Larry Bagnell

[The Budget, December 12th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, the short answer is, no.

I have a great deal of respect for my colleague. I think we are probably in general agreement on debt reduction. I too think that when the resources are available, when we are not in a terrorist tragedy like this one and when the recession has not reduced government taxes and individual taxes so that we do not have much room to move, we should pay off as much debt as possible.

We are a very wealthy country. We have a lot of resources. Our people all across the country are very talented . Why should we be paying interest to someone else? That money could go to social programs to help the poor, to help education and to help health care.

I am not concerned about this particular budget . Under the circumstances and with what we had to deal with, I am very happy.

The hon. member asked about my constituents. None of them have expressed any concerns recently, that I can remember, about what the government has done since it came to power, with the incredible removal of the deficit, which was a very difficult challenge. All Canadians had to sacrifice and contribute toward removing the deficit and begin paying off the debt for the first time in years. In the last election platform, we had the biggest first year debt reduction proposal of any party. I think my constituents were quite happy with that.

[The Budget, December 12th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague from the Northwest Territories and the strong position she made earlier today. I will not repeat all the excellent points but I did want to say that the three northern MPs have been working very well together for those people north of sixty. Over the last year we have co-operated in a lot of initiatives, along with our three colleagues from the other place, and we have moved the northern agenda forward. A great deal of credit goes to my colleague from the Northwest Territories.

I am happy to rise today to talk about things in general related to the budget because general things affect all Canadians and they affect my constituents in the same way.

Madam Speaker, I also want to mention that I will be sharing my time with the member for Elgin--Middlesex--London.

I was happy to see a number of things in the budget, especially in the environment under which the budget had to be prepared. Everyone knows there were immense security demands on the government by Canadians but also because of the recession that was accelerated by September 11, that there were reduced revenues, less business taxes and less individual taxes. Governments have a lot less room to manoeuvre. Under these difficult situations, it still managed to put in a number of good things related to the environment and poverty that I will speak about later. I was very happy to see those things in this particular budget.

Everyone knew this would be a security budget. After September 11, I think every member of parliament in the House received phone calls, letters and talked to constituents who expressed fear, fear for themselves and fear for their families.

I cannot help but remember going to the U.S. embassy just down the street and looking at the tens of thousands of flowers and cards and reading the cards from children who expressed the fear they were experiencing.

I am sure all Canadians realize that steps had to be taken and the only thing we are debating today is the nature of those steps and the amount of those steps.

However, $7.7 billion worth of steps were taken in the budget for things such as air security, borders, the RCMP, intelligence and defence. What I was really happy about in those expenditures is that a number of them went for one of the things that I have been pushing very hard for which is the border.

The expenditures for the borders serves the second objective of the budget, the economy, which of course was hit hard by the recession accelerated by the events of September 11. As the finance minister mentioned today, a lot of us were pushing for improvements to the border at a number of committees.

I was delighted to see $1.2 billion in the budget dedicated to borders and a number of other things: for example, $58 million to speed up passage of pre-approved persons at the border; $107 million for specialized equipment; $135 million for multi-agency integrated border teams; and another $600 million, in consultation with provinces, territories and municipalities, for border infrastructure. Of course some of these things were needed before September 11. Once again this is an incredible boost to the economy: improved highway access at aisles to the border, processing centres for commercial vehicles and even the soft electronic infrastructure needed to help facilitate trains and trucks to get across the border.

I am happy the security money went not only for security but for those items that could really improve the economy at this important time. For my own riding, it was very important that the border and air security was emphasized and dealt with because tourism is often the biggest private sector employer in my riding. It is absolutely essential to tourism that people feel safe in the air and when they cross the borders into Canada.

I want to mention a couple of things that were not lost under these stringent economic conditions and reduced resources that the government had to work with in preparing this budget. The first one is health care. As everyone has heard a number of times, we had the biggest transfer in history last fall when the Prime Minister and the premiers agreed on what health care would need over the next few years. Over $23 billion was allocated to not only health care but to early childhood development.

