Bill C-13 (Historical)

Protecting Canadians from Online Crime Act

An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to provide, most notably, for
(a) a new offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images as well as complementary amendments to authorize the removal of such images from the Internet and the recovery of expenses incurred to obtain the removal of such images, the forfeiture of property used in the commission of the offence, a recognizance order to be issued to prevent the distribution of such images and the restriction of the use of a computer or the Internet by a convicted offender;
(b) the power to make preservation demands and orders to compel the preservation of electronic evidence;
(c) new production orders to compel the production of data relating to the transmission of communications and the location of transactions, individuals or things;
(d) a warrant that will extend the current investigative power for data associated with telephones to transmission data relating to all means of telecommunications;
(e) warrants that will enable the tracking of transactions, individuals and things and that are subject to legal thresholds appropriate to the interests at stake; and
(f) a streamlined process of obtaining warrants and orders related to an authorization to intercept private communications by ensuring that those warrants and orders can be issued by a judge who issues the authorization and by specifying that all documents relating to a request for a related warrant or order are automatically subject to the same rules respecting confidentiality as the request for authorization.
The enactment amends the Canada Evidence Act to ensure that the spouse is a competent and compellable witness for the prosecution with respect to the new offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images.
It also amends the Competition Act to make applicable, for the purpose of enforcing certain provisions of that Act, the new provisions being added to the Criminal Code respecting demands and orders for the preservation of computer data and orders for the production of documents relating to the transmission of communications or financial data. It also modernizes the provisions of the Act relating to electronic evidence and provides for more effective enforcement in a technologically advanced environment.
Lastly, it amends the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act to make some of the new investigative powers being added to the Criminal Code available to Canadian authorities executing incoming requests for assistance and to allow the Commissioner of Competition to execute search warrants under the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act.

Protecting Canadians from Online Crime Act

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

moved that Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the House, for time to discuss this important bill at second reading, Bill C-13, protecting Canadians from online crime.

This is very important legislation, but it is well-recognized that it will require a holistic approach when it comes to the subject of cyberbullying. It will require efforts within the education system. It will certainly require very direct and mature discussions with young people and others in the country when it comes to the awareness and understanding of the effects of bullying and cyberbullying.

I want to indicate immediately that all elements of this bill to assist police with investigations online require a warrant. I emphasize that judicial authorization is deeply entrenched in Bill C-13. The bill and the government's long-standing commitment to help keep our streets and communities safe is very much in keeping with efforts of judicial oversight and focusing on all programs and all instances of having young people come to understand the terrible phenomenon of online bullying and its far-reaching effects.

The bill is very timely and significant legislation. As all would know, it is aimed at improving the safety of Canadians, not only in their homes and neighbourhoods but also online, where so many spend an incredible amount of time. All of the sections of the bill deal with electronic communications. This is our generation's preferred mode of correspondence. We now have to bring some of the elements of investigation also into the 21st century when it comes to electronic communications.

The necessity for security with respect to online activities is becoming more apparent as our use of social media and other technologies continue to grow. Consider that, according to StatsCan, in 2010 roughly 80% of Canadian households had access to the Internet. Maclean's magazine reports that more than 19 million Canadians, more than half the population, are now users of Facebook.

In the 1990s, there were hundreds of websites. Now the numbers have swelled to billions. These numbers will only continue to increase and the technology involved will become more sophisticated, making it even more essential to develop a legal framework that will support the online safety of Canadians and will give our security forces commensurate tools to ensure safety

Bill C-13 is comprised of two related but distinct parts. The first addresses the particularly vile and invasive form of cyberbullying involving the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. The second aims to ensure that the Criminal Code and other federal legislation is keeping pace with technological changes. Both involve electronic communications and improving public safety. I am delighted that I am joined by my colleague, the Minister of Public Safety, for this debate.

The bill proposes updates to offences and to the powers of police to investigate crimes committed using electronic networks or that use electronic evidence.

I would like to address both of these parts in turn, beginning with the key elements of the bill that address cyberbullying.

We are all aware of the issues of bullying and cyberbullying and how they have become priorities for many governments around the world. Cyberbullying is the use of the Internet to perpetrate what is commonly known as bullying, but it is of particular interest and concern of late. This interest is due in no small part to the number of teen suicides over the past few years in which cyberbullying was alleged to have played a part.

We have heard of cases involving Rehtaeh Parsons in my province of Nova Scotia, Amanda Todd on the west coast, a young man named Todd Loik in Saskatchewan recently, and countless others. It is clearly a case of the worst form of harassment, intimidation and humiliation of young people, which resulted in a feeling of hopelessness, that there was no other way out, and they took their lives.

Having met with the parents of many of these young people and spoken to many young people within my own circle of friends and family, it becomes clear that there is a clarion call for Parliament and for our criminal justice system to respond. This is truly an issue in which I would hope the House would come together around our efforts to improve things. As I said, it goes well beyond this legislation and this Hill. It will require a very fulsome discussion of the implications and the understanding of what it means to post images and to use the Internet for the purposes of harassing another individual.

There appears to be a greater need and profound understanding of the impact that this form of bullying has on young people and its pervasiveness in the schools.

Online bullying increases the speed and the scope in which statements and images can be made and shared with many others, as we know. Once something is posted online, it is very difficult to control its further use or dissemination. Most times, it is from a cowardly, anonymous, malicious individual, whose identity is very hard to track.

Cyberbullying victims also report that is it very difficult to retreat or escape from the cyberbullying activity. It is pervasive in the way in which telecommunications play such an important part in young people's lives these days.

Canadians want to know what we can do to deal with cyberbullying. Questions have been raised about whether the Criminal Code deals adequately with this type of behaviour and recent technological advances.

Currently, the Criminal Code can in fact address most of the serious forms of cyberbullying through, for example, existing offences of criminal harassment per section 264, uttering threats per section 264.1 or identity fraud, found in section 403. However, there is no offence in the Criminal Code that specifically addresses the contemptible form of cyberbullying that has emerged, involving the distribution of sexual images without the consent of the person depicted in that image.

Addressing this gap in the Criminal Code is one of the goals of Bill C-13. The bill proposes a new Criminal Code offence prohibiting the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. Essentially, this offence would prohibit the sharing of sexual or nude images without the consent of the person depicted.

It may be useful to better understand how this behaviour typically comes about. It usually begins, in some sense, with a non-criminal context of perfectly lawful, consensual recording of intimate images in a private setting. I specifically set aside any images depicting an underage youth. These images may be subsequently transmitted electronically to a partner, a practice commonly known as “sexting”. Upon the breakdown of the relationship, however, one of the known partners may distribute these images to third parties without the consent of the person depicted in the image. It is now commonly known as “revenge porn”.

It is important to note that this offence is not intended to criminalize sexting when it is done with consent. Rather it is the unauthorized, non-consensual distribution of these images that is targeted in this new offence.

I would like to take a moment to fully describe the specific aspects of the proposed offence.

The proposed new offence will prohibit all manner of distributing, sharing or making available of an intimate image without the consent of the person depicted in that image. This is intended to capture all the ways in which intimate images are shared, including posting an image on a website, sharing via social media, email or in person, but will not capture the consensual recording or the private use of these images.

The main element of the offence is that the sharing of the distribution would be done without the consent of the person depicted. The accused would not have to know that the person depicted in the image did not consent to the distribution or be reckless as to whether or not the person depicted consented to the distribution.

Bill C-13 also contains a three part definition of intimate images to help guide the courts in determining whether or not a particular image would be subject to the offence. There is clarity there in the determination and specific wording of what classifies as an intimate image. The definition is similar to those found in existing voyeurism and child pornography offences.

Second, the image must be one which, at the time it was taken, was done in circumstances that gave rise to the reasonable expectation of privacy. This would ensure that the offence did not capture the distribution of images in which the person depicted could not have easily have asserted privacy interests. For example, it may be difficult for people to assert a privacy interest if, in fact, the photo were taken while they were publicly displaying nudity. If they walked down the street without clothes and someone took a picture, there would be no expectation of privacy.

Third, at the time of the offence, the image must be one in which respect the person depicted retains a privacy interest. In other words, if someone posted a nude picture on a website and someone else then subsequently shared the image, it would be unlikely that the person would retain an expectation of privacy.

In addition, the bill contains a number of amendments that would complement this proposed new offence. I stress again that judges must look at these facts and interpret how the law would apply in the collection of evidence and in determining whether a warrant was warranted.

As a means of prevention, the courts would be able to authorize and order a peace bond against a person who had intimate images in his or her possession, where there were reasonable grounds to fear that the person could then play into a new offence. That is, the person could post the offence or share those images.

As part of the sentence for the new offence, the court would be permitted to make a prohibition order, which would limit access by a convicted offender to the Internet or other digital networks unless the access was exercised in accordance with conditions set out by the court. There would be a very specific penalty that could attach with respect to limiting use to go back online.

The court would also be authorized to order non-consensual posted images removed from the Internet. The existing provision allows the court to order the removal of child pornography and voyeuristic recordings. That would be amended to include intimate images. I stress here that we have already made a number of Criminal Code amendments and have brought forward legislation requiring Internet service providers, for example, to report these images when they appear online.

Additionally, the court could be authorized to order any tools used in the commission of the proposed offence, such as cell phones or computers, to be forfeited to the Crown. This is in keeping with other criminal acts we have seen, where vehicles and tools used in the commission of an offence can be seized by the Crown.

At the end of the process, the court would also be authorized to order the convicted offender to pay restitution to permit the victim to recoup expenses incurred to secure the removal from the Internet of these non-consensually posted intimate images.

Finally, the Canada Evidence Act would also be amended to ensure that the spouse of a person accused of distributing intimate images could be eligible to testify for the Crown. That is, spousal immunity would be waived. We have done this, as well, in sections pertaining to protecting children.

The bill also proposes updating existing offences that are relevant to cyberbullying. For example, the offence of false messages and harassing phone calls, in section 372, refers to behaviour conducted by letter or telegram, among other methods, but does not include more modern methods, as though the Internet or smart phones do not exist.

I point out that many of the sections we are trying to update were enacted during the time of rotary dial phones and telegrams, well in advance of the arrival of the Internet. We are modernizing and bringing those sections into the 21st century. This offence is relevant and is an applicable offence in the cyberbullying context. However, as it is currently drafted, it would not apply to conduct committed via modern technology. The bill is all about updating offences to make sure that any prohibited conduct done through any form of telecommunication would be captured.

I also want to move on to the part of the bill that involves elements related to modernization of the Criminal Code and other federal legislation, some of which has caused some consternation. There has been some significant misinformation disseminated.

Specifically, the bill contains amendments to the Criminal Code, the Competition Act, and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act to ensure that our laws are suitable for the technologically advanced world in which we live. They are meant to modernize both offences and investigative powers to make the Criminal Code more responsive to current criminal behaviour, which, as we know, is becoming more and more sophisticated. Organized crime, in particular, and those who prey on children very often use the Internet as the means to carry out these nefarious acts.

There is a common thread in these amendments. They all have as their primary objective providing law enforcement agencies with the tools they need in the 21st century to continue to respect their roles as protectors of the public while at the same time respecting the civil liberties of Canadians. They all require judicial authorization to carry out their duties.

Let me begin by stressing that the purpose of the legislative and investigative power amendments is not to give extensive new authority to the state to intrude into the privacy of Canadians. On the contrary, the new powers in this bill are carefully and narrowly constructed to respond to the investigative challenges posed by the advances that have occurred in technology over the past few decades and also to maintain the privacy protections and expectations of Canadians.

Modernizing investigative tools is especially important in investigations into these proposed new offences of non-consensual distribution of intimate images, which may be implicated in serious cases of cyberbullying. These updated tools would also, as they should, assist police in the investigation of all online crimes, and any crimes that involve digital evidence, such as fraud, the distribution of child pornography, and various forms of cyberattacks.

What are these amendments? First, Bill C-13 proposes to create a new data-preservation scheme. These tools would allow police to safeguard computer data while they apply to the court for a proper court order to acquire the data. Simply put, it is a do-not-delete order until such time as the police require the warrant.

Next, Bill C-13 proposes to update the existing judicially supervised production orders. These amendments would result in a comprehensive toolkit involving a general production order, which is comparable to a search warrant, and four specific production orders for information with little or no privacy impact. They would help police commence investigations.

The production orders could only be used to obtain historical information before the specific production orders contemplated by Bill C-13 would allow police to do the following: determine where individuals were or what they were doing at a specific moment in time, meaning tracking information; obtain transmission data, such as an email address the communication was sent to; trace the path of the telecommunication to determine the identity of a suspect; and, finally, collect basic financial information. It should be noted that police already have the ability to apply to the court for the same type of information in other areas.

This bill also proposes to modernize two existing judicial warrant powers: the tracking warrant and the number-recording warrant. These warrants are unique in that they allow police to collect this type of information in real time.

Finally, the bill also proposes some efficiencies with regard to wiretap applications. These amendments basically are a codification of the practices of many of our courts, but the amendments would ensure that Canadian courts, as in all jurisdictions, would use the same process. The proposed amendments would create a single application for all judicial warrants and orders related to the execution of the wiretap authorization. This new process would make it clear that the judge who issued the wiretap authorization could also issue all the other supporting warrants or orders without requiring a separate application. It is a streamlining process whereby the court would have a full picture of all the interventions.

I apologize for some of the minute detail, but it is important that we are again emphasizing here that judicial authorization would be required in all instances in aspects of this bill. Data preservation and the sophistication and proliferation of information are what we are trying to get at while, at the same time, balancing this with Canadians' reasonable expectations of privacy.

What is envisioned in this bill are not massive scoops of information, or mega-data, as it is sometimes called, as is the case in other jurisdictions in European countries. This bill would not ask Internet service providers to collect anyone's information and keep it indefinitely. Like other warrants, these would be for a set, specified period of time. As I mentioned, this could be done as of a do-not-delete order for a period of up to 21 days, or in cases of foreign preservation information, up to 90 days. However, again, judicial authorization would be required.

The power, I suggest, would facilitate the investigation of offences where much of the evidence is in an electronic form and would be used, as I said, to go after the non-consensual distribution of intimate images in an era when crucial evidence can be deleted, sometimes even inadvertently, in the blink of an eye.

As I mentioned earlier, in addition to proposing new investigative powers, the bill would modernize existing powers, bringing into the 21st century what the police are trying to do and protecting our communities.

I would note that this is a bill that has tremendous support from the provinces. We have had the Privacy Commissioner consulted on aspects of this bill. We look forward to further debate throughout this process as we move forward on what I believe is an important step to protect Canadians and protect information and at the same time respect the fact that this is the new way of communicating among Canadians and around the world.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the minister for his speech. I took careful note of his fervent hope that the House will unite to support his bill. I took careful note, but I have some concerns.

Three-quarters of his speech focused on the very serious problem of cyberbullying, particularly the distribution of intimate images, which led to Bill C-13. My colleague introduced this bill in the House previously as Bill C-540.

I am concerned because most of his speech focused on exactly seven provisions or only five pages of the bill, whereas pages 6 to 53, which include clauses 8 to 47, focus more on the tools given to police officers.

The minister must know that, since his bill was introduced, experts and knowledgeable people in the field, including the Privacy Commissioner, have expressed concerns about these aspects of the bill.

Why did he make things so complicated when he could have quickly obtained unanimous consent on the more specific part of the bill that he spoke so much about in his speech, the part about cyberbullying and the distribution of intimate images?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to sincerely thank my dear colleague for that question and for her participation in this very important debate in the House of Commons.

The legislation is consistent in that it deals with electronic communications broadly. Yes, there is a component that is very much in response to the pressing need to address cyberbullying, cyber-intimidation, which has really put young people's lives at risk. At the same time, there must be empowering elements of investigation, which are contained in the same legislation, that would pertain to not only the enforcement of the cyberbullying component, which is the new Criminal Code section we have brought forward on the non-consensual distribution of images. We also cannot simply empower police to go after that single component of the Criminal Code. We must also allow police to use those same powers to enforce other elements of the Criminal Code.

There is a common theme throughout for investigative powers. These were recommendations consistent with the federal-provincial-territorial document that was produced. I know that she aware of it.

I note, as well, that while the Privacy Commissioner may have concerns, this is the time and the place. I am sure the Privacy Commissioner herself may want to appear before the parliamentary committee to have her views known. However, I suggest to the her that when one examines the electronic communication sections the bill affects, we are empowering investigators to enforce the law and use the proper channels. Most importantly, judicial authorization is required, which sets it apart from previous bills.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the minister said a couple of times that in all instances, judicial authorization is required. I beg to differ.

Clause 20 of the bill, specifically proposed section 487.0195, addresses voluntary disclosure of information by, for example, telecommunications companies and Internet service providers. In a circumstance in which electronic information is voluntarily disclosed, they are given absolute immunity. Therefore, in a case where there is a co-operating party, there is indeed no judicial oversight and no sanction. In fact, there is immunity given. It is really not far from a warrantless search when we have a willing party holding the data. That, in our view, is the poison pill in this legislation.

We all support modernizing the Criminal Code to deal with the scourge of cyberbullying. I compliment the minister for bringing legislation forward that does that. The problem is that the poison pill built within it would have dramatic impacts on civil liberty and privacy, the very things that caused them to back away from the e-snooping bill.

Would the minister please split the bill so we can all stand together, as he suggested, and have the House come together against cyberbullying? Will he please split the bill to take the poison pill out?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I hope this might help the pill go down a little easier.

The proposed section to which the member refers in the Criminal Code does not displace existing court authorization requirement. In fact it is a very specific area, and I am glad he raised it.

The provision would clarify that the police officer can lawfully ask—and he points out—that individuals and groups voluntarily preserve data or provide documentation, but only when no prohibition exists against doing so. That is to suggest that organizations would still be bound by the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, something known as PIPEDA, which makes it clear that an organization is entitled to voluntarily disclose personal information to the police, without the consent of the person to have the information relayed.

However police have to have lawful authority to do so. They still have to obtain a warrant. They can ask that the information be preserved and temporarily put on hold so that it cannot be deleted, but in order for police to access that information that is frozen, they must still obtain a warrant.

There is no warrantless access. If I could quote the hon. member for Beauséjour, he said:

The old tools, the old laws and regulations, and common law around search warrants, lawful access, etc., haven't kept up with the technology that organized crime is using.

I agree with that. That is why we have to empower the police, modern investigators, to have modern tools to go after organized crime.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Minister of Justice for bringing this important and timely bill before the House of Commons.

As members of Parliament, we have all heard from our constituents, from parents, about the concerns about cyberbullying. I am really pleased to see that the government is moving forward on its promise to do something about this.

I wonder if the minister can tell us, in the days since the legislation was tabled in the House, if he has heard anything from the families of the those who have fallen victim to this type of offence, if he has heard about their views on the legislation being debated here today.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, clearly this is a very emotional issue, as one would expect, for families who have had loved ones take their own lives as a result of cyberbullying and cyberintimidation, which has had a very real emotional and tragic impact on their lives.

In fact I have consulted with them, in the efforts to draft this legislation in the most effective way. We have chosen to bring this matter forward as a priority in this House. As the justice minister, I worked very hard on this bill to try to get this balance right.

For family members who have lost loves ones, I believe there is a very real recognition that this is in direct response to the tragedy that befell their lives. This is very much a response and a tabling of a bill that could easily have been named the Rehtaeh Parsons bill, the Amanda Todd bill or the Todd Loik bill.

This bill is something that would very much prevent and protect those same tragic acts from happening again in the future. That is our hope. We look forward to having this debated further in this House and in committee. I invite all members to support this legislation.

[Bruce Hyer, Independent, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly support legislation to stop cyberbullying, and I think many of the provisions on cyberbullying in this bill are good and necessary.

However, like the member for Charlottetown, I am worried about whether the government is using this issue as a Trojan horse to increase our risk of being a surveillance state. I and many others feel that the government is trying to bring back Bill C-30.

My question is this. Yesterday, the United Nations human rights committee unanimously passed a resolution to protect individuals from unlawful surveillance. It happened to be a resolution on which the government worked with the U.S. to water down.

Does the member not think that, just as victims of cyberbullying deserve protection, people's privacy rights also deserve protection?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, of course, as Minister of Justice, I very much respect privacy rights. That is why we have a Privacy Commissioner. That is why we consulted with her on this particular bill.

However, I find it very unfortunate and troubling that this misleading, inaccurate description is applied, that references are made to a Trojan Horse and that this is a bill with a poison pill. It is not. There is prior judicial authorization required in every single clause of the bill. There is no ability for police to act without warrants. There is no ability to seize Canadians' information.

What we have done is put assurances here that would balance those concerns, that would put in place proper protections around the unauthorized distribution of information. Let us be clear on what we are trying to do here. We are trying to put police investigative powers in place on the Internet, where so much information, and therefore, danger can exist. Unfortunately, technology moved at a much faster pace than the legislation that would enable police to do their job properly.

We have seen many recent cases; for example, in Toronto, where there was information seized online that shut down a child pornography ring. We want to be able to give the police the power to do that, to protect children, protect information, protect finances and protect against terrorism. All of this is about giving police those tools in the modern era.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, further to the exchanges that took place after the speech given by the Minister of Justice, if people are worried about poison pills, perhaps it is because that is what the Conservatives so often have to offer. Thus, it is not surprising that people are worried about this long-awaited bill.

I think it is worth reiterating the fact that my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour had introduced Bill C-540, which addressed the issue of cyberbullying and, more specifically, the distribution of intimate images, following the suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons. We even offered to fast-track this process.

All members of this House agreed on these provisions. The government replied that it was working on the issue, and I do acknowledge that some federal-provincial-territorial meetings took place. I was very pleased to hear the Minister of Justice say that he believed in a more comprehensive approach than simply claiming that Bill C-13 would solve the problem of cyberbullying, as the bill's fancy title would suggest. Let us hope so, because the bill's title certainly promises more than it can deliver. In fact, I am sure the Conservatives have hired someone just to come up with fancy titles, such as the “protecting Canadians from online crime act”.

Still, I acknowledge that the provinces and territories were involved. There were meetings and discussions because they were the ones who raised the problems. We know we need a more holistic and comprehensive approach. The motion moved by my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, Motion No. 485, offers a comprehensive approach to bullying, but the Conservatives voted against it. There is no reason to believe that Bill C-13 will put an end to situations that have been around for a long time.

The Conservatives introduced a bill whose first seven clauses are exactly what everyone expected the Minister of Justice to introduce with respect to cyberbullying and the distribution of images. However, clauses eight and up must have come as a surprise to many. Forty-seven is a lot of clauses.

Experts on privacy and the Internet, as well as journalists, jumped at the chance to ask questions during the minister's press conference. No doubt the minister was expecting something other than those questions, all of them on the same subject, and for good reason. After what happened with the former public safety minister, people got worried about what was around the corner. I will be kind, but it was not funny when he introduced Bill C-30.

It was to be expected that people would think Bill C-30 had risen from the ashes when they saw clauses eight and up of Bill C-13. The former justice minister, the one immediately preceding our colleague opposite, promised that those clauses would not be seen again.

Journalists, who know a thing or two about the situation, did not wait one second to ask the questions that demanded to be asked of the minister, questions about cyberbullying. When he announced the introduction of his bill just last week, the minister said that everything related to cyberbullying and that there were no surprises in that regard.

Whether this is seen as a poison pill or not, the questions make it clear that this bill touches on some complicated concepts, especially from clause 8 on.

The Minister of Justice is right to say that the most serious irritants in Bill C-30 are not in the current bill. Yes, this will require warrants. However, we must still ask ourselves some serious questions about what kind of warrant will be needed and what evidence will be necessary to obtain it. Some are even saying that this lowers the threshold. Instead of talking about reasonable and probable grounds to believe something, the bill talks about suspicion. They are introducing different terms.

I think that the minister wants as many members as possible to support his bill. I therefore hope that he will be open to allowing us to study this aspect carefully. We will have some serious arguments to make in committee about these aspects of the bill. I hope that we will not be criticized or accused of supporting cyberbullies or anything like that, simply because we are doing our jobs. There are some serious questions and we do not have any definite answers to some of them today. For example, did the minister make sure that this bill is in line with the charter, since this is one of his duties?

I hope he will be referring to studies when he speaks about the bill before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. I hope he will tell us that, indeed, he and the people in his department tested the constitutionality and compliance of his bill under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, specifically in terms of privacy and the interception of personal information.

I heard my colleague from Charlottetown ask a question about an issue that is worrying some experts, and that is the warrant for voluntary disclosure of information. In his reply, the minister stressed that this was on condition that no legal prohibition existed against preserving or communicating this information. This type of provision is greatly disturbing. This is not as simple as making a request and getting a positive answer on the spot. There are some rules, but they may not be sufficient in terms of protecting privacy.

Ultimately, we are all trying to create a safe environment for our children and youth. However, in doing so, we must be careful not to create legislative monsters that allow some to slip through our fingers while ensnaring others who should have nothing to fear in a free and democratic society. On this side of the House, we have always been concerned about that.

Obviously, my heart bleeds for the parents who have gone through such terrible situations. Is there anything worse than having a child commit suicide? I cannot imagine the hell that families must go through in those circumstances.

I will tell a story that I told my colleagues this morning, as I was discussing my recommendation on Bill C-13. On the day Bill C-13 was introduced, I ran into one of my colleagues opposite in the elevator in Parliament. He was with some people who had came to see this historic tabling. This was important to them because it had to do with something they had gone through. When I was introduced as the justice critic for the NDP, Mrs. Todd looked at me and said she hoped we would support the bill.

I am always happy to support good legislation. However, sometimes my heart bleeds when I have to tell my colleagues that I cannot, in good conscience, support a bill. I often give it a chance, because I always have hope.

This is the message I have for the Minister of Justice. We must be allowed to conduct a thorough study.

I presume that the minister truly believes in what he is doing today and that he wants to help victims, parents, children, young people and adults, because adults can also be caught up in this situation.

I hope that he truly believes in what he is doing today and that the other provisions are well-founded. I hope that he has had the opportunity to study them extensively. However, the other members of the House have not had the opportunity to do so, because we were told by his predecessor that he would not bring back these kinds of provisions. Consequently, I hope he will not be surprised if we have some minor questions about this. We definitely will have some.

A number of legal organizations are asking questions. In fact, we have to compare the provisions. We have to understand what they mean. The wording used with respect to obtaining a warrant has changed. The bill says “suspect” instead of “reasonable and probable grounds to believe”. The legislator does not talk for nothing and, therefore, this must mean something.

It is not unusual to want to carefully analyze these types of provisions. The bill is very important for Canadians of all ages and races who are interested in the serious problem of cyberbullying. It is definitely a priority for all parliamentarians in the House. We will definitely not reject it out of hand at the outset.

However, I would like to say something to the families, both the Todd family and Rehtaeh Parsons' family.

I read Mrs. Todd's blog, and I was extremely moved. She asked the following question:

“Could the Cyberbullying Bill Have Saved Amanda?” She says yes.

The fact that a parent said that and is investing so much hope in a bill should strike a chord with all members.

That being said, we cannot abdicate our duty as legislators to exercise due diligence.

Today, I am urging the Minister of Justice to tell his colleagues who belong to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to take as much time as they need to study this bill, which is about a very important, very human issue that affects too many people. We have to stop thinking that this is a race against time, because it is not.

Obviously, we need solid, unassailable provisions that will eliminate this scourge, and we need them soon. However, they have to come with other provisions that are equally solid from a legal standpoint, and they have to be in line with existing laws so that, in a year or two, they will not be swept aside.

Families believe in the work we are doing. They have so much hope. We have to take the time we need to do a good job. We have to hear from experts on cybercrime and cyberbullying, on the Internet and on privacy law. We have to hear from all of those people so that we can evaluate this bill.

There are much easier ways though. I took note of what my colleague from Charlottetown said earlier when he asked the Minister of Justice a question. He asked him whether there might be a way to study the bill from two perspectives. First of all, it would have to be evaluated more quickly. I think that members of the House already support the cyberbullying and distribution of intimate images provisions in the bill.

That is why there might be a way, if everyone in the House agrees, to split the bill in two without changing or amending any of the clauses. I am not even suggesting any amendments, simply because that work will be done in committee.

Of course we want to do this work in committee. However, we want to work both on cyberbullying and the distribution of intimate images, and on the other aspect, which is the powers to be granted to police officers.

I was reading the submission of an association of criminal experts, which indicates that some provisions are cause for concern. One has to wonder what the government means by “some provisions”.

In light of this, I would like to remind the Conservatives that they have to take these concerns into account. It is important to remember what happened with Bill C-30. After an absolutely unbelievable campaign of a sort rarely seen in the House, the Conservative government backtracked, which is not something that happens very often. The Conservatives have a tendency to always push forward, even if they are hitting a brick wall. They do not often make a strategic retreat to show that they heard what the public had to say. However, that is what happened in the case of Bill C-30.

The Conservatives backtracked because Canadians felt that Bill C-30 violated their privacy and gave some people unrestricted tools. Those people may have good intentions, but once again, the devil is in the details. This made the minister backtrack, which is a good thing.

We do not want to go through all that again with Bill C-13. I will not say that Bill C-30 caused mass hysteria, because that is not true. However, people were extremely concerned, and it made us wonder exactly what the government was trying to achieve. We are asking ourselves the same thing in this case, where people expect a bill on cyberbullying and the distribution of images.

Yes, the ministers of justice and public safety from across the country examined these issues and talked about how this sort of evidence could be collected; however, they did not come up with a plan as detailed as the one set out in Bill C-13.

On one hand, there are the parents of victims who want something positive to come out of all this, and rightly so. On the other hand, there are also privacy guardians.

I do not think there is anyone in the House, including the Conservatives, who does not think this is important. They obviously talk about it less on their side, but I think that they also believe this is very important. I have never heard anyone on the Conservative side say that they do not believe in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, in the right to a personal life, to a private life, to their own image, to do what they want in their own home.

There is an extremely simple way to address all of these serious concerns about Bill C-13. We would simply have to divide Bill C-13, and I would like to move that we do so.

I would like to seek the unanimous consent of the House to move the following motion: That notwithstanding any Standing Order or usual practice of the House, clauses 2 to 7 and 27 related to cyberbullying, be removed from Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, and do compose Bill C-15; that Bill C-15 be entitled "An Act to amend the Criminal Code (non-consensual making or distributing of intimate images)"; that Bill C-15 be deemed read a first time and printed; that the order for second reading of the said bill provide for the referral to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights; that Bill C-13 retain the status on the Order Paper that it had prior to the adoption of this Order; that Bill C-13 be reprinted as amended; and that the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel be authorized to make any technical changes or corrections as may be necessary to give effect to this motion.

This would make it possible to pass Bill C-15 quickly. Then, we could more carefully study Bill C-13 as amended.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Does the hon. member for Gatineau have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion?

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

No.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. Minister of Justice.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my friend from Gatineau for her very compelling speech, where she raised some very good points about the necessity to examine the bill in detail. I could not agree more. That will be the process, as she is very familiar.

We will have the opportunity to proceed not only through the debate in the House, but to go to committee. I think all Canadians are increasingly aware that this is the place where the real work gets done. Out of the glare of the cameras, the show and the partisanship, that is where the real work gets done.

There is a bit of a contradiction in her argument in suggesting that in the last Parliament, before prorogation, we should have rushed to pass the hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour's bill through all stages of the House and have it unanimously adopted. That would have been an empty vessel. It really undermines the argument she has just made, that, in fairness to the families and to all Canadians who are looking for a substantive response to a serious social issue, it requires the expert oversight and advice that we should receive in the committee.

Yes, I should be held to scrutiny by all members of the House. The member for Charlottetown asked an important question. I will be going before committee, again, to answer questions.

I say to the hon. member, let us work together. I am prepared to reach across the aisle to her and all members. This should be one of Parliament's finest moments, where we are able to respond to the needs of Canadians on a serious social issue. It is an issue that goes to the very heart of protecting young people, protecting information in the information age and ensuring that we are giving police the proper powers, but balanced with privacy issues, to do the work that we ask of them every day.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that the Minister of Justice is reaching out. I see that one of his parliamentary secretaries is in the House. I am sure he heard the same words I did.

It is imperative that we take the time to really look at each and every one of these clauses.

There was no contradiction there. We said that the difference between 7 clauses and 47 was that it would take far less time to study the first seven clauses. That way, we could address the parents' need to see this issue debated.

Now the process will take longer. The government decided to incorporate elements that—while not necessarily the same as those that were in Bill C-30—are quite worrisome to groups other than victims of cyberbullying or parents of those who have committed suicide after being bullied online.

If there is unlimited time for hearing from various experts, then it is possible to split this into two. I hope that this will not be forgotten. I will take his words to committee with me, that is for sure.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank my colleague from Gatineau for her speech. She works very hard on the committee. Of course she is very knowledgeable about all of the issues at stake here.

I also spent some time going through the bill, because of the concern over the ghost of Vic Toews in the e-snooping bill. Of the 47 clauses in the bill, 37 are out of the e-snooping bill.

I certainly support the approach of the hon. member when she pleaded for adequate time to do a proper job at committee. I supported the approach of the hon. member to sever out the things that are non-controversial and that would provide some immediate relief to the families of victims, while we get into more detail on the stuff has a real potential to impact the charter rights.

In particular, she dwelled on the lowering of the evidentiary standard for certain warrants from reasonable and probable grounds to believe the commission of an offence, to suspicion. Could she elaborate a bit more on her concerns vis-à-vis the charter and the lowering of the evidentiary bar for warrants in those specific provisions, please?

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Charlottetown, who also works very hard on the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

I appreciate that we will not be the only ones asking for sufficient time to study this bill properly. I am sure we will have the opportunity to ask the parliamentary secretary about that when he speaks later. It will be interesting to see if it means anything when people give their word in this House. I think we all share the same objective of wanting to study the bill thoroughly.

