Maurice Dumas

[Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization Act, June 4th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out to my colleague that I was making a comparison. I said so earlier.

This company strangely looks like ADM and that is why, of course, I allowed myself to talk about it here when dealing with the problem caused by the transfer of Mirabel flights to Dorval.

The distinction between regular and charter air services is diminishing so that a considerable reduction of charter activities at Mirabel cannot be excluded, which could put into question the airport's financial profitability. Several carriers that were consulted by the Department of Transportation pointed out they expected Mirabel to close sooner or later.

As a result of the Quebec government's position on this issue, ADM's chief executive officer responded in an article released in La Presse on Wednesday, May 29, and I quote: ``May I suggest to you that public hearings on this issue are not necessary, since the area has long been waiting for these undertakings and there is a wide consensus on this''.

Furthermore, Jacques Auger mentioned that the nature of the company's project was not subject to the assessment process provided for in each of the acts. Why? Because we are not enlarging Dorval airport, we will not increase its surface, we are not adding new runways, nor are we extending existing ones".

ADM's decision is a blatant lack of transparency, as would be the case for Nav Canada, because the people involved are still demanding public hearings. A second mistake should be avoided. The first one was made when the land around Mirabel was expropriated. Are we going to say once again to the people in my riding that it was another administrative error?

Bill C-20 must not be adopted, because it does not take into account the safety of the people concerned. A report from the Transportation Safety Board of Canada lists the aeronautical incidents that occurred around Mirabel and Dorval between January 1, 1981 and May 10, 1996.

This report also deals with safety matters. It points out that, during the same period, 89 reportable incidents occurred at Mirabel as opposed to 284 at Dorval. It concludes by demonstrating that the number of accidents is 13 times higher at Dorval than at Mirabel.

Even if the percentage of fatal accidents is low, with over 60 million passengers passing through Canadian airports every year, one must not forget the impact of transferring flights to Dorval.

A group of citizens calling themselves "Citizens for Quality of Life" or CQV in French got together to oppose ADM's decision to transfer flights from Mirabel to Dorval, because it will increase the level of noise and pollution in neighbouring municipalities without really generating any economic benefits. These municipalities are Ville-Saint-Laurent, Dorval and Mount Royal.

Furthermore, this group decided to intervene through the judicial process. It disclosed new environmental studies that raise many questions. One of these studies was carried out by the firm of D'Aragon, Desbiens, Halde et Associés, which maintains that the studies on air quality published by ADM are incomplete. Two other studies were done by Rowan, Williams, Davies & Irwin, a Guelph-based engineering consulting firm with expertise-

[Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization Act, June 4th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise this morning to speak to Bill C-20, an act respecting the commercialization of civil air navigation services, at third reading.

Since 1994, the Bloc Quebecois' position has been pretty much the same. The principle of privatization has always been acceptable to us, but we question how it is being applied. With the creation of Nav Canada, a not for profit organization, profitability obviously becomes the main concern. The objective of the Bloc Quebecois is to put the safety of passengers, staff, air carriers and the public ahead of any other consideration when business decisions are made by Nav Canada.

As I mentioned in the speech I gave in this House on this bill on May 17, this corporation bears a striking resemblance to ADM, a corporation which is not for profit and has no capital stock. For those who do not know it, ADM means Montreal airports, namely Mirabel and Dorval.

On August 1, 1992, ADM signed a lease with Transport Canada giving it the mandate to manage, run and develop Dorval and Mirabel airports. ADM is headed by a board of seven directors representing businesses in metropolitan Montreal-when I say metropolitan Montreal, I should really be saying Montreal, because there is only one director from the Lower Laurentians on the board-and by a CEO appointed by the seven agencies making up SOPRAM, the body responsible for promoting Montreal airports.

Mirabel airport is located in my riding, and I am very concerned by ADM's decision to transfer flights from Mirabel to Dorval. This

decision is a source of grave concern for me as we are wondering about the safety of passengers, staff, air carriers and the public at large. The CESAMM, a wide coalition in support of Montreal-Mirabel airport, has voiced its opposition to ADM's decision to transfer international flights from Mirabel to Dorval.

Even the Quebec transport minister, Jacques Brassard, disapproves of ADM's decision. He said that the arguments presented by ADM since it made this decision have many flaws.

According to Mr. Brassard, the Quebec government noted "no environmental impact assessment for the long and medium terms, making it impossible to judge this aspect of the issue". Second, he points out how uncertain the new future reserved for Mirabel is. He says that "a study conducted in 1994 by SNC-Lavalin for the Quebec transport department concluded that the lack of profitability of general freight services shows that the development of air freight strategies cannot be based on this sector. Analysis conducted by the MICST, the trade and industry department, yielded no decisive results regarding the impact in Canada of the free zone concept as suggested by ADM".