Another thing that was not lost, which a lot of people were worried would be lost, was the biggest tax cut in history, the $100 billion in tax cuts. At a time like this that will give a tremendous boost to the economy. In conjunction with that, we are now experiencing low interest rates. Although that is monetary policy, not very much could do as much as those two items working together to stimulate the economy in a time when the whole world is in a recession accelerated by the terrorism attacks. I also want to emphasize that most of those tax cuts go to lower and middle income people.

The thing I mostly wanted to emphasize today, over and above those security items that everyone knew had to be expended, is that the government could still keep on with its agenda of moving forward on a number of things that are very important for people, especially the poor and especially on the environment.

Obviously we could not go as far as we wanted to go because we had to make security expenditures, but they have not been forgotten and we have still made progress on the most important items. A perfect example, and something that is very important to my riding, is the $185 million for aboriginal children. They are probably close to the most vulnerable in our society and I lobbied hard for that before the budget. I was absolutely delighted to see that was not lost under all the other constraints.

Who could argue with the support for students with disabilities or the very large increase in foreign aid?

After September 11, I, and I imagine most MPs, heard from a number of constituents who encouraged Canada to keep up with and even increase its investment in foreign aid because of the needs in Afghanistan and in other parts of the world. I was delighted with the huge increase in our funding to Afghanistan of up to $100 million and also the $500 million Africa fund.

Another item of spending that has been mentioned is the money for apprentice mechanics, which a lot of MPs have talked about. I think everyone agrees with that. Something else in the budget, which a lot of us have talked about for a long time, is help for lifelong adult learning. This will help people in today's economy to keep up with the changing technologies.

I was also delighted to see support for culture. Culture is a big economic factor in my riding. Cultural industries are big and they are growing and to see the government's continued support for that was important.

I was really excited to see the element of wind energy, which is something else I have championed in the House before. It is very important for reducing our greenhouse gases in a positive way. In the north, I think Yukon has been leading. We have two windmills on a mountain beside Whitehorse and they are working very well. Hopefully this will increase wind energy in Canada. In fact there is a provision for microhydro, which we also have in the Yukon, and even woodlots.

In the area of support, I was excited to see support for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities because they often provide inventive things for the budget. A number of their proposals related to the environment. Even though we are under incredibly tight financial constraints, the $25 million green municipal enabling fund and the $100 million green municipal investment fund were actually doubled in the budget. I know the people I shared this weekend with in Dawson City, the FCM board of directors, will be very excited that their programs have been carried on, even their brownfield redevelopment strategy.

Finally, as has been said many times before, it is exciting to see the $2 billion in infrastructure addition. Who could argue with that? Anyone who does argue with that should go to rural and northern Canada where people have no sewers, no fresh water and no indoor water. Before the infrastructure program was brought in, some people were still using wood stave pipes for water or sewer.

I hope we can keep the budget debate in context. A reporter I ran into on the street on budget night put it clearly. He said that it was too bad the terrorists caused the demands on security. From the frustration we see in the debate, I know all of us would rather have spent that money on something else.

However, the budget was done in the context of a new world, a world we did not create, a world we did not want and a world with elements of evil that we did not bargain for, but now we will have to deal with and defeat.

[Competition Act, December 10th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I was also a member of the committee and I supported the bill and the amendments. The amendments improve the bill tremendously.

I support the bill but perhaps for a different reason than the member who just spoke. I support it because I believe competition is the foundation of capitalism, a free democracy and the best way to build an economy.

The amendments to the bill ensure that competition exists. When we get into virtual monopolies or oligopolies in this type of system, there may appear to be conditions when competition is not working the way it should. The provisions in the bill, such as private access, help to ensure that competition will be there to build a vibrant economy.

I am sure Canadians would not object to ensuring competition in the airline industry these days and that they have good choices in that industry.

