Pierre Brien

[Patent Act, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak to Bill S-17, an act to amend the Patent Act.

We in the Bloc Quebecois believe that the issue of intellectual property is fundamental and important in the context of stimulating innovation and creativity, especially in the health sector where access to the latest discoveries and to new technologies enables us to make extraordinary discoveries that help treat diseases, old or new. Huge effort and investment in research and development is required.

In order to encourage research and development in business, discoveries must be properly protected through the protection of intellectual property.

The bill corrects two discrepancies that unfortunately had to go through an international body. We could have done the work ourselves without waiting for the WTO to reach its decisions, which informed us that old provisions with respect to products covered under old legislation dating from the early 1990s created a problem with respect to the effective protection afforded these patents.

There will therefore be technical amendments, in short, nothing basic, to the focus of the policy on the protection of intellectual property. I hope the bill will not, once again, become a debate on the need to protect those doing research and development.

On the contrary, if we were to go in that direction, I hope we would insist on strengthening and improving the protection afforded to those who make discoveries. Even though we are complying with international conventions, the level of protection of patents is lagging somewhat behind that of the United States and the countries of the European Union, among others.

It must be realized that the discovery of a drug is not a simple process. It is extremely costly. On average, we are talking about an investment that may vary from $300 million to $500 million U.S. to discover a drug that will be a significant improvement. A patent for a new product is a huge investment that must later be recovered by these companies.

The shorter the period the higher the price will be. However, if the period of protection of the product on the market is long, the recovery of that investment may take place over a longer period. We will then have access to a quality drug that will cost less than if the protection period were very short. It may well take 10 years before a promising molecule or a brilliant idea is marketed as a commercial product, given the process at Health Canada, among others, for certification, the clinical tests, the four test phases and so on.

In reality, the patent has an actual lifespan of about 10 years on the average. We are not necessarily talking of those that go on for 20 years in practice. Obviously the product is patented as soon as it is discovered but just being discovered does not put it on the market the very next day.

Given this situation, when protection is given for a certain length of time, the day that protection expires we hope to see the dynamics of competition set in. Thus there will be generic versions that are far less expensive because copying a product does not require anything like the investment discovering one does.

What we want to be sure of is that once a patent has expired there will be a competitive market in which the various companies operate on the marketplace. There is a special situation in the Canadian market, however, because of the highly aggressive nature of the generic industry. It has every right to be that way. In each of these debates, it voices the same desire to at last find ways of reducing the true scope of patent protection.

I have no objections once a patent has expired to the industry having access to the market within the normal rules of competition. We do however have to ensure that there is a proper period of protection for patented products, so that the public can have hopes for significant discoveries relating to numerous conditions and health problems that cannot yet be treated and investment can be attracted to our country's high calibre scientific community.

Of course I am most familiar with the situation in Quebec but I do know that the industry has also developed in other provinces. Ontario too has a sizeable industry. As well, there is a very strong emergence of biotechnology research in this area. In order to develop and maintain our quality of research and keep our researchers here, however, they need to be able to work within a framework in which there are advantageous rules on intellectual property. This we have.

In Quebec, with the university network, for instance, and many companies, we have know-how that makes us one of the best places in the world in which to do this kind of research. We have every interest in further developing this industry, which will benefit citizens through the discoveries we make in health, as well as economically, and in having a scientific community such as this present in our territory.

All this is to say that, although this is a good opportunity to pay tribute to all the work done by those working in this industry and to encourage them to invest even more because we want more research and development, I do not want to see this debate drag on too long.

It is obviously a bill intended to comply with WTO rulings. We are therefore going to treat it accordingly. We hope the debate in committee will be rapid. The committee is obviously its own master but as a member I can already say that we will be among those who hope that the debate is speedy, that the bill will be approved in committee and that eventually it will come back to the House for final approval in order to clarify the situation.

I hope we are going to send a clear message at the same time that there is no question of reviewing or weakening the rules of intellectual property. The Minister of Industry is with us on this. I know the government has set itself the ambitious goal of ensuring that research and development Canada wide will double in the next 10 years.

This will require a framework to protect intellectual property and freedom from the fear of threat for those working in innovative industry. These people must be told clearly that the measures to be taken in the future, if there were to be others, will not weaken intellectual property but rather strengthen it and further develop all those who contribute to it.

In the case of Quebec, they are many, and I hope there will be more of them in the pharmaceutical and biotechnology sectors, all of this within certain restrictions but in a context in which the industry has essentially honoured its commitments to increasing research. I think over $900 million is spent on research annually. The number of jobs has grown since the passage of the legislation on patent protection. This is what the industry had predicted and this is what happened.

