Larry Bagnell

[Iraq, October 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I have a short non-partisan question just for clarification.

At the present time and with the present facts is there any difference between the Canadian Alliance position and the position of the United States?

[Speech from the Throne, October 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoyed listening to the very thoughtful speech of my colleague and was delighted that he was sensitive to older people in his constituency. He made a good point that I think we basically agree on, in that Canada's productivity level is lower than the United States. Where we disagree, though, is that there was no action by the government. I want to update him in case he is not aware.

This year the government has produced two major initiatives, one at HRDC and one at Industry Canada: the skills agenda at HRDC and the innovation agenda. I think there have been 34 conferences across the country. A rural conference has been held on this and there will be a national conference on innovation. As the member knows, innovation is how we will close that productivity gap.

I know my constituents in Yukon are so aware of this that they are actually now doing a strategy for Yukon, as well as a national strategy. I am sure the member would agree that this important and very detailed step to increasing productivity is what we are both after. Is he aware of this having occurred in his constituency? If so, has his constituents had enough time for input? If he is not aware of this, would he like us to get him the documents?

[Iraq, October 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, as chair of the foreign affairs caucus I, with many of my colleagues, have a great interest in assuring that Canada does as much as possible through diplomatic channels to find a resolution to the situation in Iraq.

Could the Minister of Foreign Affairs please tell the House what methods he has taken to date to defuse the crisis?

[Iraq, October 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for those questions. As I tried to explain in my speech, first, I am not totally happy that we have a large enough coalition and, second, enough information.

I am glad the member spoke about information in his opening remarks. I am not satisfied that we have enough information in this area from the United States and others. I stated that I hoped for a much grander coalition, especially those countries in the region who would be most threatened by, for example, the extended use of missiles that Iraq has and is producing so that it can send these agents even farther. If we had a number of those nations who are most threatened on side, we would have a much more convincing case to make those decisions.

I will be waiting on the information that I am talking about from a broader coalition before making any ultimate recommendations. However, until that time I will certainly be urging the government to do everything in its power, and all the other levers outside military power, to resolve this situation.

[Iraq, October 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome this debate as do others. As many have said it is a very important topic that we are debating tonight. It is great to see the minister here throughout the debate. Hopefully his officials are watching the debate on television because this is the purpose of the debate. There has been a tremendous input of positive ideas from all parties on all sides of the House. Hopefully the officials will sift out the good ideas that come from the debate and present them to the minister.

In essence the parties agree on most of the tenets of the present situation and how to solve the present crisis. We would all prefer a peaceful solution. We all want weapons inspections in Iraq. We all want the inspectors to have unlimited access. We would all like Saddam Hussein to voluntarily destroy his weapons of mass destruction and the components thereof. We want a multilateral decision of the United Nations if Canada is ever to go to war. We all think it is despicable that Saddam Hussein has attacked and killed at least 5,000 of his own people with chemical weapons.

It is probably obvious that I support the government's position and the position of virtually everyone who has spoken, that we should do everything in our power to achieve a solution to this crisis peacefully. If Canada is to be involved in military action it should be under the rule of international law and through the United Nations.

As chair of the foreign affairs caucus I have talked to many of my colleagues about this. The vast majority of my colleagues, if not all, definitely want us to do everything within our power through a peaceful means to try and achieve a solution in Iraq. Certainly there is goodwill in the world where we can use those various levers.

All of us are delighted with today's decision of an agreement between Iraq and the UN inspection team. I am sure we all hope and pray that this works out, that the inspections are completed and any weapons that exist are destroyed.

In the sad case that an agreement does not occur, then the only thing we are debating tonight is the nature of the dangerous path to war that Canada should take. A decision not to attack Iraq could lead to thousands of deaths and the maiming of innocent people. The decision to attack Iraq could also lead to thousands of deaths and the maiming of innocent people. We need to give very serious consideration to how we proceed. This is why this debate tonight is so important.

My constituents have positions on both sides of the argument. I want to ask some questions. I do not have the answers. There are wise leaders in the House who could provide some answers. I want to ask a number of questions from both viewpoints that people should ask of this serious and complex situation before they come to the final determination if things unfold in an unfortunate manner.