I am delighted that the member referred at length to the deceptive competitions that we all get in our mail. Hopefully the bill would eliminate a lot of those so that if we get a notice of winning something we will have actually won something and it could not possibly cost us more to collect the prize than it would be worth.

My concern is mostly with the elderly. They get these notices in the mail but they do not know what they are. They think they have won something but it ends up costing them through the mail, through the 900 numbers or through whatever. I am delighted that all the parties have support this aspect of the bill.

I congratulate my colleagues who brought forward the amendments, such as the hon. member for Pickering--Ajax--Uxbridge in the great work he has done on the bill and on in bringing these issues forward.

[Volunteerism, December 5th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, today, December 5, is International Volunteer Day for Economic and Social Development and the official close of the International Year of Volunteers.

It is a great day for Canada because at 1 o'clock this afternoon at the General Assembly of the United Nations the hon. minister of public works and the secretary general of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, unveiled a special International Year of Volunteers sculpture based on a coin designed by artist Anthony Testa of the Royal Canadian Mint. The sculpture will be displayed at the UN volunteers headquarters in Bonn.

Volunteerism has helped to increase literacy, protect the environment, stimulate cultural activity and promote co-operation with developing countries. Last year 6.5 million Canadians gave over a billion hours of their time volunteering.

In keeping with the 1985 UN resolution I encourage all Canadians to volunteer their time next year. On behalf of all my colleagues in the House I applaud all the thousands of Canadians whose volunteer efforts this year helped make the world a better place.

[Canada Elections Act, December 4th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague across the way for not only this evening's debate but his continual efforts to improve democracy. I think that is healthy. If he will allow me some deference, I will quickly comment on a couple of things other members said tonight which were slightly off topic.

I agree that we should spend the limited time we have in the House trying to dwell on positive things as much as possible. However I want to reinforce what one of the members said about the electronic voting list. I hope Elections Canada can improve its method so the list is more accurate. This past election we had problems with that as well.

About a week ago a constituent demanded that I pound on the desk and demand that we improve our behaviour in the House. I will let him know that I have done that today.

Many members have spoken as the previous member did about the decorum in this place. I hope we can have reasoned debate and that our battles are only with words.

A couple of members spoke about committees. I want to make a couple of personal points on committees. When the members of the Library of Parliament ask their excellent research questions, it would be helpful for me personally if I could have the answers to those prepared by the department. I would then have another view over and above the answers given by the witnesses. As well, if the department gets a chance to provide detailed comment on amendments in advance I think it would improve the quality of debate at committee.

The final point I want to make relates to what the last member spoke about, private members' business. If the rigour of preparation for some private members' business were increased, the research, the process it goes through and the checks and balances before it gets here, I think the reception for some private members' business would be more positive. I am not speaking about this particular bill. However, I do think there would be more respect for private members' bills and more confidence in voting for them if they went through the same level of research and public consultation that other bills do.

I will close by thanking my colleague once again. I have a great deal of respect for the work that he does in the House and for bringing forward yet another bill.

[Landmines, December 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, last Friday night was the Night of a Thousand Dinners when thousands of people around the world held events to fundraise for the removal of landmines.

Landmines kill and mutilate over 8,000 children every year. The worst thing about them is that they continue to kill innocent people long after the war is over.

Landmines rob people not only of their lives but also their freedom. In countries like Bosnia and Herzegovina, where recreational activities flourished in the pristine mountain landscape, people can no longer hike, ski and picnic in many parts of the country. Children cannot play in the forest or run in the grass. Lives are limited to cement and pavement. People risk their lives just to walk through a graveyard to mourn their relatives who were killed in the war. In many countries simply going out to fetch water can be a deadly activity. Landmines kill not only people but their spirit as well.

Landmines affect the economy by preventing agricultural activity and reconstruction after a conflict has ended and hindering tourism and peacekeeping efforts. It only costs $3 to plant a landmine and $1,000 to remove one. I take this moment to thank all those who participated in the numerous events across the country.

