Mario Laframboise

[Supply, March 18th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to take part in the debate. First, I wish to congratulate my collegue, the member for Drummond and one of our finance critics, for her excellent speech on the fiscal imbalance and, among other things, on the Séguin commission and its report.

I am particularly glad to speak to all Quebecers who are listening today and, at the same time, to give information to Canadians. In a previous life, I was president of the Union des municipalités du Québec.Today, I want all Quebecers, all mayors, all councillors, all school trustees from Quebec to remember.

Canada, the federation we know, operates in a way that makes it hard for its citizens to find their way around the complex issue of taxation. The federal government collects its own taxes: the personal and corporate income taxes, the GST and the excise tax on gas; the province does the same thing and collects personal income taxes, corporate taxes, QST and excise tax on gas; the municipalities, as we all know, collect the property tax from the landowners. People also see their rent go up when taxes are increased. The school boards also collect the school taxes.

In this morass of taxes, it is hard for people to find their way about and understand the impact that it has. There is one thing I want to tell the House today: remember 1994. My colleagues explained it clearly, 1994 was the beginning of federal cuts in transfers to the provinces. This is clear. No one in this House can question that health and social transfers fell from 18%, or 18¢ per dollar spent, to 14% between 1994 and 2002.

This is a reality, and all those who had to administer budgets in the province of Quebec had to deal with the aftereffects. We cannot forget that school boards and municipalities are created by the Government of Quebec. They are the ones that must provide services to Quebecers.

All too often, we forget that the water that flows from our tap, residential garbage, wastewater, sidewalk and street maintenance, public transit, all of these responsibilities come under municipal governments. These powers were delegated to the municipalities. For example, when it comes to public safety, some municipalities have their own police forces, others use the Sûreté du Québec. These powers are delegated by the province to municipalities and school boards.

In 1994, mayors and city counsellors had to deal with the infamous Ryan reform, which resulted in a $200 million fiscal burden being transferred annually to the municipalities. They had to live with that and either cut services or raise taxes.

When we try to find our way through the complexities of the taxation system in Canada, we realize that the transfers from the province of Quebec to the municipalities were tied directly to cuts in federal transfer payments to the provinces for social programs, health care and education. To try to make up for the loss, the provinces had to rely on their creatures, the municipalities and school boards.

I pleased to be able to explain that today, and demonstrate to my former colleagues who are still mayors or city councillors that it is all too easy today for municipalities to negotiate with the federal government agreements on infrastructure. The federal government is trying to make up for its errors by bypassing the provinces.

It has decided to negotiate programs directly with the municipalities. Before this year, these tripartite programs were negotiated with the provinces. But from now on, with the infrastructure fund, the federal government will deal directly with the municipalities.

That is the reality. Once again, it is trying to make people forget about the fiscal quagmire in the Canadian federation. The federal government does not give back to each province the fair share it deserves. That fair share was demanded by all premiers and provincial finance ministers.

At recent meetings, the premiers and the provincial finance ministers unanimously called on the federal government to increase its contribution to health care, among other things, to the 1994 level, that is from 14% to 18%, or from 14¢ to 18¢.

This is an unanimous request made by the premiers and the finance ministers, despite the fact that an agreement was signed in 2000 by the provincial premiers. Of course, this solution is the lesser of two evils. Instead to getting nothing, they sign an agreement. An agreement was signed, but immediately afterwards, there was a meeting of the premiers and the finance ministers, where they asked that the federal government review its contribution through provincial transfers. This is the harsh reality of the Canadian federal system. This is what councillors, mayors and school commissioners must understand when the federal government does not transfer its fair share of health related costs.

Earlier, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance gave us the following answer when we asked him what he believed the federal contribution was. Let us remind the House that, in 1977, there was a federal-provincial agreement and tax points were transferred, that is, the federal government did not get into a specific tax field to allow the provinces to get into it. He was asked what the federal contribution in health care was in 2002. He replied that it was between 30% and 33%, or 30¢ and 33¢. That is what he said. This is the reality.

We are at 14¢, as the provincial premiers said. Of course, the federal government is getting into another field of taxation that it had agreed not to get into. This is virtual money. When you do not get into a field of taxation, you leave it to someone else. The fact still remains that there is fiscal imbalance. When the federal government says, and the parliamentary secretary tells us that he himself believes that the contribution is between 30¢ and 33¢, this is a hard reality. There is still 17¢ missing to achieve parity and for the federal government to contribute half of the expenses in health, education and social transfers.

