Larry Bagnell

[Supply, October 29th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from the Bloc mentioned a letter received from a constituent. I want to go on record as saying that I got a number of e-mails from Yukoners who also supported the provision of grain and other support to the people of Afghanistan and that region. I am sure they will be happy today hearing the support from the government and many members of parliament. We could continue providing that aid and increasing it in the future so that we remove some of the root causes of poverty and help those who are most destitute.

Would my colleague care to comment on anything he did not get a chance to say in his speech?

[Claim Settlements (Alberta and Saskatchewan) Implementation Act, October 22nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, as a new member, I would like to know is why this particular member always asks me questions. I remember the first time I made a speech he asked me a question about farming and I am probably the least likely riding in the country to have farms. I thought he was on my side but this is a particularly good question.

I hope I have answered most of the questions that the opposition parties brought up. They made some good points. They supported things and brought up some concerns. I tried to elaborate on those points and I am anticipating that the bill will go through committee very quickly, especially since I happen to be on that committee. We are dealing with a number of other serious issues and complicated bills some of which are coming from my riding in the Yukon.

The most important point for people to understand is that because the land will be transferred to a reserve there could be economic considerations. As all the parties have said, it will be very beneficial for first nations. Hopefully most of this land has some good economic potential. Rather than waiting for the long protracted process of getting approval to do things and getting the certainty for the land, the businesses and the first nations can start right away and keep it economic.

That will help both the business and the first nations. From the first nations’ side, this land is in limbo because of all sorts of bureaucratic steps. For the businesses, especially if they already have interests on that land, they can continue to get quick revenue from that land without an interruption and without the uncertainty. They will just have a new landlord and they can continue to take in funds.

I hope it is brought up in that context as sort of an administrative bill but it has some very sweeping benefits that are so needed to develop the economies of first nations.

[Claim Settlements (Alberta and Saskatchewan) Implementation Act, October 22nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I will begin by answering the questions from the opposition parties. I think I can deal with virtually all of them, which I hope will speed the process through committee.

I was of course delighted to hear the member from the coalition talk about the futility of dredging up the past. I eagerly look forward to seeing how the Alliance and the coalition bring that sentiment into question period today.

The NDP and the Bloc were basically in support of the bill and outlined some of its good points. Several questions came up, mostly from the official opposition, and I will address some of those points. The first point was about providing the public with more and better information on some of the concepts. My colleague from the NDP did a very good job of that. For people who may not have been aware of them, he explained some of the provisions in the bill.

The opposition member mentioned that one definition that is not covered is specific claims. Just so members know, these are items that come up over and above the regular treaty obligations, which may have come up over the years as isolated incidents that do not hold up under the Indian Act and that we have to deal with.

The second point the member for the official opposition mentioned was related to municipal claims. He specifically mentioned SARM, but SARM has been involved along the way with these claims and has been dealing with the government in a good working relationship. SARM is quite familiar with the claims. Although it is not an issue in Alberta, there have been claims by municipalities, school boards and other taxing authorities for alleged loss of tax revenues due to establishment under a claims settlement.

However in Saskatchewan the tax loss issues were dealt with in two ways. For Saskatchewan, the treaty land entitlement framework provides that Canada and Saskatchewan shall contribute equally to a fund which is to be used to compensate rural municipalities. It also compensates school boards for tax losses experienced as a result of reserve expansions under that agreement. For the specific claim settlements which the member for the opposition mentioned, tax loss is largely the responsibility of the government of Saskatchewan by virtue of a bilateral agreement signed in 1999 between Saskatchewan and Canada. This is well in hand. I hope the member will be happy that it has been dealt with.

The last point he raised is related to mineral claims. He is right when he says that in some cases mineral claims will revert to the crown for the benefit of the first nation. That is good because that will help first nations economic development.

That is all I can remember of the member's points. If there were any others perhaps the member could bring them up in question period, because if all the questions have been dealt with hopefully the bill will go quickly through committee.

There was a point brought up by the NDP and the coalition that related to the powers of the minister, in particular the powers to allow the minister to make these decisions as opposed to having an order in council. This was requested by a number of first nations and also will speed up the process of this administrative function so that they can get on with their economic development with these third party interests.

The last point I want to comment on relates to the pipeline. It was mentioned by the coalition. Because the Alaska gas pipeline would go through my riding, I am delighted that this was raised. There would be great benefits for aboriginal people through employment and perhaps in taxes in different parts of the north, but in the Northwest Territories and Yukon there are different legal regimes, different treaty regimes, so it is not that relevant to those areas.