Before I conclude I would point out that there is an important body whose role it is to protect consumers. It is the Conseil du prix des médicaments brevetés. Its role is to ensure that the price of patented drugs on the market is reasonable and does not rise inordinately.

Within the limits of a protective framework for intellectual property, with an efficient Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, we are in a position to have a balanced approach to permit the emergence of a very solid industry. We are also in a position to produce products of increasing value to consumers, which in some cases will help reduce hospital stays and provide non-surgical solutions without increasing health costs. There is often a perception that drugs increase health system costs. In some cases, drug use can reduce costs because hospitalization will be avoided.

With our greying population, we have a duty to provide a context, an environment that is favourable to research and development, in this sector as in others. This one, however, is a sector that affects all those whom we represent.

We will co-operate in ensuring that the bill gets through as promptly as possible.

[Competition Act, May 3rd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, this morning we are debating Bill C-23, an act to amend the Competition Act and the Competition Tribunal Act.

In essence the bill brings together a number of initiatives from MPs' private members bills. It is a bit of a cobble of a number of bills and initiatives proposed by various members on, among other things, the practices and procedures of the competition tribunal.

There are four aspects to the bill. One concerns changes to the procedures of the competition tribunal in order to make it more effective.

Another aspect concerns the interim orders the competition tribunal can issue to prevent situations causing such lengthy prejudice that a corporation, even if it knows it is causing a prejudice, will eliminate a competitor and prevent his or her subsequent return.

The aim of it is to eliminate a practice that could make it advantageous to behave illegally, since it means that competitors will be eliminated and that the price to pay for this is perhaps less than the value of the resultant benefit. The tribunal could have more teeth and greater effectiveness as regards these two aspects.

There are also amendments to facilitate international co-operation. In this age of globalization and rapidly evolving communications technologies, we now know that greater international co-operation is needed to improve the effectiveness of the consumer protection measures in the Competition Act.

A fourth aspect of the bill, which everyone has heard about and which is perhaps the simplest to understand, includes amendments to prohibit deceptive contests, the kind that suggest we have won something and must pay money to receive our prize. The bill contains provisions which make it an offence to send a deceptive notice by electronic or regular mail to an individual suggesting that he or her she has won a price and must pay money to receive it. We know that this kind of practice very often leads to abuses and questionable situations.

I therefore urge everyone to exercise the greatest caution. When people win something and have entered no contest they should be on their guard. There is something very fishy about this and, in general, the problems will be greater than the rewards. There have been so many abuses in this area that the time has come for legislators to send a clearer message that these practices will be dealt with much more severely.

The bill has many laudable goals. We will obviously have to examine it in greater detail in parliamentary committee. Then we will debate it in the House again. We will be able to hear from witnesses on various subjects they feel we should know more about. We will also have to take into account the jurisdictions of the various levels in order to ensure that the bill respects the work already being done by the provinces. I am thinking, for instance, of Quebec, with its Consumer Protection Act.

Before having had the opportunity to examine the bill in detail, one has to wonder how it will ensure that consumers are well protected when a province already has consumer protection legislation to regulate such practices and the federal government gets involved with the Competition Act? There is a grey area but I am sure that the work done in committee will shed more light on this issue.

This is what the bill is all about. My disappointment has to do with the fact that while the government is dealing with competition issues, one of the great frustrations and concerns of consumers right now is the gasoline issue and the behaviour of the oil industry.

If the government is serious about finding tools to improve business and competitive practices, the oil industry definitely deserves greater attention because gas prices are reaching record levels and are constantly increasing. The prospect of paying even more for a litre of gas is a major concern to consumers, to those whose livelihood is dependent on an industry in which transportation is an important component and to those who live in regions where transportation is an unavoidable reality and a major production cost.

That is the case in a region like mine, the Abitibi-Témiscamingue. We have to make heavy use of trucking to get our products out and others in, which adds considerably to our production costs. It affects agriculture and it affects the trucking industry. In the urban centres, it affects the taxi industry. Thus there are many groups affected by the rise in prices. I do not need to list them all but many people are seriously penalized by high gasoline prices.

It is not true that the increase in the price per barrel is the only reason we are paying such a high price at present. The trade practices of the major oil companies are dubious, to say the least, and unfortunately are not being given any specific scrutiny by the government.

We would have liked to have seen action on a number of fronts, such as, first, in the short term, helping out the consumer by doing something about the tax in order to keep the prices down. At the same time, however, something needs to be done about the variables of competition.

There is no way I will ever be convinced that it is normal competitive practice for major competitors such as the big oil companies to always all have the same prices at the same time, for gas stations on four corners of an intersection to raise prices at exactly the same time in one place, while another place only a few kilometres away will have different prices. The transportation variable does not explain these price differences, nor do the variables of competition.