In the meantime, if it does not happen, if this transfer does not happen, the pressure from the provinces will come to bear on municipalities and school boards. The federal government will then tend to try to bypass the provinces and try to deal directly with mayors and town councillors to score political points. This is why I am calling on my former colleagues the mayors and town councillors.

Do not fall for it. Our people, our constituents, Quebecers will not have increased health services if the federal government works out agreements with the cities to solve certain infrastructure problems or issues. This is not the way to go. The federal government must pay its fair share. This is a fact.

If ever it does pay its fair share, the astronomical $17 billion surplus in 2000-01 will dwindle to over nine billion in 2001-02. In spite of the repeated demands by the Bloc Quebecois, the Minister of Finance will not make an announcement. He wants to wait and see. We know it will be over nine billion dollars.

In the meantime, the federal government is accumulating surpluses and the parliamentary secretary even dared tell the provinces “You just have to raise your taxes. We are not responsible if you are unable to pay for health care costs”. This is the harsh reality.

We live in a federal system where the federal government decides on its own how much it will give the provinces. It unilaterally decides to transfer money. It does it when it sees fit, but mostly when it can score political points. Right now, it will not play politics trying to help the provinces deal with the health care issue. It is too expensive. It is trying to score political points by dealing directly with municipalities, those with big infrastructure programs or just by increasing—it is essentially what the minister of Finance said in his last budget speech—doubling health research.

They are doubling health research but they will not double their funding of health care costs. They will do more research but they will not invest in order for people to benefit from the results of this research. What is costly is not so much to do research but to pass on the results of the research to individual Quebecers to improve their health. The federal system does not allow that. As it stands today, the Liberal government is not thinking about Quebecers. It is thinking about scoring political points.

[Supply, March 12th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I will repeat what I said earlier.

We must always keep in mind that, at ports and airports, there are people responsible for security and then there are people who do other jobs. If the hon. member is asking whether we should ensure that the employees responsible for security are honest and do not have a criminal record, I say that there should be a committee or a national standard to ensure that all those involved in security—we know what the QPP, RCMP and other police officers must go through—at ports and airports should also be required to show that they have a perfect record.

We must always keep in mind what these men and women do. Therefore, it would be normal, in the case of those who are responsible for security, to have such a process, and we would agree with that.

[Supply, March 12th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, the issue raised by my colleague is quite relevant. To restore public confidence, we need to set up a new structure for port security personnel. It is wrong to broad-brush everyone working in our ports and airports.

For all those who have to enforce security measures, it would be normal and even acceptable to have the RCMP or CSIS create a committee that would bring together all the various stakeholders, including representatives from municipal, provincial and national police forces, with the consent of the unions involved. I do not think the port and airport workers' unions would disagree with that. They could even attend the committee proceedings. We should not do what the government tried to do yesterday, which is to exclude security personnel from the committee proceedings.

If we can work with the national, municipal, provincial and federal security authorities, with the workers' supervisors, I think we can come up with a policy that would raise the levels of efficiency and probity of security personnel at ports and airports.

[Supply, March 12th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague, the member for Saint-Jean, for having presented most of the Bloc Quebecois' position on the question of freedom and security. My colleague is absolutely right.

The great challenge for democratic society, following the events of September 11, is to try to protect our values and freedoms while guaranteeing security throughout the country and Quebec, as far as we are concerned. That was the great challenge.

The proposal moved by the Conservative Party and the coalition is to implement a national security policy.

If we look at what the government has on the shelf, Bill C-42, which my colleague from Saint-Jean spoke to so well, we see that this is a bill that violates our rights and freedoms, as far as we are concerned. When a bill allows the federal government to create military security zones without even asking the provinces for authorization, then it is a violation of the rights and freedoms of the citizens of these provinces and of Quebecers, who are our chief concern.