First of all, if Iraq does not allow inspections or destroy its weapons of mass destruction and if we do not attack, what would we feel if our friends, family and acquaintances and other Canadians are killed by one of these weapons as Canadians have been killed by terrorists in the past? How could we live with ourselves after knowing from tonight's debate from the JIC, public domain information, previous inspections and other documents that it was proven or likely that Saddam Hussein attacked his neighbours and his own people with chemical weapons?

What if it was found that Iraq had refurbished its sites for chemical and biological weapon construction, as the independent International Institute for Strategic Studies found at one time that Iraq could assemble a nuclear weapon within months of obtaining fissionable material from foreign sources, and that it had sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa, in spite of having no active nuclear program that would require it?

For those who do not think it is possible for Iraq to develop chemical or biological weapons, they should know that Iraq used mustard and nerve agents against its own people, killing an estimated 5,000 people.

One chemical weapon was mustard gas which when inhaled damages the respiratory tract and causes vomiting and diarrhea. An attack can damage the eyes and mucous membranes, the lungs, skin and blood-forming organs.

Not only did Iraq produce 2,850 tonnes of mustard gas but 210 tonnes of tabun, 795 tonnes of sarin and cyclosarin and 3.9 tonnes of VX. The latter nerve agents can all produce muscular spasms, paralysis and death.

There were also biological agents. In 1991 Iraq had produced 8,500 litres of anthrax, which we know can cause fever, internal bleeding and death. It produced 2,200 litres of aflatoxin which can cause liver inflammation, cancer and death. In pregnant women it can lead to stillborn babies and children born with mutations. Do we want this to happen to Canadians? Do we want this to happen to anyone? It had produced 19,000 litres of botulinum toxin. This is one of the most toxic substances known. Paralysis leads to death by suffocation.

Since 1998 it is likely that Iraq has recalled its nuclear scientists to the program and tried to procure both uranium and centrifuge equipment. It is estimated that a nuclear weapon is between one and two years to production. No one wants another Hiroshima.

There are other questions that must be asked. What if we do attack? If we do not have a grand coalition in this consensus what effect will a unilateral attack on millions of supporters of Islam around the world have? What will their future actions in the world lead to?

I have received a number of e-mails. As I said my constituents are split. A number are against Canada attacking at this time. This one is from a young man. I will read a couple of sentences:

I write to you in order to express my opposition to possible Canadian support of the use of military force for the purpose of regime change in Iraq. Any military measure taken in Iraq could trigger a much greater conflict with the wider Arab world and certainly increase the likelihood of future terrorist acts. I don't know if my note to you will make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, however I figure it can't hurt.

I would like Alex to know his note has been heard in Parliament and that every time a constituent writes I read it and it has an effect.

As was asked tonight by many speakers, why this particular tyrant and this particular dictator of the many in the world and why now? What is this policy of pre-emptive strikes? Canada, U.S.A., Australia, France and the U.K. all have powerful weapons. What is to stop someone from one day doing a pre-emptive strike on any of us? How many innocent civilians would be killed in such an attack? If we work to replace an unpopular regime who is to stop people in other nations replacing unpopular regimes in Canada or the United States one day? Where is the evidence from the United States on the terrorism links and the Iraqi weapons that the U.S. government could use to convince more of its own citizens of the clear and present danger?

We should be ever mindful of how we tread on the sovereignty of others lest they choose to tread on ours.

I am sure we all hope for the saving of thousands of innocent lives that the present inspection that has been agreed to today goes ahead and is successful. If it is not I have posed a number of questions on both sides of the situation that should be asked by our leaders and carefully thought out. All the detailed ramifications must also be thought out before we decide on this very serious course of action.

[Resumption of debate on Address in Reply, October 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I do not see a problem with that. I and some of my colleagues lobbied hard last winter for more research moneys from the granting councils for the north and for rural universities, small universities like the member's university. Historically that has been a problem for people like myself and members from rural constituencies.

[Resumption of debate on Address in Reply, October 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his excellent question. I think increasing free trade is one of the areas in which our two parties generally agree.