[Air Canada, May 29th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, on May 24, Air Canada announced that it would be opening up a new reservations centre in Saint John, New Brunswick, by this fall.

This centre would employ some 650 people processing toll free calls from anywhere in Canada. Montreal will then gradually phase out its reservations centre except for local callers. The FTQ estimates that this might mean the loss of about 600 Quebec jobs.

Having pressured ADM for the transfer of international flights to Dorval from Mirabel, Air Canada is now preparing to move its services out of Quebec. One might ask serious questions about the intentions of this air carrier. After the railway sector, is it now the turn of the airline sector to move lots of jobs out of Quebec?

Quebec is being attacked on all sides: first by the railway industry, then by the marine industry, now by the airlines.

[Tourism, May 17th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the 11th gala of the Grands Prix du tourisme québécois was held last weekend in the Montcalm hall, in Quebec City.

I would like to take this opportunity to offer my most sincere congratulations to all the winners of the Grands Prix du tourisme québécois. I would like to pay tribute specifically to Father Fernand Lindsay, Cleric of Saint Viator, founder and artistic director of the Lanaudière international music festival. Father Lindsay received the award of excellence. Every summer, thousands of spectators flock to the Lanaudière amphitheatre to listen to the best musicians in the world.

The exceptional quality of this festival makes the Laurentides-Lanaudière area and the rest of Quebec very proud.

Nine other awards were given in various tourism fields of activity. Over a thousand prominent members of the Quebec tourism industry and business sector were in attendance.

[Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization Act, May 17th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join in this debate, at second reading, on Bill C-20, an act respecting the commercialization of civil air navigation services.

As my colleague, the member for Louis-Hébert, said in this House on Wednesday May 15, when the former Minister of Transport, now Minister of Human Resources Development, first announced the policy on commercializing airports and air navigation, in July 1994, the Bloc Quebecois agreed with the principle.

Since then, we have been thinking long and hard about how the principle is to be applied. The creation of Nav Canada, a non-profit organization providing a public service, is aimed necessarily at being cost-effective. This corporation bears a striking resemblance to ADM, Aéroports de Montréal, the corporation managing Montreal airports, airports being plural, of course. It is not for profit and has no capital stock.

On August 1, 1992, ADM signed a lease with Transport Canada giving it the mandate to manage, run and develop Dorval and Mirabel airports. ADM is headed by a board of seven directors representing businesses in metropolitan Montreal, and by a CEO appointed by seven agencies making up SOPRAM, the body responsible for promoting Montreal airports.

Even though I am not a member of the Standing Committee on Transport, I have a particular interest in Bill C-20 as the Lachute municipal airport and Mirabel airport are located in my riding of Argenteuil-Papineau. Both airports, together with about 600 airports across Canada, are affected by Bill C-20.

Before I continue, I would like to give a brief history of Lachute airport. It was built in 1950 by Ayers Limited and acquired by the City of Lachute in 1973. Considering the enthusiasm of the local population and private companies for the municipal airport of Lachute, it was decided to proceed with a study on development of the airport with a view to attracting companies in the aviation sector, without taking anything away from the recreational aspects of the airport.

Improvement work was started in the Fall of 1992, with the help of a federal contribution from the Financial Assistance Program for Local and Commercials Airports at Transport Canada. Today, Lachute airport, with 200 acres of industrial and commercial land, close to Dorval and Mirabel airports, is a major drawing card for the region. The amendments that the Bloc Quebecois proposed would protect taxpayers and air carriers.

The first motion of the Bloc Quebecois is very important. It would add to the preamble of Bill C-20 that the safety of passengers, personnel, air carriers and the public take precedence over all other considerations in the business decisions taken by Nav Canada. It is essential that safety and the interests of the public come before the commercial interests of Nav Canada.

Motion no 2, also presented by the Bloc Quebecois, is equally important since there are some similarities with ADM, and since the board of directors is constituted the same way. Only large carriers are represented on the board of Nav Canada. In the case of ADM, we now realize that the public has really no voice to choose representatives to protect its interests.

For these two companies, only business interests counts. And what about these political appointments that certainly do not necessarily ensure the interests of taxpayers and air carriers, especially small carriers?

The federal government is transferring to local authorities responsability for the management and operation of airports. There must therefore be close and increased monitoring to prevent abuse. Bill C-20 must not be passed without including the amendments proposed by the Bloc Quebecois, amendments that will ensure a minimum of protection for the public and air carriers.

With my colleagues from the Lower Laurentians, the hon. members for Blainville-Deux-Montagnes and Laurentides, the mayor of Mirabel and many other stakeholders, I personally intervened in the issue involving the transfer of flights from Mirabel airport to Dorval. I can assure you that ADM had no scruples making decisions without public consultation.