[Yukon Act, December 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a couple of comments and clarifications.

First, I am glad the last two members mentioned the mines closing in Yukon in 1982. That was our biggest economy. That was similar to closing down the wheat fields in the prairies, the fish on the east coast or lumbering in B.C. If I am seen back in the House asking for economic development money to solve the problem, members will know why. The softwood lumber problem also hurt Yukon badly.

I have a question about provincial status being a baby step. Transferring all the land and resources of an area as big as countries in Europe I do not think is really a baby step. The only thing left that has not been transferred is the crown attorney. Basically, Yukon has 99% provincial powers now.

The vetoes the member talked about had never been exercised even before we took this step of responsible government. I am not so worried about that. Some of the powers of the commissioner under clause 68 expire after 10 years.

Just in the spirit of co-operation I would like to recall that the party of Erik Nielsen in the past also helped lead us on the road to responsible government in Yukon.

I think the member was the last speaker, so I would like to conclude with one comment. It was great to hear the co-operation from all parties in the House. They are sensitive to the needs of northerners in the riding which is the farthest away from this place. They understand the needs of Yukoners and offer them the same type of responsible decision making and opportunities that Canadians have across the country.

This is a great day for Yukoners. It is a great day for the north. I thank all my colleagues for their tremendous co-operation.

[Yukon Act, December 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it was great to hear about that sense of peace because I get that sense of peace when I drive from the Tantina trench down into Dawson City, and, as Robert Service said, “It is a stillness that fills me with peace”.

The hon. member mentioned placer mining and Yukon is probably the only part of the country where placer mining is such a major industry. Some of the members may not know what placer mining is, but it is part of the magic and mystery of the Yukon. Could the member explain it to the members and people of Canada? It is another great asset of my riding.

[Yukon Act, December 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, before I ask my question, I want to comment on a couple of items that came up during the last three speeches.

I want to comment on the length of the bill so people will understand its structure. The transfer agreement, which contains a lot of detail, is about half an inch thick. The main portion of the bill has about 21 pages. There are also 67 pages related to the transitional functions and amendments to other bills.

The bill would not transfer the actual title to land to the Yukon government. It would be the management of the land. Three governments are involved in our land claim negotiations: the first nation governments, the territorial government and the federal government. That will always be the case.

Since I became a member of parliament, the question I have been asked most often has been whether I enjoy it. I always find that question funny because I did not come here for a good time. On a personal note, which I did not want to include in my technical speech, when I attended committee and the members of all parties were so unanimous and so enthusiastic about pushing this forward, including the members who already spoke, it was emotional for me. In a place where the watchwords are controversy and conflict, the sense of co-operation, support and how things should work gave me a sense of pride in knowing how things can be brought forward positively.

At the beginning of my speech I said that along with the freedom to make decisions comes the responsibility to be wise stewards of our magnificent lands. Over the years the NDP members have been excellent stewards in relation to the environment.

Because my colleague has lived in Yukon, could he explain a bit more the magnificent environment and our responsibility to be stewards of it? If I were to explain it, as I have many times in the House, it would appear to be in my own self-interest as I would be talking about my own riding. It would be great to hear someone else describe to the people of Canada such a magnificent place and the reasons we have to preserve it.

[Yukon Act, December 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, Yukoners stand today on the threshold of a dream that many have had for decades, the possibility that northerners would be able to make their own decisions on their own land in the north. With the freedom to make those decisions comes a responsibility for us to be wise stewards of our magnificent land for future generations.

It is very gratifying to stand before the House today to advance Bill C-39 at third reading surrounded by hon. members from all over the country who clearly recognize its merits. As pleased as I was by the positive response to the legislation received from all parties at second reading, I was even more delighted by the tremendous reception the revised Yukon Act received when it went to committee. It was most rewarding to have earned the unanimous approval of committee members present and to experience the tremendous spirit of co-operation and support for Yukon from all parties in the House.

