André Bellavance

[Business of Supply, February 8th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, if I understand correctly the twisted logic of the member who just asked a question, since other countries do not care for the environment and do not respect the Kyoto protocol and decided not to sign on, we should stay put, slam on the brakes and just say that China will send us its pollution anyway. As the member tried to say jokingly, there is no use in raising the Kyoto flag.

On the contrary, it is important for us to act. I have always seen that, in international negotiations, money talks. Because China is now a member of the WTO, it is important for us to make it understand that trading has a price in terms of environment protection and workers' rights. These are things that we must learn and we must convince our trading partners that they should too. Moreover, in our own country and in Quebec also, we must respect the Kyoto protocol to set an example. We should not say that nothing can be done just because some countries are polluters.

[Business of Supply, February 8th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague just summed up the situation very well. In Québec, we have trailblazers like the Cascades company and farmers. They realized non-sustainable development was not an option. Indeed, our society needs to develop, but we cannot use our resources needlessly just to make a profit. True enough, you can make money with a short- term vision. But as my colleague said, we realized in the agricultural industry that if you exhaust the land, if you use up all your products and everything from which you earn a living, it will some day come to an end, for generations to come.

We must take care of the environment. Farmers being on the land and working on the land are probably the first ones who realized it was important to preserve all we have, not only for environmental but also for economic reasons.

Obviously, not everybody in the business community resorts to reckless development, quite the contrary. And Cascades is a fine example.

[Business of Supply, February 8th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Brome—Missisquoi.

I am pleased to take part in this important debate on the environment. It is a wide-ranging subject, but with this motion, we have decided to focus on Quebec's specific request. The Government of Quebec has long been calling on the federal government to provide it with $328 million so that it can meet its Kyoto protocol targets.

To remind hon. members exactly what we are talking about, I will read the motion, because we were treated to 20 minutes of rather academic speeches. I could see that you were very interested in what was said, Mr. Speaker. I felt that, for two government members, they did not outline any very concrete measures, although they did tell us that climate change was very important. We already know this, but I would have expected them to answer the question that was just asked—are they going to vote for or against the motion?—especially since they are government members from Quebec. Will they vote for this motion to give the Government of Quebec the $328 million it is owed, to help it implement its plan to comply with Kyoto? The motion reads as follows:

That, having recognized the principle of complying with the Kyoto targets, it is the opinion of this House that the government should provide the Government of Quebec with the sum of $328 million to enable it to implement its plan to meet the Kyoto Protocol targets.

This motion is crucial to Quebec, which already has its own green plan, as hon. members know, but which lacks that sum of $328 million that will allow it to reach its target of reducing greenhouse gas emissions to 6% below 1990 levels.

I come from the Bois-Francs area, which has long been known as a cradle for sustainable development. It is the birthplace of Normand Maurice, who is the father of recycling and recovery. This region is where the Lemaire family is from; they set up the Industries Cascades. As you can see, I am acutely aware that I am representing a region and a population that have long understood the importance of the environment and, likewise, sustainable development.

As elsewhere in Quebec, the people in my region support the fight against climate change. I want to remind hon. members that a survey conducted just a few days ago, at the end of January, for The Globe and Mail and CTV, showed that nearly 80% of Quebeckers find that the government must make the necessary efforts to meet the Kyoto protocol targets. I imagine that the predecessors of the Conservative government who responded to the survey were not part of this 80%, but, in fact, a majority of Quebeckers understand the situation and want governments to take action.

While it has become fashionable to claim to want to protect the environment, I would like to remind hon. members of the work done by the Bloc Québécois, its environment critic in particular, the hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, who I commend. While listening to him earlier, I realized how effective his educational work is. His explanations and actions spell out the situation quite clearly and show us why the Government of Quebec is making this request. He drives a hybrid car. I think it is important to point out that he may not put the pedal to the metal, but he can drive at a respectable enough speed while saving fuel and protecting the environment at the same time. Far from slamming on the brakes, my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie has done a tremendous amount of work in this House. Without him, we would be far from where we are today on a number of bills and measures. I wish to acknowledge the work he has done here.