I invite the members of this House who are interested in this to look up what are known as “the forms” in this bill.

When someone goes before a judge to try to obtain the right to seize or preserve data, the police officer or individual investigating must have some evidence. That is where the terminology has been changed. Previously one had to have “reasonable and probable grounds to believe”, but that wording has been changed to “reasonable grounds to suspect”. Perhaps it means the same thing and we are worrying for nothing. That being said, we would like to debate this issue.

I worked with lawyers long enough, for nearly 30 years in fact, to know that sometimes all it takes is a change in the wording to completely mess up a case.

Accordingly, we must be very careful and do everything we can to ensure that this is the best possible bill when it comes back to the House and that it achieves the intended results.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for her intervention on Bill C-13 and commend her for the motion she presented to the House to try to split the bill into two very separate pieces, one dealing with what the government says it is truly focused on, which is closing the gap that has been identified in the Criminal Code on cyberbullying, and to end the malicious, hurtful and sometimes deadly practice of cyberbullying and the transfer of intimate images.

I would like to ask my colleague whether she has heard from other Canadian experts about the concerns she has raised. While the government should be applauded for bringing forward provisions to close the gap in the Criminal Code for cyberbullying, it has also gone a considerable distance in another direction, which is to add huge investigative powers to authorities under the guise of modernizing the Criminal Code.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question. Once again, I would like to commend my colleague for his work on this issue, and for having made a promise to Rehtaeh Parsons' parents and keeping his word by introducing Bill C-540. I sincerely congratulate him.

There are many people who have concerns about Bill C-13. There are also others who have concerns about the part of the bill that deals with cyberbullying. We should keep in mind that not everyone is prepared to trust the Conservatives.

The Criminal Lawyers' Association represents 1,000 criminal lawyers in Ontario. That is quite a few. The association has concerns about the wording of the bill. It also has concerns about cyberbullying. Indeed, the association believes that the whole issue of cyberbullying in Bill C-13 is actually covered in clause 3. We are talking about a bill that has many more clauses.

What does that mean exactly? The association feels that there is a problem there. I will leave it up the association to clearly determine, in committee, what people thought they were doing, because the issue of mens rea, or criminal intent, has to be considered. This will be a refresher for those of us who are lawyers. This issue can apply, for example, in the case of a young person who receives an image from another youth concerning yet another young person.

In this bill, the Conservatives have done an incredible job of showing that there are situations where it may be difficult to prove that someone is guilty of a crime as such.

There are plenty of things like that to consider, but that will require a thorough study. By the way, we will support the bill at second reading so that it can be sent to committee. However, I must say that we will have to work long and hard on this.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Brossard—La Prairie, Champlain Bridge; the hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, Economic Development.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the events over the past year have impacted all Canadians. The emergence of cyberbullying in society is troubling.

We agree with the government and victims that measures are needed to prevent and address cyberbullying. We, on this side, agree that we need action to properly provide a strong and fair response to those who perpetrate such hurtful acts against others online. It really is a tragedy to hear media reports of young people with their whole lives ahead of them believing that they have no other option than to take their lives. That is how deep and cruel cyberbullying can be. We should tackle this issue in a firm and focused manner.

Just last week, we marked Bullying Awareness Week. Indeed, there was a large summit held in my riding, an international summit, with social media companies and with young people from both sides of the border, which was organized by a well-known expert in this field Parry Aftab. Anti-bullying week and the summit to which I just referred provide us with an opportunity to reflect upon how our words and actions can sometimes have such a devastating impact upon others. This, I submit, holds true, not only for our youth but also the not so young.

As I have said in the House on a number of occasions, bullying is the reality for many people. Words do matter. Often, those words inflict great devastation upon young people. We know that what was once the sole domain of the schoolyard has now moved to the online world. The traditional bully, who typically sought out a victim at school, is now able to extend his reach online. The victim of bullying at school could, at one time, get some relief when he or she would go home, perhaps finding some respite in the confines of his or her room, a place where it was safe and away from the bullies. Not any more. The bullies can now extend that reach into that bedroom, using the Internet as a virtual schoolyard.

We know that some young people say terrible things to each other online. We can only imagine how hurtful it would be to arrive home, perhaps having an already rough day, only to go online and read something about oneself that is likely untrue or perhaps embarrassing. We can only imagine how hurtful and distressing it would be to read an online post or comment calling someone a “fag” or a “dyke” or suggesting that an individual is “weird”, “fat”, “ugly” or any number of hurtful and devastating comments.

We can only imagine how this would pierce the soul of a young person, many of whom are already vulnerable with the all too common challenges of growing up. This is the reality of Canadian youth, day in and day out. This is the ruthless side of technology and the use of the Internet.

That is why we sought to address this issue through legislation last year with a cyberbullying bill from the Liberal member for Vancouver Centre, which I will address again later.

We know that school can be tough, but bullying is not the exclusive domain of young people. I submit to my colleagues that we find bullying here, in this chamber. We often attack one another. We often do so for having a different opinion on such and such a matter. We exaggerate that which is often not worth exaggerating. We do not do a very good job of listening to each other and engaging in real debate. We seem to ignore or exclude the possibility that someone else might have a helpful solution or a proposal worthy of at least a hearing. It is possible to learn from one another.

Instead, as I have experienced in my short time here, having a different opinion is sometimes tantamount to siding with the criminals, and then we use the pretext of democracy to legitimize such behaviour. This is, frankly, the poor example we sometimes give to the public and to young people.

Earlier in my remarks, I indicated that there was an international summit held in Charlottetown on bullying. The organizers of that summit were actually invited into the House of Commons last week on the day of the announcement of this introduction of this legislation. I can say that on that day we did not exactly do our best job. When these constituents, who were here at the invitation of the Prime Minister, had a chance to observe the antics on the floor of the House of Commons, it is safe to say that as advocates against bullying, they were not impressed.

Today we are debating a bill that was supposed to address bullying and the emergence of cyberbullying specifically. However, for some reason, much of this bill has little to do with cyberbullying. I was surprised by this. I actually assumed that the Conservatives would have played this one straight and up front.

Bill C-13, we were told, was to address cyberbullying. It would appear, however, that the Conservative government knowingly used this highly emotional issue as a cover to include legislative measures that have nothing to do with cyberbullying. Conflating, for example, terrorism with cyberbullying does not make any sense. Furthermore, using the scourge of cyberbullying in order to resurrect elements of the infamous Bill C-30, a piece of legislative work wholly rejected because it was in effect an e-snooping bill, is wrong.

Members will remember that bill. It was a bill proposed just last year by Vic Toews, the former Conservative public safety minister. We are also given to understand that the former minister of justice and the current Minister of Justice sought to meet with victims of cyberbullying and their families as they prepared to introduce cyberbully legislation. I commend them for reaching out.

However, much of this bill has little to do with cyberbullying, and that is why we agree with the motion that was put forward by my colleague from Gatineau to split the bill at committee. We do so because all of us on this side had genuinely hoped that it was to be a stand-alone issue; instead, we have a bill before us full of content unrelated to cyberbullying.

We know the minister consulted victims of bullying and their families. I suggest that there will not be one member of the Conservative caucus able to coherently tell Canadians why providing, for example, big telecom companies with immunity to share private information of any Canadian to the government without a warrant has much to do with cyberbullying. There will not be one Conservative MP who could say with any sense of reliability that allowing telecom companies free range to divulge to Canada's security services anything they want at any time without any exposure to civil litigation or criminal charges is in any way tackling cyberbullying. As we heard earlier in the debate, that, in my submission, is the poison pill in this legislation.

The government seems to be using victims of cyberbullying for political and partisan reasons. That is why we agree with the proposal to split this bill at committee and deal with the cyberbullying aspects of it as a stand-alone bill.

When Vic Toews introduced his odious and unconstitutional e-snooping bill last year, a bill that would have allowed widespread government invasion into the privacy of Canadians without a warrant, he did so, to his credit, up front. He did not try to hide it—well, not too much. Faced with fierce opposition to such a massive assault on the privacy of Canadians, he famously said of the member for Lac-Saint-Louis, “He can either stand with us or with the child pornographers.”

At least Vic Toews was up front in his effort to attack the privacy of Canadians.

Again the minister has a bill before the House, the vast majority of which has nothing to do with cyberbullying. I am not sure that I got an answer to my question, but I hope the Minister of Justice will do the right thing and allow the Conservative members of the justice committee the option to split this bill so that we can deal with cyberbullying as a stand-alone bill. Numerous measures from the old Vic Toews' e-snooping bill have no place in this bill.

I know that the minister will resist the temptation to suggest that we are on the side of the bullies when we seek to split the bill to deal with the cyberbullying as a stand-alone bill. To that point, let me be very clear: there is not one person in this House of Commons who does not want to combat cyberbullying.

As mentioned earlier, my colleague from Vancouver Centre, a person of great distinction and someone who has worked with victims of bullying and their families over the years, proposed a bill just last year on the very issue of cyberbullying. When it came time to vote on her bill, the Conservatives voted against it.

Since there was no discernible reason for the Conservatives to vote against her cyberbullying bill, we are left to speculate that they did so because the bill emanated from an opposition party, in this case the Liberal Party of Canada. Now here we are today, dealing with a bill we hoped would not be politicized. Unfortunately, it contains just five pages on cyberbullying, with the remaining 50-plus pages containing unrelated measures.

I earlier commended the minister for reaching out to victims of bullying as he prepared this legislation. As the minister was consulting victims of bullying and their families this summer, I contend that not one of those Canadians would have asked the minister to give telecoms and Internet service providers the right to share online data with Canadians without a warrant and to make it a criminal offence to steal cable signals or WiFi. I would challenge the minister to produce evidence if he could suggest otherwise.

Why, then, did the minister not simply do the right thing and introduce a stand-alone bill that tackled cyberbullying and only cyberbullying? Why did the minister include matters so disconnected to the issue of cyberbullying?

There are measures in the bill that seek to address cyberbullying. That much is not in dispute. As my colleague from Gatineau pointed out, they are in clauses 1 through 7.

The relevant section is the one that deals with the non-consensual exchange of intimate images. It belongs there. It is an issue that needed to be addressed, and we do not take issue with it. In light of the recent tragedies involving cyberbullying, we should support the creation of an offence to deter the non-consensual transfer of intimate images. This new offence would criminalize this kind of malicious photo sharing that specifically contributed to the tragic circumstances in which Rehtaeh Parsons decided to take her own life.

We know that cyberbullying is all too common among children and teenagers. As we proceed with addressing this issue, we must acknowledge that, given the immaturity of children, we should support preventative and restorative measures and not just punitive measures. We do not wish to see the imprisonment of Canadian children and teenagers in large numbers, so while supporting the intention of the creation of this offence, we should be careful to emphasize the importance of including a summary conviction option to allow for sufficient prosecutorial discretion, as is currently the case. I believe and hope the government will be open to that.

We should also assess and be open to addressing cyberbullying through restorative justice and non-legislative methods, and we should do so in conjunction with the provinces.

I mentioned earlier that most of this bill has little to do with cyberbullying. The measures that actually relate to cyberbullying amount to about five pages out of a bill that is more than 50 pages in length.

The government wonders why Canadians do not trust it to be up front and transparent with respect to its real agenda. If those provisions I just outlined had been placed in a separate bill, we could have proceeded. We could have sent a stand-alone bill immediately to the justice committee for review and provided the much-needed opportunity for victims to lend voice to the merits of such a bill. We could have then agreed to pass the bill at all remaining stages, and I would suggest that we could have it passed by Christmas.

Instead we have a government bill that reintroduces odious and unconstitutional measures that Canadians rejected last year. Here are just some of the measures currently in the bill that have absolutely nothing to do with cyberbullying. These measures are recycled from the bill put forward by the former minister of public safety, Vic Toews. We were told this would not happen again in light of the reaction of Canadians. The former justice minister, now occupying the national defence portfolio, said:

We will not be proceeding with Bill C-30 and any attempts that we will continue to have to modernize the Criminal Code will not contain the measures contained in C-30.

The new bill proposed today contradicts that promise in 37 of the 47 clauses contained in the bill. That is why we wish to have the bill separated and to place those provisions related to cyberbullying in a stand-alone bill.

Let me outline the elements contained in the old Vic Toews bill that we were promised would never rear its head again. These measures are now in the bill before us.

They include updates to technology-related offences such as theft of telecom signals and unauthorized use of computers, which has nothing to do with cyberbullying; the power to make preservation demands and orders to compel the preservation of electronic evidence, which has nothing to do with cyberbullying; new production orders to compel the production of data relating to the transmission of communications and the location of transactions, individuals, or things, which has nothing to do with cyberbullying; a warrant that will extend the current investigative power for data associated with telephones to all means of communication, which has nothing to do with cyberbullying; warrants that will enable the tracking of transactions, individuals, and things that are subject to legal thresholds appropriate to the interests at stake, including time extensions for warrants relating to organized crime and terrorism, which has nothing to do with cyberbullying; a so-called streamlined process of obtaining warrants and orders related to authorizations to intercept private communications, which has nothing to do with cyberbullying.

We reject using victims of bullying as a way to bring back the ghost of Vic Toews and his e-snooping bill. This was supposed to be a good day for young people and others who have been the subject of bullying online. This was supposed to be a day when this whole House, all of us, could stand in solidarity with victims of cyberbullying and support legislation that would help address its prevalence in Canada. Instead, we have politics as usual.

It is unfortunate that members who have a sincere interest and desire to address cyberbullying are being used as cover for the introduction of multiple items that have little or nothing to do with cyberbullying. The bill capitalizes on the tragic passing of teens victimized by cyberbullying to reinstate elements of legislation the government had previously withdrawn and had sworn not to reintroduce.

The current bill deprives members of a chance to stand in solidarity in addressing one of the problems affecting Canada's young people, namely cyberbullying, as a distinct and stand-alone bill. It includes provisions unrelated to cyberbullying that may infringe on civil liberties. It raises privacy concerns that ought to be referred to the Privacy Commissioner and legal experts, or perhaps be dealt with at committee prior to deliberation and debate in the House. The bill encourages telecommunications companies and Internet service providers to co-operate with the government in surveillance matters in a way that Canadians would find objectionable.

That is why we wish to have the bill split at the justice committee so that those measures, and those measures alone, that seek to address cyberbullying could be captured in their own legislation, free from the politics and division that this issue should avoid.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, it is certainly politics as usual for the Liberal Party. I will give the member this: certainly his comments are completely consistent with the Liberal approach over the last seven and a half years, which is to look for anything, any excuse, anything the Liberals can hang their hat on to oppose government legislation that would either crack down on crime or would update the Criminal Code, and in this case, go against cyberbullying. They are always looking for something, and the ironic part about it is the part that this individual is criticizing. He has got it way off base.

In terms of the bill, the old Bill C-30 that he referred to, the provisions that he and others criticized the most are not in the bill. The provisions here need judicial authorization.

I bring the hon. member's attention to one section that was actually passed by a Liberal government. He had a problem with the voluntary production of preservation orders. I would refer him to section 487.014, which says:

For greater certainty, no production order is necessary for a peace officer or a public officer enforcing or administering this or any other Act...to ask a person to voluntarily provide to the officer...

We are only adding it to preservation orders. What is this individual's problem? It is already in the Criminal Code.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, here we are with the very minister who stood in this House one year ago and said that the provisions of Bill C-30 were not coming back and that they had listened to Canadians.

There are 47 clauses in the bill, and 37 of them are from Bill C-30, so the minister who stands up in self-righteous indignation about the Liberals and what is in the code, on 37 instances, has broken his word to the Canadian people.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for my colleague from Charlottetown.

Does this mean that the Liberals support clauses 1 to 7 of Bill C-13 regarding cyberbullying and the sharing of intimate images?

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her question.

I completely agree with my colleague from Gatineau. We support that section. As for the other sections, we would like to have more time to study them, as she has already suggested. However, we are prepared to support the clauses regarding cyberbullying today. We thought that addressing that problem was the purpose of this bill.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments of my colleague, and I noticed that one of the references he made during his speech was to a private member's bill that dealt with cyberbullying.

Time and time again, he emphasized the fact that, no doubt, all members of the House would like to see substantial legislation to deal with cyberbullying.

I wonder if he could provide comment. If there were a higher sense of co-operation in the government to work with the opposition, Canadians could see cyberbullying legislation pass relatively quickly, if the government's intent to deal with this very important issue were genuine and it wanted to work with the opposition to deal with this issue.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, actually, thus far in this debate I have seen, quite frankly, some reasons for optimism and some exactly the contrary. I guess it is the case within the Conservative cabinet.

We heard an eminently sensible suggestion, I believe, that the bill should be split. Unfortunately, that did not receive unanimous consent, but very shortly after that we saw the Minister of Justice suggest that he was reaching across the aisle. Then we had the Minister of National Defence come in here on a very partisan rant that would indicate otherwise.

I think we all agree here in this place that the provisions within this bill that deal with the issue are non-contentious. That was the effect of the motion. It was certainly what I intended to convey in the speech. However, the problem is the 37 clauses that have been taken from the e-snooping bill. If we could separate them out, I think we would be almost back to where we were with the private member's bill from the member for Vancouver Centre.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the member could tell us if he has read the cybercrime working group report entitled, “Cyberbullying and the Non-consensual Distribution of Intimate Images”. It is dated June 2013. It was a report done for each of the federal, provincial and territorial ministers of justice and public safety. Perhaps he could take a look at recommendation 4. If the member has not read it, I recommend it to him.

Recommendation 4 requests that the government update the Criminal Code to add things that include data preservation demands and orders; new production orders to trace a specified communication, which I think was one of the things he mentioned; new warrants and production orders for transmission of data and tracking, which is another thing he mentioned; improving judicial oversight while enhancing efficiencies in relation to authorizations, warrants and orders, which is another thing he mentioned; and other amendments to existing offences and investigative powers that will assist in the investigation of cyberbullying and other crimes that implicate electronic evidence.

I think the member will find, if he reads this report, that virtually all of the investigative powers contained in this bill come from that cybercrime working group report, and I recommend that he take a look at this.

Perhaps the member could tell us if he has read this report, and perhaps he could respond directly and tell us what he thinks recommendation 4 is intended to do.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, yes, indeed I have read the report, and the hon. member is quite correct that many of the recommendations contained in the report are reflected in the bill. The problem is that the recommendations that are reflected in the bill are not limited to the scourge of cyberbullying; they are over-broad, and they overreach.

There is absolutely no way that something as broad and overreaching as what is in this bill was contemplated by the parties to that report. That report was directed at the very issue that is contained in the title, but not what is contained in the 37 clauses.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know whether my colleague has noticed the tone of today's speeches.

Earlier, the hon. member for Gatineau showed great sensitivity, which we should all have when dealing with such issues. She talked about how issues that give rise to political discussion in the House can be very emotional for people. This is an extremely delicate and important subject.

Does my colleague not see the parallel that can be drawn between our speeches, which are supposed to focus on the best interests of Canadians, and the frequent bullying that happens on the other side of the House?

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his question.

That is something that I tried to address in my speech. The member is right in saying that we are sometimes too partisan in the House. This bill clearly addresses issues that we can all agree on. In light of that, attacking each other is not good for the public or for our public image.

I completely agree that we need to attack the problems and not each other.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate today in the second reading debate on the protecting Canadians from online crime bill.

The government committed to bringing this legislation forward in the recent Speech from the Throne and has quickly delivered on this promise. This bill is a central part of the government's contribution to addressing the issue of cyberbullying and is a key element of the government's agenda to support victims and punish criminals.

It will not come as a surprise to most people to learn that Canadians have fully embraced the Internet and other mobile communication technologies, such as smart phones and social media, for communicating with friends and family, making new social connections, seeking information and creating websites and blogs.

While most people use the Internet in a constructive manner, there have been an increasing number of heartbreaking stories where young people, in particular, are using the Internet or other electronic media to engage in malicious conduct that leads to serious repercussions for the victim.

Although the issue of bullying itself is an age-old problem, technology has irrevocably changed the nature and scope of bullying. For example, bullying conducted by electronic means is easier, faster and more malicious than ever before. It also has the potential to remain in cyberspace permanently and can be done anonymously.

Over the past few years, cyberbullying is alleged to have played a part in the decision of some young people to take their own lives. These stories are heartbreaking, and I am sure I speak for all Canadians when I express our collective sorrow for these tragic events.

However, these incidents also prompt us as lawmakers to ask what we can do. What can the federal government do to prevent similar tragedies or at least ensure that we can effectively respond to these events if they occur again?

This was the exact question considered this past spring by a federal, provincial and territorial working group on cybercrime. The working group studied and considered whether or not cyberbullying was adequately addressed by the Criminal Code and whether or not there are any gaps that need to be filled.

In July, the Department of Justice, on behalf of all federal, provincial and territorial partners, publicly released the report on cyberbullying and the non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

This working group made nine unanimous recommendations with respect to the criminal law response to cyberbullying. I think it is significant to note that the very first recommendation in the report calls for a multi-pronged and multi-sectoral approach to the issue of cyberbullying and calls for all levels of government to continue to build on their initiatives to address cyberbullying in a comprehensive manner.

I wholeheartedly support this recommendation as it recognizes that cyberbullying cannot be adequately addressed by one initiative, by one level of government. In fact, most experts agree that bullying and cyberbullying are most effectively addressed through education, awareness and prevention activities. Criminal law reform represents a small but key part in this multi-sectoral approach.

Returning to the bill that is currently before us today, I am pleased to note that all of the proposals contained in the bill were recommended by the federal, provincial and territorial working group and are supported by provincial and territorial attorneys general.

The bill has two main goals: to create the new Criminal Code offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images, and to modernize the investigative powers in the Criminal Code to enable the police to effectively and efficiently investigate cyberbullying and other crimes committed via the Internet or that involve electronic evidence.

I ask all the members who have intervened so far and those who will speak following me to consider actually how the police would be able to investigate some of these cyberbullying offences, including the situation that happened in the Amanda Todd case, if we did not have these investigative powers, if the police were not able to preserve the evidence, if the police were not able to track the location of the individual who sent the bullying messages. We all know that Amanda Todd's tormentor is still at large. Would it not be nice if we could locate that person and bring him or her to justice?

I would like to focus the remainder of my remarks on the proposed new offence. The proposed offence would fill a gap related to a form of serious cyberbullying behaviour with respect to the sharing or distribution of nude or sexual images that are later used without the consent of the person depicted.

I think it is important to emphasize that the goal of this offence is not to criminalize the making of these images or even the consensual sharing of these images, such as between intimate partners or friends. Rather, this offence would focus on the behaviour that is more often becoming associated with these images, the distribution of them without the consent of the person depicted.

Quite often, the perpetrator of this behaviour is the ex-partner or ex-spouse of the person depicted in the images who is seeking revenge or looking to humiliate or harass him or her. Specifically, this new offence would prohibit all forms of distribution of these types of images without the consent of the person depicted. To secure a conviction for this offence, a prosecutor would be required to prove that the accused knowingly distributed the images and that the accused distributed the images either knowing the person depicted did not consent to this distribution or being reckless as to whether the person consented.

A key element of the proposed offence is the nature of the image itself. The bill proposes a three part definition of “intimate image” to guide the court in determining whether a particular image is one that could be a subject of the proposed offence. An intimate image is one in which the person depicted was nude or exposing his or her sexual organs or anal region or engaged in explicit sexual activity. The Criminal Code uses similar definitions in the voyeurism section, which is section 162, and the child pornography section, which is section 163.

However, the content of the image on its own would not be enough to qualify the image as an intimate image. The court would also need to be satisfied that the image was one that was taken in circumstances that gave rise to a reasonable expectation of privacy and that the person depicted in that image still retained a reasonable expectation of privacy in the image.

These two elements are key to ensuring that the proposed offence is not cast too broadly and does not capture images in which there could be no reasonable privacy interest. For example, if a person took sexual images of him or herself in the privacy of his or her own home for the individual's own personal use, the image would likely be found to be an intimate image. However, if that same person then posted those images on a public website, it is less likely that the court would find that the individual would retain a reasonable expectation of privacy, despite the fact that the initial recording of the image was privately done.

The proposed offence would be supported by several complementary amendments in the Criminal Code to provide protection to victims of this particularly contemptible form of cyberbullying. These complementary amendments would permit the court to order the removal of intimate images from the Internet and other digital networks, as well as make an order for restitution to cover some of the expenses incurred in having those images removed.

Further, the court would be empowered to order the forfeiture of tools or property used in the commission of the offence, such as a Smartphone or computer, as well as a prohibition order to restrict the use of a computer or the Internet by a convicted offender. This prohibition order would be essentially useful in cases of repeat offenders.

The legislation also proposes to permit the court to issue a peace bond against a person who has intimate images in his or her possession where there are reasonable grounds to fear that the new offence would be committed by that person. The proposed new offence and complementary amendments fill an existing gap in the criminal law and aim to provide broad protection to victims of this behaviour.

The point I just mentioned about getting a prohibition order against the use of these images when we know the person already has the images is very important. Now we will be able to intervene in a situation where we know these images exist and we suspect that a person might be about to use them for a bullying purpose and therefore we will be able to get them before they go out on the Internet, and that is very important.

I would like to refer to a couple of comments that Canadians have made about this bill since its introduction a couple of weeks ago. On November 20, Carol Todd, the mother of Amanda Todd, said:

It's a step in the right direction. The only thing that was going through my mind was that if this was in place three years ago when I first started reporting the things that were happening to Amanda…I think my daughter would be here.

Lianna McDonald of the Canadian Centre for Child Protection said that Bill C-13 “will assist in stopping the misuse of technology and help numerous young people impacted and devastated by this type of victimization”.

David Butt, counsel to the Kids' Internet Safety Alliance, said in The Globe and Mail on November 21, “the new bill is a great improvement over trying to fit the round peg of this particular problem into the square hole of our existing child pornography laws”.

On November 21 on CTV News, Allan Hubley, Ottawa city councillor and father of an unfortunate bullied teen who took his own life, said:

When we were younger, you always knew who your bully was, you could do something about it. Now, up until the time this legislation gets enacted, they can hide behind that.

I want to point out he was talking about the timing of the passing of this legislation. He further said, “Not only does it start to take the mask off of them, through this legislation there is serious consequences for their actions”.

In addition, on November 21 in The Huffington Post, Mr. Glen Canning, the father of Rehtaeh Parsons, said:

I am very grateful to hear that [Minister of Justice] and Public Safety Minister...have announced new legislation that will address this disgusting crime that devastated our daughter Rehtaeh.

In addition, the editorial in The Province newspaper on November 22 read as follows:

Changes in the law proposed in the bill will allow the police to drag the predators behind these awful crimes out from the shadows and into the blazing light of justice in courtrooms. Many will go to jail, which is right.

Finally, I would like to note that Mr. Gil Zvulony, a well-known Toronto Internet lawyer, said, “there is a logical theme to all of this, in the sense that it’s trying to modernize [the code] for the digital age”.

While this legislation is not a complete answer to the broad social phenomenon that is cyberbullying, it is a key piece of the broader response to address this complex issue. I strongly urge all members of the House to support it.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice for his speech. I am happy to see both parliamentary secretaries to the Minister of Justice in the House, and I would like to make sure that they have understood the message fully. That is my question for my hon. colleague.

We all agree on the importance of working on cyberbullying with respect to the distribution of intimate images, which is the subject of clause 3. That is key to the issue he referred to when he talked about the Todd and Parsons families and all the others. However, for the other 40-some clauses about aspects that are less well known and have not been discussed as much, will the parliamentary secretary be understanding and give the committee the time it needs to study them? Can we get some assurance that this will not be pushed through at top speed, leaving us all with our concerns unresolved? Will we get a chance to do our job properly, for once?

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoy working with the hon. member on the justice committee. I find she often raises very valid and useful perspectives at committee.

However, there is a need to move quickly on this. That was outlined in the quote I read earlier from Mr. Hubley, whose son was unfortunately the subject of bullying and took his life some two or three years ago, I believe.

I would also like to point out for the member that all of the provincial and territorial ministers of justice and safety requested that the Criminal Code be updated to provide the police with the investigative tools to investigate not only cyberbullying, but things like child pornography and other forms of bullying that happen over the Internet. It is not just sexual bullying over the Internet, but other forms of bullying as well.

As I pointed out earlier, the tormentor of Amanda Todd is still at large. We would like to give the police the tools to track that individual down and bring that individual to justice.

Virtually all of the recommendations for updating the code are set out in the Cybercrime Working Group recommendation 4.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to continue my discussion with the parliamentary secretary on the subject of the FPT report . It is the case that there were several recommendations that found their way into this bill.

My question for the parliamentary secretary is if he would accept that in some, if not all, of the modernizations that have taken place, the reach is much broader than the scourge of cyberbullying. For example, I would specifically ask whether the FPT report had any intentions of dealing with anything touching communication from cable stealing to hate speech.

The other thing I would invite the parliamentary secretary to touch on is what I have referred to as the poison pill. Regarding the provision of immunity to those who voluntarily disclose information to law enforcement officials that is contained in this bill, would the parliamentary secretary accept that this immunity would not extended to information provided pursuant to cyberbullying? It is not so limited, it is all-encompassing.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is quite correct. There are some additional powers beyond those recommended in the Cybercrime Working Group report. The government has taken the opportunity to update the Criminal Code to enable our investigative authorities to investigate things like child pornography or terrorism. These are all things that need to be done. The Criminal Code needs these amendments.

With respect to the cable, I would like the member to consider if his cable were being tapped into by someone who was transmitting child pornography over the Internet, or if his home Wi-Fi was being tapped into by someone who was using it to cyberbully another child, he would want to know about that and he would want that to stop. The modernization of those provisions is simply to bring them up to date.

The amendments proposed on those long-standing offences of stealing cable are already in the Criminal Code in section 327. They simply update the telecommunication language to expand the conduct, to make it consistent with other offences, such as importation and makes available to the prohibited conduct, which is also set out in section 327. These are really in the manner of housekeeping amendments, which need to be done to make those particular provisions more effective.

However, I would like him to think about the potential for someone who is doing cyberbullying, transmitting child sexual images, or perhaps planning a terrorist act, doing it by tapping into some law-abiding citizen's cable or Wi-Fi Internet access.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the parliamentary secretary. We have two excellent parliamentary secretaries, as was mentioned. As chair of the justice and human rights committee, we have worked very well with all parties in putting aside the appropriate time to deal with the issues that have come in front of the committee. I assume that will continue in the future.

At the end of the day, Bill C-13, which is related to other legislation that our government has done in the past, is to help protect victims. It is not about the perpetrators. It is about the victims and what we as a government can do to help the security and safety of all Canadians and those who have, unfortunately, become victims.

Could the parliamentary secretary comment on why this is important legislation for victims of cyberbullying?

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is obviously very important for the victims. We have victims in well known, reported cases who have asked the government and have spoken out publicly for these types of crimes to be addressed. Also, there are victims we do not know about. There are perhaps thousands of young people who have been cyberbullied in various ways. Some have suffered greatly as a result of that. Some may even have taken their own lives. We do not know their stories. Their stories have not been told and we need to reach out to those victims as well.

We need to ensure that all our criminal laws redress what we have seen over the years as an imbalance between the rights of the offender and the rights of the victims and law-abiding citizens of Canada. When we do that, we restore the faith of the Canadian people in the justice system, and that is very important.

[Paulina Ayala, NDP, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, something is bothering me. I agree that our children need to be protected and that we need to protect victims of bullying.

I clearly remember that my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord moved Motion No. 385. I would like to ask the following question. Why did the Conservative Party reject that motion? It would have allowed us to already have a national strategy in place. I would like an answer to that question.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the member was referring to a private member's motion previously brought forward by a member from Vancouver. I do not know if it referred to cyberbullying. In response to the Liberal critic's comment is that this motion was not well designed. It did not include the investigative powers necessary to allow the police to actually investigate crimes, preserve the evidence of cyberbullying and to locate and arrest those responsible for the offence. However, I would be happy to speak to my colleague about Motion No. 385, that she refers to, at a later date.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I will let the hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour know that we will not have the full 20 minutes that he may have been planning on for his remarks. I will need to interrupt him at about 5:30 p.m., that being the end of the time allowed for government orders for today.

Of course, he will have the remaining time when the House next resumes debate on the bill.

The hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to rise for what time I have to speak to Bill C-13.

Bill C-13 was introduced by the government to deal with the issue of cyberbullying. That is how it was lauded in the foyer of this chamber last week. That is primarily how it has been discussed by the minister and by the parliamentary secretary. They would suggest that it is focused entirely on dealing with the problem of cyberbullying.

My colleague, our justice critic, the member for Gatineau, has pointed out that the bill would deal with two very serious issues. It would deal with cyberbullying, but then it would also deal with the whole question of the invasive interception of signals and the power given to authorities, which it may in fact overreach. There have been concerns raised by privacy experts, by digital experts, that the government is being too cute by half, frankly, by trying to hide changes under the auspices of modernizing the Criminal Code and as changes to the Criminal Code simply to deal with the issue of cyberbullying.

We are very concerned about this. My colleague brought forward a very sensible motion, asking the government and other members of the House to split the bill. We have almost unanimous agreement in the House that the matter of cyberbullying needs to be addressed, and it needs to be addressed now. We all recognize the fact that there is a gap in the Criminal Code that needs to be closed. We need to focus on that. We need to target that. We can deal with it in a manner that is expeditious. We can have some debate in the House. We can send it to committee. We can hear from affected families and hear from experts, and undoubtedly come to some agreement to ensure that piece of legislation gets through and gets enacted into law. That can be done, as I said, very expeditiously.

However, the government has decided to be, I would say, less than transparent. It would not be a surprise for anyone to hear me accuse the government of being less than straightforward. It is introducing amendments that would simply complicate the matter and would create some problems.