I want to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development and Natural Resources and all my hon. colleagues for their strong support and valuable insight as this bill has worked its way through this place. This legislation is a testament of what we can achieve together when we work in partnership.

I would like to thank the minister for all the time and effort he has given to Yukoners, especially for land claims and for the devolution transfer agreement. I also thank him for allowing me this historic opportunity to present the bill both at second reading and at third reading, speeches the minister would normally give. I reserve my greatest praise for the people of Yukon, whose patience, hard work and persistence for years in pursuit of a fair deal for territorial residents have resulted in this historic legislation.

One of the strengths of this devolution initiative and Yukon Act is that at the beginning of the process several years ago, the time was taken to ask the people of Yukon what they wanted. In fact, one of the most persuasive arguments for supporting this legislation is that the modernized Yukon Act and the devolution transfer agreement that underlies it are the result of several years of extensive negotiations. Yukoners have outlined their expectations, something which has made this initiative even stronger.

The premier of Yukon told members at committee “We appreciated the opportunity to participate in this process and despite the occasional frustrations on either side, the final text is all the better for this collaboration”.

We have worked closely with our partners in Yukon to make sure that we would address the needs and interests of various parties and to ensure that the act truly represented local priorities. We recognize that people at the grassroots level are far closer to both the challenges and solutions so we attempted to reflect their ideas in this legislation which affects their lives and their livelihoods.

Before we began drafting the bill, the Yukon government carried out extensive public consultations in Yukon. Based on the input gained from these consultations, it made a number of recommendations. The bill in front of us is based upon this body of knowledge. Successive drafts of this bill were discussed with representatives of the territorial government and the first nations through the years 2000 and 2001.

During the negotiation process on both the transfer agreement and the bill, these representatives in turn provided progress reports to their constituents. The draft bill was also shared with the Gwich'in Tribal Council and the Inuvialuit Regional Council, as both organizations represent first nations which have signed land claims and have interests in Yukon.

Public opinion polling conducted by Ekos in April 2001 confirms that a large majority of both aboriginal and non-aboriginal residents support the transfer of specific authorities from the federal government to northern governments.

This is one of a number of devolutions of provincial-like powers to the Yukon territorial government that have occurred over the years. As in any such transfer, there will always be those who wish it went faster or slower, with more powers or fewer powers. About half a dozen individuals or groups have approached me in Ottawa with such suggestions.

Most of these suggestions, such as the fact that several first nations would have preferred to have their land claims completed before devolution, were noted during second reading and/or in the premier's comments before committee. I will review some of these points.

One individual brought forward the following suggestions: finalizing the offshore boundary in the Beaufort Sea, transferring title to all public lands, ensuring more clarity of the commissioner's role after 10 years and providing more consultation.

One first nation that would have preferred its land claims to be settled first is the Kaska band. It has elaborated on this with several points.

First, it does not believe the package before parliament is consistent with the agreement between it and the territorial government concerning devolution.

Second, it believes the agreements provide that devolution would not apply to traditional Kaska territory in Yukon without the band's consent in the event devolution is completed before its claim is completed.

Third, it believes the Yukon government has not provided safeguards for the protocol of lands and resources in the traditional territory for Yukon first nations and transboundary claimant groups.

Fourth, it believes that because of the Rupert's Land and North-Western Territory order of 1870 the Government of Canada cannot transfer responsibility before a Kaska claim is settled over lands in traditional Kaska territory without upholding its fiduciary responsibility to protect Kaska interests.

Finally, the Kaska band feels that in conjunction with the Yukon government's involvement in transboundary claims as defined in the umbrella final agreement it would be much harder to obtain a fair settlement of its land claim.

The French community would like to ensure it is acknowledged and its rights are protected. One day perhaps the federal government could provide a stronger acknowledgement and recognition of the municipal order of government in Canada.