At the end of my speech I talked about the benefits of increasing free trade for the less developed nations, which is outlined in the throne speech. It will allow the least developed nations to become less dependent on foreign aid. It will boost their economies and provide them with incomes with which to buy our products.

The member is probably not aware that I was director of the international trade centre program in Yukon before I had this job. I have always been a big supporter of increased trade. Reducing the tariffs at borders between countries, including in the northwest, of course, reduces costs for all of us, especially for poor people who cannot afford to pay those costs at the border. It gives poor people reasonable access to products at lower prices. I was also delighted to hear in the last budget about all the money going toward improving the borders subsequent to September 11.

Before September 11 there were a number of border irritants and problems. It has been one of the remarkable success stories over the last year. I am sure the Alliance has contributed to keeping the emphasis on our borders. However we have made progress in improving those borders. The Prime Minister and the Minister for International Cooperation announced funding of $300 million for the busiest border crossing in the world to increase our goods and services crossing the border. I am sure the member will be happy about that.

I will do anything I can to support increased trade into the northern regions. Prince Rupert is outside my jurisdiction, but in my region I am supportive of having competitive airline services. I have been using a new service to ensure competition. Businesses will now have the option of getting their products out at more reasonable rates which will enable them to compete with the rest of the world.

[Resumption of debate on Address in Reply, October 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I want to do two things in my remarks today. First, I want to talk about the benefits to my riding contained in the throne speech, and second, I want to refer to some comments made by members of the opposition parties. I listened to them carefully this morning and I would like to respond. Unfortunately my remarks on the benefits to my riding will take up virtually all of my time, but I will save my other remarks for question period and when the parties ask their questions, I could then comment on their comments.

I was delighted that a number of things in the throne speech will be very helpful for my riding. Last Friday I spoke at a conference and listed a few things I supported and I was very happy that these items showed up in the throne speech.

The first item was support for the headstart program which is very important to help in early childhood development. It has been very successful. I have been lobbying for a long time for an increase, and I was delighted to see it included in the throne speech.

The second item was support for small and medium size businesses to help them use emerging technologies. Everyone heard the loud applause this morning when the Prime Minister mentioned this type of support.

The third item relates to improving the regulatory environment. At the conference on Friday, a number of Yukoners came forward and said they wanted improvements in the regulatory environment. I told them I was very supportive of that and I was absolutely delighted to see it in the throne speech.

I was also very happy to see air quality included in the throne speech. Her Majesty's loyal opposition was happy as well because it suggested there should be help relating to pollution. Members might have missed it, but this item was included in the throne speech. I was delighted to see support for improving air quality because one of the Yukon medical associations lobbied me on that particular item.

One of the items that received the most applause was the 10 year infrastructure program. I was delighted to see that item in the throne speech because the last two iterations of the national infrastructure program have been very successful in the Yukon. They have helped all communities in some way or another. I was delighted to see it extended for a 10 year period. Local communities need to have a long time frame in which to do reasonable and logical capital planning. This will provide them with that. This is probably a very popular item with all parties across the country. The NDP in its response to the throne speech mentioned the importance of infrastructure.

I was delighted to see the extension of the supporting communities partnership program. This is another item that I had lobbied hard for. It is a program that supports homelessness initiatives.The Yukon has a very efficient and active committee which has done a number of innovative projects with that program but it realizes the job is not yet done. We were hoping the program would continue. I am delighted the minister responsible for homelessness, who has been doing a great job, was able to make that occur.

A number of initiatives to help first nations people were also included in the throne speech. Because my riding has a significant percentage of first nations people, perhaps 24% of the people in the Yukon, it will receive tremendous benefits from this.

Initiatives were included for new tools to deal with FAS. There were initiatives to improve support for skills and training of first nations people by increasing the funds for Aboriginal Business Canada. Money was included for early childhood intervention. There was support for health promotion and disease prevention in first nations communities. There was support for aboriginal children with special learning needs as well as support for aboriginal culture.