I was a candidate in 2000 and, even then, the Bloc Québécois electoral platform emphasized the need to implement measures for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Again today, the Bloc Québécois is proposing tough greenhouse gas emission standards for vehicles, discounts on the purchase of ecological vehicles, significant financial support for development of renewable energy sources—especially wind power—and an end to the tax system that favours the oil companies. The Conservative member from the Quebec region who spoke earlier seemed to be quite offended that we are calling for abolition of a tax system that favours the oil companies, as though those people could not survive these days. It is a little bit like saying that perhaps we should be helping the banks and giving them subsidies. It is the same principle. We also are proposing funding for organizations that contribute to the achievement of the Kyoto protocol targets.

That is what the Bloc Québécois is calling for in its platform. We are where we are today because of my colleague, the member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, who has worked for so long, and obviously the whole Bloc Québécois team and its members, meeting in convention, who have recognized for a long time how important the environment is for all of us.

Once again today, I am proud to carry the colours of a party that so ardently defends the need to take real measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and to achieve the Kyoto protocol targets through concrete actions, as I have said, such as putting forward this motion.

It is not enough to put on a green scarf at a leadership convention to suddenly become a great defender of the environment, as the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada did. We all remember that image. We said that all of a sudden he was a “green” man. His scarf was green, but as for the rest, we must look at the actions that have been taken.

It was under his stewardship, while he was Minister of the Environment, that greenhouse gas emissions in Canada increased by 24%. I am talking about the time since 1993 because, earlier, my colleague spoke of an increase of 27% since 1990. It seems to me that to date, since the Liberals came to power, we have had a 24% increase in greenhouse gas emissions while the Kyoto target, as I recall, was a reduction of 6%. It is a disaster, a monumental failure. Yes, you can put on a green scarf. That might protect you against the cold; but that does not make you a great defender of the environment. The voluntary approach of the Liberals is a failure.

What is there to say about the Conservative government? Elected just over a year ago, it presented its five priorities—as we all recall—but the environment was not one of them.

As agriculture critic, I often speak with farmers about all the things that are going on in the House of Commons. I tell them often that this government has five priorities. The priorities of the entire population of Quebec people and the entire population of Canada are not necessarily the priorities of the Conservative government. It talks of law and order, and of all manner of things, but not of agriculture or the environment. In campaigning for election, I often tell the people of my riding “Your priorities are my priorities, and I will transmit those priorities on your behalf to the House of Commons.” I cannot understand how a government can be so insensitive as not to grasp that the priorities of the population must be its priorities, because its members represent the population. They were sent here for a reason: to represent the population.

As has been said, with reference to the supporting survey, the public has long been prepared and long been aware of how important it is to deal with climate change. That, however, was not a priority for the government in place, the self-proclaimed “new government”. The new aspect was that the environment is not a priority. If something like that were a new product on the market, I can tell you that it would not exactly be flying off the store shelves.

As a result of the polls just referred to, of public opinion, of the work of the Bloc Québécois and the work of the other opposition parties—also needing to be mentioned—the Prime Minister has just added the environment to his priorities. High time too, considering this government was sworn in a little over a year ago. All of a sudden, they are saying the environment is a priority. I do not know how sincere this is. It is a bit suspect, particularly when it comes to actions actually taken to make the environment a true priority.

We still need to act, as other industrial countries have done. Germany and the United Kingdom come to mind. My hon. colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie is certainly in a better position than I am to talk about what is happening elsewhere, for example in Europe. I do know, however, even if I am less of an expert than he is in this area, that some industrialized countries have been able to meet the Kyoto targets after signing the protocol. So why not us? Often, one compares oneself to console oneself, but here in Canada, that is not at all the case. Political will is needed, to truly invest in the fight against climate change. That is what must be done. That is what certain countries have done.