However, if it goes through Alberta through the natural gas pipeline which would bring Alaskan gas from Prudhoe Bay through Alaska and the Yukon, and if it happens to go through a reserve, it could possibly apply and once again would help first nations speed up their economic development with those added assets.

This is important legislation not only for the first nations in Alberta and Saskatchewan but for all residents of those provinces and indeed for all Canadians. I would like to take a few minutes to explore the issues of how changes proposed in Bill C-37 would foster economic development in the affected first nations communities. I want to focus on this because it is a fundamental argument in favour of the proposed legislation.

I think hon. members on all sides of the House would agree it is vitally important that aboriginal communities from coast to coast to coast have opportunities to become more fully engaged in the Canadian economy. A strengthened aboriginal economy would help to address the many difficult issues that face first nations and Inuit communities across the nation. That is not to say that progress has not been made already. I can cite dozens of examples of successful aboriginal companies. In fact, there are more than 18,000 aboriginal owned businesses in Canada, ranging from small home based enterprises to multimillion dollar companies that do business around the world. Many of these are located on first nations reserves where they not only provide essential goods and services but are a vital source of employment and revenue.

The aboriginal community is diverse and vibrant. Aboriginal businesses operate in all sectors of the economy. They include resource industry firms, transportation and construction companies and retail and service outlets. They include manufacturing operations, management consultants, computer companies, arts and crafts enterprises and environmental and cultural tourism businesses.

However, more needs to be done to foster economic development in aboriginal communities, particularly on reserves. Despite the progress that has been made over the past couple of decades, aboriginal people continue to be among the most economically disadvantaged of all Canadians. There is still far too large a gap between the employment rates among first nations people and among other Canadians.

First nations still face special barriers to economic development, including legal obstacles, lower levels of education and lack of business experience and capital. These barriers are affecting social conditions in reserve communities. They are affecting families and children, and the effects are not positive ones.

What does all this have to do with Bill C-37? In my mind, having a sufficient land base upon which to engage in economic activity is the key to achieving prosperity in first nations communities. Since the claim settlements that would be facilitated by this proposed legislation concern reserve expansion, these settlements are an incredibly important vehicle for supporting aboriginal economic development. Treaty land entitlement and specific claim settlements do more than address past wrongs of first nations people. They pave the way for a better economic future by providing a secure land base and, in some cases, a financial package that can be used by the claimant group to fund economic development activities.

As consideration of the bill progresses, we will hear repeatedly of the legal and technical obstacles in the current additions to reserves process, which are impeding progress in implementing settlement agreements. These obstacles have resulted in an enormous backlog of commitments to add lands to reserves in Alberta and Saskatchewan, a backlog that is certain to grow unless action is taken to address some of the basic underlying problems. This is the objective of Bill C-37.

The proposed legislation would expedite and facilitate the additions to reserves process in two ways: first, by authorizing the minister rather than the governor in council to confer reserve status on lands and, second, by introducing new and better ways to accommodate third party interests in lands that are being converted to reserve status under claim settlements in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

I would like to consider three ways in which these elements of the bill would encourage economic activity in reserve communities. First and foremost, the proposed legislation would demonstrate to investors and others who engage in activities on lands proposed for reserve status that transactions can be concluded with greater predictability for both the first nation and third parties.

Hon. members can appreciate that certainty and stability are prerequisites for economic development. Regardless of whether an activity would be taking place in a reserve community or in downtown Edmonton or Regina, Bill C-37 would provide businesses and investors in Alberta and Saskatchewan with certainty of tenure for any third party interest they might hold in lands to be added to a reserve. It would also provide the certainty businesses need to negotiate new commercial arrangements with first nations communities.

Equally important is that the changes proposed in Bill C-37 would significantly reduce the amount of time needed to process lands into reserve status. Dealing with third party interests under the current process is problematic and time consuming. Sometimes it takes up to two years or more. This would all change if Bill C-37 becomes law. Because lands would be selected and added to reserves more quickly, the lands themselves and the revenues generated from any third party interests preserved on them would contribute to more immediate economic and social progress in the community. In fact, the pre-designation powers included in Bill C-37 would allow first nations to begin to enjoy these economic rewards even before the selected lands have been granted reserve status.

Finally, I support the bill 100% because making the accommodation of third party interests easier would give first nations access to a broader range of land that has development interests or potential. I think the member from one of the opposition parties mentioned that positive point.