Certain trade practices are used to do in all the little independents. It is very clear that this is the strategy and action plan of the major companies. Obviously it is in their interest, and understandably so; they are in business to make money. If we do not do something they will use these strategies to increase their share of the market.

I cannot believe, and this is a common perception, that the business practices of these firms cannot comply with the usual rules of competition. There is a sort of collusion between these companies. A mechanism must be put in place to continually monitor the conduct of the oil industry. For example, let us give the competition bureau additional means to set up an oil industry monitoring section. Let us ensure that the law makes sentencing or proof of anti-competitive practices easier to obtain. In this regard, I wish the current bill had opened this window.

In committee, we will study the subjects presented. Obviously, people will appear before the committee, but I fear that when we study the bill we will limit ourselves to the subject matter of the bill and not deal with this very important section of the Competition Act or the ways in which competitive practices in the oil industry may be improved.

Here, I repeat remarks shared by many of the members opposite at one time. Over 50 of them signed a report stating that the Canadian market was a real treat for the oil companies. The report also stated that, on average, Canadian consumers were paying 4 cents or 5 cents more for a litre of gas than U.S. consumers, and that taxes should be removed because of competitive practices in Canada where the federal government's approach to promoting the establishment of a strong industry has gone too far, to the extent that this was done at consumers' expense.

I am somewhat surprised to see that only a few still hold this view, that the others have forgotten that they signed this report and that this issue is no longer one of their political priorities even though it is more important than ever to consumers.

I hope that at third reading some substantial amendments will have been made to improve competitive practices in the oil industry and to control these companies somewhat. People can no longer stand to see these companies making huge profits while they are paying exorbitant prices for gas.

This has to stop at some point. We must send the signal that we are concerned about this situation. Even though the bill has some good features, it overlooks an extremely important component in our daily lives, namely the oil industry. I find this difficult to accept.

I hope that in the end the bill will include a clause amending the mandate of the competition bureau regarding the oil industry.

[Gasoline Pricing, April 27th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, as we all know, the cost of gasoline is of major concern to the people of Quebec and of Canada.

The Minister of Industry seems somewhat confused about his responsibilities in this area, yet he ought to know that the Competition Act is federal.

Is the government going to recognize that the Competition Act lacks teeth and that it is high time it began to protect the citizen and consumer instead of the major oil companies?

[Gasoline Pricing, April 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, in addition to all the people being penalized by having to pay too much for their gasoline, there are those earn their living by consuming a lot of gasoline. I refer to truckers, taxi drivers and farmers, who are doubly penalized.

Will the government continue to leave these persons at the mercy of the oil companies, which are becoming rich on their backs because it is refusing to review the Competition Act, which has no effect on the petroleum sector, where the concentration is far too great?

[Gasoline Pricing, April 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, as weekends and holidays approach, the cost of gasoline rises as if by magic at every gas station, and the Conference Board thinks there is no problem, that market forces are working perfectly and that there is no collusion.

Could the Minister of Industry, who seems to share the Conference Board's conclusions, since he is refusing to tighten the law, explain the economic relationship between the price of gasoline and holidays?

[Gasoline Prices, April 25th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the government, the Minister of Natural Resources can think of nothing better to say than increases are inevitable and others are to blame. In the meantime, truckers, taxi drivers, farmers and low income households continue to pay exorbitant prices.

Will the minister acknowledge finally that, instead of preaching resignation, he should consolidate the provisions of the Competition Act, which by the way is a federal jurisdiction, to bring the oil companies into line once and for all?

[Gasoline Prices, April 25th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, while the oil companies continue to accumulate huge profits and we witness real collusion, the prices at the pump continue to rise.

The former Minister of Industry could come up with no better idea than to order a study by the Conference Board, where the oil companies are represented. As we expected, it produced nothing.

The public wants the government to take strong action against the oil companies. Will the government finally admit that its study is worthless? While they studied and pussyfooted around, the prices kept rising, and the oil companies made unconscionable profits.

[Resource Industries, April 24th, 2001]

Madam Chairman, I would like to make a comment to the secretary of state, and then to ask my colleague from Jonquière a question.

I agree with what he said. This is what the government does in its dealings with communities. In the case of the federal government in Quebec, there are two structures which affect regional development.

Of course, there are also ministers with a sectoral involvement, but the main tools are the Community Futures Development Corporations and Canada Economic Development.

Canada Economic Development Canada does not have the approach he mentioned, an approach based on co-operation, where the community takes the decisions. Canada Economic Development Canada produces a program thought of and made in Ottawa, Montreal or elsewhere for regional development. That is a problem.

There is a difference between the structure in place in Ontario and the one in Quebec. FedNor does not operate the same way as Canada Economic Development. The later is much more centralized.