I would suggest there is no question and it concerns me that the minister and the government have been extraordinarily disingenuous with this. It concerns me considerably, as a member of Parliament, as a politician, that the current government is frankly playing on the emotions of the families involved, of individuals in this country who want to see this matter addressed. Frankly, that is shameful. Even though I have been around the House for a while and this game for a while, nonetheless, it shocks me when I see acts of this kind.

Let me take members back to why it is that we are dealing with the question of cyberbullying and its problems.

It certainly came to my attention very quickly and very starkly last spring when 17-year-old Rehtaeh Parsons took her life. Her parents found her hanging in the bathroom of their house. This young woman was being bullied, was being harassed, was being cyberbullied as a result of an incident that had happened two years previously, where intimate images of her were being transmitted on the Internet without her consent and with malicious intent.

The evidence would suggest that those actions and the subsequent ganging up and piling on of individuals and the distribution of those images had the effect of that young woman feeling that she was completely without hope, and she took her own life.

The Government of Nova Scotia responded quickly, I would suggest. Back in 2011 there had been a cyberbullying task force chaired by Wayne MacKay. It had done some impressive work and made some important recommendations about cyberbullying. The task force had consulted with young people in all sectors throughout the province and had come up with a set of recommendations that were clearly there, at hand. The government immediately moved to put some of those into place and to develop a response to this tragedy. It was not just Rehtaeh and Amanda Todd. There was Jamie Hubley and there was Pam Murchison's young daughter in Nova Scotia who was bullied online and took her life.

This is far too often, and it is a situation that clearly has reached a stage where we finally recognize as a society that this is behaviour that has to stop. The government of this land has to bring forward changes to the Criminal Code, to the laws of the land, to ensure that people are held accountable, that people understand that there are consequences to these violent acts and that they will be held accountable.

Changing the laws is not all that needs to be done. There is much more that needs to be done and I will talk more about that later on or perhaps tomorrow, depending on how much time I have.

Last spring in late April or early May, Rehtaeh's mom came to Ottawa with her husband and met with the Minister of Justice and the Prime Minister to talk to them about the issue, about the fact that they wanted to see some action. Not only was the Minister of Justice there but the premier was also with her, supporting the family. They wanted to talk to the Prime Minister and government about what was being done and what they thought the Government of Canada could do to help in the response, because it has to be a collaborative response at all different levels.

The same day, Rehtaeh's mom came and visited with the Leader of the Opposition, my colleague, the member for Gatineau, and me. We listened to them and to their anguish and their cry for action on behalf of the government to try to ensure that the tragic circumstances that led to the death of their daughter did not continue, and the Government of Canada did what it could.

We asked the justice minister of Nova Scotia and the Parsons what they felt needed to be done. They talked about a gap in the Criminal Code. The minister of justice specifically referred to section 162 and some changes that needed to occur in order to ensure the gap was closed. They also told us that the government had given some commitment to act and to move forward on some of these things. We made a commitment. We said to Leah, “What can we do, as the official opposition?” She told us that we could help push the government and asked us to do what we could to get the government to move forward to act on this, as they indicated they would. We all made that commitment to them that we would hold the government's feet to the fire and move it forward.

From that, we came up with a private member's bill, which was later tabled and I was very proud to sponsor, but it was from the official opposition. It was from our leader, our justice critic and other members who are concerned about this issue, all members of our caucus.

I tabled Bill C-540 on our behalf, which was a piece of legislation specifically targeted toward the issue of the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. It laid out penalties. It was targeted. It was not 60 pages. It was one, maybe two pages.

The reason I raise that is that we introduced it in the spring before the session ended and said to the government, “Here you go. This is what we think. We have consulted with experts on this issue and this is the best advice that we have received to deal with this issue. This is our recommendation on how to close that gap. We can do it and we can do it quickly.” We asked the government to move. That was before the House adjourned. We hoped that we would see some action in early September.

It did not matter to me if the government passed Bill C-540, sponsored by Robert Chisholm. That did not matter. I wanted the government to move forward on this issue. I was excited, even though the government decided to prorogue the House and delay everything and not come back until the middle of October rather than the middle of September, further delaying dealing with this issue. Nonetheless, it indicated in the throne speech that it was going to move forward on the issue. Again, I was encouraged by that.

Here we are another month later and the government, while it has moved forward with changes to the Criminal Code to deal with cyberbullying, could not help itself. It had to shove some more stuff into it. It had to try to hide some other things in behind those important provisions. It had to muck it up by dealing with issues that were contentious, coming from a piece of legislation that got driven out of the House last year, Bill C-30. It brought those provisions in through the back door and tried to hide them behind the cyberbullying provisions, thinking nobody would notice.

I can tell members that I am focused like a laser on trying to get these changes to the Criminal Code on cyberbullying through on behalf of not only Rehtaeh's family, the Todds and other families across this country, but anybody, any adult who has had violence committed upon them as a result of the non-consensual distribution of intimate images, sometimes known as revenge porn. I am focused like a laser to make sure that we get these changes through the House. However, I cannot tell members how much it sickens me that the government is bringing forward other changes that are making the bill extremely complicated. There will be people coming forward at committee who will be raising serious concerns about what else the bill does, other than with respect to cyberbullying.

If the government was serious it would have paid attention to the motion introduced by my colleague, the member for Gatineau, to split the bill, to separate sections 1 to 7 and section 26, I believe it was, into a bill on cyberbullying so we could deal with that and get it done. The remainder would be an issue the justice committee would deal with at some length.

It is an important and complicated issue. It is a matter that must be dealt with. It must be dealt with in a number of ways. I will talk about that tomorrow.

My time is almost up. I want to talk a bit about the whole question of bullying and how we need a national strategy like the one introduced by my colleague, the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord. We need that kind of commitment to deal with bullying and cyberbullying.

I hope that we can deal with this once and for all on behalf of the government. I look forward to continuing my remarks tomorrow.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

The hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour will have five minutes to complete his speech when the debate resumes.

It being 5:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

The House resumed from November 27 consideration of the motion that Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour has five minutes left for his remarks.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise and finish my intervention on Bill C-13 which is an act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act, and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act.

I want to talk for a couple of moments about some of what I said yesterday.

Bill C-13 was introduced with some considerable fanfare. Provisions in it would close the gap in the Criminal Code to make the non-consensual distribution of intimate images an offence and would deal with the definition of malicious intent.

This is a topic that the official opposition tried to deal with when we brought in a private member's bill, Bill C-540, in the spring, and subsequently encouraged the government at every opportunity to recognize the tragedies that were taking place out there as people of all ages, mostly women, had acts of violence being committed upon them. Whether it is called revenge porn or otherwise, people—sometimes partners, sometimes others—with malicious intent and with violent intent were distributing intimate images of those individuals.

I spoke to a situation in my riding involving 17-year-old Rehtaeh Parsons, who took her own life as a result of the situation she was involved in. She was allegedly raped, and the images of that were subsequently transmitted widely on the Internet.

I want to speak to that for a second. That young woman took her life because she believed that the worldwide distribution of those intimate images of her by her friends, by members of her community, and by others had sufficiently destroyed her reputation that she felt she had no way out.

Frankly, it is intolerable that the system was unable to support her. Her community, her schools, and the institutions and support services of the greater community of the Halifax regional municipality were unable to support her. As a result of that, the Province of Nova Scotia moved to make some changes, and I will speak to that in a moment.

Suffice it to say that the bill is extremely important for what it does in this regard. As I said yesterday, it is my belief and the belief of many on this side that had the government done what we tried to do with Bill C-540, which was to bring in a piece of legislation that was directly targeted toward the act of cyberbullying, then it would be unanimously approved by members of the House. We would move it to committee. We would hear from families, from people affected, and from experts, and we would deal with the matter and change the law. We would get it enacted and change it.

What the government has decided to do is to tie questions about the extension of its powers of surveillance to the bill. Many people, both in this country and beyond, have indicated that they have some concerns with that, and likely it will result in extensive discussion and conversation.

I want to add that dealing with bullying and cyberbullying means much more than just changing the law. We need to engage in national strategies. We need to provide supports. Whether through education or through health services, mental health and otherwise, we need to make sure that there is a plan, that there is a strategy for educating and supporting people to make sure not only that people realize that bullying and cyberbullying are wrong but that the supports are there for the victim.

We will be supporting this bill moving forward to second reading, but I urge the government to consider our motion to split the bill.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech and for his ideas in regard to this important legislation.

I would like to know what concerns or fears he has in regard to the add-ons that the government has placed in the bill. These add-ons perhaps give too much power or opportunity for persons in authority to undermine the privacy of Canadians.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my primary focus in respect to the bill is the same that it was when I brought in Bill C-540: to change the law to close the gap in the Criminal Code to make it an offence, and make it clear that it is an offence, to distribute intimate images without permission. That is an odious and violent practice that has to stop.

My concern is that the government has tried to tag on other changes to the Criminal Code regarding surveillance powers. They are changes that Canadians are concerned about. Experts have expressed that it is an overreach by the government and by authorities. It may have the impact of causing additional concern and distracting people from the intent that I have, which is to close the gap in the Criminal Code and make it an offence to participate in the act of cyberbullying.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the member a bit about the overreaching to which he referred.

Prior to Bill C-13's coming into effect, the evidentiary standard for obtaining a warrant for electronic records in many cases was “reasonable and probable grounds to believe” the commission of an offence. That evidentiary standard is being lowered from “reasonable and probable grounds to believe” to “reasonable suspicion”. In order to be able to use the access to information laws to get records from a minister's office, the standard is “reasonable and probable grounds” to believe that the records are within the control of the office.

My question for the member is this: does he believe that ordinary Canadians who have electronic records in the possession of third parties should have those records more easily accessed than those that are in ministers' offices?

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member for Charlottetown's questions because they are very serious questions. The issues he raises are extremely serious, and they have been raised by a number of experts in this field over the days following the introduction of Bill C-13. Exactly those questions and the serious nature of those questions are really the basis of my concern. That is why I have urged the government to split Bill C-13.

It had originally introduced this legislation as being directed toward making it an offence to participate in the act of cyberbullying, which involved eight clauses: clauses 1 to 7, plus clause 26. Then the following 55 or so pages deal with matters that are not focused on the question of cyberbullying.

The motion by my colleague, the member for Gatineau, was that we would split the bill. We would deal with the issue of cyberbullying, a matter of sufficient consequence that it needs the full attention of the House. Then we would deal with the surveillance issues and the powers that the government would like to see expanded for authorities in a separate manner. These are two consequential issues, and it is incumbent upon us to stay focused on each of them.

However, my focus at the moment is on the offence of cyberbullying. That is what I want to see us deal with here today.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, there is another part of this bill that deeply concerns me, and that is the provision of immunity to holders of electronic records, including telecommunications companies and Internet service providers. This immunity would extend to these entities such that if they were to voluntarily disclose information to law enforcement officials, they would not be subject to criminal sanction, nor would they be subject to any civil proceedings.

I would like to hear the views of my hon. friend with respect to that immunity that would be afforded, in that it would not be limited to cyberbullying investigations.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very important issue. It is a very important part of the bill and it needs the attention of the justice committee and other members of this House.

When the Minister of Justice introduced the bill with great fanfare outside, wrapping his arms around the families of those young people who took their own lives as a result of cyberbullying, he suggested that was the focus of this legislation, and we took him at his word.

However, what came to be apparent very quickly when we saw the details of the bill was that it contained matters far beyond the issue of cyberbullying, as if cyberbullying were not important enough.

We are talking about a practice of bullying on steroids, bullying that has been torqued up to the extent that people who are completely unknown to one another can create the kind of violence and damage to a person's reputation that we have never heard of before. They do it in anonymity, without any sense that they are going to be held accountable.

It is incumbent upon all of us here in this House, especially the government, to recognize it as a that scourge we need to deal with. That is what we need to focus on. The fact that the Conservatives have brought so many other important matters into this one piece of legislation is a question of playing politics, and it is unconscionable. I apologize to the families of Rehtaeh Parsons and Amanda Todd that the government is conducting itself in this manner.

However, as I have said before, I will stay focused, as I know my colleagues will, in ensuring that the matters relevant to cyberbullying get dealt with and that we do our jobs as members of Parliament and members of the justice committee to ensure that the legislation that passes through this House does what we intend it to do.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak today in support of Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act.

The legislation would make Canada a safer place by closing the gaps in criminal law by providing police officers with the tools they need to properly investigate crimes in the age of Internet communications. If I may, I would like to spend my time today talking about the elements of Bill C-13, which deal with the new and updated investigative tools that the legislation would provide to the police.

I would like to emphasize that nothing in the bill creates authority for warrantless access to personal information. This is my first point because I want to make it clear that proposals for access to subscriber information from former Bill C-30 the protecting children from Internet predators act, which were so controversial and so very unpopular, are not included in this legislation.

Bill C-13 and its proposals to modernize investigative tools for police, represent a giant leap forward for Canadian police by giving them tools for modern technology and investigations. These are the same tools our international partners have been using for years. These new investigative powers not only provide police with the judicially authorized tools they need to collect evidence in a modern telecommunications environment, they also take into account advances in technology and the potential impacts they have on the privacy of Canadians. In other words, they give police the tools they need to effectively investigate today's crimes, while ensuring the privacy of Canadians is properly considered.

I do not think it is an overstatement to say that technology has fundamentally changed the way we communicate with each other. The possibilities and opportunities that new technologies open up for us are nothing short of incredible. However, with the great potential comes great risk. The Internet and other new technologies allow criminals to commit identity theft in Switzerland, while sitting in a cafe in Halifax. It has also facilitated the explosive growth of sexual exploitation offences, such as the distribution of child pornography. As we have recently seen, it can provide an online forum for criminal harassment and extortion two criminal forms of cyberbullying.

An important consideration for the legislation before us is that technology has changed the type of evidence left behind after a crime has been committed. Scotland Yard estimates that over 80% of all crimes, whether a fraud committed over the Internet or an assault in a bar, have some form of telecommunications evidence associated with them.

The legislative proposals in the bill will not only assist police in investigating online crime, but also all crimes that involve electronic devices.

The guiding principle for the bill was to ensure that the Internet and other new communications technologies did not create a safe haven for activities that were otherwise unlawful. To prevent this from happening, Bill C-13 proposes to amend a number of existing offences in the Criminal Code to ensure that the Internet and other modes of communications are covered. For example, proposed amendments to subsection 372.3 of the Criminal Code with respect to harassing telephone calls will not only modernize the language of that provision, but also make it applicable in some cyberbullying situations.

Because so many of today's crimes are being committed online and using Internet-based technologies, we must ensure that our investigative tools are designed with this technological environment in mind.

Another important element of Bill C-13 is the proposal to update the existing production order scheme. A production order is a judicially authorized order that requires a third party to provide police with documents containing information connected to an investigation. There are currently two types of production orders in the Criminal Code: those relating to financial information and those relating to any other type of data that might be needed to conduct an investigation.

Often the requirements of an investigation are quite targeted. In those cases it makes sense to create specific tools that are designed to obtain specific types of data that also reflects the expectation of privacy associated with that kind of data.

As such, the bill proposes to retain the two existing production orders already found in the Criminal Code, but it also proposes three more to deal with the specific types of data associated with modern technology. These would include judicially authorized production orders for the following: first, data related to the dialing, routing, addressing or signalling of telecommunications, which would be known as transmission data; two, data relating to the whereabouts of a person, transaction or thing, which would be called tracking data; and third, data relating to the tracing of specified communications.

This last type of production order is particularly important, as it would allow police, for example, to trace the origin of an email, which would be extremely useful for identifying someone who is engaging in cyberbullying, specifically criminally harassing an individual, but has used several IP addresses to conceal his or her identity.

As I mentioned earlier, some of the proposals reflect the impact on personal privacy that advances in technology have brought. Police have been able to get judicial warrants to track individuals or things for 20 years now. As we can imagine, technology has changed a lot in that time. Where we were once able to track people with only limited accuracy, there are now technologies, like GPS, that can track the location of a person with much greater precision.

To take account of this, the bill proposes to increase the threshold necessary to get a tracking warrant in order to track an individual. Specifically, the police would now need to demonstrate that they have reasonable grounds to believe, as opposed to reasonable grounds to suspect, that an individual has or will be committed and that tracking an individual's movement will assist in the investigation of that offence.

The existing lower threshold warrant will still be retained for tracking things such as vehicles. We believe the new amendment regarding individuals is a significant privacy enhancement. This dual approach will allow police to retain the efficiency of the lower threshold warrant for tracking things, while increasing the privacy protection in situations of tracking individuals where there are greater privacy interests at play. This is an example of what we call privacy with precision.

The bill proposes to create some new tools designed to respond to the special demands of the digital environment, the preservation demand and the preservation order. These new tools would provide for a quick freeze of data. They would ensure that a person or business preserves a specific set of data long enough for a police officer to get a judicial warrant or order to obtain that data. Let me be clear, that preservation would not be confused with the types of data retention schemes we see in other places around the globe.

The bill does not ask a company to collect everyone's information and keep it on hand indefinitely or for a certain length of time. That is data retention and the bill is not proposing data retention. Rather, this proposed amendment addresses the highly perishable nature of digital information.

For example, a company might be required to preserve data related to a specific transaction that it would normally keep in order to further an investigation of identity theft. This data would be preserved only for a limited amount of time in relation to a specific investigation.

This kind of tool is essential to our ability to conduct effective investigations in an era where crucial evidence can be deleted in the blink of an eye. The preservation demand and preservation order will give police enough time to go to a judge and get the warrants or orders they need to subsequently obtain this highly volatile evidence.

Before I conclude my remarks, I would like to point out that one of the common myths I have heard opposition members and media alike talk about is that Bill C-13 would make it illegal to steal a cable signal. The fact is, it is already illegal to steal cable signals. This behaviour is prohibited by sections 326 and 327 of the Criminal Code. It is a type of theft.

The amendments proposed in Bill C-13 to these long-standing offences will update the telecommunication language to expand the conduct that it covers making it consistent with other offences. For example, it will add imports or “makes available” to the prohibited content in section 327.

The bill would also make section 327 a hybrid dual procedure offence, which would give prosecutors more discretion in their charging practices depending on the seriousness of the offence.

Further, the amendments proposed to repeal the definition of telecommunications found in section 326 and the criminal law will rely instead on the statutory definition of telecommunications in the Interpretation Act. This is not a substantive change.

In conclusion, I would like to add that the government undertook extensive consultations with stakeholders from industry, police and privacy advocates across the country in developing these amendments. With their input, this bill achieves the right balance between promoting safety and security and protecting the rights of all Canadians.

I hope all members appreciate the importance of this bill. Our police need modern tools for modern times. Bill C-13 would provide them with just that.

I have heard encouraging words from all sides of the House on this important debate and I urge all hon. members to give the bill their full support.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his presentation, which I followed closely.

Not so long ago I was a full-time teacher spending my days surrounded by teenagers. Some of them had already been victims of cyberbullying. People are saying this is an urgent matter. I would add that not only is it urgent, but we have some ground to make up.

In this new Bill C-30, certain items that caused division among us, including privacy protection, have resurfaced. I have some questions for my colleague.

From time to time, could the House not send a strong message to Canadians by unanimously and quickly passing bill?

Addressing cyberbullying and focusing our efforts on a bill solely devoted to this issue would send Canadians a very strong message on our will to do something about this.

Would it not be a good idea to split this bill to study both issues separately? We could make progress on the issue of cyberbullying quite quickly and come back to the issues that require further discussion later.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have heard a lot of debate on this bill and clearly this issue is very important for all of us. We worry about our children and young people in an age where technology has clearly moved faster than legislation or regulation. This bill brings together a number of elements that we believe as a government fully integrate the need to address these issues at one time.

Incidentally, I agree that the bill should be passed quickly and unanimously in the House, and I have heard good things from the opposition and my colleague that is what should happen. We should come together and pass the bill as it is written. I thank the member opposite for his agreement on that issue.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I realize that the Conservative talking points on this bill are that there is no longer any provision for warrantless search.

Clause 20 of the bill, proposed section 487.0195, reads:

(1) For greater certainty, no preservation demand, preservation order or production order is necessary for a peace officer or public officer to ask a person to voluntarily preserve data...to voluntarily provide a document to the officer that the person is not prohibited by law from disclosing.

The next proposed subsection reads:

(2) A person who preserves data or provides a document in those circumstances does not incur any criminal or civil liability for doing so.

That is what we call the poison pill. It provides immunity for holders of electronic records to voluntarily hand them over to police. It is akin to a warrantless search anytime a co-operative organization or corporation keeps those records.

We all know that telecoms and Internet service providers routinely provide information to advertisers.

My question for the member is: Does he still stand by the Conservative talking points, given it is in black and white in the bill that there is not only permission but encouragement for record keepers to co-operate with authorities with immunity?

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will just repeat what I read earlier. In my presentation I spoke to warrantless grounds in the bill. Clearly that is what is in this bill.

Let me quote Jeff McGuire, Niagara Regional Police Chief, who said:

It is definitely a step in the right direction.... The chiefs of police association has long been asking for some assistance from the government and some tools to deal with this type of new communication.

Clearly, we as a government believe that we have to deliver new regulations, new legislation to deal with current technologies that have moved so quickly. This bill clearly does just that.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague gave an excellent speech on this particular topic. We heard a number of speeches in the House on it yesterday, including from the opposition.

In general most of us around the table agree that we need to move forward on the cyberbullying bill and continue to tackle this problem. The minister has been at the justice committee, which I chair, even as of today, defending the estimates. There was a discussion about this particular piece of legislation. The minister clearly indicated that there was no such thing as a warrantless search as there had been in previous legislation that had been brought forward.

My question to my colleague is this. At the end of the day the bill is about protecting victims of cyberbullying. Why do you believe it is important for us as parliamentarians to move to help protect victims of these crimes?

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Before I go to the member, I will remind all hon. members to direct their comments to the chair and not directly to their colleagues.

The hon. member for Don Valley West.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am a parent and a grandparent. I have concerns about my children in this day and age of technology.

I have watched my three-year-old grandson navigate through an iPad, and I do not have any idea how he moves through the technology. Clearly, in today's world there is so much access to different types of attacks on our children. Obviously, entertainment is one thing that we want our children to have, but I think we also have to be wise in what we allow them to watch or see.

Clearly, there are elements who take advantage of our children and our grandchildren in this world. We have all heard horrible stories. A member spoke earlier about a resident in his community who committed suicide, with no hope, feeling perhaps that her life had been ruined.

This bill brings hope to all Canadians. It brings us an opportunity to put regulation and legislation in place that will protect our children and our grandchildren from those who would take advantage of them. I think it does exactly what it was intended to do when the Minister of Justice introduced it.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was intrigued to hear the member for Don Valley West say in his speech that the threshold for court orders in cases where it is personal information is higher in this bill than the threshold for things when, in fact, those of us looking at it would think that “reasonable cause to suspect” is actually a lower threshold than “reasonable cause to believe”.

If in fact the intent of the government is to make it a more difficult task to get personal information through a warrant, would the member for Don Valley West be willing to support an amendment to this bill to correct this mistake?

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, no, that was not the intent of my remarks. Clearly, “reasonable grounds to believe” would provide an element of security in this bill that we believe would meet the needs of protecting, particularly, the privacy of those who are being investigated and those who are victims. Clearly I believe, as I mentioned, that the bill as worded would meet the objectives.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is very important for me to rise today in the House to speak to Bill C-13.

Before I begin my argument, I think it essential to show the government how ready the NDP is to work with it. I will simply lay the foundation for my argument, so that it is not misinterpreted by some people in the House who unfortunately tend to turn our words around and throw them back at us.

I am very disappointed. I think of myself as still being young. I hope that I am still young. Not so long ago, I too was in school and was a victim of bullying. I think it is extremely important to demonstrate that a parliament wants to help people. As I have said many times, the role of a parliament and a government is to give a voice to people who are too weak to defend themselves or who unfortunately have not had the same opportunities as others to be able to feel equal and face difficult times in their life. All of us have gone through adolescence. Some adults are also sometimes victims of bullying.

First of all, we were all on the same wavelength when my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour introduced his Bill C-540, because we had learned of a number of young teenagers who unfortunately had decided to take their own lives. Perhaps they were thinking they had no other way out. Today it is our role to reach out a hand to young people and to provide the resources needed by those who can help these young people see the light at the end of the tunnel, get through a difficult period and become accomplished and fulfilled adults, like all of us.

As some members have mentioned in their speeches, it is a great pity, because the government decided to vote against our bill, which had exactly the same purpose and objectives as the cyberbullying provisions in Bill C-13, which the government now wants to pass.

Why did they stand in opposition to our bill? We will probably never have an answer, but that is okay. The government has its prerogatives. What is more, this is a majority government. It wanted the privilege of introducing this sort of legislation. I understand. It has its prerogatives.

However, given the fact that this is such an important issue that affects so many people, it is regrettable that the Conservatives decided, as usual, to present us with a bill at least 50 pages in length, where only the first five talk about cyberbullying—and that is a considerably rounded figure so as to give them a little leeway—while the other 50 talk about totally different things that have no tangible connection to cyberbullying. That is why the government chose to move from a bill on cyberbullying to a bill whose title contains the words “from online crime”.

As I said, and this is precisely why I wanted to make the basis of my argument clear right from the beginning, cyberbullying is a problem, and we as legislators have a duty to pass laws to protect young Canadians.

Notwithstanding the respect I owe the government, my argument will unfortunately have to identify certain shortcomings and certain problems in this bill that the government says is intended to address cyberbullying. I would like the people watching today to know that we have asked the government to divide the bill so that the provisions on cyberbullying can be given expeditious examination. Indeed, as many of my colleagues have said, we are all in agreement. That way, we could demonstrate to Canadians that we are prepared, as parliamentarians, to work together to pass positive legislation that will have a tangible impact on the lives of young Canadians.

With the other 50 pages of this bill, which deal with subjects as broad as terrorism, banking services, telecommunications services and so on, we could make a second bill. We could study it in depth, with the experts and the institutions, to know exactly where we are going. In this way we could amend and modernize Canada’s criminal legislation, but—and I emphasize this—still respect our institutions, Parliament and, above all, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives always try to use wedge issues to force their bills down the opposition's throat. They use extremely sensitive issues in order to usher in by the back door bills that would require us to put on our legislator's hat and address these provisions in a logical and informed manner, in committee of course.

I would like to drawn the hon. members’ attention to three little points before beginning to address the government’s shortcomings and missteps in this matter. For example, on cyberbullying, the Criminal Code has to be modernized. We have to ensure that future victims will be protected. As my colleague from Gatineau was saying, the parents of certain victims have said that, yes, this bill might have helped or even saved their child. No one in the House will say otherwise. The cyberbullying provisions need to be passed as quickly as possible.

On the other hand, it is important to remember that the government stated in its throne speech that it intended to invest in addressing bullying. Bill C-13 was probably part of the first step in that direction, but here we are talking about long-term prevention. However the government voted against our motion to have Parliament consider the issue of bullying in order to adopt a national strategy for helping the people on the ground who must be able to support young people going through a difficult period. Unfortunately, as I have said, the government voted against that motion.

Bill C-13 is a step in the right direction, and we thank the government for having taken the demands of Canadians and Canadian families seriously. However, why did the government vote against a motion that did not require it to do anything, not even to pass a bill? That motion called on Parliament to consider ways of preventing bullying.

I would really like to put the emphasis on prevention. I have a report that was produced by a youth round table. These are young people between the ages of 12 and 17 in Pointe-aux-Trembles, in east Montreal, in my riding.

This round table considered the issue of youth felt to be at risk of joining street gangs or criminal organizations.

The report says that 50% of youth at risk of joining a street gang or a criminal organization said they had been victims of violence. It also says that bullying is the form of violence most cited in the open question asked of the group of young people most at risk, followed by physical violence and verbal abuse. Bullying is therefore the main source of violence among these young people. The report also cites feelings of depression.

It is important to mention that the government's bill includes clauses on cyberbullying. However those clauses cover only offences of a sexual nature. They refer to the non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

I do not want my remarks to be misinterpreted. This is a good thing, except that certain cases, such as situations where people receive repeated hate messages, are not covered in the bill’s clauses on cyberbullying.

I understand that this is a step in the right direction, but if the government truly intends to prevent bullying and to help workers on the ground prevent bullying among young people, these things have to be considered here. A national anti-bullying strategy is extremely important. That is what the people on the ground are saying.

I have a report that concerns only my riding of La Pointe-de-l'Île. However I am fairly certain that the situation is the same in every riding. The people on the ground need a strategy, money and assistance. Therefore, if the government truly intends to help victims of bullying, I hope that Bill C-13 is just a first step in the right direction. This is extremely important.

With regard to the example I was giving of a person receiving text messages, emails and so on, I hope that all of these elements will be considered by the government in the context of an even more general approach to the prevention of bullying.

The minister has rightly expressed his interest in this type of case. He is concerned about the problem of bullying. I sincerely hope that he is listening to my speech today and taking note of what I have said.

It is very important to mention that we really would have liked to see the minister decide to split the bill in two.

We always have to put on our legislator's hat in opposition because the Conservatives unfortunately decide to disregard their responsibilities and we have to point out to them certain deficiencies in their bills.

I really find that unfortunate because we know that several bills have been, or will be, challenged in the courts. It is important for the Conservatives to realize that we must listen to Canadians and to victims.

I want no one to misinterpret my comments, but at same time we have to tell ourselves that the legislation we pass here has an impact on everyone across Canada. It is important to debate here and to have experts testify in committee so that we can pass the best legislation for our fellow citizens.

I would like to mention that my colleague from British Columbia introduced Bill C-279. It is very important and I hope the minister will take note of it. That bill is currently before the Senate.

Clause 12 of Bill C-13 amends the list of groups in the Criminal Code section on hate crimes.

It is important to understand that gender identity is not included in Bill C-13. Consequently, there may be a contradiction between two acts. Bill C-279 has been passed by Parliament and is currently before the Senate. That is why the bill must be divided. Some problems absolutely must be examined in depth. It is unfortunate that the victims of bullying and their families have to wait longer than they should for us to legislate on cyberbullying. Unfortunately, the Conservatives have decided to use this problem as a way to pass an omnibus bill.

Now I will talk about the bad aspects of the bill. We must put on our legislator's hat and clearly assess the problems the committee will have to face. Clause 20 of the bill concerns new procedures for obtaining warrants. As the minister said, the provisions are subject to the judge's interpretation. A warrant is therefore needed. However, it targets metadata. Based on the language the minister uses in the bill, the threshold for obtaining warrants that target metadata is lower. We are talking here about “reasonable grounds to suspect”, not “reasonable and probable grounds”. This will have to be examined with the bar associations and with the experts to determine the language that should be used in the bill so that all warrants are subject to the same burden of proof in the courts.

The bill encourages telecommunications businesses and Internet service providers to respond, without a court order, to requests for information concerning their customers and grants them criminal and civil immunity should they decide to grant those requests. It is extremely important to say that most people agree that the first part of the bill, which concerns cyberbullying, is good. It is really unfortunate that the Conservatives decided to include all kinds of different provisions.

I spoke about terrorism in particular. Why does the bill concern terrorism when we are talking about cyberbullying? Several questions have been raised about companies and the provision of user data to police. I think we really need to ask the experts, such as the Privacy Commissioner, to write a report on the bill. We really must put the necessary tools in place so that authorities are able to enforce the law since the framework of the bill calls for that. It is very important to do that based on expertise specific to the various acts, such as the Competition Act, for example.

I am really pleased to have had a chance to speak to the bill. I can hardly wait for my colleagues' questions.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her speech. I agree with most of what she had to say.

I have a question about the credibility of this government after some of the bills we have seen, like Vic Toews' e-snooping bill. In response to Canadians' reaction to this bill, the former justice minister, now the Minister of National Defence, made an announcement. He said:

We will not be proceeding with Bill C-30 and any attempts that we will continue to have to modernize the Criminal Code will not contain the measures contained in C-30, including the warrantless mandatory disclosure of basic subscriber information or the requirement for telecommunications service providers to build intercept capability within their systems. We’ve listened to the concerns of Canadians who have been very clear on this and responding to that.

The bill before us has 47 clauses, 37 of which have been lifted from Bill C-30. I would appreciate my colleague's comments on whether we can take the government at its word in terms of its interpretation of the bill, given that broken promise.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question and for participating in the debate on Bill C-13.

Unfortunately, this government tends to use wedge issues to slip in some provisions or principles that may not necessarily be the best, even though it knows that Canadians may not want them. It has done this several times. Just look at all of the omnibus budget implementation bills we have had.

As for my colleague's question, I unfortunately do not think we can trust the government. However, there are some things to look at in this bill. That is exactly why he agrees that the bill should be divided, as my colleague from Gatineau suggested, so that we can pass the sections on cyberbullying as quickly as possible and then study the very worrisome provisions more carefully in committee.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as you know, Canadians from coast to coast to coast have been touched and deeply saddened by the tragic deaths of Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd, and so many others. My NDP colleagues and I believe that we need to do everything we can to prevent that cyberbullying.

In fact, I was delighted, just this week, when I got a number of postcards from members of the Catholic Women's League in my riding of Hamilton Mountain as well as others in our community who want us to take action not only to develop a national strategy to stop cyberbullying but to stop the distribution of intimate images.

What has become clear to us is that the lack of legal tools available to intervene when intimate images are being distributed without consent must be addressed urgently. That is why my colleague, the NDP member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, tabled a private member's bill to address that very issue. We wish the Conservatives had just taken this opportunity to work with us on this bill months ago instead of delaying and complicating the issue.

We would have hoped that the government would have been reasonable and would have presented stand-alone legislation to accomplish that goal, but of course, as we know today, it did not. In fact, what we have now, as the member rightly pointed out, is a bill that addresses cyberbullying but also gives police heightened powers of surveillance to track terror suspects as well as individuals who use computer programs to gain unpaid access to WiFi or cable TV services.