In other words, these changes would facilitate the selection by first nations of commercially viable lands rather than lands that are simply unencumbered by existing interests. As first nations acquire better lands we can expect to see increased economic activity in these communities.

Although this proposed legislation may appear to be minor in the overall scheme of government activities, I do not think we should underestimate its impact. The vast majority of land selections under claim settlements in Alberta and Saskatchewan would be affected by one or more third party interests, whether that be a right of way for an access road, resource rights or a leasehold. Bill C-37 would have the potential to come into play for virtually every one of these claims. With the likelihood of even more settlements in the years ahead, the legislation's importance to the additions to reserve process in Alberta and Saskatchewan would only increase over time.

Obviously I am very supportive of the proposed legislation. I believe Bill C-37 would contribute to improved quality of life in first nations communities throughout Alberta and Saskatchewan. It would contribute to a growing economic base to support first nations self-government and it would help first nations communities further distance themselves from economic dependency on government.

Bill C-37 is yet another step the government is taking to live up to its commitments in “Gathering Strength”, including our commitment to support strong communities, people and economies. It is another step toward a better future for aboriginal people in Canada.

With these important benefits in mind, I would encourage hon. members to support the proposed legislation so it can proceed quickly through the House and to the other place.

[International Co-operation, October 17th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken in the House about the importance of helping the poor and the Afghan refugees in the aftermath of September 11, and my constituents agree.

Canadians know that our security and the long term security in the region depend on the people of Afghanistan building a secure, peaceful, truly democratic society that cares for all its citizens.

Could the Minister for International Co-operation say what Canada is doing to help achieve that international goal?

[International Actions Against Terrorism, October 15th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, I am glad my colleague mentioned the issue of and the concern about unity in parliament, because the main effort behind my speech tonight is to present a viewpoint where we in fact can be unified against this common enemy.

The one point I would like to make tonight, or at 1.30 in the morning now, is that we are involved in not one but two campaigns against terrorism. The battle we are fighting is on two fronts, not one. Every party, every member of the House of Commons and most Canadians can support at least some elements of one of those campaigns. For me that is quite uplifting, because originally on September 11 I was worried and distressed when we were presented with the clear and present danger for Canada and for the world that we could not come together. However, with this understanding I can see that we are all working together in condemnation of terrorism and for a solution.

What are these two campaigns, these two fronts that we are fighting on, these two battles that we must win? The first one is simple: Murders were committed and the murderers are still at large. These murderers are adults. They have the same free choice we all have and they choose to murder.

As we do with all murderers in Canada, we will leave no stone unturned until they are caught and brought to justice, and just as it is illegal in Canada to harbour criminals, anyone who harbours these criminals will be committing an offence. I have not heard anyone in Canada suggest that we do not pursue murderers. In this we are united. It is only on the methods of capture that we have different views.

However, even in this we are united in many goals. Every member of the House of Commons wants to do what is possible to avoid innocent civilian casualties. Every member of the House agrees that we are not attacking any religion or any country. We are only disabling the weapons of two small groups of people in Afghanistan, the terrorists and another small group that forms the totalitarian Taliban regime, which is hiding these terrorists and oppressing the Afghan people.

We all agree that this task will take all the tools available, not just enforcement assets. It will include new anti-terrorism legislation, vigilance at our borders, enhanced intelligence operations and strengthened security forces and abilities but all with careful regard to any ramifications for our human rights.

Finally, we all agree to the international aspect and its importance. Terrorism occurs in most countries in the world, which is why we all appreciate this great international effort whereby NATO and the United Nations came on side right at the beginning and one of the largest coalitions in the world was built to fight the battle of terrorism.

That is the first battle we are engaged in and must win: to catch the murderers and their terrorist co-conspirators around the world.

The second front, the second battle, is to ensure that once these terrorists are caught and brought to justice and their training camps destroyed, we will try to reduce the chances of this ever happening again. We must try to change a world that can create so much hate that people would give their lives to massacre others.

How would we do this? We would do it by reducing the environments that breed terrorism. What are these environments? What are these root causes? The poverty of refugee camps and those who have nothing to lose is one of them. We are working on this and have done so for decades with foreign aid and organizations, trying to help people around the world. We have to continue to do that and to do more.

That is not all, because as we know some of these terrorists who took part in this event were quite wealthy. Therefore, we have to work to reduce the lack of education. We have to work to promote different views and problem solving. We have to work to eliminate religious intolerance in the world. We have to work to create a world where there is an interdependence of economies, where everyone is participating in the economy and everyone benefits from its success.