When ministers are allowed to declare special zones of intervention in areas comes under their departments' responsibilities—there are more than 12 ministers who could order this type of zone—and once an order is given, it need not meet the requirements of the Privy Council when regulations are passed, in other words, to test if it conforms to the charter of rights and freedoms, rights are being violated. So, ministers are allowed to issue orders which may contravene the charter, which would come into effect immediately and which could later be validated or invalidated depending on the charter of rights and freedoms. Many powers are being given to authorities and to ministers without the authorization of this House and without the authorization of the Privy Council, and at the same time, powers are being given to officials who advise the ministers. We saw what happened with the Minister of Health, who authorized expenses that breached the Patent Act.

This is the difficult reality, respecting individual rights and providing security at the same time. This is not clear in the proposal moved by the Conservative Party and the coalition.

We must remember—and this will allow me to get into one of the parts of their interventions, which is enhanced security in Canada's ports and harbours—and never forget that, in 1987, it was the Progressive Conservative Party that deregulated transportation throughout Canada. It is this party that entrusted port or airport authorities with the responsibility of managing security. It decided to entrust the private sector with this responsibility and thus ensured that the government would no longer provide money for security.

The Liberal government is using the same strategy. It talked about airline security. It decided to invest $2.2 billion over five years, but it chose once again to impose on users a tax of $12, or $24 for a return ticket. This tax has been condemned by all the travel associations throughout Canadian regions and by the whole airline industry. However, this is the strategy that the Conservatives had used at the time.

And we are supposed to believe them now? They want a new policy on security, but they never talk about the fact that it will take public money to really be able to have an integrated policy.

Nowadays, they rely on the famous Senate report. The Senate report was based on a 1996 analysis. They show percentages of port workers who allegedly have criminal records. However, when we look into this, we see that unions do not maintain a file on criminal records, nor does the employer.

So there is no structure in place to keep track of port workers' criminal records. The simple reason is that these people are those who are carrying out trans-shipment; they are not in charge of security. A Senate report informed us last week that there are alleged criminals among workers, while no port worker has been accused of trafficking or whatever in the last 20 years.

Once again, they are attacking workers. However, the great majority of them, in fact almost all of them, are not responsible for the situation. They are guilty of nothing at all. No port worker has been accused of traffic in the last 20 years. Today, the Senate is saying, “There is a lot of corruption, infiltration on the part of those who work in ports, the stevedores, those who do transshipments, but who are not in charge of security”.

Are we to blame the employees for a failure that began in 1987 under the Tories? That is what they have done. After the events of September 11, they accused the employees, those men and women who work in airports, of not having done their job properly. For decades now, year after year, there have been cuts to security services. The private companies was made to pay for that, and it turned to the lowest bidder. Well, we got what we paid for. That is the reality.

Nothing in the Progressive Conservative Party's proposal says that the government should invest some considerable amount of money, that it should increase the number of security workers in ports and airports. We should give them decent salaries and ongoing training.

There most certainly was no ISO security program for employees involved in either port or airport security. They have no ongoing training; there was no on the job training. Thought was given to it after the events of September 11.

This all dates back to 1987, with the beginning of deregulation. The administration of ports and airports was entrusted to the private sector. All the companies that would benefit from these infrastructures had to meet their costs, so obviously they opted for the cheapest, and this had the effect of providing less security. We know what happened as a result.

Today, efforts are being made to remedy this. National security policies are wanted. The Bloc Quebecois says again: if there is a national security policy, it must not encroach on the rights and freedoms so dearly won over the entire course of the history of Canada, and of Quebec in particular.

This is a challenge for a great government, which leads me to conclude that the Liberal Party will never be a great government. It has always governed full speed ahead, but what will always differentiate it from a great government is that it has never been, and will never be, capable of making the right decisions at the right time.

Once again, this is what the motion put forward by the Progressive Conservative Party and the coalition does. As an opposition party, they do not yet know how to move a real motion, which might have resulted in some money for the whole security issue, both in ports and in airports. Port and airport workers could then be given more responsibility, decent pay and appropriate training. It would ensure that all those working in security services would have a chance to live in a safe environment, with respect for individual rights and freedoms.

It is with regret that the Bloc Quebecois will be voting against the motion put forward by the Progressive Conservative Party and the coalition. In our view, this motion does not go far enough to protect individual rights and freedoms. Nor does it go far enough with respect to the contribution that should be made by the Government of Canada, which is building up a surplus in the billions.