Really, that is not what should have been at stake here. I wonder if the member could tell me whether she agrees that this is cynical and disappointing and that there is a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff in the bill that is going to distract from the legitimate discussion on how to fine tune the bill to get it absolutely right for those Canadians who are desperate for a national anti-cyberbullying strategy.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased that my colleague is showing just how much cyberbullying affects all Canadians, in her riding and across Canada.

That is exactly why I started my speech by saying that I feel bad for the victims and their families that the government is using them to force another omnibus bill on us.

Unfortunately, this shows that bullying is not the Conservatives' priority. If it were, they would have supported our Bill C-540 and our motion to create a national bullying prevention strategy.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is an interesting bill, to say the least. The Liberal member for Vancouver Centre also had a private member's bill that dealt with cyberbullying. I suspect that if we were to canvass the House, we would find unanimous support for dealing with cyberbullying. There is no doubt that there is a need for legislation that would enhance our laws and be more effective. There is no doubt about that. All members of Parliament want to see something happen on this front.

If the government really and truly wanted to, given that both the Liberals and New Democrats have expressed a willingness to see this type of legislation and the minister has talked about the importance of it, there is no reason whatsoever that we could not have cyberbullying legislation passed and in place before Christmas. That could be done very easily without any form of time allocation. All it would take would be the goodwill of the government to talk with the appropriate representatives of the parties, and we could make that happen today. We could put in place a mechanism that would ensure that there is anti-cyberbullying legislation today. We could do that.

I am wondering if the member might want to comment and maybe indicate her party's support for an initiative, as I have explained it.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

In point of fact, we did so yesterday. A motion was made for unanimous consent to divide the bill. The cyberbullying provisions would have been deemed read and referred to committee, for consideration to begin directly and for those provisions to be passed as quickly as possible. A second bill would have been created for all the other content in the bill, which has to do with things other than cyberbullying and online crime.

I would just like to say that in this bill, which is over 50 pages long, only the first three or four pages deal with cyberbullying; the remainder deal with other things, such as terrorism and telecommunications data.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from La Pointe-de-l'Île for her very interesting speech. I would like to congratulate her and to congratulate the people of La Pointe-de-l'Île who elected such a hard-working young woman, who is here beside me every day. I am very proud of her, and I am sure that the people of her constituency are too.

This bill is very important, but unfortunately, the Conservatives decided to include things that have nothing to do with cyberbullying. For example, there is a subclause on terrorists and something else on people who steal cable television signals, which has absolutely nothing to do with cyberbullying.

Can she tell me why the Conservatives would have done that?

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe it is clear. The Conservatives are using bullying as a lever to push through the rest of their legislation.

I know that bullying is an issue that affects everyone, and I know that the government wants to legislate against it. On the other hand, unfortunately, the Conservatives are showing that they have neither tact nor respect for this kind of issue.

Why not have drafted two bills, one on bullying and another on online crime? I did not hear any reason. No Conservative member will be able to demonstrate to me that there was a good reason to put all these things in an omnibus bill.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. There have been consultations among the parties, and I believe that if you seek it, you would find unanimous consent for the following motion: I move that this House designate January 21 as Lincoln Alexander Day.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The hon. member for Terrebonne—Blainville.

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise and take part in this debate today.

As all members of this House will agree, cyberbullying is an extremely disturbing phenomenon. When I heard the stories of Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons in the media, I was truly saddened to learn what they had to go through and the pain they had to suffer, which unfortunately led them to suicide.

We have talked at length about Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons, of course, but I want to emphasize that many young people whom we will never hear about have also been victims of cyberbullying and have unfortunately decided to commit suicide as result of this scourge. It is extremely important that we work together as parliamentarians and do everything we can to find solutions to this absolutely appalling phenomenon.

Bullying is obviously nothing new. People have been talking about it for a long time, particularly in the schools, and I myself was bullied when I was young. However, bullying has changed with new technologies.

New technologies afford excellent opportunities. They enable people to learn quickly, to share stories and to socialize without even knowing the other person. Unfortunately, they also make it possible, for example, to distribute pictures of a person against that person's wishes, especially pictures that can harm the person, as in the cases of Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons.

Another aspect of cyberbullying underscores how important it is to take action. Bullying used to occur more in school environments, among a group of friends, but young people were safe when they got home to a no-bullying zone. In the case of cyberbullying, that no-bullying zone unfortunately no longer exists now that there are social media.

Now, when young people get home from school, they open Facebook, Twitter or whatever social medium they may use, and they can see negative comments or photographs published without their consent. Amanda Todd changed schools several times in an attempt to start over. Unfortunately, when photographs are posted on the Internet, they stay there forever. You can never completely delete what is posted there.

That is why one part of this bill is important, and I do mean one part. Only four pages of this 53-page bill address cyberbullying.

I am going to take the time to congratulate my colleagues from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour and Chicoutimi—Le Fjord for raising these issues in the House of Commons. I know that much of what my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour proposed wound up in this bill. I am really proud of that because this is an extremely important issue.

The bill will create a provision on cyberbullying stating that:

Everyone who knowingly publishes, distributes, transmits, sells, makes available or advertises an intimate image of a person knowing that the person depicted in the image did not give their consent to that conduct, or being reckless as to whether or not that person gave their consent to that conduct, is guilty…

This provision is extremely important. I am convinced that every member of the House of Commons would vote now to pass it at all three readings in order to bring it into force.

The problem is that this issue has unfortunately been used. There are four pages on cyberbullying. What did the government do? It included about 50 pages on lawful access in a bill about cyberbullying. There is no connection.

The police admittedly need certain powers to act in such cases, but lawful access could have been treated as a separate issue, particularly when the bill talks about, for example, terrorism and software that has no bearing on the provision. Thus, everyone who distributes, transmits, sells or makes available an intimate image of a person is guilty of an offence. That has no bearing.

I am extremely concerned about the fact that cyberbullying has been used in order to propose provisions that, as everyone knows, have been highly controversial.

I have to say, all the same, that I am happy that the Conservatives did listen a little. This happened thanks to the work of the whole community of people concerned about protecting privacy and all those who stood up to combat measures that were going to make it possible to disseminate personal data without a warrant and require Internet service providers to set up an entire infrastructure for online snooping.

I am happy that these measures are not contained in Bill C-13. However, there are other measures that are very worrying. What is most disturbing is that tragic stories about cyberbullying, like the cases of Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd and all the other young victims of cyberbullying, have been used in order to introduce measures respecting lawful access. It has no connection and merits a separate debate.

I would prefer that we speak today strictly about cyberbullying, because it is so important.

I would like to use the 20 minutes of speaking time allowed me to talk exclusively about cyberbullying. I am obliged, however, to talk about all the other controversial and disturbing measures relating to lawful access.

A motion was moved to divide the bill, so that we could talk strictly about cyberbullying and thus expedite consideration of that portion of the bill.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives refused. They wanted to use cyberbullying to push through a range of provisions respecting online access that threaten the protection of privacy. The victims deserve a separate debate. They really do deserve it, and so do the families. We should debate cyberbullying alone, and not lawful access.

For lack of co-operation from the Conservatives, however, I will talk about lawful access. As the NDP critic on digital issues, I have done a great deal of work on this one. I have consulted people all across Canada concerning the protection of privacy and lawful access. I asked them where the limit lay as far as they were concerned, and what they found disturbing.

Four aspects are particularly troubling and they are of great concern to those who are worried about protecting privacy. I, too, am concerned about them. I believe that they deserve the full attention of the committee that studies this bill.

First of all, this bill, which is supposed to deal solely with cyberbulling, lowers the threshold for obtaining personal information. I am talking about metadata, transmission data and tracking data. I have often heard people say that metadata do not really provide any information.

I want to explain what metadata include. They include information provided by an email or telephone call: location, time, person contacted and search history. Metadata can provide plenty of information.

It seems to me that the whole debate around metadata and all of the information that can be gleaned from them really began in the United States, particularly with all of Mr. Snowden's revelations.

There is a new threshold. We have moved from “reasonable grounds to suspect” to “reasonable grounds to believe”. The threshold is being lowered, which creates a very disturbing precedent. When that threshold is lowered, we leave the door open to potential abuses of privacy.

This bill, which is supposed to deal solely with cyberbulling, goes on to include a provision encouraging Internet service providers to hand over personal information to authorities. In return, they cannot be criminally prosecuted.

I am not naive; I know that this is already happening. I know that there are Internet service providers who are sometimes handing over data that could be useful in criminal investigations. It is already happening, but right now Internet service providers are supposed to consider what might happen to them if they hand over that information. It may not be a good idea to provide it. They need to ask themselves those questions; they need to think about it before they hand over personal information, and that is what they do.

By removing the need for this sober thought prior to the sharing of data, the government is essentially opening the door to the sharing of personal information. It is creating and promoting a system that works completely outside any judicial oversight, a system that sidesteps all parliamentary oversight, and a system that excludes nearly every authority that should have the right to look into these activities.

Obviously, Internet service providers are not supposed to be spies. They are supposed to be people who give us access to the Internet, period. However, more and more, Internet service providers are being used to obtain information without judicial or parliamentary oversight. I find this extremely problematic, especially as we know, from a story published in the Globe and Mail, that spectrum licences require Internet service providers to build infrastructure specifically designed to store the personal data of the company's users or customers.

When such a provision is added to this infrastructure, we basically have an online spying system free of any oversight. I find this very problematic, and I think most Canadians will find it problematic as well, especially after hearing about the U.S. scandal and the American people's surprise at learning what was going on with Verizon, the NSA and PRISM. The government is recreating a very similar system in a bill that is supposed to address only cyberbullying.

I have a big problem with this provision, and I hope the government will seriously consider it before sending the bill to the next stage. I would ask all members of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to study this provision and fully understand what they are opening the door to. Indeed, this is very serious and creates an ominous precedent.

This bill also criminalizes software that can be used to access telecommunications infrastructure such as Internet services or television. That is good. Canadians must not be encouraged to steal cable programming.

However, not everything is black and white. Many software packages permit access to another computer, but for legitimate reasons. For example, there is software that permits access to another computer to verify its security or to repair it. Other software allows a person to create an internal network with two or three friends. Basically, this provides access to another computer, but not for criminal reasons or to steal from the Internet or from cable. It is for legitimate reasons.

I think that this requires a lot of study to identify the possible negative repercussions of this sort of clause, because as I was saying, it is not black and white. We cannot say that all software allowing access to another computer should be criminalized. We cannot think like that. We have to think of all the possible repercussions of this sort of clause.

There is another point deserving of more in-depth study that might raise some concerns. That is prohibiting certain people from using the Internet. I can understand the logic. However, is it really possible to ban someone from using a computer? Computers and the Internet are everywhere. I think that this may cause problems of compliance with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is really important to establish whether this clause is realistic and what its charter repercussions would be.

I have spoken about the importance of the Internet in our lives. Its possibilities are endless. We can communicate, participate in democracy, buy things online and take part in a whole digital economy. However, when we start opening the door to provisions that allow potential abuses of privacy, we are jeopardizing everything that the Internet is supposed to be.

We are putting at risk people who might want to use the Internet to challenge the government or its choices and policies. We are putting the Internet at risk as a free and open medium. With regard to Internet surveillance and online spying—no matter what we call it—we cannot allow our Internet to be destroyed by these sorts of provisions. It is extremely important that privacy remain paramount in Canada. This is entrenched in section 8 of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is paramount that this right always be respected.

I hope that everyone on the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights will assess all of the provisions I spoke about so that they truly understand the repercussions of this bill before moving forward. That said, I want to reiterate that cyberbullying is an extremely important issue, and we should really be dealing with it specifically. That is what the victims deserve.

Everyone here agrees that that part of the bill should be fast-tracked. I think it is really unfortunate that the government has taken a cyberbullying bill and included 50 pages on lawful access, which has nothing to do with protecting our youth.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for a very thorough investigation of the bill.

She pointed out something particularly troublesome and particularly relevant; that is, once the images go out on the Internet they can be very damaging. Far too many young people do not have a real sense of just how serious it is when they send these pictures and how it can destroy a life, how it can impact a young person's life for many years in very upsetting and dangerous circumstances.

In addition to the key part of the bill, the provision whereby it is not permitted to send out explicit images, might it not have been better for the government to include funding for anti-bullying programming so that we could make that effort to warn young people, to give them some tools with regard to protecting themselves?

Instead, we have all this extraneous and rather troublesome government add-on. It is far better to have a prevention program.

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for her excellent question. She has brought up an excellent point. Prevention is an essential component of an anti-bullying strategy for all forms of bullying, online or otherwise.

I have often had a chance to speak with young people about using and posting images on Facebook. I would say that most of them do not think twice before posting an image or a potentially negative comment about someone else.

It is extremely important that the government focus on preventive measures for these types of issues and cyberbullying.

I know that there are organizations, such as MediaSmarts, that are working hard to educate youth about how to use the Internet safely. However, there is still a lot of work to be done and there are very few initiatives right now.

That is why I believe that the government should focus on this issue sooner than later. There are too many lives at stake.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question about the drafting of this bill.

The Conservatives say that they respect Canadians' right to privacy. However, the Information Commissioner saw this bill for the first time the day it was introduced.

What does my colleague think of the decision to not consult the commissioner in advance?

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to clarify one small point. I believe that my colleague was talking about the Privacy Commissioner, not the Information Commissioner. I think that it was important for her to be consulted.

When drafting a bill that has the potential to have very negative implications for Canadians' privacy, it seems logical that the Privacy Commissioner would be consulted. That is what she is there for. She does an excellent job of protecting Canadians' privacy. That should have been part of the government's plan.

I would like to point out that Ontario's Privacy Commissioner has raised concerns about this bill. I would like to quote her as this raises an important point in this debate:

We can all agree that cyberbullying is an issue that needs immediate attention but it is very troubling to see the government once again trying to enact new surveillance powers under the guise of protecting children. Regrettably, the federal government is using this pressing social issue as an opportunity to resurrect much of its former surveillance legislation, Bill C-30.

A number of commissioners have raised concerns about Bill C-30. If my memory serves me well, the government even said that it would consult the commissioner when dealing with this issue. It did not.

In my opinion, this really shows that privacy is clearly not a priority for this government.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by thanking my colleague from Terrebonne—Blainville, who does an excellent job handling digital issues. She is very good at what she does. I think that her speech today gave us a lot of information about what cyberbullying is and about potential solutions.

We have heard about consultation. We have pointed out that this bill does more than address simply cyberbullying. There are 40 other pages on other subjects.

I have an observation and not really a question. We have come to expect omnibus bills that address several issues from the Conservative government, instead of individual, clear, concise bills on important issues like cyberbullying.

This week, our colleague brought forward a motion calling for the unanimous consent of the House to split this bill in two. There would be a cyberbullying bill and then a bill for everything else, which closely resembles a bill previously introduced by the Conservatives.

What does my colleague think about the fact that our colleagues opposite refused to grant unanimous consent? Does that not show a lack of respect for the families affected by cyberbullying and for those who have unfortunately lost family members as a result of cyberbullying?

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague, who is from a neighbouring constituency, for the question. She also knows her portfolio really well.

To answer her question, yes, this shows a lack of respect. We all said we wanted to address cyberbullying and everyone in the House agreed to do so. This issue is too important, especially today, after tragedies involving people like Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd and many other young people who have been the victims of this kind of bullying.

This bill contains only three or four pages on cyberbullying. It does not even make up the larger part of the bill on cyberbullying. This is basically a bill on lawful access. If we compare the number of pages on cyberbullying to the number of pages on lawful access, it is pretty clear that this is a bill on lawful access.

We should be debating just cyberbullying. It is too important, and the victims deserve more.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I noted that in her remarks the member alluded to the idea that she somehow felt the Privacy Commissioner had not been consulted appropriately.

I want to make it clear and have it on the record that in bringing forward a bill, the government cannot share the text of a bill prior to it being introduced in the House. However, the Privacy Commissioner was, in fact, consulted in the Federal-Provincial-Territorial Report on Cyberbullying, so there was definitely some consultation that took place with the Privacy Commissioner in terms of trying to ensure that those issues were addressed.

In fact, in The Globe and Mail today, the Privacy Commissioner said:

I think it stands to reason that in order to literally police the Internet, you do need these powers. And if you want to be effective against cyberbullying, I would understand you do need extraordinary powers, so it doesn’t seem to me inappropriate.

I would like to have the hon. member offer her comments on the fact that the Privacy Commissioner has made this statement, and obviously was consulted. Maybe she would want to take back some of the comments she made and address this quote from the Privacy Commissioner.

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the quotation cited by the member opposite does not really have anything to do with his question, since he said the commissioner was consulted.

Indeed, she made that comment in the Globe and Mail before she had time to read the bill. She had not yet read the bill.

As for my colleague's argument that the government cannot share the text of a bill, everyone in the House has the opportunity to draft a bill. I drafted a bill and I myself consulted the commissioner with the text of my bill in hand. That is definitely possible.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Superior North, Natural Resources.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for New Westminster—Coquitlam.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel.

I rise today to speak to Bill C-13, an Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act. I thank the Minister of Justice for introducing this long-awaited bill, which was tabled just last week.

I followed yesterday's debate in the House closely, as there are many aspects of the bill to study. The bill primarily seeks to address the issue of cyberbullying.

As we all know, cyberbullying is having devastating effects, particularly on young people. It is something we all agree must be addressed and eliminated. The tragic stories of Amanda Todd, Rehtaeh Parsons, Todd Loik and others have spurred a national discussion on how society must do a better job of working together to address bullying, harassment and other heinous acts. These acts can take place in public places like schools or the workplace, but they can also take place online through social media sites, apps, et cetera.

Regardless of where bullying and harassment takes place, proper tools are needed to address these very serious acts. Eliminating cyberbullying is a complex task, requiring a multi-faceted approach. It means giving police the tools they need to properly investigate cases and bring forward charges as needed. It means having resources and education tools available and accessible to youth, as well as their parents.

Yesterday I participated in a Twitter town hall meeting in Coquitlam to talk about crime. We talked about cyberbullying and the need for a holistic approach. It is clear to me we need a collaborative and well thought out strategy to address how bullying happens, how it affects people, how we can deal with it and how we can try to eliminate it.

Parliament has debated this before. Last year, the NDP put forward a proposal to strike an all-party committee to study and craft a national anti-bullying strategy. Unfortunately, the government voted down the motion. However, I believe the motion generated a lot of debate, which is healthy and crucial for a democracy. I have no doubt that part of the solution of cyberbullying lies in modernizing the Criminal Code to ensure it reflects the realities of crimes and how they are committed today.

The same was required for child luring laws. I proposed two private member's bills to close loopholes in the Criminal Code. The bills would have ensured prosecution of child predators was not hindered by whether a child was lured online instead of in person, or if the luring was inside or outside of Canada's borders. My work on the bills has shown me that as legislators we must look at how the Criminal Code is working in today's digital era and make improvements as needed.

Earlier this year, I seconded legislation put forward by my colleague, the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, which, like the legislation before us today, would criminalize the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. Bill C-540 was introduced in Parliament earlier this year. It is quite a simple, straightforward, one-page bill. With consent from the government, the bill could have moved forward before the House rose in June. When I first looked at Bill C-13, the government's legislation before us today, I was pleased to see that the contents of Bill C-540 were included in the bill.

However, there is much more in Bill C-13 that must be looked at. It contains dozens of clauses, of which only a handful directly relate to cyberbullying. Many clauses were adopted from the failed Bill C-30, known as the protecting children from Internet predators act. Bill C-30 was also widely associated with comments made by the former Conservative public safety minister, who had the gall to accuse opposition members of supporting child pornographers when they raised questions about the bill's scope. The bill was not just rejected by the opposition, it was widely rejected by privacy advocates and the public, forcing the Conservatives to back away from the bill earlier this year. I cannot recall another time when the government received such scathing criticism of a bill that it realized the error of its ways and was forced to abandon the bill.

Needless to say, when I learned that a number of clauses from failed Bill C-30 would be included in the cyberbullying bill before us today, I was very concerned. While Bill C-13 targets cyberbullying, it also goes after other issues, such as banks' financial data, the terrorist financing act, telemarketing, and the theft of telecommunication services.

The minister has assured us that prior judicial authorization is required in every single clause of the bill and that there is no ability for police to act without warrants here. However, lawful access provisions require close scrutiny. This is a complex, lengthy bill that requires careful study at committee.

As I mentioned before, only a few pages of this 70-page omnibus-style bill are directly related to cyberbullying. Yesterday the NDP proposed what I think is a very smart legislative solution. Our justice critic proposed splitting this bill in two. The cyberbullying provisions would be removed from Bill C-13 and put into a separate bill that could be expedited through the legislative process. In this way, the justice committee could take the appropriate amount of time to study other provisions contained in Bill C-13. I am disappointed that the Conservatives rejected this very logical proposal.

I intend to support Bill C-13 at second reading. I believe it deserves to be carefully studied at committee.

As I have outlined in my remarks today, cyberbullying is a very distressing problem. By making it illegal to distribute intimate images of people without their consent, we give police and the courts another tool to go after those who attack and victimize others online.

The other provisions in this bill require careful scrutiny. I am hopeful that members of the justice committee will be given adequate time to study this bill thoroughly.

In closing, I would like to say a few words on a more personal note. I want to acknowledge the courage and perseverance of the parents of Amanda Todd, Rehtaeh Parsons, and others. In the wake of the tragedy of losing a child, they have spoken out publicly and have asked hard questions of us as a society. They are driving a national debate on how we must do a better job protecting young people from online crime. I believe that their work will spare other young people and their families from enduring pain, suffering, and tragedy resulting from such terrible unchecked acts as cyberbullying.

In my riding of New Westminster—Coquitlam and in Port Moody, the story of Amanda Todd has resonated with parents, children, educators, policy-makers, city officials, the police, and so many others. In fact, it has resonated not only across the country but around the world. Although Amanda will never know the legacy she left, her heartbreaking final words will forever haunt us and remind us that we must do a better job.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments from the member. He made reference to breaking up the bill. I think it is important to note that yesterday, when the minister introduced the bill, we were afforded the opportunity to ask a question. The minister tried to express goodwill in dealing with this issue. The critic from the Liberal Party, the member for Charlottetown, asked if they could divide the bill and take out the part of the legislation that all members of this chamber, all political parties, all entities, and all stakeholders who go beyond the bubble here in Ottawa want to see.

We all want to see legislation to deal with cyberbullying. That is very clear and has been clear for a long time. The Liberal member from Vancouver has had private member's legislation on cyberbullying. I understand that the New Democrats have a private member's bill on cyberbullying. Obviously, the government is concerned about it.

Does the member not believe that it is achievable? All it would take would be the minister responsible for the legislation giving a clear indication that he would take out the cyberbullying part and incorporate it as a stand-alone piece of legislation. We could actually have it passed before Christmas. Does the member agree with that, in principle?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I absolutely agree with that. I mentioned in my remarks that splitting the bill would make sense. I think there would be agreement among parliamentarians to fast-track this as quickly as possibly. However, it would, as the member has mentioned, require the government to make the decision, which we proposed, to split the bill and focus specifically on cyberbullying.

It is unfortunate that when the New Democrats proposed that option, the government did not listen and voted that down. That is very unfortunate. It could have been a way forward. We would have had agreement.

The rest of the legislation is substantive. There are quite a few acts, and there are quite a few pages of study that justice will have to look at to deal with that portion, which I think would make sense as Bill C-13. A new bill, focused on just cyberbullying, would make a lot of sense.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague on an excellent speech. Like him, I agree that the bill really should have stuck to the issue of cyberbullying instead of becoming a kitchen sink that we are throwing all kinds of other issues into.

Of huge concern to me is the issue I thought was dead under Bill C-30. The justice minister at the time promised Canadians that Bill C-30 and the Internet snooping provisions that were critical to that bill would be dead and gone, once and for all.

I have risen in question period quite a bit lately challenging the government, and I do not know how I can say this within the rules of this House, on its veracity, its “truthiness”, perhaps. Now those same issues come into play with respect to the government's commitment that Bill C-30 was dead, because we see those same provisions resurfacing in the context of Bill C-13, which should be a bill that deals only with cyberbullying and deals only with the distribution of intimate images. Instead, much like with the wireless option, we see Internet snooping provisions snuck in.

I wonder whether the member would agree that those provisions have no place in the bill and that we need to pull the bill apart and deal--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Coquitlam, with a short answer, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I absolutely agree that the bill should be separated. It makes no sense that we have created this omnibus bill.

I mentioned the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act, and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act. These are huge pieces of legislation that should be separated and not put in with the cyberbullying bill. That is the critical element here.

That is what I believe this House is responding to that was so critical in affecting people like Amanda Todd, Rehtaeh Parsons, and other victims. I think we would find agreement that we need to move forward and tackle that legislation, get it through the House, and get it implemented so that we can start saving lives and making a difference to kids and their families right across this country.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to start my remarks on Bill C-13 by congratulating my many colleagues who work tirelessly for justice, the protection of all Canadians and respect for their rights and for individuals. It is truly high time for us to better protect ourselves from the non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

We are all shocked and saddened, and were truly heart-broken at the highly publicized suicides of teenagers who were victims of cyberbullying, including Rehtaeh Parsons, in Nova Scotia, Amanda Todd, in British Columbia, and so many others. We must prevent such tragedies from happening again, because these young girls are not the only ones to have been bullied.

Youth between 12 and 14 are most likely to be victims of cyberbullying, which can seriously affect their mental health and well-being.

According to recent studies, cyberbullying has an adverse effect on the social and emotional aspects of a young person's life and on their ability to learn. These young people suffer from anxiety, shorter attention spans, lower marks at school, feelings of despair and isolation, depression and even suicidal tendencies, as in these well-known cases, unfortunately.

I want to acknowledge that my colleague, the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, brought attention to the issue of bullying in the House with his motion to create a national bullying prevention strategy. I want to thank him for taking that initiative. His hard work to fight any form of bullying is truly admirable.

Earlier this year, the NDP member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour introduced a bill to make the non-consensual distribution of sexually explicit images an offence.

Unfortunately, instead of setting partisanship aside and expediting passage of these measures, the Conservatives refused to act on the motion and bill brought forward by my colleagues and waited until it suited them to introduce Bill C-13, a bill that contains a number of provisions that have nothing to do with cyberbullying and provides nothing meaningful for its prevention.

I would like to thank the NDP justice critic, my colleague from Gatineau, for the hard work she has done on this issue. She moved that Bill C-13 be divided in order to remove the parts of the bill that do not pertain to cyberbullying and address them in another debate. She moved for the bill to be split so that the provisions related to the non-consensual distribution of intimate images could be passed quickly since everyone in the House agrees on them. This would have allowed the other provisions, which were previously set out in the now-defunct Bill C-30, to be carefully examined separately in committee.

This would have allowed us to deal with the provisions of the bill that are not related to this very sensitive issue separately. That is what we must do in order to have a healthy debate on this subject, since the Conservatives are trying to include provisions on telemarketing and other things in a bill on cyberbullying. Cyberbullying is a very important issue, and we need to deal with it.

For example, I would like to share with the House what Ann Cavoukian, the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Ontario, had to say on this subject. She said:

We can all agree that cyberbullying is an issue that needs immediate attention but it is very troubling to see the government once again trying to enact new surveillance powers under the guise of protecting children. Regrettably, the federal government is using this pressing social issue as an opportunity to resurrect much of its former surveillance legislation, Bill C-30.

It is important to remember the work of my colleague, the hon. member for Terrebonne—Blainville, who fought hard against Bill C-30, which was a direct attack on the freedoms of Canadians and their right to privacy.

I am certain that she will ensure that the Conservatives are held accountable when the committee examines this bill, which unfortunately contains provisions that have nothing to do with cyberbullying and are of concern to many people in the digital community.

Bill C-13 covers much more ground than Bill C-540, which was introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. Along the way, it addresses many other issues, such as the financial data of banks, the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act, telemarketing and the theft of a communication service. It also includes some of the provisions of Bill C-30.

The New Democrats, privacy advocates and the public rejected Bill C-30, forcing the Conservatives to abandon it earlier this year and to promise that the Criminal Code would be modernized and would not include the measures contained in Bill C-30.

Now, privacy advocates are criticizing the provisions in Bill C-13 on lawful access to personal information and stressing the need to implement measures to protect Canadians' right to privacy against abuse. They say that certain specific provisions must be examined more closely, especially clause 20, which deals with the new procedures for obtaining a warrant.

The NDP proposes that the two very different parts of the bill be separated. It is clear that the Conservative government is just playing politics to pass its controversial provisions, under the guise of doing something for our youth. At the very least, we should carefully study this bill in committee, to ensure that it will provide police with the tools they need to protect our youth and to answer important questions about the other provisions included in the bill.

I will take this opportunity to talk about what the youth centre workers in my riding know well. They know this issue very well because they too often come face to face with problems that many people would rather not see. These workers are role models and friends to the young people who so desperately need them. They are on the front lines in their work with young people. I think we have to take their views into consideration. Here is what one worker at the youth centre in Saint-Canut, in my riding, had to say about cyberbullying.

She told me that a number of young people were victims and that very few resources were available to fight against cyberbullying. She finds it hard to control this type of bullying because everything happens so fast on social networks, bullies can remain anonymous and it is everywhere.

At her youth centre there is zero tolerance. If the computers at the youth centre are used inappropriately, there are consequences. She said that it was important for them to make their teenagers aware of the repercussions that this could have and to educate them in order to prevent cyberbullying. This is about confidentiality on the Internet and being careful about the comments and photos we post.

They encourage young people to file a complaint if there are abuses, but often, unfortunately, the police do not have the resources or the time to deal with this type of problem. According to her, it would be better if the complaints were taken seriously and processed as quickly as possible. Young people who commit this type of bullying have to know that there will be consequences for their actions even from behind their computer screen. She thinks it would be important to give police officers what they need to be quick and effective. The sense of anonymity and of not being able to get caught makes young people believe that they can do whatever they want on the Internet. That is what she told me.

Prevention, raising awareness among young people and giving police forces and youth case workers the necessary resources are key to fighting cyberbullying, in addition to the provisions contained in the first part of Bill C-13, the part that truly deals with cyberbullying.

This would help reinforce the legal framework. Nonetheless, it is a national strategy, like the one proposed by my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, which might have an impact on the other aspects.

I gather from this debate and the information from young people and stakeholders in my riding that some of the pages of this bill will help in the fight against cyberbullying. However, prevention and awareness raising are even more pressing.

This bill incorporates a patchwork of measures on telemarketing, theft of telecommunication services, and terrorist activities. These are direct descendants of measures in Bill C-30, the infamous bill the Conservatives had to go back on.

In closing, it is important to move forward in the fight against cyberbullying. As my two colleagues who spoke before me said, the NDP will be very active and very vigilant on this file.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my NDP colleague for her speech.

The question I want to ask has to do with the evidentiary requirement for a warrant. One of the things that this bill would do is change the threshold for obtaining a warrant for matters contained in the bill, from having reasonable and probable grounds to believe, to having a reasonable suspicion.

If someone files an access to information request for information within a minister's office, the standard that has to be met is for there to be reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the information is contained within the minister's office. Given the higher standard that is required to obtain information from ministers' offices compared to the standard that would be lowered for the electronic records of everyday Canadians, does the member see the incongruity there, with respect to the rights of private information of Canadians, which would now be easier to get than the records that are contained in a minister's office under an ATIP application?

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question. He mentioned an interesting contradiction.

I agree that it does not make sense. I really want to clearly emphasize the fact that the NDP will remain vigilant regarding the inclusion of clauses that might be too similar to those in Bill C-30, which contained measures that went way too far in terms of Canadians' privacy. That is a priority for us. That is a top priority for my colleague from Terrebonne—Blainville, whose constituency is next to mine. I know she has been working very hard on this file. It makes no sense to ask so much of Canadians. The member really illustrated the government's double standard, depending on whether the issue pertains to the government or to Canadians.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to ask my colleague a question, since she is chair of our women's caucus.

Since members, like me, who are younger than what we normally see in this House were elected, people have often wondered if age could lead to prejudice about behaviour. I often explain that it is not a question of age, but rather a question of gender, unfortunately.

When we look at the cases of cyberbullying that have appeared in the news in recent years, particularly those my colleague and some other members have mentioned, it seems to me that girls and young women are unfortunately more often the victims.

Given that my colleague cares so much about this issue, I wonder if she could comment on this aspect and the importance of defending gender equality in the fight against cyberbullying.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Chambly—Borduas for his excellent question.

He knows that, among ourselves, we often compare how we are treated. Experience tells us that people have no trouble accepting young people in politics, but they have some trouble accepting young women in politics.

Indeed, as a young woman who grew up in the digital age, I see something of myself in the stories we watch on television about Rehtaeh Parsons and Amanda Todd. I know girls who have gone through similar situations. My colleague from Terrebonne—Blainville said she was bullied when she was younger. I too have been bullied.

This is a crucial issue that we do not talk about enough. Young women seem to be targeted much more often than young men. That said, we must also talk about all forms of bullying.

I find it really unfortunate that the government did not seize the opportunity to focus on prevention and talk about this issue seriously. Instead, it tried to implement measures that were so unpopular they had to be withdrawn. It is truly unfortunate that we cannot address this issue because we are faced with the re-emergence of Bill C-30.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We are going to resume debate. I will let the hon. member for Davenport know we do not have quite the 20 minutes that he might have expected for his remarks, but it looks as if we have nine minutes or so. Of course he will have the remaining time available when the House next resumes debate on the question.

The hon. member for Davenport.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as usual it is a deep honour to rise in the House on behalf of the constituents in my riding of Davenport in the great city of Toronto on a piece of legislation that strikes to the heart of families right across the country.