Therefore, I hope that the member will pressure his colleague responsible for regional development in Quebec and tell him that this does not respond exactly to our needs at this time and that we need more flexibility and a model which goes in the direction you mentioned, a model which comes from the grassroots.

This is not exactly the way Canada Economic Development operates. In programming, any project of more than $100,000 has to be approved at a senior level. There are practical problems with that.

I think that the secretary of state is acting in good faith, I am even sure of it, but I hope that we will see some changes in this regard.

I have a short comment for the member for Jonquière, whom I congratulate on her speech. There is something I forgot to mention earlier, and I would like to know what she thinks about it.

Often, there are difficulties in the regions. For instance, the Department of Natural Resources or other departments, such as Agriculture Canada, are fairly large. Often we would like to have a few more researchers or those people described as public servants. We would like them to be a little more present in the regions, or for there to be more partnership, often with our teaching institutions. We would like these people to work in our communities. This would enhance co-operation between the community and the departments.

I do not know whether this feeling exists in her region. In my region, we would like more employees of these large departments to be based in the region, to live and breathe a little more of regional reality, rather than always having to wander all over the place to convince people of their efficiency.

We would like to have more public servants based in the region, while reporting to the administrative structures, but a little more in touch with what is going on in the community.

There are a few agreements, but we would like to see them extended. We find it a bit frustrating to be one of the major producers in the mining sector and not to have more people from the Department of Natural Resources assigned to our region, for example, or based in our region.

I am sure that the member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik will agree with me.

[Resource Industries, April 24th, 2001]

Madam Chairman, I cannot resist correcting the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord on a point or two. I have respect for his political involvement but, at the end of his speech, when he questions the good faith of the government of Quebec in managing or spending money, I would point out to him that the government of Quebec is accountable to the voters. Normally, in Quebec City, there is one opposition party, which is there to do its job. These members are accountable to the public.

I do not think that people expect their federal MPs to become opposition members in Quebec City when they are here. There are places where that can be done. I am sure that the people in his riding hope that the member will go after the maximum in Ottawa.

The member also sort of insinuated that there were many transfers that were going to be made to Quebec and that he was not too sure whether that was going to be properly spent in the regions. This needs to be put in perspective, however. There were many cuts and, at the time, we were not concerned about how the government was making them. People did not want Ottawa having a say in how they were made, but when it came to reinvesting money and good news, Ottawa had to call the shots.

There cannot be a double standard. The record needs to be set straight. Equalization payments and health transfers do not advance regional development. I hope that the government is talking about new money for regional development.

I remember when I was young, the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord was a Progressive Conservative at the time, there were Canada-Quebec agreements, subsidiary agreements on regional development. My region received $75 million over five years. Since then, I wonder if Canada Economic Development has spent $5 million in the last 10 years. At some point, we are no longer talking about amounts comparable to what they were previously.

At the time, the Conservatives did some good development work. I give them credit for this. There are two members who are now sitting on the other side, but who were Conservatives then. They believed in the regions and I hope the Liberal Party will take a more favourable approach towards the regions, while respecting everyone's abilities.

I will conclude with a question. Would the hon. member agree with regional management of this? He spoke of a development corporation for the kingdom or a local corporation that would be a shareholder in projects, which is a very good idea, and not only a granting agency, so that we could have long term benefits?

At the present time, CFDCs, as the secretary of state was pointing out rightly, are managed locally but not Canada Economic Development. Decision making centres for these structures are outside. I am sure he has experienced this elsewhere. Would it not be appropriate, at least in the short term, to correct the way Canada Economic Development is working, so that people from the region can have a say on what is going on there? There ought to be more leeway to work with this tool while waiting to develop another, if need be.

[Resource Industries, April 24th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I have a comment and a question and I will continue in the spirit of good co-operation tonight and try to build on our common points instead of our differences.

At the end of his speech, the hon. member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik talked about the creation of an agency or a willingness to see more decisions made in the regions. At the present time, the regional development agency is Canada Economic Development. Quite often we are frustrated because files only go through the riding office in Val-d'Or, but the decision making centre is not there. For example, Community Futures Development Corporations have boards comprised of people from the region.

Would the hon. member agree with the creation of a regional decision making structure and with people from the region running Canada Economic Development and having more leeway in making decisions?

At the present time, the discretionary fund of local leaders is $100,000. It is the same as it was about fifteen years ago in former regional development agencies; $100,000 today and $100,000 fifteen years ago do not have the same value.

Would he agree with a board comprised of people from the region having more leeway to approve projects in the regions instead of constantly having, as in our case, to send them to Montreal or Ottawa to have them approved?