We do not know what all the causes are. That is why I am encouraging us to spend more resources and do indepth study of what breeds terrorism. Then, after study, we can strategically target our humanitarian aid so that we can use some of it in advance and not have to use it in the aftermath of a terrible tragedy.

I hope with this new understanding that we have these two campaigns and that we can all support at least one element of one of these campaigns that we are all fighting together a common enemy. In this respect, I am very proud of my constituents in the Yukon.

I was on an open line show for an hour last week and heard a wide diversity of opinion. No one was in agreement. Many were for peaceful solutions while others were for military solutions and strategies. There is a great divergence and no common understanding. What I was proud of was that as people talked no one tried to preclude other people from making their contribution to solving this problem.

The last thing I would like to speak about tonight is peace. It is noted how much Canadians love peace. Why not? We have a beautiful country and environment in which to raise our families, but, I might add, none more beautiful than my own in the Yukon. As the great Canadian poet Robert Service put it, “It's the beauty that fills me with wonder. It's the stillness that fills me with peace.”

Why would anyone want to leave Canada to go to war against terrorism or anything else? No one would. That is why Canadians do everything in their power to achieve peace. For years Canadians and their organizations have reached out to the poor of the world to combat poverty that creates strife. If that does not work, we try to discuss, mediate, arbitrate or negotiate the problem away.

If battles are engaged, we try to get between the adversaries as we have done so many times as peacekeepers all over the world. If that does not work, if Canadians or other peace loving people are murdered and terrorists infiltrate our soil, we are fearless in battle to regain peace.

Just as we are the Canadians who fought for peace at Dieppe, Hong Kong, Holland, Ortona, Korea and Normandy, we will engage in this campaign against terrorism on both these fronts and we will win. We will regain the peace that Canadians love so much for our children and their children.

[Terrorism, September 25th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of Transport please tell the House what steps are being taken to screen explosives at airports to prevent terrorist attacks? How can we ensure that security measures are being maintained?

[Petitions, September 24th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition from the citizens of Yukon from the supporters of Falun Gong who are opposed to the torture and murder of the members of that sect who are simply standing for truthfulness, compassion and tolerance. The petitioners would like Canada to set up a rescue team to help support these people and free Falun Gong practitioners who are now in prison.

[Walk of Hope, September 21st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, as a former president of the United Way, it gives me great pleasure to inform the House that at noon today a Walk of Hope will take place. We are walking in memory of the victims of the tragedy of September 11. We will leave from the Centennial Flame and will cross the Interprovincial and Portage bridges, covering a route of five kilometres.

We ask that people wear red, white and blue and carry Canadian and American flags. Please come and walk to show support and solidarity with all those who have been affected by this terrible tragedy.

I want to thank the United Way committee for organizing and leading this demonstration. I want to thank the many volunteers who will collect donations for the Canadian Red Cross Society relief effort and I encourage people to donate generously.

Let us stand and walk together in this demonstration of our common stand for peace, justice and humanity.

[Canada-U.S. Meeting, September 20th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, I will make two quick points with the first being some feedback from a couple of my constituents who have a fear of the ramifications of war, a fear of the creation of more terrorists by harming innocent citizens and the great advantages of peace in solving the problems of the world.

On Tuesday, September 11, the world was unveiled to a great new dark beast, a complex beast that requires complex solutions and a beast that lives in cells in many countries of the world and stealthily moves between them undetected. I hope the Prime Minister can sift out of these three days of debate the wisdom required to come up with the complex and correct solution to deal with that beast.

[Attack on the United States, September 17th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my colleague from York West.

As most members are aware, when the attack was made on Washington I was standing very near the Capitol building. It was certainly grim to be in the centre of an attack on the symbols of our democracy, our liberty and our freedom. It was not an attack on the U.S.A.; it was an attack on the entire free world because in those buildings were people from many religions, many cultures and over 40 countries.

In Canada the ramifications spread to the farthest riding in the Yukon, which is mine. In Whitehorse a Korean Airlines plane escorted by military jets landed and they were not sure if it was hijacked and there was a lot of commotion and fear. I would like to thank those people of the Yukon who helped ease that situation.

I would also like to thank the Gwich'in people who were in Washington with me, the farthest community from this House, fighting for their survival, ironically as we are now all fighting for our survival. I want to thank all of the people who supported us in Washington and New York. I want to thank the survivors of the people on the last plane who may have diverted it from crashing into the buildings we were in.