As many of my colleagues have already said here today, witnessing the profound courage and commitment of both the Parsons and Todd families through this incredibly difficult chapter in their lives has been something that I think all Canadians have noticed and learned from.

I think when Canadians are faced with something of this magnitude that touches all of us in the way that this does, they rightly expect that we here park some of our partisan instincts and deal with the situation at hand.

One of the ways a majority Parliament can sometimes work is when members on the opposite side and the opposition present bills that really do connect with an important issue right across the country and that pretty much everyone here in this place agrees with. Sure enough, from time to time, the government adopts those ideas. I think it is fair to say that while we work toward being on that side of the aisle and having that party on this side of the aisle, in the meantime, we find ways once in a while to advance issues that we can all agree on, and I think this was one of those issues.

My colleague for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour tabled a piece of legislation in which we sought all-party unanimous consent, but we did not get it. That is one thing, but to have the government come back with a very similar bill is something altogether different. We can support that, but as usual with the Conservative government, it cannot resist its inclination to play politics with every issue. Every issue for the current government becomes a wedge issue and an opportunity to fundraise and hector the opposition.

We saw this with Bill C-30, the widely discredited online spying bill that the government presented. The minister in charge of it at the time badgered the opposition, and in fact, all Canadians who happened to disagree with his perspective and the wide breadth of the bill by saying that if one did not support Bill C-30, one stood with the child pornographers, which was an absolutely outrageous comment and effectively killed the bill.

The government also eventually declared that Bill C-30 was not going to come back. There were too many questions, not the least of which were the outrageous comments from the lead minister. There were also too many questions around privacy and civil liberties. We need to be clear that the foundation of a liberal democracy is the protection of civil liberties.

We see that in the bill we could have just dealt with the cyberbullying. I am sure members opposite on the government side would probably prefer to do that too. Canadians watching this would also be wondering why we do not just do that. The issues of cyberbullying are complex and critical, and they are happening right now as I speak.

This issue is far too important, too pressing, and too complex, quite frankly, to dump it into a boilerplate piece of legislation that contains all sorts of other issues. Maybe the government can explain to Canadians the link between cyberbullying and the inclusion in this law of a two-year sentence for the theft of cable television. That is in the bill.

We are trying to get to the nub of an issue that is affecting many of our young people and many of our families, and for some families it is affecting them in the most tragic of ways.

I am trying to contain my sense of outrage that we even have to discuss pulling this part of the bill out and having it as a stand-alone piece and voting on it immediately. However, the government did have that opportunity when my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour presented his cyberbullying bill in the first place.

When faced with such pressing issues around protecting our young people, it is tempting to consider lowering the bar in our pursuit of protecting people's privacy and protecting civil liberties. It is tempting to do that. I think that one of the reasons the government has thrown in all these other things that it would like to do is that, again, it is trying to play politics with this issue.

However, it is not just the opposition that has serious concerns about some of the other issues that are in the bill. The Ontario Information and Privacy Commissioner, Madam Cavoukian, also has serious concerns about this, as she did with Bill C-30. It is the same with Canada's Privacy Commissioner, who had raised serious concerns about Bill C-30 and is going to carefully look at this bill as well.

I would sum up by saying that sometimes it is better for all of us that we park the partisanship in this place and deal with a pressing issue that affects Canadians and some of our more vulnerable young people from coast to coast to coast. By separating this part out of Bill C-13, we would be doing that. We would also be signalling to Canadians that we do take this seriously and that we want to act quickly to protect the young people of this country.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member for Davenport will have eleven and a half minutes remaining in the time provided for his remarks when the House next returns to debate on the motion.

It being 5:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business, as listed on today's order paper.

The House resumed from November 28 consideration of the motion that Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak to Bill C-13 today, November 29.

There are various reasons why it is important that we sit here today and discuss Bill C-13. The most important reason is the respect that we all have for the fight against bullying, especially bullying directed at our youth.

No one in the House is against virtue or the idea that we must identify all the means and tools that could be used in the fight against cyberbullying.

I will be using my 20 minutes to talk about cyberbullying specifically. That is what the title of the bill makes us think it is about. However, Bill C-13 unfortunately covers more than just cyberbullying. It talks about numerous other ways and means to address a number of aspects of online crime, in addition to other things that have nothing to do with cyberbullying.

Allow me to explain. If members take the time to really read what is in Bill C-13, they will see that the section on bullying is only two pages long. This bill is more than 50 pages long, and it is clear upon reading it that it is yet another Conservative omnibus bill.

I will not hide my disappointment today at having to rise to speak once again to an omnibus bill. This is unfortunately not the first time one has been introduced in the House. We have had several omnibus bills in the past two parliaments—indeed, since this government won a majority. This is a sorry state of affairs, for many reasons.

The latest budget bills introduced by the Conservatives are examples of such omnibus legislation. We had bills comprising hundreds of pages that affected thousands of our laws totally unrelated to the budget. We had to deal with those. They were shoved down our throats. We tried to divide the bills into different parts, so they could be studied in the appropriate committees, but we did not succeed.

As an example, one of the budget bills contained a measure, introduced by the Conservatives, providing for the removal of protections for lakes and rivers in Canada.

Someone on the other side of the House will have to explain to me how removing the protections for our lakes and rivers relates to the budget. We tried to divide this section of the bill to send it to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, where it should have been studied. Unfortunately, the Conservatives refused.

Every time we have tried to introduce amendments to omnibus bills or divide them by seeking the unanimous consent of the House, the Conservatives have flatly refused.

I am extremely disappointed that Bill C-13 does not go deeper into cyberbullying, which is a sensitive issue that requires so much attention. It does not just affect young people, as we have seen in the high-profile media stories in recent years. Cyberbullying affects a large segment of the population. I will come back to this later in my speech.

It is extremely disappointing to see the Conservatives playing cheap political games in the House with legislation that should be passed unanimously. They are trying to add items and make us say yes to things that are in no way related to cyberbullying. It is incredibly disappointing to see the other side of the House engaging in petty politics.

In Bill C-13, the part on cyberbullying is a pretty close copy of what my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour introduced last June. That was a private member's bill, and everyone agreed with the principle of the bill. However, instead of examining it together and passing it quickly, the Conservatives decided to take part of what my colleague was proposing in Bill C-540 and add it to Bill C-13, along with some other elements.

Instead of concentrating on a bill on cyberbullying that was properly divided, the Conservatives opened up the floodgates and added some other things. They have made Bill C-13 into quite the concoction.

I also wanted to talk about another bill today. A few months ago, my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord moved a very interesting motion on cyberbullying. I cannot elaborate on it too much, because the motion had to do with more than just cyberbullying. However, I know my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord worked very hard on that motion. Almost all experts and public interest groups agreed that it was a very important motion. Unfortunately, the only party that voted against the motion was the Conservative Party. It is so sad that the Conservatives are refusing to discuss the private member's bill introduced by the hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, which focused solely on cyberbullying, and that they so easily dismissed the idea of debating and adopting the motion moved by my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord.

Cyberbullying boggles my mind. Honestly, it is so sad. No one can claim they have never encountered bullying. It is impossible. When I was attending Horizon Jeunesse secondary school in Laval, we had pagers. Cellphones did not exist yet. I am lucky because I was never bullied in high school. I was more of a social butterfly. I had all sorts of friends. I was never directly affected by bullying at school. However, I have friends who were bullied at school. It is serious. My brother was bullied. He would often have his lunch stolen. He was embarrassed and did not want to talk about it with my parents. Today, my brother is six feet tall and as strong as an ox, but, unfortunately for him, that was not the case when he was in high school. He was very cute and very nice. Perhaps he was bullied because he was too cute and too nice.

Those were the early days of the Internet. We did not have a computer at home. We had to do our research on the computers at the library. We could not afford a computer. We did not have to deal with cyberbullying, but bullying was all around me and part of my daily life. I saw what an impact bullying could have. Unfortunately, some students who were bullied at Horizon Jeunesse committed suicide.

Bullying at school is one thing, but when we are at home, we are protected. We are in a bubble. However, cyberbullying follows us 24 hours a day. We go home and use social media. Almost everyone has an iPhone or a BlackBerry in their pockets. We have access to Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn. We can access a host of social media very quickly. The impact is immediate and it follows us day and night. There is no break from it. I cannot imagine what it must be like to be a victim of cyberbullying when there is no getting away from it. It is very serious.

My colleague from Gatineau raised an extremely important point this week. She asked for the unanimous consent of the House to split the bill. I think this would be a way to show respect for people who are victims of bullying and cyberbullying. As far as cyberbullying is concerned, the consent is practically unanimous. As parliamentarians, we have to be respectful of the people we represent. We must split the bill. I sincerely believe that all members of the House want what is best.

The best thing to do in this case would be to split the bill, since there is unanimous consent on one part of the bill and because this is an omnibus bill with several parts that have nothing to do with each other. Let us focus on cyberbullying and fix that problem. Let us make sure that the authorities have the tools they need to address this problem. We can then come back to the rest of the bill the government has handed us—a rehash of the former Bill C-30—which addresses the completely different topic of privacy.

Let us focus on the two pages on cyberbullying out of the 50-some pages in Bill C-13. Let us pass these measures so that the authorities can make use of them as quickly as possible. That is how we can combat cyberbullying together.

Before I talk about privacy in more detail, I want to say that Laval does a lot of good things and I like to brag about them. A Laval organization called Volteface has found a unique way to address bullying and especially cyberbullying in Quebec. I cannot speak for the other provinces, regions or territories in Canada, but this is the only program of its kind in Quebec. Volteface is an alternative justice organization that finds ways to help build harmonious relationships by offering preventive activities and alternative conflict resolution mechanisms. It works with teenagers, victims, the general public, parents, schools and the community.

Volteface created an innovative tool as part of its “Ultimatum < Échap > LA CYBER INTIMIDATION” project. The organization is actually based in Shawinigan, but it operates in Laval. It has developed a partnership and focuses on high schools. The guide is intended for high school students, their parents and school staff. It offers information on how to prevent cyberbullying and talks about what kind of action is appropriate. This project focuses especially on youth and has been operating in Laval since Volteface created it. It is a very worthwhile program.

They are targeting young people because a number of studies indicate that, although people of all ages can be affected by cyberbullying, youth 12 to 14 are at greater risk. My daughter is seven months old, and I am already worried about the tween years. I do not know what social media will be like then, but I say to myself every day that time is flying by, and it seems as though she will be 12 or 14 so soon. The research also shows that girls are at greater risk of cyberbullying than boys, as proven by some studies. I can name them: there was Sengupta and Chaudhuri in 2011 and Tokunaga in 2010. Unlike traditional bullying, boys are more likely than girls to be involved in acts of bullying. We have the facts. This is extremely important.

I applaud a Quebec organization that is finding tools to fight cyberbullying and that is trying to engage groups most at risk of being bullied or bullying. We must educate both sides, those who are bullied and those who bully. It is extremely important.

With respect to the protection of privacy, which we have to talk about, this bill deals almost exclusively with that issue. Many experts believe that Bill C-30 is being brought back to Parliament disguised as Bill C-13. I will quickly talk about that.

Bill C-30 contained measures that were considered extremely serious infringements of privacy.

I remember that the public safety minister at the time, Vic Toews, who is no longer in the House, said that if we did not side with him, then we were siding with pedophiles. That was absolutely ridiculous because Bill C-30 was another omnibus bill. Come on. At some point, we must call a spade a spade. We are therefore concerned about the protection of privacy.

Oddly enough, the Privacy Commissioner was not consulted on any of the privacy-related measures contained in Bill C-13. There was no consultation. Moreover, the commissioner is saying that she is very concerned about the measures in Bill C-13.

The commissioner is most concerned about the new powers that will make it possible to obtain information about people's private lives and the high number of government employees who will have access to that information. This is a direct attack on privacy. However, I think we all agree that privacy is a fundamental right.

I would also like to take some time to speak about OpenMedia.ca, a digital media lobby, which:

...welcomed the measures on cyberbullying but expressed concern that the new legislation makes it easier for the government to spy on the activities of law-abiding Canadians. After reviewing the bill, OpenMedia.ca indicated that the bill contains only 2.5 pages about cyberbullying and 65 pages about online spying.

It is unbelievable, particularly since, yesterday, extremely serious allegations were made in the House against the Canadian government. Let me explain.

Yesterday, we learned that, while on Canadian soil, the Americans allegedly spied on all the heads of state who attended the G20 summit in Toronto, with the consent of the Prime Minister and this Conservative government. The Conservatives were therefore aware that this espionage was taking place and they approved of it. However, now they are saying that these are allegations and that they were not aware that this was happening.

Espionage is already being carried out with the Conservative government's approval, and now this bill will give the government even more ways to spy on law-abiding Canadians.

I know that many of my colleagues opposite really like to say that we have to respect Canadians' privacy, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. The right to privacy is a fundamental right.

Why are these measures reappearing in Bill C-13? Why is the government looking to put them back in when every group said that they were a terrible part of Bill C-30?

We also spoke about Bill C-13 yesterday. The Conservatives told us that they deleted the worst parts of Bill C-30 and put the least objectionable parts into Bill C-13. It is frightening to hear such things.

These measures are yet another attack on peoples' privacy. What has the government done? As usual, no one was consulted. The worst part is that the Privacy Commissioner is raising some extremely important points and some were already raised in relation to Bill C-30. The Conservatives wanted to stop talking about it. They said that it was over, that things had gone too far. However, those measures are resurfacing in Bill C-13. I am extremely disappointed.

I do not have much time left, so I will wrap up.

I am disappointed that the government did not decide to split this bill in two and focus specifically on cyberbullying. If the government insists on bringing back measures from Bill C-30, it should create another bill that does not address cyberbullying. Then we would have two separate bills.

The government has come up with another omnibus bill. This demonstrates a lack of respect for victims of cyberbullying.

I believe that our work as parliamentarians is extremely important. The committee study must be non-partisan. I look forward to seeing what will happen when this bill is studied in committee, but I am not overly confident.

I want the government to take the time to think about all those who have been affected by cyberbullying, reverse its decision and split this bill in two.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I know it is rather unusual for me to ask a question when it comes to anything regarding the Internet and computers because I do not use them. However, many of my colleagues and friends and my two daughters use them on a regular basis as well, and there is no question that cyberbullying is a very serious issue.

I would like to ask a question of my colleague from the NDP, who is a long-term future prospect of the New Democratic Party and should be a long-term MP in the House of Commons with the great speech that she has just given. Now, as a new mom, having a beautiful daughter herself, what type of conversations does she anticipate that she and her partner will have with her daughter when she starts using the computer for a variety of things? What types of conversations should parents and legal guardians be having with their children in regard to this very serious discussion we are having today?

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Sackville—Eastern Shore for his excellent question.

When I was a student at the Horizon Jeunesse high school, in Laval, my family had no computer and no cell phone. Today, 15 years later, everyone has a pocket computer, except for my colleague from Sackville—Eastern Shore, who does not carry one. I am sure, however, that his daughters, his family and his colleagues all have pocket computers.

Things change very rapidly. Twenty years ago, we had no computers or smart phones. They did not exist. Movies from that era show long telephones that practically had parabolic antennae. Things change very rapidly. What will it be like when my daughter is 12 or 14 and most likely to fall victim to cyberbullying? I have no idea, and that scares me.

I fear that we are not addressing the real problem. My colleague raises a very important point. It is the duty of parents and guardians to raise children, a very important task. I have the same responsibility towards my daughter. We have a duty to teach our children how to use the Internet properly, to avoid any unintentional bullying. Indeed, some of these events start by accident and quickly snowball.

Photos and messages go back and forth at the speed of light. It is mind-blowing. People do not always realize how their online behaviour can impact others. They think everyone will just forget what they have done, but some actions can really hurt others. We have seen serious cases, including in Nova Scotia, where Rehtaeh Parsons took her own life because of cyberbullying, and in British Columbia, where Amanda Todd's story received extensive media coverage.

These are serious events. Young people end up killing themselves because of cyberbullying. As parliamentarians, we have a duty to provide the authorities with the tools they need to take action.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the member on her speech.

She mentioned the fact that this is another one of those omnibus bills that, in some ways, ends up drowning out the central issue, in this case cyberbullying, by including a number of other measures the Conservatives want to bring forward. She underscored the need to address the issue head on and to enact this cyberbullying bill as swiftly as possible.

I would like to know her thoughts on the link she made between the bill and the motion introduced by our colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord to establish a national anti-bullying plan.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Saint-Lambert for her excellent question, which covered several issues. It is important to go back and discuss those points.

First, the bill should focus primarily on the fight against bullying. This is in the title of the bill, but only two out of over fifty pages deal with this issue. Obviously, bullying is not being taken seriously.

My colleague talked about how the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord asked that we develop a national anti-bullying plan including not only cyberbullying, but also any type of bullying targeting our young people.

In addition, young people are not the only victims of bullying. The groups most at risk of being bullied or bullying someone are women, young women and teenagers. We must therefore focus not only on young people, but also on all victims of bullying.

It is shameful that the members on the other side of the House did not support this motion and that they again introduced an omnibus bill that contains only two pages dedicated to cyberbullying. That does not even represent 10% of the bill, although cyberbullying is part of its title.

It is frightening that the Conservatives are seeking to pass such things. As my colleague from Saint-Lambert knows, this is not the first time they have done this. Indeed, this is not the first time they have introduced a bill and practically forced us to vote for it. If we do not do so, they will say that we are refusing to fight cyberbullying. They often say that we voted against such and such a measure. However, these are small-scale measures included in gigantic omnibus bills with hundreds of pages. We cannot agree to everything they contain.

Since we seek to properly represent Canadians, we have asked that these bills be divided and studied in committee, and that amendments be proposed. We do everything in our power to ensure that these bills make sense, but the Conservatives reject everything. For example, we have previously introduced amendments to correct the punctuation of a bill, specifically commas and periods, but the Conservatives rejected our amendments. There are many more stories like these. It is difficult to keep our faith in government, to have hope and remain optimistic, when all our efforts are rejected. We were elected to make the best possible legislation.

Like my colleague from Saint-Lambert, I am extremely disappointed with how the Conservatives are handling the cyberbullying problem.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I thank my colleague for her excellent speech, Mr. Speaker.

There are several points I would like her to expand on. I am the father of three preteens. Understandably, cyberbullying is of great concern to me. Like all kids their age, my children are very comfortable with technology. Unlike us at their age, kids today can be bullied even in their bedrooms. They have computers and access to the Internet. They can therefore be bullied at home as well as in school.

It is of the utmost importance that we take measures to address cyberbullying. Like my colleague said, not many provisions in the bill actually deal with cyberbullying. When the government introduced Bill C-13, it said it wanted to address the issue of cyberbullying. However, few of the bill's provisions actually do so.

I would like my colleague to comment on the attitude of the government—I am really trying to use parliamentary language here—that often puts on a dog and pony show about bills that, ultimately, are pretty hollow.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Châteauguay—Saint-Constant for his question.

As the father of three preteens, he is undoubtedly very concerned about the bullying that many children face on the Internet and in school. It must be very worrisome for parents to watch as their children get to that age. It is no secret that adolescence is a rough time for everyone. It is a difficult stage in life, yet it is perfectly natural. That is why I cannot imagine what it must be like to be the victim of bullying.

Suspension of Sitting

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

We will suspend to the call of the Chair.

(The sitting of the House was suspended at 10:34 a.m.)

(The House resumed at 11:12 a.m.)

Sitting Resumed

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

We will move on to statements by members.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Protecting Canadians from Online Crime Act

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to inform you that I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Edmonton—Strathcona.

In order to support an empirical assessment of this bill on online crime, my speech will focus on identifying how the notions we are examining apply to the work of a criminal defence lawyer.

I want to emphasize the concept of empiricism, because the practice of criminal law is primarily something you learn on the job. Although there is theory associated with it, criminal law is primarily something that you learn on the job. In fact, that is one of the first things you learn, that criminal lawyers learn on the job. These are the principles that I applied and that were taught to me when I trained as a legal aid lawyer in Sept-Îles.

My speech will focus on those notions that pertain to common practice and the considerable latitude that judges and crown prosecutors have when it comes to judgments and sentencing. We will see that this has an effect and that this bill encompasses notions pertaining to the practice of criminal law.

I will also talk about the gradual rise in computer crime.

Cyberbullying already existed in 2005 or 2006, if I am not mistaken, when I started working as a legal aid lawyer. I think it was even called cyberbullying at the time. The term was already starting to be used and the phenomenon was growing.

It was highly specialized at one time. In one specific case, a young woman told me that her photo had been taken by a webcam and ended up on other computers and that people were blackmailing her. When I was defending this case before the crown attorneys, they told me that the people best equipped to investigate and act on this were in the RCMP computer crime unit. I would say that in 2006, this type of thing was systematically handed over to the RCMP, who were best equipped to deal with it.

Over the years, I noticed that many incidents were called cyberbullying. Incidents included complaints made in cyberspace and in chat rooms or in the media about people who were making threats on the Internet. Some cases had to do with child prostitution. These things happened more frequently over the years.

I also noted that the judge had the discretion to impose conditions of release, which made reference to the use of means of communication or, at least, means of connecting to the Internet.

In some cases, I even saw judges impose conditions of release on individuals charged with cybercrime or transmitting pornographic photographs involving minors. The conditions of release imposed on these individuals might include banning them from being in possession of a cellphone that could give them access to the Internet.

I mention this experience and practice on the ground to point out that the courts, the judges and the crown attorneys were already introducing ways to limit the use of the Internet for unsavoury purposes.

This specific bill codifies practices that were already being used, depending on the judicial district, since practices can differ from one district to another. These practices were already being used by a number of legal practitioners and judges provincially and nationally too, I am sure.

New offences are being created because we have been seeing new types of crimes against the person as a result of the rise of social media. As I said, those crimes have gradually become more frequent with the increasing popularity of Facebook and other social media.

Legislation is adaptable and that, in combination with public opinion, has allowed for the development of a wide variety of sanctions and limitations designed to reduce the range of virtual threats to an individual's moral integrity.

When I say virtual threats, I am talking about online threats, or cyberbullying, not hypothetical threats.

It is important to understand that cyberbullying is a crime against the person. If you physically hurt someone by breaking his nose, you can be charged with assault and bodily harm. It is a crime against the person. In my opinion, cyberbullying also fits into that category because it is a question of a person's moral and psychological integrity. That is my point.

The media has paid close attention to certain issues in recent years. That is why we are here in the House today, to talk about cybercrime and how it is getting worse, and about cyberbullying.

I want to talk about adjusting orders in order to respond to new illegal practices such as cyberbullying. We have seen people use the Internet for good and for evil.

The issues I used to work on were usually related to death threats targeting specific ethnic groups. Orders and parole conditions have been developed over the years.

Given that practising criminal law requires ongoing exchanges with crown prosecutors, quite often, judges and crown prosecutors develop their own code of practice. That is how relatively flexible sanctions and measures have come to be imposed.

I will repeat an example from earlier. When it comes to conditions of release at the bail hearing stage, when a client decides to exercise his right to a bail hearing and wants to be released, the judge can always issue personalized conditions of release that do not appear in other cases.

These conditions can limit an individual's access to cyberspace if he has shown certain kinds of deviant behaviour, even if it is a question of charges only and the individual is considered innocent until proven guilty.

Any time there are allegations of inappropriate use of cyberspace, the judge usually limits the person's ability to use the Internet. I believe that is entirely commendable, although that is another debate. If we were to look at the advantages and disadvantages, one could raise arguments related to human rights and individual freedoms set out in the Canadian charter.

However, based on my rather informed opinion as a lawyer regarding the advantages and disadvantages, there is a very good chance that a court would stipulate that the rights and integrity of the victim are much more important than an individual's access to cyberspace. This will be debated by lawyers in due course.

Based on the evolving nature of measures aimed at restricting access to cyberspace, special attention must be paid to the clauses of the bill before us that have to do with preservation or production orders, in order to ensure respect for charter principles regarding privacy. That is what I was saying.

There are even some groups advocating for unrestricted Internet access who will challenge the measures proposed in the bill. However, I believe that if you weigh the pros and cons, there is a good chance that a court would conclude that it is reasonable for our society to limit Internet access for individuals who demonstrate a lack of good judgment in their comments or use cyberspace for dubious or criminal purposes.

I will also argue for the need to divide and reread Bill C-13 to conduct separate reviews of its stated objectives. It should be noted in passing that most of this bill has nothing to do with the protection of psychological integrity and should be placed in a separate bill.

True to form, the Conservatives decided to make this a catch-all bill, if I may say so, and to sneak highly contentious issues into a bill whose stated purpose and title would have unanimous support. This is a reprehensible practice and I want to make sure everyone knows that.

The New Democratic Party feels that—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Edmonton—Strathcona.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his speech on this matter. I know that he has considerable experience in his constituency representing his constituents in the courts. I take very seriously the issues he raises, which are of concern to the bar associations across the country.

There have been concerns that by again bundling matters together inappropriately, the government has not really given appropriate opportunity for discussion and debate. We are supporting moving forward expeditiously to address cyberbullying and the distribution of any inappropriate information or information of a sexual nature, particularly about children. We would love to expedite those provisions, but we have waited long and hard for the government to act.

Could the member speak to the matters relating to the issuance of warrants and so forth that arose in the previous bill, and comment on whether he thinks they are appropriately addressed or if they merit considerably more debate?

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question.

As she said in her question, this is an omnibus bill, similar to what we have seen in the past; in other words, many items have been quietly slipped in.

The Conservatives are well aware that certain items that they sought public approval for simply did not pass that test. I am referring to specific measures aimed at limiting certain users' access to the Internet, and monitoring them as well. In short, some of these ideas now appear in this bill. From my admittedly brief study of the bill, I see that some rather unpopular and controversial ideas were rehashed and reintroduced in this very specific bill; that is highly objectionable.

Otherwise, in terms of the form and content of the bill, we will agree on the basic and key aspects of its wording. However, it would be advisable to review it carefully and split up certain components in committee.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to make it clear that the residents I represent in Winnipeg North recognize the degree to which cyberbullying is so harmful to society as a whole.

Today we have legislation before us. However, if the government were genuine in wanting to pass legislation to deal with the issue, I believe it could be done in a fashion that would receive all-party support.

In terms of expediting this issue so that we could have legislation passed through all the different levels before Christmas, the key is that we have to be able to take the issue of cyberbullying out of the bill that is being proposed and bring it forward as a stand-alone bill. All members of this House could accurately represent their constituents and see this type of legislation pass to become the law of the land if we recognize cyberbullying for what it is.

Cyberbullying is a horrific crime that needs to be dealt with through all-party support. Would the member not agree that singling out that issue and passing it would be the most effective way to get something done between now and the end of this year?

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his question. I agree with him that cyberbullying is serious enough to warrant being examined separately and should have its own bill. From the title, you would think that the bill before us is just about cyberbullying. However, when you look at the bill more closely, you see that it addresses many other fairly contentious issues. I wanted to point that out.

The NDP's position is that we must study many issues set out in this bill individually.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my colleague's speech and to his answer to the previous question. I think he said splitting the bill into two pieces, one with just the Criminal Code offence of cyberbullying and another with the investigative powers in it, would be a good idea.

I wonder if he could tell us if he has had an opportunity to read the federal-provincial-territorial report on cyberbullying, and in particular recommendation 4 that report, which talks about the investigative tools that are absolutely necessary to allow the police to gather evidence so that they could actually lay the charge and convict someone of cyberbullying. If it were simply stripped down to the offence itself, obviously there would not be.

I wonder if he could explain the comment by his colleague, the member for Windsor—Tecumseh, when he said they know a number of investigations that have gone on and have failed and of a number of charges that have been laid and have failed simply because the terminology in the code was not up to modern-day standards. I wonder if he could tell us which of the recommendations in recommendation 4 of the Cybercrime Working Group report he would not include in the cyberbullying bill.

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question.

The only problem is that this specific bill includes measures that are fairly invasive of people's privacy. These measures have been introduced before. Given that the Conservative government is very right-leaning, this bill could lead to government interference and people being monitored a bit too closely. The only concerns there could be are about surveillance because the Conservatives introduced these measures in the past with very little success. Now, they are trying again, despite the fact that Canadians oppose these measures.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise in the House to speak to Bill C-13.

The first part of the bill is very clearly a critical issue that we have been dealing with in Canada. I would hope that every member in this House would support expedited action, across the board, to prevent cyberbullying and the inappropriate, illegal, non-consensual distribution of sexual information, in particular related to children.

I welcome the fact, as do my colleagues, that the government is finally coming forward with a more reasonable bill, and that we do not have the slinging of insults. We appreciate the respect being given to this matter and the more respectful bill, and perhaps it is because the bill is now being tabled by the Minister of Justice. We hope we will have a better balancing of rights to privacy and the rights of children, and other people who are harmed by inappropriate acts through the Internet.

I do wish to bring to the attention of the House that this is not the first time that members of the House have sought action on the issue of cyberbullying and action, particularly where youth have been harmed, and in some cases have committed suicide, because of extensive bullying.

I would like to bring to the attention of the House the motion M-385, tabled by the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord in October 2012. It was debated in this House. The member recommended that there be a broad-based strategy on dealing with cyberbullying.

It is noteworthy that just before I rose to speak a member across the way referenced the report on cyberbullying that was put together by federal, provincial and territorial ministers of justice and public safety. The very first recommendation is that the working group acknowledged the benefits of a multi-pronged, multi-sectoral approach to the issue of cyberbullying and called for action in a comprehensive manner.

That is very appreciated. Obviously, the justice ministers and the public safety ministers across this country recognize that we need to have clarification in criminal law. However, we need a lot more than that.

The member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord recommended that. He recommended a broad-based strategy that all members of the House could develop together and, heavens forbid, reach a consensus on the measures we need to move forward on. Very sadly, the Conservative members all voted down that motion.

Also, members on this side brought forward Bill C-540, a private member's bill, from the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. In that bill, he recommended the creation of an offence to produce or distribute intimate images of an individual without their consent. That was the response to the tragic suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons in his province.

In addition, another member on this side, the member for New Westminster—Coquitlam, tabled Bill C-213, which very succinctly addressed the matter of communication for the purposes of child luring.

Very clearly, the members of the official opposition strongly support action by the government to address child luring and to address and punish any cyber crime that would lead to bullying and could cause serious harm or suicide of our children.

Canadian families would clearly be grateful for expedited action, certainly the families of the victims of previous bullying incidents would. Most importantly, we would like to prevent any such incident from ever occurring again. I think all members of the House would concur with that.

What we want to do is to protect our families from harm. I concur. I join with my colleagues in strongly supporting the first provisions of this bill, which deal with and address cyberbullying. I am certain that we did our best to try to suggest to the government that it would be wise to expedite these measures by dividing the bill.

We may need to strengthen the investigative powers but, as I will speak to later on, we need a lot more than stronger criminal law; we need to make sure that our enforcement officers are fully capable of actually taking action on these matters.

However, as I mentioned at the outset, the most important measures we need are ones to prevent these acts from occurring at all, not simply taking enforcement action after the fact.

Why do we have these issues? Why are Canadians, in particular legal experts and privacy experts, raising concerns with the majority of the provisions of this bill? I am informed that 37 of the 47 clauses of the bill do not directly relate to cyberbullying. Therefore, it appears eminently reasonable that we would have further debate on those provisions to expedite the cyber crime provisions.

One of the matters that was of deep concern to Canadians from coast to coast to coast, in particular legal scholars, was the previous provision of a bill that was tabled in the previous Parliament. It would have allowed for intervention into accessing Internet material without a warrant. When objections were raised, the then minister of public safety accused anybody who had raised any concerns or had proposed amendments to the bill of being pro child pornography. That caused the government to ultimately withdraw its bill, and I think appropriately.

We are encouraged that the government has moved forward now with a more reasonable bill. However, legal experts are raising some concerns with the direction the bill is taking on the way it is imposing conditions on warrants. Those are critical matters.

We have long-standing legal precedents on when it is appropriate to allow for the seizing of material and where it might be a violation of a charter right. The prerequisites to obtain a warrant have been long debated in the courts. If we are to move in any way on shifting the burden on having to show cause before obtaining a warrant, it justifiably merits a good discussion in committee over those matters. However, the government has decided that it does not want to divide the bill, so unfortunately all matters will be going to committee.

I previously mentioned the matter of the warrantless disclosure. An equally concerning matter is the possibility for Internet providers to voluntarily disclose information. I would suggest that is a matter that also needs to be looked at closely. People exchange information of a private matter day in and day out. There should be some level of protection when there is an exchange of that information.

As I only have a few minutes left, I would like to speak to a matter that comes from my personal experience. I was involved for many years in the field of environmental enforcement. One of the lessons I learned from that is that the best way to deter a crime is to have a high probability of detection and punishment.

In order to make that happen, most agencies now, when they are developing legislation, are simultaneously taking a look at the capacities of their enforcement agencies to deliver. They ask whether they have enough personnel and whether they are appropriately qualified. This is an area that police and enforcement officers have been identifying for quite some time, that it takes very special skills and training.

I have not seen the government come forward with a parallel skills, training and capabilities strategy. I would encourage it to move expeditiously on that, so that the moment the bill becomes law, the government is immediately capable of enforcing that law.

In closing, the bill is going in the right direction, generally speaking. However, it will be important for particular matters, including the changing of the burden of proof and warrants, to be explored at committee with the appropriate experts.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague made some very interesting points in her speech.

I want to ask whether she is aware that there is a significant difference between Bill C-13 and the previous Bill C-30. For instance, all production orders, all search warrants, for retention of any of this information that would be important for the police and prosecutors in order to properly prosecute a case for cyberbullying, is subject to prior judicial oversight. I wonder if she could tell us whether she knows that or if she has a comment on that.