A very important item for my riding was support for the training of aboriginal people to take advantage of coming megaprojects in the country. Of the two or three mentioned, the northern pipeline was also included. The northern gas pipeline going through the Yukon with Alaska gas is the biggest industrial project in history, perhaps in the order of $20 billion, of which Canada will receive half of the construction benefits as the study showed. We are providing support for helping northern people and aboriginal people be trained to take advantage of this project and the thousands of person years and millions of dollars of contracts. That is great news for my riding and for the people of northern Canada.

I think all parties were equally happy that there was a big emphasis on health care in the throne speech. The Romanow commission is doing a very detailed study. It will come up with suggestions and recommendations for improving the health care system, which we have all agreed is a challenge.

In the meantime, as the Bloc emphasized, the Canadian government is continuing to move ahead. It is dealing with emerging risks in the health care system. It is going to work on dealing with new technologies in the health care system and adding more health prevention into the health care strategy for Canada. This is very important. In my riding health care advocates have long emphasized the importance of prevention in the health care system. We are very excited to see that. A national drug strategy is linked intricately to health care and we were delighted to see that in the throne speech.

There are also a number of other areas with which I do not think any of the other parties could quarrel and which I believe they support. They include increased support for things like literacy and research, and reducing the barriers in the workplace for people with disabilities. I was delighted to see that because just this week I had a discussion with a constituent on that specific topic.

I am also happy that the throne speech mentioned that the government is going to put into action the accord it has with the voluntary sector. I have spoken a number of times in the House about the importance of volunteers to our society in Canada and the great contribution they make. I will be glad to see us move forward on that front.

I think everyone supports the increase to the child benefit, a very important element in the throne speech. This will help all Canadians, especially those children in poor families. How could people argue with other items in the throne speech such as helping families with gravely ill children or dealing with increased drug addiction?

As chair of the foreign affairs, defence and international cooperation caucus, I was very happy that the throne speech emphasized Canada's support for the rule of international law and for the United Nations, while maintaining that the United States is our closest and best ally. I was happy to see the reaffirmation of the fact that there is going to be a review of foreign affairs and defence policies to put them in line with today's world which has changed dramatically since the last throne speech. Coming out of those reviews, as from the Romanow commission, will be recommendations that we can act upon to deal with the problems that have been carefully and logically studied to respond to today's needs.

Another area is international cooperation and foreign aid. I can imagine that my colleagues on that committee are delighted about the increases announced to help the poorer nations. There are a lot of items in the throne speech to help poor people in Canada but this extends to the poorer people in the world. Another item which does that, and which members may not mention in the House too much, is that we are going to eliminate tariffs and quotas for most products for the least developed countries. When they try to attain self-dependence to get off foreign aid and do something for themselves such as making products and services, they will be able to sell them to the western world if we can reduce those tariffs and quotas to give them a chance to succeed.

In closing, I am also delighted in the way this is going to be accomplished and resourced. I was delighted to hear that we will be doing old spending in new ways. The Prime Minister emphasized that we are still going to have a balanced budget and that the debt to GDP ratio will continue to decline so there will not be an extra burden on our finances. Yet all these people in areas I have outlined relating to children and poverty, the environment and health will be helped.

This will be a worthy chapter in Canada's history. A country is judged, as we have heard many times before, not by how it helps the wealthy but by what it does for those most in need. This will be a very worthy final chapter in the Prime Minister's 40 year history in the House of Commons, with the support of his cabinet colleagues, in the area of assistance for people who should be helped in Canada.

[Canada Pension Plan, June 21st, 2002]

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, I realize the House always gives tremendous leeway in debate, which I often use myself, but really, we are debating an amendment to the Canada pension plan and the member has barely mentioned it once. He is talking about the auditor general. He is talking about inquiries. He is talking about $7 billion. He is talking about crown corporations. He is talking about Canada Post. I would appreciate it if he could add some light to the actual amendment we are debating.

[Canada Pension Plan, June 21st, 2002]

Madam Speaker, because we had this frivolous last moment amendment, could the hon. member outline or summarize for the House what this important bill would do? The amendment would have pretty well emasculated or blocked the passage of this important bill that would help protect the investments of poor people in the country.