Economically speaking, the recent report prepared by Nicholas Stern, the former World Bank chief economist, recommends that every country should immediately invest up to 1% of its GDP in the fight against climate change in order to avoid future economic losses that could exceed $7,000 billion world-wide. It is hard to even imagine such a figure. That is a sum 20 times higher than the cost needed to reverse the trends. So, let us reverse the trends, because that will cost a lot less than sitting here with our arms crossed and both feet on the brakes, as suggested earlier by a Conservative colleague, referring to us.

I think he was merely projecting. It is the Conservative government, rather, that is slamming on the brakes when it comes to the environment.

Why can other countries do it, but not ours? Yet, Canada ratified the Kyoto protocol in 2002. As I was saying, both the Liberals and the Conservatives have failed. Their inaction is shaming us on the international stage. Quebec has a plan. It needs $328 million more, which the Liberals and Conservatives refuse to give.

Quebec wants to implement a plan that suits its situation. If the federal government is serious about its desire to reduce greenhouse gases, the Bloc Québécois calls on the government to take a simple but effective action: vote in favour of this motion and give $328 million to the Quebec government.

[Farm Management and Operations, February 6th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge an innovative concept implemented by the Collège d'Alma. This is the first training technology showcase in Quebec and Canada. This will be a showcase for technology transfer in agriculture, combined with the efficiency and use of renewable energy.

The Collège d'Alma is offering a technology program in farm management and operations and is equipped with a teaching farm. Within the next two years, this dairy farm will be updated to incorporate innovative energy saving technologies.

This project will be used as a teaching and applied research platform by incorporating the use of renewable energy and the development of energy potential related to farming activities.

Students will become familiar with wind and solar energy and with geothermics. It goes without saying that this project will have positive spinoffs for Quebec producers, who are always at the forefront. The Bloc Québécois wishes much success to this wonderful initiative.

[Criminal Code, February 6th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, if I understand the question correctly, the member is saying he does not understand the meaning of encroachment.

I have been speaking for the past 10 minutes. My colleague from Laval spoke for 10 minutes before that. So for a good 20 minutes he has heard what we mean by provincial jurisdiction. In addition, the Constitution provides for the distribution of powers. On this matter, for example, it is pretty straightforward. It comes under provincial jurisdiction and so the federal has no business sticking its nose in. No further explanation is needed, I believe.

Obviously, that does not mean that the federal government must not examine this situation, but it should perhaps occupy itself with what concerns it. We were talking about poverty earlier. In 2000, child poverty was supposed to be eradicated in Canada. It was an election promise for 2000. Here we are in 2007, and the rate of poverty among children is higher than it was before the famous promise was made. This is an area of federal jurisdiction. The federal government could therefore attend to that.

This particular matter concerns the provinces. Our legislation in Quebec, for example, is such that this type of business hardly exists at all. So we do not need the federal government telling us what to do and how to do it and that certain conditions would determine whether it could be done. That does not work in Quebec.

[Criminal Code, February 6th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I will not question the statistics on poverty or the increase in poverty that the hon. member was just mentioning. I agree that indeed, there is increasing poverty and that is unfortunate. I too have mentioned the data from Statistics Canada on this.

I hear this question from the NDP often. They ask Quebec, which already has a law or legislation that is better than or equivalent to what is in the rest of Canada, why it refuses to allow the same type of legislation to apply elsewhere in Canada. We are not refusing to allow other places in Canada to legislate in order to counter, or at least limit, the actions of these businesses. What we are saying is that Bill C-26 is an encroachment into provincial jurisdiction.

I do not think this a concern for the NDP. It has always introduced centralist measures. That is the NDP's choice and its right. If people want to elect those members to defend that in Ottawa, that is one thing, but often those members will say that such and such measure needs to be imposed on the provinces because that is what should be done.

In Quebec, we do not operate that way. That would not be accepted and we would not be here in this House if ever we dared operate that way.

Every province is free to legislate on this and so they should. However, it is not up to the federal government to dictate what to do and impose its veto, or to put conditions on this jurisdiction since it belongs to the provinces. That is the problem.