We are working with first nations and the Yukon government to settle outstanding land claims as a matter of highest priority. Moreover, due to the types of concerns I have outlined, the devolution transfer agreement contains measures to protect Yukon first nations who have not yet completed land claims agreements. There are numerous safeguards and conditions to ensure the rights of first nations would not in any way be compromised.

First nations would directly benefit from the package being considered today. While first nation interests are reflected in numerous provisions in the transfer agreement and the bill, among the most significant accomplishments of the initiative is its commitment to closer co-operation and enhanced communication between the Yukon government and first nations. The initiative would strengthen intergovernmental relationships in Yukon.

Decisions about sustainable development that are made in Whitehorse instead of Ottawa would invariably be more sensitive and responsive to the concerns and priorities of different groups of Yukoners. Minority populations in the territory would have their interests safeguarded under the legislation.

For example, Bill C-39 upholds the protection of minority linguistic rights in the Yukon. The Yukon government recognizes its obligation to provide communications in both of Canada's official languages.

According to the devolution transfer agreement, after the transfer, service delivery in both official languages of Canada must satisfy the criteria set out in the Official Languages Act.

The Yukon government has made a commitment to incorporate the standards of service consistent with the Official Languages Act into territorial legislation governing lands and resources management programs.

The legislation would be a fair deal for all affected federal employees. Under the terms of the devolution transfer agreement each of the affected 240 federal employees working for the northern affairs program in Yukon would receive an offer of employment from the Yukon government no later than six months prior to the date of devolution.

The offer would be for a position whose duties and responsibilities match as closely as possible those of the person's federal position. The salary of any federal staff member who accepted a position with the Yukon government would be equal to the employee's base federal salary plus the environmental allowance and cost of living allowance components of the federal isolated post allowance.

The terms and conditions set out in the devolution transfer agreement not only meet but in some cases exceed the requirements of the alternative service delivery type 2 transfer the federal government negotiated with federal employee unions.

While the initiative has carefully balanced the rights and interests of stakeholders, what is most exciting about it are the unprecedented opportunities it would create for Yukoners.

Once approved by parliament, Bill C-39 would transfer significant new lawmaking powers to the Yukon legislature. It would transfer to the Yukon government land and resource management in the territory including forests, mines, minerals and water rights. This would give Yukoners real decision making authority over matters fundamental to the well-being of the territory. This long awaited development is welcomed by a majority of Yukon residents.

After devolution takes effect on April 1, 2003, the Yukon government will have the necessary financial resources to carry out the work. It will receive the funds currently utilized by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development to carry out the responsibilities plus significant one time funding to ensure a smooth transition.

In addition, the agreement would ensure the territorial government received a net fiscal benefit from the new resource revenues it would collect. The Yukon government would be able to keep the first $3 million raised from resource revenues with no impact on the territory's formula financing grant. These revenues would be over and above the proceeds the territorial government already receives from an earlier agreement on oil and gas.

Bill C-39 acknowledges that the Yukon government has taken on increasing levels of responsibility and proven its capacity to administer territorial affairs. The bill recognizes that there is responsible government in Yukon and that it has a system of government similar in principle to that of Canada.

Bill C-39 would place resource management decision making in the hands of northerners, the people most knowledgeable about local conditions and most affected by the consequences of those decisions. These powers would rest where they rightfully belong.

This is in keeping with our government's conviction that the key to building strong, prosperous communities is to foster local solutions to local challenges. It is equally a reflection of our government's commitment to renewed federalism.

We have before us a progressive and necessary piece of legislation that deserves the House's endorsement. It is progressive for Yukoners and all Canadians. There is widespread support for the agreement. The changes before us have been long in the making and are long overdue.

I hope I can count on the support of my hon. colleagues to help us move the legislation through to the Senate for final approval. We can then contribute to our common objective of building a more self-sufficient and prosperous Yukon that can make an even stronger contribution to our great Canadian federation.