Also, I wonder if she could take a look at recommendation four of the Cybercrime Working Group report, which she referred to in her speech, and tell us which of those investigative powers she thinks is valid. The Cybercrime Working Group report said that all of those investigative powers were needed in order to support an offence of cyberbullying.

Could she take a look at those to see if she is prepared to accept them as part of the cyberbullying bill, or does she still want those separated into two different bills?

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very fair question. I spoke to those matters, but I am happy to address them again.

We are hearing the government state that it has majorly shifted and that the bill now requires warrants. The issue that is still outstanding is what the burden of proof is for those warrants and whether the government is inventing a different burden of proof in these matters. That is a matter that merits legal expertise and discussion at committee, to give reassurances to Canadians.

On the matter of recommendation four from the intergovernmental report, I will note specifically that it recommends improved judicial oversight. That is exactly the matter that we wish to discuss. Is it in fact the same level of judicial oversight that we would normally anticipate in the judicial process, or is it being varied? If we can be reassured on that, then I think there would be fewer objections to the bill.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, through lines of questioning I have been able to emphasize how important it is that we have legislation.

It could be a private member's bill. I made reference to the Liberal member for Vancouver Centre. Members of the Liberal Party have been very clear that cyberbullying is a horrific crime and we need to take action and bring in legislation that will deal with the issue.

I want to pick up on the point that the member referenced in terms of deterring crime. This is something we are not necessarily seeing from the government. To use the example of schools, if we want to prevent cyberbullying from taking place in the first place, taking a proactive approach within the school system, the curriculum and so forth, could go a long way to preventing some of these horrific crimes. That is not to mention the workforce and so on, but just to focus on the school boards.

I would ask the member to comment further. She made reference to deterring crime and that not only is government responsible for bringing in legislation where it is necessary but also for providing good solid programming to prevent some of these crimes from taking place.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, another of my colleagues is going to address the question about the need for more educational programs.

However, the issue of deterrence is different. Prevention means there are education programs in schools and communities, in the government, on websites and so forth. Deterrence means there are provisions and penalties in law that will deter.

However, the most critical piece is that there has to be some kind of reasonable probability that the crime will be detected. That means there needs to be some kind of strategic risk-based strategy on how the government is going to focus its resources on enforcing this bill. That is what we have not heard from the government. Frankly, we have not heard that from the government in every bill it has brought forward and that I have spoken to. A law is fine, but if the appropriate resources and a strategic plan are not in place to target the crime and provide a deterrent, then it is all for naught.

One of the things that the government might consider adding is innovative sentencing. That occurs in regulatory offences, and maybe it would be appropriate in this case as well.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the terrific member for Sackville—Eastern Shore. It is a great honour to share my time with him.

We have been talking a lot about the bill. At the end of my comments, I will talk about some of the concerns I have about how this bill has been put together by the government and the concerns that we have heard from my colleagues about other aspects of the bill that have been included.

What I would like to talk about is what most of us have shared in the House: our concerns about cyberbullying and the influence of the Internet as a tool used by those who want to frighten, abuse and intimidate people.

Three names come to mind in recent past. We have lost the lives of some very vulnerable young people. Amanda Todd, Rehtaeh Parsons and, in Ottawa and indirectly related to the issue we are talking about, Jamie Hubley. These are names that brought this issue to the forefront and I want to mention their names because it was really quite something when we lost these young people. There was an outpouring of sentiment, but it also caused legislators like us to reflect on what we could do. That is very profound, because, as we know, that does not always happen. It was a moment where we saw members of Parliament and members of provincial legislatures try to look at how we could deal with this issue.

I would like to take it and relate it to what my friend from Edmonton—Strathcona was talking about. Let us take another look at this, beyond the scope of this law, and talk about the issue a bit more. We need to look at the fact that it is not just the Internet.

Before I was elected as a member of Parliament, I was a teacher. On many occasions, I had to deal with young people who were very isolated. They were people who came to me because they were feeling vulnerable. There were a number of cases where I had students who were contemplating suicide. Because they had no one else to turn to, as a teacher, I ended up being the person who they dealt with.

It always took me by surprise how few resources there were for young people to turn and get help. That is something we can work on with the provincial governments, providing people with assistance. It is not just about the Internet. It is about the fact that people are isolated. When I was teaching, there was certainly a concern about how the Internet was being used. Now we have social networking, which is part of the issue we are talking about now. It is interesting. There is a paradox. This young generation is the most connected generation in the history of the world. My sons can Skype with someone on the other side of the world and connect with people. The paradox is that we have the most connected generation, but we also see some of the most isolated young people ever.

As we have heard many times, the technology is such that people can go inward if they are in a cycle of depression, if they feel isolated, or if people are intimidating or bullying them. They can just go into the virtual world. Mr. Speaker, you are a parent. You know that the virtual world is fraught with all sorts of danger and concerns. We need to address that. As others have said, and we agree with them, the bill is about making some changes in the Criminal Code, but it does not solve the problem. We have to look at prevention as well.

When I was teaching, I worked with the Media Awareness Network. It is a fantastic not-for-profit group that deals with media literacy. I was able to avail myself of its resources when I was in the classroom. What we did was talk with young people about the messages they were getting in the media, now on the Internet and social networking sites, with which they were bombarded.

They are being bombarded with messages about how they should behave, what they should do and what they should buy. For young women, in particular, it is about how they should look. They are being pushed to consume things or buy things to somehow become a better person, when we know that the essence of someone's personality is about the values they carry and the influences they have to make them better people, not how they look, what they buy or what they consume.

I look at the curriculum in our schools, the resources for young people and it is not enough. We can do our jobs as parents, but let us be frank about this. When kids reach adolescence, they actually turn away from their parents and are more influenced by their peers. In this virtual world that has been created through the Internet and technology, with Facebook, Twitter, et cetera, there are obvious temptations for people to reach out to others to essentially give them confidence in who they are. This is where we saw the problems for the people I mentioned, like Amanda Todd.

Just recently, we heard from Amanda Todd's mother, who was speaking about media awareness, I believe it was last week in Winnipeg. What she was saying to parents, educators and everyone was that we needed to connect with each other to help our young people. Yes, we need to ensure we know what our young people are accessing on the Internet, on Facebook, et cetera, but we also need to have that human dimension. That is where we need to see our schools and our communities reaching out to people to bring them in and for those who are feeling vulnerable, to offer opportunities for them to share with us what their anxieties are.

I have talked to numerous educators. My wife is a teacher as well. What we have noticed lately is that there is much more anxiety among young people now than there ever was. Again, it is connected to how people are connected. They are feeling bombarded by Facebook, with Twitter and texting, where people who want to lash out or isolate someone can do it without really facing someone. That is the whole problem here. It is the anonymity.

Therefore, there are a lot of anxious young people. We see this in the skyrocketing number of them who are being identified with anxiety disorder. This is, frankly, what we should be looking at because once people are feeling anxious and they turn to social media to find friends and community in a virtual world, we then see where they can really descend into chaos. We see luring happening there. We see people who try to pretend to be friends draw people in and then abuse them.

If we are going to understand the issue that we are talking about today, we need to go beyond just changes to the Criminal Code, which of course we support.

Let us see the federal government work with our partners at the provincial level to come up with really smart media awareness programs that are well resourced, and I mentioned the Media Awareness Network is a terrific resource, if we are to help young people be aware and be literate when it comes to what they are confronted with on line.

This is not about the government doing it for them. Let me be clear about that. This is about the government resourcing groups that are already working on these issues. It means that we all take this issue with a lot more depth than just saying we will change the Criminal Code and that will somehow fix it. It means we have to look to those who are victimized.

I will just underline a couple of groups that are obviously important here. I think of trans-youth and gay and lesbian youth. I think of those who are different because of the way they look, or the fact that they may be introverted. We need to reach out to them.

I wish Bill C-13 was just about that. I wish the government had not brought in these other measures, which we have some concerns with about privacy that have been noted.

What I want to finish off with is, let this not be the end of this issue. Let us look at how we can better reach out to young people. Finally, a smart suggestion would be to reach out and listen to young people, because they will have as many ideas as we have on how to help young people who are so isolated.

My final recommendation would be for the government to work with the provinces to actually create spaces to hear from young people, for them to make recommendations on how to combat cyberbullying, as we call it, but deep isolation. Therefore, at the end of the day, we can say that we have been able to help prevent these horrific, tragic deaths we have seen, in the names of Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd and Jamie Hubley.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, my friend is quite right: bullying and cyberbullying are about more than just Criminal Code provisions. They are a social issue that needs to be addressed by schools, by non-governmental organizations and by community groups. In fact, he is probably aware that the government has supported for over two years several programs developed by the Canadian Centre for Child Protection on just the issue of bullying and cyberbullying. The government has provided over $10 million for these programs. The Canadian Centre for Child Protection operates two websites: cybertip.ca and needhelpnow.ca. They provide counselling and preventative information to young people about the threat of social and consequences of social media.

The member mentioned the sad case of Jamie Hubley. Has he heard these words from his father, Allan Hubley, about Bill C-13? On November 20, he said:

When we were younger, you always knew who your bully was, you could do something about it. Now, up until the time this legislation gets enacted, they can hide behind that. Not only does it start to take the mask off of them, through this legislation there is serious consequences for their actions.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for pointing out the resources that exist, and obviously I support those initiatives. Mr. Hubley is a local councillor and I have joined with many in our community to go public and talk about the issues within our community. Many of the students within Jamie's school were responsible for either being bystanders or participating in the deep isolation for a young gay man. We need to address that.

I would finally point out that, along with some of the resources that my colleague mentioned, there is also a terrific group called “Digital Voices”. It is another group that is working together to give strategies to young people. What it talks about is “stop, think, connect”: stop and think about what they are saying, what they are doing online to young people; then connect with people if they are feeling deeply isolated. These are the kinds of things we need to continue to talk about.

Finally, I will just underline that I had a youth summit just two weeks ago to hear from young people about what they thought we should be doing, not just on this issue but on the economy. If we start really listening to young people and having them as part of the decision making, we will go a long way further than we have already.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, there is no shortage of individuals and advocates who really want to see action being taken on the cyberbullying issue. I suspect all members of Parliament would love and welcome the opportunity to see legislation put into place as early as before the end of this year. That would be most helpful.

My question for the member is this, and we have heard this suggestion in the House over the last couple of days, whether it is the Liberal Party or the New Democratic Party, who have said it. Could we not take out certain aspects of the current legislation and then allow that to ultimately pass through so we are dealing specifically with the issue of cyberbullying in which all Canadians want to see some action? Would the member expand on that point of how quickly we could pass something through all levels that are required to be passed in order to have something effective for cyberbullying before even Christmas time of this year?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yes, that is why we have moved to split the bill and then to get it passed at all stages as quickly as possible.

I want to leave with these words from Carol Todd, Amanda Todd's mother, about what happened. She said, “She got trapped in the Internet.…Someone convinced her she was beautiful…that she should be her friend…and it turned out to be someone quite evil.

That really stuck with me. What I am saying is that yes we can put those provisions in and yes we should support them. However, at the end of the day, we have to look at what this young woman was going through and ask ourselves what we were doing as a community. What were we doing as a society to allow someone to become so isolated? Our work has to continue on helping people who are isolated. That is why we should set up ways for young people to inform us and the government and give them the space to effect what goes on. We should do that in all our communities and that is the challenge I put out to all my colleagues, as well as to the government formally.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Ottawa Centre for a very respectful speech in regard to this very serious issue of cyberbullying. A couple of our NDP colleagues have already moved legislation forward in this regard in order to discuss and combat the scourge of cyberbullying that is affecting our country.

When I was a little kid growing up, we always heard the expression “sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me”. Now it is “gigs and bytes you may not like”. That is what I heard the other day.

The reality is that this is a new era now, one in which our young people are communicating back and forth at lightning speed, in many cases with people they do not even know. In many cases, these are people who prey upon them.

For years now, I have had legislation on the books that came from former MP Chris Axworthy on Internet child pornography. In it we were basically trying to get the Internet service providers to have some responsibility to monitor the sites and, when something of that nature came forward, to inform the police and make sure that appropriate action was being taken.

There is no question that this legislation is a good start. We hope to get it to committee in order to get it split and be able to move it very quickly, as my colleagues on both sides have said very clearly.

However, I want to focus on something that is a little more personal in terms of the family.

We can have all the legislation that we want. We can have all the enforcement, punishment, and everything else that we could have in terms of this issue, and yes, it would deter and possibly stop some people from doing it, but it will not be the end of it all.

If we look at drunk driving, we see tough measures against it across the country, but people still drink and drive. The United States has the death penalty in certain states, but the reality is that murders are still happening. The reality is that we can have the toughest cyberbullying legislation in the world, but it will not eliminate it completely. It would deter it and reduce it, but it would not eliminate it.

However, what may assist these young men and women when they feel the effects of cyberbullying is the conversation with their parents and their peers.

I have two daughters, aged 25 and 22, who grew up with the Internet and all of that kind of technology, but my wife was very clear and careful to ensure that a conversation took place on a regular basis about being very careful of what they typed into computer and being very careful about what they looked at on Facebook, and now the tweets and so on.

That conversation has to take place. The government or opposition members cannot be the sole source of remedying this situation. This has to be a national conversation across the country. I encourage all families, all legal guardians, and everyone else to have that national conversation with their children so that they understand the dangers and the threats of the Internet and what happens on Facebook when they post pictures or say certain things that can be interpreted in the wrong way.

When I grew up in Vancouver, I grew up in a group home. My parents had over 400 children come to our home over 23 years. Some stayed with us for a few hours, some for a few weeks, a few days, or a few months. Some even stayed for a couple of years.

The one thread that connected each and every one of those kids was love and respect. All these kids did not feel the love and they did not feel they had any respect. They did not feel they were contributing members to our society. They all felt that it was their fault. They all felt that it was a burden. When a 10-year-old tells my parents, “I can make more money on Davie Street in 20 minutes than I can working at home for a week”, there is a serious problem.

These kids are vulnerable and subject to anyone out there that will prey upon them. This is how cyberbullying works. Just as it was in the old days, they prey upon those who may be vulnerable. They prey upon those who may be a bit curious as to what is going on. Then the children get into that vortex or trap, and the next thing is they become victims.

Amanda Todd, Rehtaeh Parsons from Nova Scotia, and Jamie Hubley in Ottawa were three beautiful young people who had a tremendous amount to offer. They had the opportunity to become great citizens of our country. Who know what they may have been able to have done with their lives? Unfortunately, with the pressures they felt, they felt they had no other way out, for lack of a better term, than to end their own lives.

When a young child commits suicide, it affects not just their own family, and again my condolences and thoughts and prayers go out to all those families and friends; when a young child commits suicide, it should affect every single Canadian citizen. As my colleague from Ottawa Centre said so clearly, “What were we all doing?” What responsibility did we have when these kids were starting to look for help? What responsibility do we have, not just as politicians but as friends, as neighbours, as family members?

We cannot just avoid it and say that it is the school's responsibility or the government's responsibility. It is our collective community responsibility to reach out to the disenfranchised in our society.

The LGBT society, for years and years, has advocated just to have normal relationships with the rest of society. For years, society has put them down because they were different.

I represent one the largest Black communities in Canada, the original Black community of Preston. For years and years, the racism that community had to face was unconscionable. In many cases, in certain areas, it still exists.

We have a long way to go. I go to many schools, and we always hear the word “tolerant”. We hear that we are tolerant of each other. I am asking all parliamentarians and all Canadians to throw that word out. We should get the Webster dictionary to throw that word away. We should be celebrating our diversity. Whether someone is from Asia, Africa, Europe, or elsewhere, and whether someone is aboriginal, gay, straight, lesbian, or transgender, it should not matter.

We should all be equal under God's eyes. We, as parliamentarians, should set the example of equality for all. Whether one is disabled, young, man or woman, child or senior, it does not matter: we should all be treated equally in this regard. We should respect one another. We can disagree, but we do not have to be disagreeable.

I am hoping that that national conversation will take place so that no more Amanda Todds and no more Rehteah Parsons have to happen, and that when these young children feel they are under a tremendous amount of pressure, they can not only go to their parents but should be able to reach out to the general society, and we should be there with open arms, saying “We know you have a concern and a problem, and we are going to help you walk through this.”

This legislation is important. It is critical that we get it done right. Apparently there are 37 provisions in this bill that have nothing to do with cyberbullying, so I am hopeful that when the bill gets to committee, the committee members can agree with expert advice to ensure that we get it right the first time.

I am sure not one parliamentarian in this House wants to make a mistake on this one. It is too critical to get it right. However, even if it is the gold-plated model and it gets sent through and it is done, it may not prevent future cyberbullying. What may do it is going back to the personal responsibility that we all have in our community, right across this country and for that matter internationally, to ensure that when someone feels pressure and feels there is no other way out except to commit suicide, we are able to help them.

A friend of mine works at the Kids Help Phone. Even though she is not permitted to tell me the specific nature of the call or the names, when these kids call that number, I know that my friend goes home literally a changed person every night because of some of the calls she takes. She volunteers for that. These kids are reaching out for help.

I am hopeful that we get the legislation right. The government will have our support when it is done correctly, and we will get it to the committee, but on top of that, we need to ensure that all of us—family, friends, parents, and community members right across this country—work together collectively to ensure that we all take responsibility in the raising and the future and the care of our children.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. He is certainly one of the gentlemen of this place. I had the pleasure of working very closely with the member for Sackville—Eastern Shore on the veterans committee and it was a pleasant experience indeed, even though we are in different parties.

The hon. member referenced the fact that 37 of the 47 clauses in the bill are taken from the e-snooping bill of Vic Toews, which we were promised would not come back. The clause that is most troubling, frankly, is the one that would give immunity to holders of electronic records if they voluntarily disclose them. This would include telephone companies and Internet service providers. However, that disclosure is not limited to investigations around cyberbullying; it is wide open.

My question to my hon. colleague is on the breadth of the legislation. Does he have any concerns with respect to the e-snooping and online surveillance capacity of the legislation?

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the member is absolutely correct.

We have to make sure that we get the legislation correct and that it deals with what we are talking about in terms of cyberbullying. The legislation contains other components that are not related to cyberbullying. We are hoping that the government will understand that, take those provisions out and have them discussed in a separate piece of legislation. That would enable us to focus strictly on the matter at hand, which is cyberbullying.

We should not muddy the waters on this one. We owe it to the memories of Jamie Hubley, Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons to get this right, and especially for their families.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the member for Sackville—Eastern Shore for his speech.

There are a couple of quotes that I remember from his speech. He said that all parents need to have a conversation with their children about cyberbullying and about bullying in general. We absolutely agree with that. I think everyone here agrees with that. He also said that it is our collective community responsibility to give young people the tools they need to protect themselves against any form of bullying. I commend him for that, and I think we all agree with that as well.

Earlier we talked about the Canadian Centre for Child Protection and the things it is doing with NeedHelpNow.ca. The member for Ottawa Centre mentioned Digital Voices. These are all tools that are available now to help people.

The member also mentioned 37 clauses that have nothing to do with cyberbullying, but I do not think he is correct. If he looks at recommendation 4 of the working group report he would see that they require data preservation demands and orders, new production orders to trace a specified communication, new warrants of production orders for transmission data, improved judicial oversight while enhancing efficiencies in relation to authorizations, as well as warrants and orders and other amendments to existing offences to give the police the investigative power they need to in fact make the cyberbullying provisions work.

I submit to the member that if we were to take out many of the provisions he is highlighting in that number, the cyberbullying bill that we are all here to debate today would be toothless and unenforceable.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the last thing I would confess to is having a legal mind, but I do know that when the bill gets to committee we will be inviting those experts who understand the legal technicalities of the warrants, the search premises and all the stuff within the parameters of the bill.

It is rather ironic that I am talking about cyberbullying when I myself do not even use a computer, smart phone or BlackBerry in any way, shape or form. However, the reality is that many of my colleagues and friends do, as do their families and kids.

Whatever provisions are added or deleted, at the end of the day what is most critical, and I am sure the hon. member would agree, is that the bill is done right, that there are no court challenges, that the Supreme Court years down the road will not strike it down because of some technicality.

We have to make sure of that collectively. It would not just be the government's fault. It would be all of our faults if we do not get it done right the first time.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by applauding my many colleagues who have worked tirelessly to address cyberbullying. The hon. members for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord and Dartmouth—Cole Harbour both feel strongly about that issue and have shown admirable dedication. The member for Gatineau also spoke on this issue on Wednesday. In her eloquent, nuanced and compassionate speech, she explained that politicians have a duty to take action on this issue.

I would like to touch on two topics today. First of all, this cyberbullying bill does talk about cyberbullying, as one would expect. However, it also touches on a wide variety of issues that have nothing, or very little, to do with cyberbullying. As these issues are covered in the bill, they must be discussed, although we would have preferred to stay focused on the most pressing issue.

The most pressing issue, of course, is cyberbullying. The traditional bullying that used to happen face to face in schoolyards has now become an after-school, underhanded and often anonymous activity. By its very nature, this type of bullying can occur at any time rather than only during the school day. There is no refuge; victims know that the violence will keep on going even if they try to ignore or escape from it.

Everybody can be a victim and it can happen anywhere. We know, however, that the victims are most often our children. With the current technology, it is all too easy to conduct heinous and malevolent attacks, a behaviour that likely reflects a more generalized malaise, as well as a lack of goals and optimism in our society. This new and violent phenomenon has a long-term impact on the lives of thousands of young people, as well as other individuals and families.

As is the case for any phenomenon that affects the health, safety and well-being of Canadians, elected officials must recognize the problem and take action. It is no longer a question of this being a good initiative, it is a question of our responsibility as elected officials. It is our duty to work together to identify the most effective legislative response as quickly as possible to help those who are persecuted and are suffering even today. It is our duty to not create distractions that could delay the implementation of measures, or even worse, undermine this objective.

Therefore, I wish to salute the people in this chamber who have tackled this issue, recognized the importance of this problem and listened to parents and those working in the schools. I am referring to the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord in particular, who channelled his long-standing passion for this issue into Motion No. 385 to create a national bullying prevention strategy. Unfortunately, in spite of my colleague's motion, we still do not have a strategy. I continue to hope that the government will move forward on this issue.

My colleague, the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, made a point of meeting with the families and stakeholders following the death of a young girl whose name we are unfortunately all familiar with. This is a human tragedy that has been given a great deal of media coverage in recent months. We must also recognize the good intentions of our colleague from Vancouver Centre, who has also worked on this issue. We should also note this government's good intentions, because it is consulting the provinces and territories in order to find solutions. Everyone here agrees that we have a responsibility towards those who are victims of cyberbullying.

Bill C-540 illustrated the urgent need for action and, to that end, sought a consensus among parliamentarians devoid of any partisanship. The Conservatives told us that we had to be patient because there was work to be done, with the provinces and territories in particular, before such a bill could be passed. In the case of such crucial issues, it is good to hear about co-operation rather than confrontation.

In the end, the government introduced a bill very similar to the one brought forward by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. Bill C-13 would make it an offence under the Criminal Code to publish, distribute, transmit, sell, make available or advertise an intimate image of a person, knowing that the person depicted in the image did not give their consent, or being reckless as to whether or not that person gave their consent. The bill also allows courts to make an order to seize and electronically destroy the images and mentions the recovery of expenses incurred to obtain the removal of such images.

It becomes apparent that these clauses, in large part taken from Bill C-540, actually make up a small portion of Bill C-13. They account for roughly six or seven of the bill's 47 clauses. According to this Tuesday's Le Devoir, only three of the bill's 65 pages actually deal with cyberbullying.

I get the urge to end my speech right there, to sit back down and to rise again on a completely different subject, so that I can address the 40 or so other clauses in the bill that deal with completely different issues.

It is not a single bill we have before us, but two, three or even four bills.

It is as if, in response to the SARS crisis of 2003, the government had insisted on abolishing VIA Rail before moving to establish the Public Health Agency of Canada. It makes no sense. It is like holding an urgent public issue hostage.

The second part of Bill C-13 amends not only the Criminal Code, but also the Competition Act and the Terrorist Financing Act. It deals with banks' financial data, the theft of telecommunication services and telemarketing.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It is my duty to interrupt the hon. member, as it is now time to move on to private members' business.

It being 1:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

The hon. member will have about 15 minutes remaining to conclude his remarks the next time the bill is before the House.

The House resumed from November 29, 2013 consideration of the motion that Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak about Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act, which would update the Criminal Code to respond to the pernicious issue of cyberbullying. Bill C-13 achieves this goal by proposing new criminal offences of distribution of intimate images without the consent of the persons depicted.

Further, to ensure that police are properly equipped to investigate and enforce the proposed new offences and other criminal offences that involve the use of the Internet or that leave behind electronic evidence, the bill also proposes to modernize the Criminal Code's investigative tools. Similar modernization updates are being done to the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act and the Competition Act to ensure that they remain responsive and relevant to the requirements of modern technology.

The bill has received considerable attention in the media, including for the proposed amendments to the investigative tools. I would like to focus my remarks on those elements of Bill C-13 that deal with the investigative tools amendments.

It is not uncommon to hear people talking about how technology has changed their lives. The Internet allows us to book airline tickets from the comfort of our homes, at any time of day or night. GPS systems allow us to get from Montreal to Saskatoon without a road map and without stopping to ask for directions. It has also changed the way that we communicate with each other. Mobile phones keep us connected to each other no matter where we are, and text messaging has made communications so fast and cheap that it is easy to stay in touch with people halfway around the world.

Canadians are world leaders when it comes to using the Internet. In 2012, 83% of Canadians over the age of 16 used the Internet in their personal lives, and that number continues to rise. The possibilities and opportunities that these technologies open up for us are nothing short of incredible. However, just as these technologies can be used to bring people together, they can be used for nefarious ends. Technology can facilitate a wide range of criminal behaviour, including the sexual exploitation of children, identity fraud and, as we have seen most recently, serious forms of cyberbullying.

Technology has also introduced us to new crimes that simply did not exist before there were computers. Crimes like computer hacking and denial of service attacks have been added to the criminal justice lexicon.

Technology has changed the types of evidence that are left behind after a crime has been committed. Previously, a telephone number may have revealed the identity of a suspect; this information may now be found in the transmission data of an email. Conspiracies can be created in online chat rooms, and people even speak of electronic fingerprints.

It is time to update the offences in the Criminal Code to reflect these new ways of committing old crimes, as is the case when we think about bullying versus cyberbullying. The amendments in Bill C-13 would update the investigative powers in the Criminal Code and the Competition Act to ensure that investigators have the tools they need to deal with the evidence in this new technological environment.

Some of the proposed Criminal Code modernization amendments found in Bill C-13 would update existing offences, while some of them would update existing investigative tools or create new ones.

With regard to the existing Criminal Code offences, Bill C-13 proposes to update the crimes of conveying false information, indecent communications, and harassing telephone calls found in section 372. Currently these three offences contain language related to outdated technologies, such as the telephone and telegraph. With the proposed amendments, these same acts would be punishable when committed using email, text messaging, or any means of telecommunications.

As much of the prohibited conduct in section 372 is currently relevant to traditional bullying, for example, repeated and harassing phone calls, the proposed amendments would ensure that these offences are also responsive to cyberbullying.

Further, the bill proposes minor updates to other Criminal Code offences. The amendments are part of the government's efforts to modernize the Criminal Code as it relates to new technologies. For example, amendments to the offence of possession of a device to obtain telecommunications services are also being made to another possession offence in the Criminal Code in relation to the possession of computer hacking tools. These amendments make the two similar provisions consistent with each other and, in an effort to increase transparency, update them to reflect the current jurisprudence in the areas that hold that a device includes a computer program.

On this particular issue, it has been very wrongly reported in the media that Bill C-13 proposes to criminalize the theft of cable signals. In fact, the theft of cable signals has been in the Criminal Code since 1960.

As to Bill C-13's proposed modernization of investigative tools, these amendments are designed to target electronic devices and tailored to ensure minimal intrusion on privacy and civil liberties.

There has been some confusion about some of the investigative tools included in the bill. I hope to dispel some of these myths today as I explain the rationale and the reasoning behind these necessary changes to the criminal law.

First, the bill proposes two new tools aimed at preserving volatile electronic evidence. They are called preservation demand and preservation orders. I would like to emphasize that preservation should not be confused with data retention schemes.

Nothing in this legislation would require Internet service providers to collect everyone's information and keep it on hand indefinitely. A preservation demand or order would require a person or a business that is not the target of the investigation to preserve a prescribed set of computer data, for example, an intimate image found on a website. The data could be preserved only for a limited amount of time in association with a specific investigation.

A good way to think of this particular tool is as a “do not delete” order; it simply asks the person to preserve or save the information already in his or her possession for a limited period of time. This tool is essential to enable the police to conduct effective investigations in the area where crucial evidence can be deleted with a simple keystroke.

The preservation demand or preservation order would provide the police with enough time to go to a judge and get the warrants or orders needed to obtain the highly volatile evidence. The police can do this without fear that the data they need will be lost or deleted, either intentionally or inadvertently as a matter of regular business practices, during the period that it takes to obtain a warrant or production order for that data.

The duration of the preservation order would be limited to 21 days for domestic investigations and 90 days for international ones. This means that if a police officer does not get the court order or a warrant obtained for the preserved data before the demand expires, that data would not be retained in the ordinary course of business and would be destroyed. The data would not be provided to the police without a court order or warrant.

If the duration of the preservation order needs to be extended, the police would have to return to a judge or justice to obtain a preservation order. The police would then be given up to 90 days to get the production order or a warrant to obtain the data that has been preserved. If the police do not get the production order or the warrant by the time the preservation order expires, the person in possession of the preserved data is required to destroy it, unless his or her business practices otherwise require that it be retained. This means that only specific computer data would be preserved under this scheme for a limited period of time and only for the purpose of an investigation.

An even more fundamental privacy safeguard of the scheme is that the computer data that would not otherwise be kept by a business would be destroyed as soon as it is no longer needed for an investigation.

These safeguards exemplify our efforts to respect privacy throughout the bill, and to respect privacy under Canadian law.

In addition to the preservation scheme, the bill proposes to update the existing production order regime. A production order is a judicial order that requires third parties, such as a bank, to provide the police with documents containing data in connection with an investigation. This is in contrast to a search warrant that would also be issued judicially but would allow the police to search for the material themselves.

There are currently two types of production orders in the Criminal Code. These are production orders for a very particular type of basic financial information, such as the status and type of bank account, as well as the more general production order for any type of data that might be needed to conduct an investigation.

Often the requirements of an investigation are quite targeted, and general production orders could provide the police with a lot more information than they require in certain circumstances. In those cases, it makes sense to have specific tools, such as a financial data production order, that would allow the police to obtain the specific data they are looking for and that are designed to reflect the expected privacy associated with that particular type of data.

One way of thinking about this kind of tailoring is as privacy with precision. Instead of using one big tool for every problem, we would be providing several tools that are more precisely suited to specific types of problems.

The bill proposes to retain two existing categories of production orders already found in the existing Criminal Code. In addition, it is proposing three more to deal with specific types of data associated with modern technology.

In particular, Bill C-13 proposes to create production orders for historic tracking data, which would permit police to determine, for example, the pattern of bank card usage for a period of time; historic data related to the routing of telecommunications, such as the time an email was sent, and to which address, which would be known as transmission data; and historic data designed to trace specific communications.

The last type of production order would be a very important tool to address the complexities of modern communication, as it would allow the police to trace the origin of communications that may have gone through several different service providers before it reached its destination.

Other changes that are being proposed in Bill C-13 would impact the existing tracking warrant provisions. This is different from the production order for tracking data which provides information about past movements.

Police have been able to get judicially authorization tracking warrants for over 20 years, which permit them to track the whereabouts of a person in real time. As one can imagine, technology has changed a lot in that time. Where police were once able to track people with limited accuracy, there are now technologies that can track objects much more precisely and closely.

Bill C-13 proposes to split the existing tracking warrant provisions into two types of warrants: one for tracking people, and one for tracking the location of a transaction or the movement of such things as a car.

The warrant for tracking things would continue to be available on the standard of reasonable grounds to suspect, like the existing tracking warrant provision. However, this legislation proposes to increase the threshold necessary to get a tracking warrant in the situation where people would be tracked. This would mean that when police officers apply to the judge or justice for a warrant to do this more continuous and accurate type of tracking, the officer would have to meet a higher test to convince the judge that the tracking warrant is needed.

This is a dual approach, which would allow the police to retain the efficiency of the lower threshold warrant while increasing the privacy protections in situations where the greater privacy interests are at play.

Another warrant provision which Bill C-13 is proposing to update is currently known as the number recorder warrant. This permits the police to monitor the phone numbers dialed from a particular telephone and the numbers which call a particular telephone.

Although it is true that some of us still use traditional telephones to communicate, few old-fashioned dialing mechanisms are still in use. An increasing number of Canadians are using smart phones, text messaging, email, and other high-tech methods to communicate. Police need to be able to capture the routing information that these new technologies produce, the same way that we can currently capture the phone numbers under existing warrants. The proposed transmission data recorder warrant and the new production order for transmission data would allow police to do just that.

Where police could previously only get the phone number of someone who was dialing, they would now be able to get parallel updated forms of communication destination information like email addresses as well. This would provide for much-needed modernization in this area, since technology has moved well beyond telephone dialing.

I think it is important to emphasize that this warrant would retain the Criminal Code's existing privacy protections. Neither the warrant nor the production order would allow police to obtain the content of people's emails, text messages, or phone calls. They would not even get the subject line of emails using this warrant. In essence, Bill C-13 would permit police to get information about where a communication is coming from or where it is going to. That is the only kind of information they are going to get with this warrant and production order.

Besides these new and improved investigative tools, Bill C-13 also proposes to clarify and safeguard the common law powers of police. Section 487.014 would be amended to remove the requirement for police to be administering or enforcing an act of Parliament before they can ask for information. The current wording has been creating problems for the police in performing everyday duties, such as getting information for the purpose of notifying a next of kin.