In answer to the questions asked by the Bloc Quebecois yesterday, the Minister of Finance was unable to forecast the surplus for the period ending three weeks from now. We will see in a few weeks. He refused to answer the question. As we well know, the surplus will be over $9 billion. This amount, or at least a good portion of it, could have been used for such things as security, thus making it unnecessary to impose a $12 and a $24 tax on air travel, which will once again overtax the regions of Quebec and of Canada.

I repeat, when the government wants to discourage people from smoking, it increases tobacco taxes. In this case, it is increasing taxes on air travel. It creates a tax on air travel and thinks that it will encourage people to take the plane.

The Bloc Quebecois will therefore have no choice but to vote against the motion put forward today.

[Budget Implementation Act, 2001, March 11th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to address Bill C-49, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on December 10, 2001.

As the Bloc Quebecois critic on transportation, I will discuss the infamous tax on airline security. But I would be remiss if I did not take this opportunity to comment on the remarks made by the Liberal member who just spoke regarding the investments made by this good Liberal government, including in health research.

It was mentioned that the government doubled its investments in health research. This is fine, except that when it comes to finding new technologies to cure sick people and discovering new drugs for them, we must ensure that this is done through the universal medicare program that exists across Canada.

When the time comes to pay for the research conducted to help cure the sick—with the product of that research— it is the provinces that foot the bill. The federal government is only contributing 14% of health costs in the Canadian provinces. Such is the reality.

It is fine to double investments for research, but if the government wants to be logical in its approach, it should double its investments in health across Canada and Quebec. That would ensure fairness. Instead, the government is doubling investments for research in health. Again, that is fine, except that in a universal system, it is Quebec's social program that pays to treat the sick, to treat Quebecers who are in poor health, with the product of that research.

The federal government is not ensuring that investments keep pace. It has doubled investments in research, but it has not doubled their amount or their percentage in terms of health costs across Canada, particularly in Quebec. This is why all the Canadian provinces are once again unanimous in saying “the federal government only pays for 14% of health costs across the country”.

What the provinces are asking the federal government is very simple: to up its contribution to 18% in the coming years. But there is nothing in this budget in this regard. Do not try to find new money in all that is proposed in Bill C-49, the act to implement certain provisions of the budget. There is nothing in it for health related costs. Nothing has been increased. There is no indication that investments in health across Canada might be doubled.

I will continue more specifically with the measure that involves a tax, once again. In order to solve security problems—which is all very fine in itself—the government has decided to create a Canadian Air Transport Security Authority for the purpose. The decision was made to allocate to it a budget of $2.2 billion over five years in order to bolster security in airports across Canada. Obviously, despite a surplus estimated at over $9 billion—we shall see within a few weeks—the decision was made to create a $12 air travel tax for an outward bound trip, and $12 for the return half, for a total of $24, the famous 12-24 tax.

Taking this past weekend's newspapers—and I do not have any problem with doing so—more particularly a Canadian Press story of Saturday March 9, picked up in Le Droit , reference is made to the fact that “The air security tax will apparently bring in more revenue than is necessary”.

So, the decision has been made to create a tax that will bring in more revenue than is necessary. No studies have even been done. This has been proven in the House, because the Minister of Finance has been asked and has responded: “Given the urgency of the situation, we have not had the time to carry out an exhaustive study”.

Today, they are imposing a $24 tax that will bring in more revenue than necessary. What is more, an article in the Journal de Montréal on Sunday March 10 quotes the Minister of Transport as saying “The airlines should cut ticket prices”. The airlines had the responsibility for part of security—spending $120 million on it—but now it is the responsibility of the state. Quoting again from this article, “The Minister added, however, that any such decision should be left to the discretion of each carrier”. They will not, of course meddle directly in the administration of the airlines, but a tax will, nevertheless, be imposed, saying “It is up to the companies to lower the price of their tickets”.

This industry has undergone drastic drops in business because of the tragic events of September 11. Yet the federal government has never done anything to bail it out. Forget it, no help has ever been forthcoming.

Companies were compensated for the six days that airspace was closed, which is only right. Then they received a small amount of compensation for the increase in insurance premiums. As for anything else, that was it, nothing.

It was decided that free market forces would be allowed to operate. The result was the closing of Canada 3000 and cut-throat competition by Air Canada, which created subsidiaries, such as Tango, to try to shut down almost all other air carriers throughout Canada.

