—and it does not matter if they vote Liberal or not—and put them on that committee. Perhaps it might be better if they did not vote Liberal. We might then be able to have someone with an open mind.
Presumably relevant knowledge or experience could mean any person who is a member in good standing of the Liberal Party, which concerns me a little bit. It would be much better, as I have stated, if the members were required to be a certified member of a professional organization as well. There are a lot of them who are members of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.
I would not mind if the bill would allow public servants, including municipal employees, to serve on the panel, but I do not want them to be in a conflict because they are hired by the mayors and councillors. If they come back with a recommendation that is in conflict with what the mayors and councillors of the municipalities where they work are feeling on certain issues, then it would make it most difficult for them. I must say that at the local level we do have some very qualified people whose input could be used. When I look at the panel that is one of the major concerns I have.
There are two major concerns. I feel very strongly that the federal government should be paying taxes just the same as the private sector and everyone else. It should pay its taxes just the same as my family pays their taxes. Why should it be any different? It is the same as the provincial governments paying their taxes. If we were able to make everyone feel equal and feel that no one was getting any special treatment, the local people would have a better feeling about this issue.
The panel is supposed to be appointed by the minister. The panel will be paid by the government. The panel reports only to the minister and its decisions are not public.
I cannot believe we are bringing in a bill like this. If the bill does come in then the recommendations should certainly be made public. The next thing we know secret letters will go out to everybody else and somebody will get a copy that was not supposed to be made public. If we make it public it will not look like we are hiding anything.
When it says that the panel serves at the pleasure of the minister, which means the minister can say “I do not like what you have brought in so I am going to remove you and put somebody else in there”, that worries me as well.
We are very much in favour of some parts of the bill, but there are concerns, and I feel very strongly that those concerns should be addressed. There is no question that there should be changes.
We also talk about grants in lieu of taxes. These are difficult times on the Hill because once again the government has seen fit to spend the money, perhaps in an irresponsible way, but the next thing we know the grants could be eliminated in lieu of taxes and nothing would be there for the municipalities. What would happen then? The local governments would have to raise their taxes to make up for what the federal government would not be giving.
I have a major concern with the federal government telling me and all Canadians that it will give us grants in lieu of taxes. This tells me that it does not want to pay the full tax.
The concerns that I have are concerns that my party has. We would like to see a legislative review. If that panel is put in place by the minister and he makes these appointments from all across Canada, we want to see a legislative review of the panel after five years to see if it is working well and to allow the House to make any changes that are necessary.
When we talk about setting up and paying someone $125 a day plus expenses to sit on a committee, this is when people in Canada get very discouraged, they truly do. When we are at the local level, we get very discouraged with that. That is not necessary.
As I stated earlier in my remarks, this should go to the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. This should all be tabled until the Federation of Canadian Municipalities has been able to sit down, discuss this and have its total input into the bill.
I think this is probably the only government that has been in power that has never sat down with the president and the board of directors of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities when dealing with issues like this. I cannot believe that the Liberals talk about grants in lieu of taxes when they have not even had the input from those at the local level whom it will affect.
As far as the bill goes, I feel very strongly that it should be tabled until that input is there and until we hear back from the Federation of Canadian Municipalities as to whether or not it is in support of it or whether or not it feels there should be changes.