There has been some concern about this amendment removing the limits on what police can ask of persons who voluntarily provide information. Let me be clear. The common law powers of the police are rooted in legitimate police business, which is one limit. Further, the existing restrictions on the provider of the information would remain. They can only provide information that they are not otherwise prohibited by law from disclosing. Indeed, providers of information will be governed by federal or provincial privacy legislation that will restrict the disclosure of personal information. To be clear, the primary purpose of this provision is to ensure that police do not need a production order every time they want to ask a question.

These amendments are the result of extensive consultations, both on the elements relating to the proposed new offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images and on the modernization of investigative tools.

The proposals in Bill C-13 were recommended in recent federal, provincial, territorial reports on the issue on cyberbullying and non-consensual distribution of intimate images, which was released in July 2013 and supported by the federal, provincial, territorial ministers in November 2013.

The report strongly recommends both the proposed new offences and the reintroduction of the elements related to the modernization of investigative tools. The report also recommends that the enactment of new offences be supported by updated investigative tools.

Bill C-13 would provide police with a set of tools which would allow them to be effective and efficient in conducting a complex investigation in the modern world. This would apply to serious forms of cyberbullying, including the proposed new offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images as well, or other offences that occurred in cases of cyberbullying, such as criminal harassment or extortion.

Our government is committed to combatting cybercrime in all forms. This bill is a necessary addition to the legislative tool kit.

When we look at the legislation, it is important that we really highlight the fact of what is going on. The reality is technology has changed, the environment in which our police services work in has changed, and they need modernization of the tools so they can go about doing the job they have been asked to do for many years.

We need to ensure they have access to the tools and the information, so we can still protect our families and our loved ones when they are victims of cyberbullying or cyber crime. When we see situations where someone is trying to entice someone to do something wrong, or when we see situations where people are being bullied or harassed, we will have the tools to prevent that from leading to something more serious.

It is important that we see proper legislation move forward. It is very important that we balance the privacy rights of the individuals with the rights of the police and the rights of the victim. The way this legislation is drafted, we have done just that. We will allow the data to be retained, but at the same time the police officers involved will have to receive the warrant before they can use the data. That is relevant and it makes a lot of common sense. I think a lot of Canadians would understand that.

I just hope that all members appreciate the importance of this bill. It is very important that we modernize our laws and our abilities to take advantage of new technologies as they become available, and to take on new criminal activities that are using the new technologies, ensuring we have the tools for our police officers to ensure these new technologies are not abused but are used for what they were originally intended, for public good.

I hope all members of the House will support the need for modern tools for modern times. Bill C-13 would provide just that. I look forward to questions.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP will be voting in favour of this bill, because it is very similar to the bill introduced by my colleague from Nova Scotia. However, I find the lack of prevention included in the bill really unfortunate.

I understand that the government wanted to focus on criminalization, but could the bill not have been improved by placing greater emphasis on prevention, as well as criminalization?

The House of Commons wants to protect as many young people as possible from the scourge of bullying, and right now, I do not see much in the way of prevention in this bill.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the member brings up a good point. The bill is one part of the equation. I am sure the Minister of Justice and others would agree with this, but I do not want to speak on their behalf.

If we look at this, it is just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to cyberbullying. Education as well as the exact things the member is looking for are very important things that we should be considering as we debate the bill through committee.

The reality is we need to ensure we put the tools in place for the police forces so they have the ability to take on these criminals. That does not mean this is the end all and be all. This does not solve what we are looking at; it is part of the puzzle to solve the equation.

Education and other factors need to be looked at. We have to ensure that our kids are kept safe. Not only that, we have to ensure that our kids understand the consequences of their actions when they send text messages or images. They need to understand there are consequences, and that they could be hurting someone when they make that anonymous note in an email, text or tweet. Their actions will have consequences and will impact someone's life. Just because we are not looking at them, we should not think it is not happening.

It is very important that this be a part of many things to tackle cyberbullying.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for outlining some of the effects of Bill C-13 and how it would help to modernize the tools available to our police forces to investigate, to actually reflect the fact that there are many changes in modern technology.

A number of years ago I introduced a private member's motion in the House, Motion No. 388, which sought to clarify an offence in the Criminal Code of encouraging someone to die by suicide. While it currently is an offence in the Criminal Code, it was not clear in the code as to whether that included telecommunications and Internet technology. Motion No. 388, which passed unanimously in the House, called on government to implement some of those changes.

I was pleased to note that in the comments made by my colleague and also some comments I was able to read that the bill would actually give police better tools to track and trace telecommunications, their origins and destinations. Could my colleague highlight how the bill would make it impossible for those who would presume to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet to continue to do that kind of devious work?

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is a disgusting act to go online to convince somebody to take his or her own life. I think everybody in the House would agree with my colleague that his motion was an honourable one, a motion that definitely needed to come forward. I hope to see it enacted as we move forward.

One of the important things we are seeing in this, and which he highlighted in his question, is the fact that we are giving police the tools to actually trace where information comes from and who is doing this type of stuff. It is not being done to just one person; it is being done to multiple people. It is a sickness that needs to be dealt with. I call it a sickness because I do not know what else to call it. It is very disgusting when someone takes on the role of convincing somebody else to take his or her own life.

Having said that, we need to ensure we have balance. We need to ensure we preserve people's rights, dignity and privacy, and we want to ensure that exists. We also want to ensure that when we come across a situation where this is happening, police officers can have the data preserved so they can get court orders and warrants to do the proper investigation. There has to be a proper process put in place, which has been done in Bill C-13.

I look forward to seeing what impact these changes would have and that hopefully this bill would solve the issues involved in cyberbullying and the people who are disgusting enough to try to convince somebody else to commit suicide.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for me this issue is very important. As a young woman, I have grown up with a lot of technology around and have learned to be wary over the years. Certainly young people need to know how to protect themselves, et cetera.

My colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord raised the importance of preventive measures. He presented a motion on a national strategy to prevent and end bullying. Unfortunately, the Conservatives voted against that. I would like to know why my colleague voted against that and believed it was not a good way forward to prevent bullying.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, preventive measures are very important, which I think we would all agree on, but we also have to ensure we put a process in the bill, which we have done, that allows individual privacy to be protected, data to be retained and preserved, and a court order to be garnered before existing data is used. Police officers cannot simply say that they are going to start an investigation and grab all the information just for information sake. They actually have to ask for it to be preserved. They have to go the court to seek the appropriate legal warrant to use the data and then proceed with the criminal investigation. That is why Bill C-13 is so much better than what was proposed by the opposition.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. Conservative member opposite mentioned that the government's approach was better than the approach taken in the two bills introduced by the opposition, the NDP.

Based on my motion calling for a national bullying prevention strategy, we could have tackled many different kinds of cyberbullying. The Conservative bill deals only with sharing intimate photographs without people's consent. Many young people in Canada are being bullied in ways that do not include nude pictures being passed around. This can include hateful or threatening comments. Unfortunately, the government bill does not cover that.

Not only does the Conservative bill not meet Canadians' expectations, but it covers only one small part of the equation of cyberbullying.

Given what I just said, how can my Conservative colleague say that the NDP approach, which was more comprehensive, was not as good as the government's approach, which covers only the sharing of intimate photographs without consent?

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is very important that we look at what we are trying to achieve here. We are not trying to get into partisan politics. We are not trying to say that ours is better than theirs, or theirs is better than ours. What we are really trying to do is focus on the fact people out there are being cyberbullied.

There is a process that needs to be put in place. There are tools available to the police services that they are not able to utilize. This bill would allow them to be utilized. It would also take on the fact that privacy would have to be respected. The bill would put in place a process to not only protect the data, but to ensure that the RCMP or the police services involved would have to get the legal warrant before they could continue on with their investigation.

The bill would safeguard privacy and would put in place tools so police forces could be effective in doing their job. These are tools that the police, at this point in time, are unable to use.

I am not going to get into partisan politics on which bill is better or who could do this better. I look forward to the debate at committee, because it is a great place for all of that to be discussed. There might be some better ideas that need to be added.

The reality is that this is a really good step. This proposed bill will save lives. It will address cyberbullying. It will address intimate images being used in cyberbullying attacks. I hope the bill will also address the disgusting act of convincing somebody to commit suicide over the Internet. It is a step in the right direction. Not only that, it is part of the bigger picture and the bigger puzzle. Education and other items of knowledge need to be passed to our kids so they understand exactly what they are doing when they send that text message or that email.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I must start by thanking my NDP colleagues for allowing me to speak on Bill C-13 today, because as a result of the application of time allocation for what I think was the 58th time, many of my colleagues will not have an opportunity to speak on this bill. Despite all of my colleagues obviously being New Democrats, we are a very diverse caucus with different experiences, and we represent different kinds of ridings here in the House of Commons.

I have risen to speak in favour of Bill C-13, but I do so with some reservations.

Unfortunately, the bill is, in effect, yet another omnibus bill that mixes together many other issues with the one that should have been central—that is, bullying and cyberbullying. Instead we have a rather mixed bag of provisions instead of a focused response to the urgent challenges of bullying and cyberbullying.

Rather than trying to address all the issues in the bill, I want to focus my remarks today on two aspects: first, the need for effective action to combat bullying; second, the proposed amendment to the hate crime section of the Criminal Code which, surprisingly, also appears in the bill in clause 12.

Since 2011, we in this House have had several opportunities to act on the issues of bullying and cyberbullying, but unfortunately we have made little progress. Nearly 18 months ago my colleague, the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, put forward a motion, Motion No. 385, which called upon the federal government to develop a national strategy with concrete steps to combat bullying. Unfortunately, the Conservatives voted down the motion, dismissing it as a call for further study, when in fact it was a call for leadership from the federal government in the fight against bullying and cyberbullying.

Last summer, on June 17, the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour introduced a private member's bill, Bill C-540, which would amend the Criminal Code in order to make the non-consensual making or distribution of intimate images a criminal offence. At that time, we asked the government to expedite passage of the bill in order to try to prevent further tragedies like the suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons, which took place as a result of cyberbullying. Unfortunately, the government preferred to wait for its own bill, which has delayed action on this critical issue for nearly a year.

What we have before us now in Bill C-13 is much narrower than a strategy to combat cyberbullying, though it does have some provisions similar to those the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour proposed many months ago.

We are, of course, supporting the bill going to committee, precisely because some legislative action against cyberbullying is necessary, but again I want to emphasize that focusing on bullying after the fact can only be part of the solution.

Today I want to reiterate two points I made when speaking 18 months ago in support of our motion for a national anti-bullying strategy. They relate to the pervasiveness of bullying in our society and to its amplification by the existence of new technologies.

The prevalence and pervasiveness of bullying in Canada is truly shocking. In fact, bullying is happening around us all the time. In one analysis of Toronto-area schools, it was found that a student is bullied every seven seconds.

Egale Canada conducted a survey of homophobia and transphobia in schools across Canada. It found that 74% of transidentified students, 55% of lesbian, gay, and bisexual students, and 26% of non-LGBTQ students reported being verbally harassed. More than half of those reported that this bullying occurred on a daily or weekly basis.

One UBC study of students in grades 8 to 10 found that 64% of students reported they had been bullied. Even more saddening for me is their acceptance of that inevitability, because 64% of these same students said they found bullying to be a normal part of school life.

People are bullied for an almost infinite number of reasons, but almost all of those reasons are connected to hostility toward deviation from the perceived norm: for being too short, too tall, too fat, too thin; for where they were born, the colour of their skin, the language they speak at home; for having an accent, for the clothes they wear, for sexual orientation, for their gender, for their gender presentation, for what they are able to afford. The list goes on and on, but the result is always the same: creating a sense of exclusion for the victims of bullying.

As technology has advanced, so has the means of bullying, with social networking, smart phones, and the Internet becoming second nature to people in Canada, especially young people. So has utilizing these resources for bullying. As a result, bullying has become intensified and its impacts more widely distributed.

Bullying is no longer a problem that only happens at school, on the school bus, or on the playground. It is no longer just a workplace problem. It can now follow victims home and invade their lives 24 hours a day each and every day of the year.

The consequences of bullying and the effects of bullying need to be taken seriously. We all know that the impacts of bullying on youth can be drastic and long-lasting. Young people who are bullied are more likely to face depression. It is estimated that male victims of bullying are five times more likely, and females victims three times more likely, to be depressed than their non-bullied classmates.

People who are victims of bullying are more susceptible to low self-esteem and are more likely to suffer from anxiety and illnesses. Young people who are bullied are more likely to engage in substance abuse and self-harm, and in recent years we have seen the tragic rise in the trend toward youth bullycide. The list of those young people who have taken their own lives as a result of bullying is already too long, and unfortunately continues to grow.

The costs of bullying are found not just on its impact on individuals. Bullying has wider social costs. One study has found that of elementary school bullies, one in four will have a criminal record by the time they are 30 years old.

We can and must move beyond our platitudes and expressions of concern about bullying and not limit our responses only to actions taken after the damage has already been done.

We all know that these bullying behaviours are learned. People are not born with hearts full of hate. At the root of our response to bullying must be efforts to build a more open and accepting society. If there was a real intolerance for discrimination and hate, then bullying clearly would not be so pervasive.

We could make a good start by calling bullying what it really is. We need to recognize that most bullying is rooted in sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, and classism. These are serious prejudices that most Canadians find unacceptable in theory, but for some reason they are deemed acceptable when they are expressed in the form of bullying.

The need for a broad strategy as well as for anti-bullying legislation is so obvious. Unfortunately, what we find in the rest of the bill is a mixed bag of only tangentially related provisions, some with no clear connection to the problem at all.

Some things in the bill have been brought forward from the previously failed Bill C-30, but fortunately in this version it looks as if the important principle of judicial oversight of police access to Internet communications may be preserved. I look forward to hearing from Canadians about this aspect again when the bill reaches committee.

One surprise in Bill C-13 was the inclusion of clause 12. This section proposes the addition of some important provisions to the hate crime section of the Criminal Code. I am at a loss to explain why this proposal has suddenly appeared in the bill, but I think it is a positive thing.

Bill C-13 suggests adding national origins, age, sex, and mental or physical disability to the existing provisions of the hate crime section of the Criminal Code. While the connection to the other aspect of the bill is not immediately obvious, as I said, I do believe this is a good thing, but what is missing from this section is gender identity. This House has twice voted in favour of adding gender identity to the hate crime section of the Criminal Code, yet it is not included in clause 12 of the bill.

My own private member's bill, Bill C-279, is still stuck in the Senate more than a year after being passed in this House, and while I remain hopeful it will be adopted soon, there is an obvious potential problem in the conflict between Bill C-13 and my own private member's bill. Unfortunately, if the Senate does pass Bill C-279, clause 12 of Bill C-13 would inadvertently undo half that progress. Bill C-13 in its present form would actually remove gender identity from the hate crime section of the Criminal Code if my private member's bill has already passed, so when we get to committee, we will be having a serious discussion about an amendment to add gender identity to fix this omission.

It was more than three years ago that this House, in a minority Parliament, voted to add gender identity to the hate crime section of the Criminal Code, and, as I said, more than a year ago we voted to do that in my own private member's bill, so I am hoping that this proposed amendment to the hate crime section was inadvertent in its omission of gender identity and that this omission can be fixed in committee.

Let me return to what I believe is the important question that should be at the centre of Bill C-13, which is that there is an urgent need for Parliament to provide national leadership in the fight against bullying.

Despite our concerns about the bill being an omnibus bill and despite many of the other things stuffed into Bill C-13, we are supporting sending the bill to committee so that we can continue the dialogue on the important issue of bullying and cyberbullying.

What is of concern to me, as I mentioned at the outset, is the attitude that has become prevalent on the other side of the House that when three or four members have spoken, it is time to end debate. The very root of the word “Parliament” means a place where we can talk about the important national issues.

I feel it is a great privilege to stand here and speak to Bill C-13 as a man who comes from the LGBTQ community, which suffers inordinately from bullying. I think I bring a perspective somewhat different from that of some other members of the House. As someone from Vancouver Island, where we have a lot of early adapters of new technology, I know we see huge problems of bullying and cyberbullying in local schools. Frankly, teachers are at their wits' end in trying to find ways to deal effectively with it.

One thing that has been common in the responses I have received is a warning that we not look simply to criminal sanctions for youth to combat cyberbullying and that criminalizing bullying for young people could in fact be a serious problem.

I come back to the idea that we cannot just focus on what happens after the bullying. We have to provide national leadership in coming up with ways to attack this problem before the damage actually takes place. Some may say that is not a federal responsibility, but it is in the sense that when bullying and cyberbullying reach their most vicious levels, they often result in criminal acts. Since the Criminal Code is the responsibility of this federal Parliament, then we do have a responsibility for crime prevention. I would argue very strongly that a national strategy to prevent bullying and cyberbullying is a matter of crime prevention.

On the other side of the House we hear a lot of discussion about victims. We share the concern for victims in Canadian society, but how can we do our best job in addressing the needs of victims? We can do that by preventing victimization. Once again, there is a responsibility for the House to look at what we can do to make sure that victims are not created through bullying and cyberbullying.

When we get to committee, I would ask members on the other side to keep an open mind about those other things that we can do. We do not need just to find criminal sanctions, although there are some things here that I agree are necessary and that will be useful in the most extreme cases, but there are many more things we can do to make this the Canada that we all love and believe is a great place that includes a space for all Canadians.

Unfortunately, the evidence of bullying and cyberbullying shows that is not always the case. Whether we are talking about immigrant communities and their desire to contribute to Canada fully or whether we are talking about the LGBTQ community and our desire to be accepted in Canadian society and play our role very fully or whether we are talking about those with disabilities who are often sidelined in our society, we have to take all the measures that we can to make our country more inclusive and make it one we can all be even prouder of than we are now.

How do we do that? I come back to this argument again and again. We put forward a motion calling for a national strategy to combat bullying and cyberbullying, and this is where Bill C-13 falls short. It has measures looking at what we can do after the fact to investigate criminal cases of bullying. It has measures to help apprehend those people who ultimately have performed criminal acts when it comes to bullying, but it does not have measures that would help reduce this problem in our society.

I will return to my concern over Bill C-279.

It is a difficult situation for some people to understand. My bill should have already passed through the Senate and should already be law. We now have a situation in which transgendered Canadians are subject to hate crimes and bullying and are the group most subject to violence of all groups in our society. If that private member's bill—which passed the House a year ago, as I said several times today—had already been passed, we would have some of the tools we need to combat the epidemic of violence against transgendered people in Canada.

Canada is not alone. Transgendered people are the most subject to violence everywhere around the world. I remain very sad that the Senate has taken so long to get down to business on passing Bill C-279. It held hearings and heard witnesses a year ago in June at the human rights committee. It essentially finished the process of examining the bill and found it acceptable; then, because of prorogation, the process had to start over.

I am at a loss to see why the bill has to go back to another committee, this time to a legislative and constitutional affairs committee. We have had the promise from the senators that they will take up the bill in committee soon; however, that promise was made in February and we are now in April.

I am emphasizing this in Bill C-13 because this is where the two bills come together: in clause 12 and those amendments to the hate crimes section of the Criminal Code that are in this bill but fail to include gender identity. We have this unfortunate grinding of gears between the two Houses here. If in committee we are able to add gender identity to Bill C-13, that would be a good thing, because as a government bill it would make its way through the Senate expeditiously. I have now begun to fear that Bill C-279 will face the same fate as the previous bill on transgender rights and that it will die in the Senate without action before the next election. If we can get half a loaf here in Bill C-13, I am prepared to work for that. I look for support from the other side in correcting what I hope was an inadvertent omission of gender identity from those amendments that are in clause 12.

When we go back to our ridings when Bill C-13 is in committee, I know that all of us will hear from members of our communities about the urgency of what we are doing. And I know we will hear again from the Conservatives about the urgency. However, I have to emphasize that we have had many opportunities since 2011 to actually take action on what I call “remedial actions”, those things that take place after the fact. Again, I remain disappointed that the Conservatives would not expedite the private member's bill from the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, and we could have already had the non-consensual distribution of sexual images in the Criminal Code by this time. We would not still be waiting for that to happen. Of course, we could have already had a committee that had prepared a national strategy with concrete actions to combat bullying and cyberbullying.

As we near the summer recess, I am hoping Bill C-13 will actually get through, but then it also would face the hurdle of the Senate. Would the Senate deal expeditiously with this bill? Would it actually get these provisions passed in a timely manner? I can only hope that it would, but the irony is that Bill C-13 would go to the Constitution and legal affairs committee of the Senate where my private member's bill is also supposed to be going. The chances of both getting through before we get to summer seems kind of small. We have both the broader group of all those who face bullying and the narrower group of those trans Canadians who are depending on the Senate to take effective action soon. However, that just does not seem to be the way the Senate proceeds.

[An hon. member]

It is a mystery.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as one of my colleagues said, it is a mystery to me.

We had Amnesty International provide leadership, in creating a letter from 100 civil society organizations, which was sent to the Senate earlier this year, asking it to take urgent action on Bill C-279. Within two days, there was a response saying that it would act immediately and nothing has happened. So obviously the sense of what “immediate” means in the Senate and in this House is quite different.

My plea with senators today is to deal with Bill C-279 expeditiously and also, when this bill gets to them, as I am sure it will before we recess for the summer, to also deal with Bill C-13 expeditiously. I have to say that I am not optimistic that this will actually happen.

In conclusion, let me say I am proud to stand in this House today and speak to Bill C-13. It does contain things that we need to take action on, but, and there is always this unfortunate “but” when it comes to legislation from the current government, too many things have been stuffed into the same bill and so we are going to have to have some serious discussions in committee about some of the other things that have been tacked on to this bill. One of those is something I am very interested in and that is the question of gender identity in the hate crimes section of the Criminal Code.

I hope we will have co-operation in committee and that we will be able to get that amendment made, get Bill C-13 through this House, and take at least some limited action against bullying and cyberbullying before we recess for the summer.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca is right that this bill is a bit of an omnibus bill. It covers everything from terrorism to telemarketing, cable stealing and hate speech.

I wonder if the member, who is very rightly concerned about the overlap between this bill and his private member's bill, Bill C-279, which is stuck in the Senate, thinks that splitting off all the provisions that relate to cyberbullying into a separate bill, which would allow the committee to leave aside examining the other parts of the bill, would be a better strategy to at least pass part of the bill and make sure it is coordinated with his own private member's bill and get it through the Senate before we rise for the summer.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as usual, the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands takes a reasonable approach to these matters.

I would point out that when Bill C-13 was introduced, on this side we offered exactly what the member suggested. We told the government we were prepared to take out those urgent matters dealing with cyberbullying, have them in a separate bill, and pass them expeditiously through the House. It rejected that approach to doing so. Therefore, while I take seriously that the government wants this action to happen, I remain concerned that at each turn there is more and more delay on things that could have been done much earlier in the House.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague on the tireless work he does on behalf of transgendered people.

I feel it is important to mention during this debate that the NDP has tabled bullying prevention measures. I would like to mention the initiative of my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, who introduced Bill C-540, as well as the work done by my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, who moved Motion No. 385 to create a national bullying prevention strategy.

We asked the Conservatives to work with us but, unfortunately, they played petty politics with this very important issue.

As my colleague mentioned, the government often uses its bills to impose measures that have nothing to do with the bill's objective. We have seen the same thing with omnibus bills.

Could my colleague explain the link between cyberbullying and the fact that this bill includes a two-year sentence for stealing cable signals?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I did not suggest that there be theft of cable signals in this bill. It is a good example of this tendency to stuff a bunch of other things into a bill which is called the prevention of cybercrime as kind of a catch-all title for the bill. Therefore, it makes it very difficult for us as members of Parliament to debate and vote on bills when the government has a bunch of unrelated things put into the same bill.

As I have mentioned, in this case we have seen bills that were dropped, such as Bill C-30, brought back into this bill, admittedly in a better form. However, I am not sure what that has to do with bullying or cyberbullying.

There have been a lot of things mixed together in this bill, which makes it difficult for us to debate and make decisions on this. When we get to committee, perhaps there will be some opportunity to narrow the focus of the bill or improve the focus of the bill. I certainly hope that is the case.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague, who spoke so well, talks about the privilege of speaking here today. I have to say I do feel privileged as well on this issue, especially with respect to the comments regarding the LGBTQ community. My riding of Burnaby—Douglas was home to the great Svend Robinson, who was the first openly gay MP, and Bill Siksay, who was the tireless champion of the LGBTQ community. Now I have the privilege of sitting beside my friend, who is our critic for this area and who I would say is probably the foremost champion of LGBTQ community issues in the House. I thank him for his work. I was struck by his comments about the absence of transgender rights in this bill and was wondering if he cared to comment on that more and what we should do to fix that in committee.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his kind comments. It is a privilege to share a desk with him here in the House of Commons. I get the benefit of his very sharp sense of humour, which does not always appear through the microphones.

I thank him for his kind words. Like all members of the NDP caucus, he has been a firm supporter of LGBTQ rights, and I am very proud to be the spokesperson for our party. It is the only party that has a spokesperson for LGBTQ rights in the House of Commons.

I guess that I am feeling charitable today. I am going to say that I hope that the omission of gender identity from the additions to the hate crimes section was inadvertent. Sometimes, we make Machiavellian conclusions about what is happening in the House when they are not really deserved. I am just not sure.

If we were going to amend that section and the House has already pronounced twice on the issue, it would seem to be obvious then that gender identity should have gone into clause 12 of Bill C-13. When we get to committee, we will certainly be suggesting that it be dealt with at the committee stage.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is my turn to thank my colleague for the work he is doing on bullying and to also thank my colleagues from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord and Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. They are part of a group of MPs who have worked very hard on this issue over the past few years.

The specific question I have is about one of the subjects the member alluded to during his speech, namely the fact that new technologies sometimes make bullying harder on young people. Bullying used to happen in the schoolyard and, once students were out of the yard, there were far fewer ways to connect with young people than there are today.

Why is it important that we, as legislators, adjust our laws to these new technologies, which make it possible to engage in other types of bullying?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member's question reminded me of my own experience, which was of course back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in elementary school. I lived in a rural area, and the bus ride home was hell for me because I was perceived, even at that age, to be insufficiently masculine. As a result, I faced severe bullying on the school bus each and every day. I have to say that I did not face it in the classroom at school and, of course, I did not face it at home. I was literally terrorized by the bus ride every day, and my parents had a hard time understanding why I begged them to drive me to school and begged my grandparents to take me to school. I never wanted to ride the bus.

However, for me, it was a very short period of the day when I was subjected to it. Once I was home, either at my parents' home or my grandparents' home, where I spent a lot of time, I was safe from that bullying. That is the big difference now. Technology has brought that bullying into peoples' homes. It has made it not just a short period of the day, but something that people have to live with and deal with constantly.

Additionally, the anonymity that is sometimes provided by the Internet gives people licence to be even meaner, more vindictive, and more prejudiced than they might otherwise be if their names and faces were assigned to the comments that they are making.

Technology has expanded the time and the places in which individuals are subject to bullying, and it has expanded the intensity of that bullying. It is time to recognize the difference. It is not the bullying that took place when I was a kid. This is something new that is much more pervasive and much more intense.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour and for Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act.

I would like to first set out a bit of context in terms of where we have come from. Members might be aware that it was 25 years ago when the first test was done on the World Wide Web. We have to look at how far we have come in 25 years.

Facebook, a powerful tool, was introduced in 2004. I might be dating myself a bit, but I remember going to my first tutorial to learn about the World Wide Web, and it was very complicated. There were DOS commands and giant computers. Now we have the ability to take a picture with something the size of our palm and distribute it immediately around the world. That is an absolutely incredible change over a relatively short 25 years.

Before I go into the details of the bill and why it is so important, I need to reflect on the fact that this tool in some ways has been fabulous for Canadians and people around the world. I remember a colleague telling me how his grandmother in Argentina every night read a book over Skype to put his child to bed.

We have the ability to pay our bills by email. We have the ability to interact immediately with family around the world. It is much easier to keep those connections we treasure and value.

As politicians we have seen the dark side of the Internet. Anyone who has a Twitter account or a Facebook account regularly sees some of the very vicious comments that come in through those forums. As my colleague across the aisle just said, these comments are often anonymous and vicious. As politicians, we deal with that, but that is nothing compared to really overstepping the bounds and the issues some children and adults have had to deal with.

A quick Google search on cyberbullying immediately brings up hundreds of names. There is Ryan's story, Bronagh's story, and Megan's story. Look at Rehtaeh Parsons and Amanda Todd. Just recently we heard the she allegedly fell victim to someone on the other side of the world.

Times have changed incredibly, and we need to change with the times.

This legislation proposes changes to the Criminal Code, the Competition Act, and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act. The bill would create a law to address the behaviour that can occur in cases of cyberbullying. This new offence would be called non-consensual distribution of intimate images. Investigative powers need to be updated to ensure that they are in line with the modern technology I just talked about, where in one minute, something as small as one's hand reaches across the world.

I would like to expand a bit on the amendments to the Criminal Code and highlight how they are designed to ensure appropriate privacy protection in the face of the new technology. It is a difficult balancing act, because we need to ensure that privacy is protected while providing the tools to tackle these horrendous issues.

There are a few areas I would like to talk about. I will start with preservation orders and demands and updates to the tracking warrant provisions, which are essential tools to ensure that effective investigations are conducted in Canada when the police are faced with crimes involving technology.

What is this new preservation order? The preservation order would create new powers, to be used in both Criminal Code and Competition Act contraventions. The goal of these two new provisions is to ensure that volatile computer data will not be deleted before the police have time to get a warrant or court order to collect it for investigations.

The need for these tools is obvious. Not only is computer data easily deleted but it can also easily be lost through carelessness or just in day-to-day business practice.

A preservation order or demand would legally require a person to keep the computer data that is vital to an investigation long enough for the police to seek the judicial warrants and orders necessary to obtain the information. This tool would ensure that the police could get the investigation under way without the loss of really important evidence.

People may have concerns about the impact of these amendments on a person's right to a reasonable expectation of privacy. They might have heard about Europe's data retention regime and worry that our legislation is going to import that to Canada. That is not what Bill C-13 is doing.

Data retention would allow the collection of a range of data for all telephone and Internet service subscribers for a defined period of time, regardless of whether or not the data was connected with the investigation.

Bill C-13 does not provide for data retention. It provides for data preservation, and that is a very important fact. It would require that specified computer data in connection with a specific investigation and specific people be preserved for a limited period of time.

It is important to understand that this data would not be turned over to the police unless they first obtained a judicial warrant or court order for that disclosure. Also, any of the data that was preserved and whose presentation was not otherwise required for regular business purposes would have to be destroyed as soon as it was no longer needed for the investigation. This would protect the privacy of Canadians. This would also ensure that the regime created in this bill did not inadvertently result in the kind of data retention I have just described.

As members can see, the data preservation scheme the government is proposing is actually quite constrained in its focus and has been designed as a stop-gap measure so that the judicial warrants and the court order police obtain subsequent to access to the evidence are not rendered useless. Again, it is a really important intermittent tool.

Another change Bill C-13 proposes is updating the Criminal Code's existing tracking warrant provision. Of course, this warrant was created in the early 1990s. Police could obtain and use this warrant to track people, cars, or objects. Again, as I described earlier, so much has changed in tracking technology since then and in the accuracy of this tracking technology. The continuity with which it can track things has also improved.

Because of the improvements, the existing tracking warrant is outdated, and its privacy safeguards no longer reflect the reality of modern tracking technology, which could allow for greater privacy invasions than before. This is an important thing we thought we had to tackle.

Bill C-13 proposes to heighten privacy protections for the most invasive uses of tracking technology. This legislation would do this by creating a dual threshold for tracking warrants.The police would be able to get the first kind of tracking warrant the way they have always been able to get one for the less invasive type of tracking: prove to the judge or the justice that they have reasonable grounds to suspect that the warrant will assist in the investigation of an offence. The police would use this warrant to track objects, vehicles, and transactions.

However, for the more invasive technique of tracking a person using a device usually worn or carried by the person, such as a cell phone, the police would have to get a second type of warrant, which would provide for greater privacy protection than the first.

Bill C-13 would provide that to get such a warrant, the police would have to prove to the judge that they had reasonable grounds to believe that the use of a tracking warrant would assist in the investigation of the offence.

Legally, this is a tougher standard to meet, and as a result, it would provide more privacy protection than the first type of warrant, which is about tracking objects. This is an important distinction, as it reflects a higher level of protection, commensurate with the more intrusive potential of tracking persons, which is reflected in the second type of tracking warrant. It was designed to very carefully meet that difficult balance in terms of giving the police tools in the modern day that ensure that there are appropriate safeguards in place.

To bring things to a conclusion, I talked about two specific measures. Canadians have understandably been outraged by the crimes committed through the use of the Internet, including massive fraud and horribly cruel incidents of cyberbullying. I believe that Bill C-13 is both a necessary and balanced response. It would enable law enforcement to have tools to respond to these criminal activities. I encourage all members in this House to support Bill C-13.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my Conservative colleague for mentioning the names of some of the young people who, in the time since we were elected in 2011, unfortunately took their own lives to end the pain caused by bullying.

These days, many cases of cyberbullying do not involve the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. What does the member's government propose in Bill C-13 for those particular cases of bullying?

I read this voluminous, 75-page bill and I did not see any measures for protecting our young people from cyberbullying that does not involve the non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

Can my Conservative colleague elaborate on that?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, a crime is a crime, regardless of whether or not it is on the Internet.

More importantly, we have talked about the distribution of non-consensual intimate images and the ability to remove them. He should talk about the issues we looked at in terms of some of the people. For a good majority of them, the issues are around the distribution of intimate images. We are taking an approach that is going to give police the investigative and legislative tools to truly tackle this issue.