I also want to thank and commend the courageous firefighters and police of New York. I also take this opportunity to extend that thanks to firefighters and police in Canada and around the world because they put their lives forward daily for our safety.

When we came back on the bus from Washington I was never so happy to see the Peace Tower standing strong. We should never begrudge our contributions toward our symbols of freedom and liberty. They are so important. However, even if the Parliament Buildings had been levelled, the terrorists would not win because liberty and freedom live in the hearts of Canadians. They will never take that away.

Our motion today has three components.

The first one is sympathy and condolences. I do not think we need to say much more on that. Thousands of Canadians came to this building and signed the condolence book on the weekend, Canadians from the capitals, from Whitehorse, and various communities. I left my office here after midnight for the last three nights and every night there were people at the Eternal Flame in front of this building showing their respect for Americans.

It was an incredible scene at the American embassy, one which I will probably never see again. For the entire block the fence was covered with flowers, condolence messages and teddy bears. I estimated that there was over 15,000 bouquets. That is an incredible sign of support for our American friends.

I was so proud to be a Canadian and to be representing a country with so much compassion when I came out of the Parliament Buildings last Friday and saw on short notice 100,000 Canadians showing their compassion. For those of our American friends who want to know, it is the largest group I have ever seen on Parliament Hill.

The second part of our motion is related to catching the perpetrators. We have just witnessed 5,000 murders. It is inconceivable that we would ever use any less intensity to catch the perpetrators of those 5,000 murders than we use every day to catch the perpetrators of a single murder. Just as they use technology against us, we will use technology in catching them. That is one of the great strengths Canada can add. It is an advanced technological nation.

As one of my constituents wanted me to emphasize, and as has been stated before, our attack against the perpetrators is not an attack against any nation, any religion, any culture. It is only against a few dozen heinous criminals and terrorists.

Human beings, as rational as they are, can be over-affected by emotion. It can cloud their objectivity. Another strength that Canada can offer at this time is to help keep our friends in America on track as we chase the perpetrators so that there is as little threat as possible to innocent people or any other collateral damage.

When we crossed the border on the way back on the bus, it was very moving as people clapped to be back in the safety of Canada. However, the whole world is in fear because when people in the tallest buildings in the world in the most powerful nation in the world with the greatest military strength in the world can be made victims, then we can all be victims.

That is why the third and last part of the motion is the most important and most difficult: making the world safe for civilization.

As in any crime, catching the perpetrator is only the first half of the solution, because any crime is a symptom of conditions that will generate more terrorists and more acts of terrorism. We cannot overly criticize the intelligence systems in Canada and the United States. Obviously we have to make improvements in those systems. However, we live in a free nation and we refuse to give up those freedoms and civil liberties. In a free nation it is technically, physically and economically impossible to surround with military troops every vehicle, every building and every person. Our war has to be on the breeding grounds of terrorism so we remove the reasons that are so powerful that people would give up their lives to wreak this havoc and horror on other adults.

Do we enter this war on terrorism when it is said that Canada loves peace? That peace has been shattered by this act of carnage. What about the notes from the children at the American embassy that are fearful but want peace? That peace has been broken. I believe it is our responsibility to fight to get that peace back for those children and for their children.

What other option do we have? What if we do not engage the enemy? Do we just assume that the terrorists who have killed hundreds of Canadians on Canadian soil and on Canadian property over the last 30 years will just go away? I did not see a note after this event saying that they would not do this any more.

The knives, the weapons of terrorists for centuries gone by, have been replaced by the weapons of mass destruction by modern terrorists. It will not get any better. Those weapons will get more horrendous. As Winston Churchill said, “We do not have a week, we do not have a day, we do not have an hour to waste in engaging in a war on terrorism and the root causes of terrorism”.

This will be a difficult and courageous decision for Canadians, because courage has a cost. In retaliation it could be the cost of Canadian blood at home and abroad. It is an excruciating decision for Canadians, because they are making it not only for themselves but for their children. Five thousand people died this time. How many people will die next time if we do nothing?

If anyone in the House is weakening in their resolve to engage in the battle against terrorism, I just want to imagine them going home to their riding tonight, sitting down to a dinner and thinking of thousands of other people with dining tables in their communities that are missing a person.

America, we are with you, because this was the slaughter of innocent secretaries and office workers, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters whose only crime was to choose to live and work in a free country, a country that loves freedom, democracy and liberty as much as we do.