[Criminal Code, February 6th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I must thank my colleague from Laval who has just spoken with such eloquence that it will be difficult for me to follow her example during the next 10 minutes. She has very well described the debate and exposed the problem with Bill C-26, while defending the interests of Quebec, of Quebeckers, and of those unfortunate Canadians who are obliged to rely on these kinds of payday loans across the country, but not so much in Quebec. I will have an opportunity to explain that during my remarks.

I am pleased to be able to speak to Bill C-26 for the purpose of condemning it. This bill amends the Criminal Code with respect to a criminal interest rate and seeks to regulate the payday loan industry.

While on the surface it may appear praiseworthy, the bill contains what is known as a hidden defect. I imagine that among the 308 members of this House, there are some who know people who have bought a house and discovered after several weeks or months that the vendor had hidden, knowingly or otherwise, some defect in the house. In the end, those people realize that they should not have paid so much for their home. That is what is known as a hidden defect.

It is the same thing with this bill. Upon initial examination, it appears to be good. However, we notice that there is a serious problem that, in my opinion, has unfortunately been seen over and over, ever since the Bloc Québécois has been here in this House, and which probably also existed before our arrival. Mr. Speaker, during your time in office, I imagine that you have heard these arguments all day long throughout the parliamentary session. Once again, it is an invasion by the government into the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces. There is the problem. There is the hidden defect in Bill C-26.

Obviously, for political reasons, they will say that we are in favour of this kind of industry and that we do not want to help unfortunate people to escape from this trap, and so forth. Let it be clearly understood that we recognize the need to attack this new form of exploitation of the most vulnerable workers. We do not dispute that goal; far from it. However, why should the federal government control what Quebec already does well and, in fact, does better than what the provisions of this bill would bring about?

That is the problem. As my colleague from Laval said earlier, the Prime Minister, because of his veto, can decide to impose whatever he wants in this regard on Quebec and the provinces. Obviously, this is a serious problem.

As I said, there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to regulate the payday loans industry more closely; it is a good thing. However, the way in which it is being done is still problematic in our view. It must be pointed out that the provisions in the Criminal Code and the Interest Act do not at present specifically regulate this new form of loan, which actually came into being in the 1990s. This is quite a recent practice. It is therefore reasonable for this Parliament to want to put some thought into the question. This is a fact of life—these payday loans we are all talking about—that is affecting growing numbers of western countries, including Canada.

Today—and this was undoubtedly less common in the past—a person can have a regular job, a wage, but still be living in poverty. This is a fact of life today, even in 2007. People have to use the services of these companies, whose practices may be questionable, including the high cost of loans, unfair collection practices and high interest rates. This what a person has to deal with when they do business with this kind of company. When someone starts to use the services of this kind of business, they are often taking the first step in the vicious cycle of poverty. It is not just an individual who suffers as a result; an entire family may suffer from this situation.

In my opinion and the opinion of the Bloc Québécois, the government should put some thought into this phenomenon rather than infringing on the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces. A few days ago, my colleague from Trois-Rivières said that she had looked into this matter. She also gave an excellent speech on Bill C-26 right here in this House. She cited statistics released by Statistics Canada, from which we learned that there are in Canada, at present, 1.3 million more poor households than there were 25 years ago. The government has failed to stem this epidemic of poverty, if you will forgive the expression; the opposite has occurred. The fact that there are growing numbers of poor people is one of the consequences of the proliferation of this kind of business. In Canada, 1,300 of these companies have been identified. There are very few in Quebec.

That is why we have to make a distinction, with what is happening in Quebec at present and the reason why we do not want the federal government to stick its nose into what is happening in Quebec. Quebec has succeeded in stemming the problem of the proliferation of these businesses.

There is also the Canadian Payday Loan Association, with 22 member companies that currently manage 850 service outlets throughout most of Canada. At present, there are none in Quebec.