Free market forces were allowed to operate and Canada's sorely burdened airline industry was saddled with a tax which will not apply to all airports in Canada; we have drawn up a list. Twenty airports in Quebec will be affected, as opposed to 15 in Ontario.

I would like to read the list of airports in Quebec which will be affected: Alma, Bagotville, Baie-Comeau, Chibougamau/Chapais, Gaspé, Îles-de-la-Madeleine, Kuujjuaq, Kuujjuarapik, La Grande Rivière, La Grande-3, La Grande-4, Lourdes-de-Blanc-Sablon, Mont-Joli, Montréal (Dorval international airport), Montréal (Mirabel international airport), Québec (Jean-Lesage international airport), Roberval, Rouyn-Noranda, Sept-Îles, Val-d'Or.

All these cities in the regions will be stuck with a new tax. I can never say it often enough: when we want to discourage people from smoking, we increase tobacco taxes. The government has increased the tax on flying. It has created a new tax and it thinks that this will encourage people. It is even telling air carriers, “You should lower air fares. We did not help you when you needed help. We let free market forces operate, but now we are going to tell you what to do. We are going to tell you that you should lower the cost of a ticket by $24 so that passengers do not notice they are having to spend $24”.

I repeat, it is one surprise after another in the House. The Liberal government will never cease to surprise me. One day, Quebecers and Canadians will catch on.

One day, the government will have to account for its management. It is not true that companies can always be told what to do, how to operate, when the government is not investing a cent, in the airlines for instance. This is a real problem.

The federal government never once helped out this industry that experienced the heaviest losses in the history of Canada and Quebec in such a short time. It decided to charge users a tax to try to give a boost to business. Once again, it has the gumption to say in the House that it doubled health research, but at the same time, it did nothing to invest more in the health care system, in treatments needed by sick people. When we find a drug for a someone who is sick, we have to be able to buy the drug, to buy the technology and to train staff. This means nothing. The government decided to double its research budget, but is not investing any more in the health care system. That is left up to the provinces.

The same can be said of the airline industry. The government decided to create a new tax. Today, in order to help travellers swallow the bitter new tax pill a little easier, the Minister of Transport said, and I quote, “the airlines should lower their ticket prices”.

So, every time the government invents a new tax, it is up to the industry in question to find a way to absorb the costs for the Liberal government's good decisions.

I repeat, what has happened in the airline industry is serious, it is a situation without precedent in history. I think that some day, and I hope it will be as soon as possible, people will judge the government for its acts, for the fact that it has come out of this so brazenly, without investing, and letting companies such as Canada 3000 go bankrupt, leaving workers on the street.

[Highway Infrastructure, March 11th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, work to extend highway 50 will soon begin, and the federal government has yet to put its financial contribution on the table. It seems that the federal government's intention is to call on the private sector to invest in strategic infrastructures, which means that we could end up with highway 50 being a toll road.

Could the Deputy Prime Minister tell us if he intends to soon announce Ottawa's contribution, and whether his strategy includes making highway 50 a toll road?

[Petitions, February 27th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table a petition on behalf of several hundred people from Montebello and the regional county municipality of Papineau about the Louis-Joseph Papineau historic site, where restoration work started in 1995 has not yet been completed because of an access problem.

Petitioners ask Parliament to allocate the funds necessary to complete the work and acquire the space required to build a parking lot and a direct access road to Manoir Papineau historic site.

[Mirabel Airport, February 27th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, can the minister confirm the information that Air Transat is apparently preparing to move all of its flights to other Canadian airports, because 90% of their flights are night flights, thus lending credibility to the rumours of Mirabel airport's closing?

[Mirabel Airport, February 27th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, Mayor Hubert Meilleur of Mirabel is concerned about the future of the airport. There are more and more persistent indications that Mirabel airport may be closed.

Can the Minister of Transport confirm whether in the foreseeable future there is any likelihood of Mirabel being closed down?

[Highway Infrastructure, February 26th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is our belief is that, if the Minister of Transport is delaying signature of the agreements submitted by Quebec, it is because the money is not available.

Will the Minister of Transport confirm that, if he is delaying signature of the protocols, it is because the Liberal promises made before and during the election campaign far exceed the funds available? In other words, the money promised is not available.