Indeed, a public hearing request was made repeatedly by local representatives and others, a request that was supported by Quebec's transportation minister, Jacques Brassard. The answer was shocking: ADM gave a one-month deadline, without going over the decision taken a long time before.

This brings me directly to motions No. 25 and 26, which would delete clause 96.1 and add Nav Canada to the list of institutions in the act. The Bloc Quebecois categorically opposes Motion No. 25, which attacks the very foundation of transparency. The federal government would be well advised to exempt Nav Canada from the Privacy Act. As in the case of ADM, the public would be unable to be informed of major information regarding them.

I myself recently asked for the reports on which ADM based its decisions regarding the transfer of flights from Mirabel to Dorval. ADM told me flat out that, as a protected corporation, it was under

no obligation to provide me with the studies or reports, just as Nav Canada will be protected by the government's proposed amendment.

Taxpayers' representatives then commissioned an economic study on Dorval and Mirabel airports. This study, which was done by Professor Yvon Bigras, from the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières; Professor Robert Gagné, from the École des hautes études commerciales; and Professor Jacques Roy, from the Université du Québec à Montréal, was in complete contradiction with ADM's arguments for consolidating flights at Dorval. The public could read this report, but not some of the studies allegedly done by ADM.

This report scientifically outlines the myriad disadvantages of consolidating flights at Dorval. All the measures to be implemented were estimated at $643 million by ADM in 1993. Moreover, compensating Mirabel's current franchisees would cost some $80 million. The transfer of flights to Dorval raises the problem of noise with the resulting operational restrictions.

This report shows that the advantage of concentrating flights at Mirabel lies in the airport's quasi-unlimited ultimate capacity and few noise restrictions. ADM even admitted that, in any case, flights will have to be consolidated at Mirabel within 10 to 15 years because of Dorval's limited capacity.

What will be the fate of regional airports, which will have to pay charges without having a say in this?

This brings me to Motion No. 15 put forward by the Bloc Quebecois, whose purpose is to ensure that aircraft belonging to DND or to a national government are not exempted from paying charges. In the opinion of the Bloc Quebecois, if clause 32(2) is not amended, it will, once again, hide DND's spending. The Bloc Quebecois has always been in favour of reducing defence spending. The bill would force taxpayers and carriers to pay DND's charges.

In conclusion, I urge the government to join us in protecting taxpayers and carriers.

[Supply, May 16th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Prince-Albert-Churchill River told us that this country has been good to Quebecers. So why has sovereignty made so much progress?

I have been an independentist for more than 35 years. At the beginning, in the 1960s, we were seen as crackpots. In the 1966 provincial election, the Rassemblement pour l'indépendance nationale or RIN, which was led by Pierre Bourgault, garnered nearly 8 per cent of the vote. In 1970, 23 per cent of the people voted for the PQ. In 1973, the PQ received 30 per cent of the vote and, in 1976, it came to power.

Did the hon. member for Prince-Albert-Churchill River ask himself why there are so-called "separatists"-although we prefer to use the term "sovereignist"-in Quebec?

[Seniors, April 30th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, today I would like to pay tribute to seniors for their involvement in and active contribution to seniors' associations. Not enough is said about their devotion and the importance of their work in Quebec and Canadian society. Nowadays, seniors can expect to lead a full life well into their golden years. They have my admiration.

The Salon des aîné(e)s du Québec, which will be held in Quebec City from May 2 to 5, is an example of the involvement of senior citizens. Associations devoted to seniors have become essential tools for this age group. Their efforts to improve services available to seniors are commendable. "Coeur d'or" awards will be given

out at this event to seniors and organizations of the year. The five awards will be presented before some 500 presidents of seniors' groups invited specially for the occasion.

I wish the salon great success. Congratulations to the organizers, particularly general manager André Guillemette.

[Aéroports De Montréal, March 22nd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, on February 22, the minister agreed to study the possibility of compensating the operators of concessions that might be affected by ADM's decision.

Would the minister at least acknowledge that the government is still open to such compensation?

[Aéroports De Montréal, March 22nd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport. ADM, the organization that manages Dorval and Mirabel airports for the federal government, recently decided to move international flights from Mirabel to Dorval, unfortunately without consulting the public.

Given the government's continued political and moral responsibility in this matter and the prime concern-to repair the past errors of this very government-will the minister ask ADM to hold real consultations with the public concerned before making any final decision?

[Indian Affairs, March 15th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I should point out to the minister that I am a member of the Bloc Quebecois and not the Reform Party, thank God.

Does the minister not agree that, by continuing to protect former chief Jerry Peltier-who, may I remind you, used to work for his department-and by failing to acknowledge the February 28 vote, he is showing disrespect for the community of Kanesatake and treating all Native communities in Canada like children?