In the past there has been this sort of company in Quebec, as elsewhere. There used to be even more of them in Quebec. That is why at some point the police, with the help of the Office de la protection du consommateur du Québec, decided to look into it. It was a chance to clean up these companies, especially those involved in loansharking, and they disappeared. That does not mean that pawnbrokers do not exist. Unfortunately, again because of poverty, people are forced to take their precious belongings—a television set, a sound system or even their children’s sports equipment—so that they can get a bit of money to buy groceries some weeks. It is easy to imagine what happens because of the high interest rates if the money is not paid back. People unfortunately lose their valuable item.

This still exists and it is too bad. We should look into it and also make sure that these people are not involved in usury.

Quebec has already put in place some tools to oversee and regulate this sort of industry by means of its Consumer Protection Act. Under this law, the interest rate must be indicated in loan contracts, and all charges are included in the annual rate. Charges for opening a file, for forms and so on cannot be added on. Jurisprudence has also established that annual rates of interest above 35% are excessive. I would remind the House that the current Criminal Code sets this rate at 60%. In Quebec, it is set at 35%.

The first thing Bill C-26 does is enshrine the definition of payday loan in the Criminal Code. The exemption mechanism—and that is where the problem lies—is twofold in design. First a province must be designated by the federal government in order to be exempt from the application of section 347 of the Criminal Code and section 2 of the Interest Act so that they do not apply to its payday loan industry. To be designated, the province must apply and meet certain conditions, those infamous conditions. Such designation may also be withdrawn unilaterally when the conditions are no longer met to the liking of the federal government. Another example of Ottawa knows best. This is the precisely where the problem with this bill lies. The member for Sault Ste. Marie said earlier he did not see any problems with this bill, but this is where there is encroachment on the provinces’ areas of jurisdiction.

I would like to remind the members that the Bloc Québécois is defending the Government of Quebec's position. Quebec's government believes that by making an exemption subject to compliance with the conditions, the federal government is clearly encroaching on a provincial area of jurisdiction. As I said earlier, Quebec is already regulating this industry without having to report to the federal government. I would like to remind the members that Quebec's maximum interest rate is 35%, not 60% as set out in the Criminal Code.

We are against Bill C-26. That said, we are not against it because we support payday lending, a business that, unfortunately, is proliferating almost everywhere in Canada but less so in Quebec. That is not the case at all. We are against it, but we believe that Quebec has the right to regulate the commercial practices of businesses within its jurisdiction, and that the federal government should not veto this in order to apply the legislation.

The federal government certainly has the power to set the maximum legal interest rate. However, it does not have the jurisdiction to regulate industries' business practices.

In closing, thanks to its Consumer Protection Act, Quebec already regulates this industry and prohibits unreasonable practices. That is why we find that Bill C-26 offers nothing new or good for Quebec, which is already equipped to deal with this situation. We do not need the federal government's veto or its encroachment on another area of jurisdiction. Enough is enough.

[Agriculture and Agri-Food, February 1st, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, on June 13, the House of Commons adopted a Bloc Québécois motion which set out specific criteria for limiting massive imports of milk proteins. On October 12, the Minister of Industry promised that the government would fulfill its responsibilities while the Secretary of State (Agriculture) confirmed that January 22 was the deadline. Both were quoted in La terre de chez nous.

Does the minister realize that his irresponsibility is costing milk producers $250 million per year, some $125 million since last June?

[Agriculture and Agri-Food, February 1st, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, in the matter of milk protein imports, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food had promised that the issue would be resolved by January 22. Mediation between processors and producers was inconclusive and there is every indication that the minister is buying time and does not intend to settle this matter.

Can the minister tell us what he is waiting for to take action? His attitude thus far indicates that he has no intention of making a decision, as he had promised before negotiations and mediation failed.

[Agriculture, January 30th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, that is what the Minister of International Trade is saying today. However, in black and white in The Western Producer, just before the holidays, he said that the supply management system was putting the brakes on agricultural trade.

Is the real position of the government the one published in the December paper, or the one heard today out of the mouth of the minister? Farmers have the right to know who is telling the truth.