Of course, we need to continue to do the very important work, outside of a legislative process, that is focused on education and making sure that Canadians are aware of this issue. Anything this big requires a multi-pronged approach.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague was rather sanctimonious as she spoke at length about bullying, which of course is the matter at hand today.

I wonder why the Conservatives voted against the bill introduced by our colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, which would have filled the gaps in the current legislation. It seems that part of his bill is included among the other measures in this bill. Why did the Conservatives refuse to work with us when they had a very fine opportunity to do so in the House? Today, the government is introducing more or less the same thing. Why did they refuse to work with us?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is typical of the fundamental difference between the NDP and the Conservatives. The NDP regularly wants to have national discussions that go on and on, whereas our government is a government of action. We are a government of giving the police the tools they need. We are a government that will see that criminals receive the criminal sentences that should rightfully be coming their way.

Again, we are a government of action, not a government of continuing to talk and talk about issues.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as is the case for the vast majority of my colleagues in the House, the subject of cyberbullying and bullying in general is something I am deeply concerned about. This issue is so important to me that I decided that my one and only bill to be debated and voted on in the House would be about bullying. That is why, almost two years ago, I introduced a national bullying prevention strategy. The Conservatives and the Bloc Québécois voted overwhelmingly against it.

Ten minutes is not a lot of time for me to say everything I want to say about this. Before I begin my speech, I would like to respond to my Conservative colleague who has just finished her speech and answers. The parliamentary secretary talked about how proactive her Conservative government is when it comes to dealing with bullying. That is a lie. It is not true. This is 2014 and we are debating Bill C-13.

In 2011, 15-year-old Jenna Bowers-Bryanton took her own life. She lived in Truro, Nova Scotia. When the media reported the news, Jenna's parents, family and friends spoke about what this young woman had gone through. They said that she had been bullied via social media. She was receiving vicious messages and comments from anonymous sources. In these messages, she was even told that she should kill herself.

According to her parents, Courtney Brown, another Nova Scotian, was bullied via Facebook in 2011. She too committed suicide when she could no longer deal with the situation. These are two cases of young Canadian women who, in 2011, were victims of Internet bullying, which is called cyberbullying. The Conservative government, which was in power at the time, did nothing.

Meanwhile, the opposition introduced two bills. We are proactive in the NDP. I spoke about how my initiative to implement a national bullying prevention strategy was defeated. The bill introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour focused strictly on closing loopholes in Canadian legislation to prevent the distribution of intimate images without consent. The Conservatives voted against this measure twice.

I therefore do not believe the Conservative member when she says that her government is proactive. That is not true. This debate has been very emotional for me. I was talking about this earlier with my parliamentary assistant, Steve Slepchik. We sent some messages back and forth about how sad we felt when preparing my speech, which is still somewhat off the cuff. We researched the number of young people who had committed suicide as a result of bullying since we were elected in 2011. Some took their own lives as a result of cyberbullying. Others were bullied at school. We in the House of Commons know the difference, and we know that bullying in schools falls more under provincial jurisdiction. However, we also know that telecommunications fall under federal jurisdiction, and that is why the federal government must play its role in that regard, a role that goes beyond the measure this government has proposed.

I would also like to remind members that the NDP is in favour of this bill since it is quite similar to a bill that we ourselves proposed. What is more, when it comes to cyberbullying, we agree with the part of this 75-page brick that closes the loophole with regard to the distribution of intimate images without consent. However, cyberbullying has a much larger scope than that.

I have another example, and it always makes me sad when I talk about it. Todd Loik, a youth from North Battleford, Saskatchewan, also took his own life at the age of 15. He was being taunted and teased online, but it was much more than that. He was threatened and bullied on Facebook, until the night he decided to take his own life because he could not take it anymore. Even his mother, who read with great sorrow the Facebook messages to her son, called them disgusting.

She even said that he received these insults on his cell phone and home computer.

The cyberbullying of young people in Canada and around the world is more than just the distribution of intimate photos without consent. Passing Bill C-13 and giving it royal assent will not give the Conservatives—who boast about enforcing law and order, but actually do very little about it—bragging rights about having done something to set limits on and curtail cyberbullying in Canada. The distribution of intimate photos without consent is just one aspect of cyberbullying.

Youth suicide is covered extensively by the media, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. Parliamentarians in every Canadian province and territory have admitted that they were victims of bullying. I am one of them. We have to do something. We must adopt a national bullying prevention strategy that will give parents more tools.

In Canada, parents who know that their child is a victim of bullying or cyberbullying do not have the tools to deal with it. The government can use the means at its disposal to inform the Canadian public and to provide parents with documentation that will help them do their job and defend and equip their children.

The Conservatives' approach would simply have us criminalize cyberbullying instead of preventing it. Unfortunately, bullying leaves scars. When a young person is the victim of bullying over the course of months or years, the harm has been done, even if the bully is punished. However, the victim is sometimes no longer even alive when the bully is punished. Is that fair? I do not think so. The families and loved ones of bullying victims, even those who do not resort to suicide, are left with scars.

I would not want any young person in Canada to be the victim of bullying, but bullying most often involves young people. It could be a matter of carelessness or cruelty on the part of these darling angels who are not aware of how much their actions can hurt others. Some young people imitate their parents or loved ones. When they see their parents saying negative things about a colleague or being mean-spirited, the children absorb this information and emulate this kind of behaviour at school, on the bus or on the Internet.

I wish we could pass legislation requiring Canadians, teens and children to show love for one another, so that we can put an end to bullying and cyberbullying, but I know that is unrealistic.

However, it is not too late to take action, and the government must not rest on its laurels. After it passes Bill C-13, it must move forward and impose further controls on cyberbullying. We need to work on prevention.

For example, the committee should look at meaningful measures to ensure that a teen who is bullied via text message, Facebook, Twitter or email can access a government-run website to complain. The teen could take a screenshot and indicate where the bullying took place, so that the police can investigate it. By working with Internet service providers, we could track down the bully and send an email warning to the owner of the IP address, which is likely the parents. That way, the parents could do their job and talk to their child about what they have done.

Those are some concrete ways to combat cyberbullying that the NDP would like to work on.

I thank my colleagues for taking all of this into consideration.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to ask a question of my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, who gave a heartfelt speech. I know he has worked very hard on this issue. He has travelled across Canada to speak with young people and try to raise as much awareness as possible regarding this phenomenon and the repercussions it can have. I am convinced that he would have visited every school in Canada if he could have done so. However, that is unfortunately not possible, which brings me to my question.

What more can we do, besides what the government is proposing? As we have heard, the government is suggesting one very specific measure, one that had already been proposed earlier in this Parliament.

What more can we do besides tackling the very serious problem of sharing photos without the person's consent? What other measures can we take to ensure that this problem is taken into account and resolved once and for all?

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Sherbrooke for the question.

The government needs to listen to the opposition members, even if it does not agree with them, and it needs to listen to the Senate. I feel this is an odd thing for me to say. However, about two years ago, the Senate published a report on cyberbullying. As we know, the Senate has a Conservative majority. The report's first recommendation was to create a national bullying prevention strategy.

The report was published shortly after the government rejected my motion. When I read that report, I realized that even the Conservative senators wanted a national bullying prevention strategy, just as I had proposed to the Conservative members in the House. It really saddens me that the government voted against it for partisan reasons. Perhaps it needs to reread the Senate's report. It is a good report.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague on his speech. He spoke with great emotion. His speech was very interesting and quite relevant to the current debate.

When we talk about Canada, we need to talk about the youth who are Canada's future. We need to look after them. This bill is clearly a first step. I also think it is important to support the communities that are doing the everyday work on the ground.

In Drummondville, there are a number of local organizations and committees that are looking at the issue. We have a committee on violence and a subcommittee that works on bullying prevention. They bring together all of Drummond's social organizations.

I believe that my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord proposed a national cyberbullying prevention strategy. It was a great way to tackle the issue because it is not enough to address instances of cyberbullying; we have to work to prevent it, too.

I would like the hon. member to talk about the important role that the federal government could play in preventing bullying through a national bullying prevention strategy.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for allowing me to respond to my colleague.

To begin, I would like to commend the initiative in his riding. He mentioned that there are groups in his riding that help young people deal with bullying. That is wonderful. That is why the fourth pillar of my national bullying prevention strategy called on the government to provide more financial and other types of support to front-line organizations that are already doing good work across Canada. We do not need to reinvent the wheel.

To prove just how important this is, and I will end with this, here is a quote from a 2012 Kids Help Phone report:

...cyberbullying can be very damaging to young people’s mental health and well-being. According to recent research, cyberbullying has a range of negative social, emotional, and educational outcomes on victims, from anxiety, to poor concentration and lowered school performance, to hopelessness or helplessness, to depression and suicidality.

Clearly, the government needs to do something, something more than just Bill C-13.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is always an honour to speak in the House as a representative of Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, particularly today as we speak in support of Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act. As we have heard today from all speakers, it addresses the serious criminal behaviour associated with cyberbullying.

This is an issue that affects Canadians across the country, whether in small communities, like mine, or in large cities, in remote areas, or in urban areas. It is an issue of grave concern to all of us. For Barb and me, who are parents and grandparents, as aunts and uncles, as parliamentarians and as Canadians, we take this for what the act talks about.

We have all heard of the tragic results of cyberbullying. My colleagues who spoke mentioned a number of individuals who have been captured and caught in the effects of cyberbullying. There are stories of children so distraught that they take their own lives because they can no longer handle the barrage of taunts, threats, and humiliation that is absolutely heartbreaking to them and everyone around them.

We have the opportunity to take decisive action now and try to prevent, as much as we can, future tragedies. The legislation before us is one that would move us ahead with reforms to our laws to deter the effects and types of destructive behaviour. Certainly, having stronger penalties in place would act as a strong deterrent to those who would post intimate pictures of someone online without their consent. It is also critical, and we have heard a lot about that today, that every possible step be taken to prevent bullying in all its forms.

In my time today, I want to talk about our government, and specifically Public Safety Canada, which is prepared to establish a number of prevention, education, and awareness activities. As the lead federal department on the issue of cyberbullying, Public Safety Canada is tackling this form of intimidation. This includes supporting programs that work to change behaviours among young people to prevent bullying of all types, whether online or in person.

For example, our government is currently supporting the development of a number of school-based projects to prevent bullying as part of the $10 million that was committed in 2012 toward new crime prevention projects to address this and other priority issues such as preventing violence among at-risk youth and offending among urban aboriginal youth. Education and awareness are also critical to addressing this harmful and extreme behaviour. We are working on a number of initiatives to encourage youth. We need youth themselves to speak up and to let adults know what is happening.

Our government supports the Canadian Centre for Child Protection, which operates Cybertip.ca, an initiative that started in 2002, and NeedHelpNow.ca. These are websites that Canadians can use to report online sexual exploitation of children and to seek help for exploitation resulting from the sharing of sexual images.

In addition, the RCMP Centre for Youth Crime Prevention offers resources such as fact sheets, lesson plans, and interactive learning tools to youth, parents, police officers, and educators on issues such as bullying and cyberbullying. We also talk about cyberbullying during Cyber Security Awareness Month, which takes place each October.

The focus of Public Safety Canada’s Get Cyber Safe campaign is to educate Canadians of all ages on the simple steps they can take to protect themselves from people who want to do harm to them online, or for things like identity theft, fraud, and computer viruses.

Part of helping our people stay safe online includes making them aware of the dangers of cyberbullying and what they can do to stop it. As part of our efforts in this regard, Public Safety Canada launched a national public awareness safety campaign called “Stop Hating Online”, in January 2014. It does a number of things. It provides information to youth and their parents about the potential serious legal consequences around cyberbullying and the distribution of intimate images without consent.

It also informs Canadian adults that they have a role to play in the prevention and reporting of cyberbullying and raises awareness among young Canadians regarding the types of behaviours that constitute cyberbullying and the impacts of that on people. We want to help them understand that they can be more than a bystander, and give them information on how and when they can stand up to cyberbullying.

We want to make sure that we go beyond that. In order to reach as many people as possible, we want to make sure that we cover both adults and youth. Our government wants to work closely with the private sector and other government partners to deliver the campaign using a wide variety of media, awareness activities, but with a particular focus on using social media to spread the word and encourage Canadians.

I hope that members of the House were able to see some of the ads played on national TV networks between January and March. The idea was aimed at parents and youth, the latter being a little more edgy and dynamic to capture the attention of our tech-savvy youth. Both ads illustrated how easy it is for kids to share intimate images of each other through mobile phones and social media, often without much thought. Both ads end with a clear and serious message: that sharing intimate messages and images without consent is not only wrong, it is also illegal—something we are working toward with the legislation before us.

Because the younger generation is not necessarily watching the evening news, the same ads were played online and at movie theatres. The ads drove people to a comprehensive website called “Stop Hating Online”, which provides concrete tools and tips for youth, parents, educators, and all those concerned about cyberbullying. The campaign uses social media like YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter to reach out to youth.

This is where we are seeing a significant engagement and positive feedback from youth and parents who are embracing this campaign and telling us clearly that they are not going to accept this destructive behaviour for themselves, their families, or their friends.

In fact, Facebook Canada reported that interest and engagement is much higher than average for the Stop Hating Online initiative. It has also had over one million views of the youth-oriented ad on YouTube since its launch. Facebook accounts for more than 60,000 times its usual hits. We are saying that when we reach out across all media and all types of contacts, it is starting to hit home. As we watch television news and listen to reports of those who have been caught in this, they need to understand the severity of it.

For obvious reasons, as a proud parent and grandparent, I would ask members of the House to support Bill C-13.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to ask my Conservative colleague a question about Bill C-13.

I want to ask her a very specific question about why the Conservatives decided to include many things that are not necessarily related to cyberbullying. This bill on cyberbullying has been given a fine title. We are pleased that this bill was introduced and we are going to support it at second reading.

However, I want to know why the Conservatives incorporated things that have nothing to do with cyberbullying, such as the two-year sentence for stealing cable. Can my colleague tell me what exactly this has to do with cyberbullying? Why did the Conservatives decide, as they do in many cases, to include many other measures that are not necessarily related to the original purpose of the bill?

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, in our justice bills, and again in this one here, there has to be a significant deterrent for those people who commit cyberbullying, or bullying of any kind, quite honestly. We tend to think of cyberbullying, but it is also the person-on-person bullying, and we have heard examples of that in here not only today but from time to time. We believe on this side that there also have to be significant consequences for those who commit those acts as they have serious consequences for those who are being bullied.

Also, as part of that, I likely have spent more time talking about prevention and assistance in terms of education as I did about some of the penalties, but it has to work hand in hand. We need to have consequences and penalties, and we also need to make sure that we spend our time and resources in making prevention as big an issue as we can.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to continue on the same line of questioning.

Listening to the member speak on the issue of cyberbullying, I was pleased with many of his comments. However, it seems to me that while the government wants to talk a great deal about cyberbullying, if we take a look at the legislation itself, we see that it deals with more issues than just cyberbullying. For example, it was cited in terms of cable theft.

If the government truly wanted to fixate on the issue of cyberbullying and allow for the debate and focus of public attention on that issue, then why would it not just have the bill deal specifically with cyberbullying?

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from across the way who, as we know, is very active on a daily basis in terms of debate, and I think that is great. He raises a number of issues, such as this one.

When we talk about cyberbullying and the Internet, if fraud is taking place, such as identity theft, or if one's correspondence with people is used by someone in an immoral or illegal way, that needs to be part of what we talk about in cyberbullying and needs to be part of what we talk about in Bill C-13.

I am pleased that the member asked that question because we want to make sure that we cover the bases as widely as we can. When the bill goes to committee, we will have another opportunity for input by witnesses. That discussion about weaknesses or concerns can be brought up and looked at in committee also.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to rise today and talk to what I believe is a very important issue. The issue of cyberbullying is very real, it is tangible, and it happens every day. It affects the lives of thousands of Canadians throughout our great land. There is a responsibility for government to do its best to ensure that we have the tools that are necessary to make a difference. That is really what we in the Liberal Party want. We would like to see a comprehensive approach to dealing with the issue of cyberbullying. That is what is really important here.

The legislation is one part of it. The additional resources, ideas, budgets, and throne speeches are another part of it, where we see a government that wants to focus its attention on dealing with an issue that many Canadians are quite concerned about. They want the government to demonstrate leadership on such an important issue.

I listened to the member, and I posed a question specifically; I appreciated the frankness in the answer that he provided. However, the point is that we have before us a piece of legislation that deals with a number of changes. Some of those changes I do not think would do any service by being incorporated into the important issue of cyberbullying. We remember the old Bill C-30, which had some fairly significant implications regarding lawful access. The government gave assurances on that bill and it died on the order paper.

Why incorporate some of the things they have into this very important issue? It made reference to the cable industry and cable theft. I suspect that if we canvass the House we would find that there is a great deal of interest in the issue of cyberbullying today. It is nothing new. It has been there for many years. We can talk about the cyber.ca website, and I would recommend that people check it. People can draw fantastic information from it. We need to get more people educated about the process of bullying that takes place.

In 2005, legislation under former Prime Minister Paul Martin was proposed. We have had other members bring it forward. In particular I look to my colleague from Vancouver, the wonderful Liberal Party health critic, who has brought forward the issue of cyberbullying. This issue has been before us for a number of years, and it keeps growing in its seriousness and the importance for the House to take more action in dealing with it.

Today, we have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and a litany of other programs and applications through the Internet that are used as mechanisms to inflict hurt upon someone else. One cannot underestimate the tragedies that have been caused by the type of cyberbullying or harassment that is taking place every day.

When we look at this legislation in principle, I believe all members, but assuredly members of the Liberal caucus, are quite supportive of taking action that would assist us in dealing with that very important issue of cyberbullying.

However, Liberals want to go further than that. We want to challenge the government to look at refocusing some of its priorities. The member made reference to advertising commercials. There is a great deal of benefit in using advertising as a wonderful tool to educate our population, because not everyone listens to the 6 o'clock or 10 o'clock news. The member is right that purchasing advertising spots in sports and children's programming would be of great value.

Think of the hundreds of millions of dollars the government spends on advertising its budget, its economic program, or whatever we want to call it. It spends hundreds of millions of dollars on something of no real great value. It is a bunch of spin coming from the government on what it is doing. Why not use some of the hundreds of millions of dollars on good, solid programs that are going to make a difference, such as developing and paying for advertising in our multimedia world today to educate individuals about cyberspace? That is what we should be doing. We challenge the government of the day to be a bit more creative on that front.

We need to work with stakeholders. How can we develop a strategy to educate and encourage people to get a better understanding of such an important issue if we are not prepared to work with the different stakeholders in society? One example would be schools. In Manitoba, there is in excess of 200,000 students attending public school. What is being done to encourage some sort of programming that educates our young people? I do not want to have to rely on Facebook and independent thinking that takes place in a locked room where all sorts of mischievous behaviour could be occurring in terms of educating our young people. It has to be far broader than that. Schools, school divisions, and departments of education all need to play a role.

What about the private sector? We talk about harassment that takes place in the cyberworld. Vindictive attitudes and how quickly individuals attack potential victims by posting pictures or images or making statements on the Internet that have strong, profound negative impacts on people's lives are incredible. Only one level of government, the national government and the Prime Minister, has to realize just how important it is that it is set as a priority issue. Every day that goes by that the Conservative government chooses not to be more aggressively proactive on this issue, we are destroying lives because we allow it to continue to the degree at which it is moving forward today, at a very rapid pace.

Liberals welcome the idea of action, support action to deal with anti-bullying, and want more of a comprehensive, all-inclusive strategy that is going to change more than the criminal law. It is time that the Government of Canada starts working with stakeholders. We could make a much larger difference if the government became interested in doing that.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The time for government orders has expired. The five minutes of questions and comments for the hon. member for Winnipeg North will take place when this matter returns before the House, possibly following question period.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate in the second reading debate on the protecting Canadians from online crime act. This is an important piece of legislation for many people in my constituency. I am glad that the government is following through on its commitment in the Speech from the Throne to bring this legislation forward in a timely manner.

The bill we are discussing today is a central part of the government's contribution to addressing the issue of cyberbullying, which unfortunately, with the widespread use of the Internet and social media, is becoming more prevalent in today's modern age. This bill is another key element of the government's continued agenda to stand up for victims and punish criminals who wish to prey on innocent, law-abiding citizens. As we are all aware, Canadians have fully embraced the Internet and other mobile communications technologies, such as smart phones and social media, for communicating with family and friends, seeking information, making new social connections, and creating blogs and websites.

As all members can attest to, the Internet is a large part of being an MP. We use the Internet to stay connected with our constituents, to post relevant speeches and announcements, and even to stay in contact with our families back home.

However, while most people use the Internet in a constructive manner, there have been an increasing number of tragedies where people are using the Internet or other electronic media to engage in malicious and mischievous conduct that leads to serious consequences for the victim.

With this legislation, our government was required to examine the nature of cyberbullying as it manifests itself in today's digital age. Although the issue of bullying itself is an age-old problem, technology has irrevocably changed the nature and scope of bullying. For example, bullying conducted over the Internet is faster, easier, and nastier than ever before. It also has the potential to remain in cyberspace permanently and to be done anonymously. Furthermore, perpetrators may be more likely to engage in bullying behaviour online because they cannot see or hear the effects of their actions, and because it is possible to be anonymous online. This leads me to the severity and potentially tragic nature of cyberbullying.

When we think about the bullying of the past, where some kid might have stolen our lunch money or pushed us into a puddle, we rarely associate further ramifications to these spiteful yet seemingly minor actions. However, over the past few years cyberbullying is alleged to have played a part in the decision of some young people to take their own lives. The recent stories which we are all familiar with are truly heartbreaking. I am sure I speak for all Canadians when I express our deepest condolences for the families of the victims of these tragic events. However, these incidents also prompt us, as lawmakers, to ask what the federal government can do to prevent similar tragedies.

This was the motivation behind the federal-provincial-territorial working group on cybercrime. In July, the Department of Justice, on behalf of all federal-provincial-territorial partners, publicly released its report on cyberbullying and the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. The working group studied and considered whether or not cyberbullying was adequately addressed by the Criminal Code and whether or not there were any gaps that needed to be filled. This working group made nine unanimous recommendations with respect to the criminal law response to cyberbullying.

The first recommendation in the report calls for a multipronged and multi-sectoral approach to the issue of cyberbullying and calls for all levels of government to continue to build on their initiatives to address cyberbullying in a comprehensive manner. This recommendation recognizes that cyberbullying cannot be adequately addressed by one initiative by one level of government. In fact, most experts agree that bullying and cyberbullying are most effectively addressed through a multipronged approach. Criminal law reform only represents one small portion of a much larger situation.

Getting back to the bill that is before us today, I am pleased to note that all of the proposals contained in the bill were recommended by the federal-provincial-territorial working group and are supported by provincial and territorial attorneys general.

The bill has two main goals: to create a new Criminal Code offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images and to modernize the investigative powers of the Criminal Code to enable the police to effectively and efficiently investigate cyberbullying and other crimes committed via the Internet or that involve electronic evidence.

I would like to focus the remainder of my remarks on the proposed new offence. The proposed offence would fill a gap related to a form of serious cyberbullying behaviour with respect to the sharing or distribution of nude or sexual images which are later used without the consent of the person depicted. It is important to emphasize that the goal of this offence is not to criminalize the making of these images or even the consensual sharing of these images, as between intimate partners or friends. Rather, this offence would focus on the behaviour that is more often becoming associated with these images, the distribution of them without the consent of the person depicted.

Specifically, this new offence would prohibit all forms of distribution of these types of images without the consent of the person depicted. Quite often the perpetrator of this behaviour is the ex-partner or ex-spouse of the person depicted in the images who is seeking revenge or looking to humiliate or harass them.

To secure a conviction for this offence, a prosecutor would be required to prove that the accused knowingly distributed the images and that the accused distributed the images either knowing the person depicted did not consent to this distribution or being reckless as to whether or not the person consented.

A key element of the proposed offence is the nature of the image itself. The bill proposes a three-part definition of intimate image to guide the court in determining whether or not a particular image is one that could be subject to the proposed offence. An intimate image is one in which the person depicted was nude or exposing his or her sexual organs, or anal region, or engaged in explicit sexual activity. The Criminal Code uses a similar definition in the voyeurism section 162 and child pornography section 163 offences. However, the content of the image on its own would not be enough to qualify the image as an intimate image. The court would also need to be satisfied that the image was one that was taken in circumstances that gave rise to a reasonable expectation of privacy and that the person depicted in that image still retains a reasonable expectation of privacy in the image.

These two elements are key to ensuring that the proposed offence is not cast too broadly and does not capture images in which there could be no reasonable privacy interest. For example, if a person took sexual images of themselves in the privacy of their own home for their own personal use, the image would likely be found to be an intimate image. However, if that same person then posted those images on a public website it is less likely that the court would find that the individual retains a reasonable expectation of privacy, despite the fact that the initial recording of the image was privately done.

The proposed offence would be supported by several complementary amendments in the Criminal Code to provide protection to victims of this particularly contemptible form of cyberbullying. These complementary amendments would permit the court to order the removal of intimate images from the Internet and other digital networks as well as make an order for restitution to cover some of the expenses incurred in having the images removed.

Further, the court would be empowered to order the forfeiture of tools or property used in the commission of the offence, such as a smart phone or computer, as well as a prohibition order to restrict the use of a computer or the Internet by a convicted offender. This prohibition order would be especially useful in cases of repeat offenders.

The legislation also proposes to permit the court to issue a peace bond against a person who has intimate images in their possession where there are reasonable grounds to fear that a new offence would be committed by that person.

The proposed new offence and complementary amendments fill an existing gap in the criminal law and aim to provide broad protection to victims of this behaviour.

I understand that this legislation will not address all of the concerns that stem from cyberbullying, however, I believe this a great leap in the right direction and I strongly urge all members to support this piece of legislation.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise today to speak to Bill C-13, an act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, the protecting Canadians from online crime act.

It will come as no surprise that I will be supporting the bill at second reading. There are elements in the bill that I think we have waited too long to implement. At the same time, we have to be very conscious that when we deal with legislation, it needs to be concise but it also needs clarity.

I wonder what kind of message we send to Canadians when the title of a bill has so many components that it leaves many people wondering what the bill is really about. The fact that there are so many subheadings to the bill shows that it is not just looking at cyberbullying and consequences to update our legislation. This is another example of legislation where the government has cobbled together various pieces of its agenda and thrown in something on which I would say we have unanimous agreement.

We did request unanimous consent that the bill be divided to allow similar provisions from our colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, who, by the way, has done amazing work on this file, that is Bill C-540, and the aspect that relates to the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. We asked that it be adopted rapidly in committee, since it has all-party support.

This is where frustration sometimes sets in this House. This is something we could have done, all-party, everybody in agreement, with that particular component of this legislation. We are all in agreement. We could have separated it and passed it; I believe that component has been debated many times. Then we could have spent our time debating the rest of the bill.

There are some problems with the rest of the bill, but that part of the bill that encompasses Bill C-540, the non-consensual distribution of intimate images, could have been adopted unanimously and it could have gone on to the next stage.

I urge my colleagues across the way to consider doing that. They have a majority and could make it happen. They would certainly get consent from our side to separate it that way. We could get something moving in a very timely manner.

The world has changed since I went to school. The kinds of bullying and activities in school are very different now. Bullying is bullying. However, we have different types of bullying. There was a time that if an individual were bullied by somebody at their school, they had to write them a letter. That would happen very rarely because they did not want to get caught, or they would bully the individual to their face. With cyberbullying now, people can bully an individual 24/7 using social media.

I am often amazed at how many of our youth have cell phones. They are not just phones; all of the social media and the Internet are on there. Our youth are very actively engaged. They carry their phones with them, which brings the bullying right into their homes, 24/7.

By the way, I am not saying that we should ban all cell phones for young people. I can see our young people in the House looking at me, wondering if that is where I am going. Not at all. However, I am saying that because technology has changed how our young people interact with each other, so must our legal system. However, we have seen the shortfalls of our legal system. It was not equipped to deal with some very tragic circumstances. Because of that, we have to update our Criminal Code and law enforcement.

However, more than anything, I think we also have a responsibility to educate. Media literacy is very important. We taught children, long before we had all this technology, how to communicate in a positive way and not to hurt each other's feelings. In a similar way, I think our schools, as well as parents at home, have to work with our young people to teach them ways to manage this new world. Even though we may not live in that world, we have to help to construct a safety net for our students and young people, which is what this legislation is all about.

Months ago, we could quite easily have separated and dealt with cyberbullying in the bill proposed by my colleague, the incredibly hard-working member of Parliament for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. Instead, here we have a very complex bill, which will now take time. Some of my colleagues will say that it does not have to take time if we agree to everything that is in the new bill. However, I cannot. There are problems with many parts of the bill before us, and I know we will be bringing amendments when it gets to committee stage.

I always want to use the word “student”. Being a teacher all of my life, that is how I think. However, for our young people, we have to do the responsible thing and try to take the politics out of dealing with this safety issue. This is an issue that has been sensitized because of a number of recent tragedies. I have talked to young people who have told me how terrible it is and how alone they feel when they have been bullied through cyberspace.

I would not say that words do not hurt because they do hurt. I can remember being at school when people got yelled at, and I could see the look of hurt on their faces. Sometimes they were beaten up because children can get into fights. However, what we are seeing with cyberbullying right now is that it is 24/7, and there is no escape.

We know the young people who are vulnerable. We know that it is people from, let us say the gay and lesbian community, the students who are not out. Even the students who are out can also become a target, through the use of anonymity and fake IDs that people can create in this world.

However, to quote the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Ontario on Bill C-13, “the federal government is using this pressing social issue as an opportunity to resurrect much of its former surveillance legislation, Bill C-30”.

We remember when a certain minister was told what was thought of that bill. They feel that this proposed legislation is a resurrection of that bill and the government is trying to sugar-coat it by throwing in a much-needed bill to protect our children.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if we look across the aisle during this debate, we are all feeling the importance of making sure that we address this issue.

As a father, it is important that when my kids come home from school we make sure we watch to see what they are doing on the Internet. There is some concern there, and all parents need to be concerned.

I also know that in my great riding of Sudbury, the police, through Sergeant Tim Burtt and the cyber unit, have been going to schools talking about the importance and impact of cyberbullying. It is important for us to recognize the importance of this and to get on this.

It is concerning, when we see other things have been added to this. It is something that we could have done very quickly. I would like to hear my hon. colleague's comments on that.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate my colleague for the amazing work he has done regarding the everyday pressures on Canadian families as they struggle to make ends meet. Whether it is rising gas prices or credit card fees, he knows how to handle that file and does a great job.

Members do not have to take my word or one group's word for the fact that the government has cobbled together legislation in a way that was totally unnecessary. The essential piece of it could have been passed just like that, but it was not.

Let me quote David Fraser, a Halifax-based lawyer, who said something about this piece of legislation which I think is cynical and disappointing. He stated:

There's a whole bunch of irrelevant or other stuff in here that's going to distract from the legitimate discussion on how to fine-tune this to get this absolutely right.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have heard discussion, a few times, about splitting the bill. I am the chair of the justice committee, and it has done a very good job, in my view, of listening to witnesses, and suggestions and amendments by the opposition, on a number of items. There were amendments accepted from the opposition. A Liberal member sat in the last time the committee did a review and accepted amendments from the other side and was in a bit of shock that this was the kind of co-operation that happens at committee.

What I do not understand is why opposition members would want to split the bill up. Do you not have confidence in the committee system and your own members being able to bring forward amendments at the time they are discussed and debated at committee? Based on those who have requested to appear at committee, I think there is going to be a fairly long and extensive review of this bill.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

I would remind all hon. members to direct their comments to the Chair. I have confidence in the committee process.

The hon. member for Newton—North Delta can answer the question.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have absolutely no confidence in the government doing anything right when it comes to dealing with young people's safety.

Michael Geist, a Canadian research chair in Internet and e-commerce law at the University of Ottawa, compared a number of provisions included in Bill C-13 to the controversial Internet snooping legislation. We know how divisive that was. Bill C-30 was killed by the former justice minister in the face of widespread criticism.

You had this mountain of opposition and you withdrew the bill. Now you bring it forward, and in it you bury something that is so important. It is all about protecting our young people from cyberbullying. That is playing politics.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Before we continue, I would just remind this hon. member, as well as the previous member, to direct their comments to the Chair rather than directly to their colleagues.

It is also my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Ahuntsic, Citizenship and Immigration; the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, Rail Transportation; and the hon. member for Edmonton—Strathcona, Employment and Social Development.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak in support of Bill C-13.

This bill proposes amendments to the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act, the Competition Act, and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act in order to bring them up to date with 21st century technologies.

These updates to the law would respond to new challenges posed by modern technology in the context of bullying, often referred to as cyberbullying, in a number of ways, including by creating a new offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

Bill C-13 would also revise investigative powers to make sure they respond to modern technologies so that police have the tools they need to investigate offences arising in the context of current communication technology, including offences that can occur in the context of cyberbullying behaviours, such as the proposed new offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

I would like to take this opportunity to expand on some particularly important and innovative aspects of the Criminal Code amendments, and in particular the new concept of transmission data. I think the proposals in Bill C-13 for changes in this area are going to have a really positive impact on how investigations are conducted here in Canada.

First I would like to tell the House about the new transmission data warrant.

For the past 20 years, the police have been able to ask a justice for a warrant that would permit the police to find out phone numbers dialed by a suspect or by someone phoning that suspect. Such warrants could be issued by the justice when there were reasonable grounds to suspect that this information could assist in the investigation of a crime.

However, these days this sort of information, sometimes referred to as call identifying information, encompasses not just telephone numbers but also the Internet equivalents of telephone numbers and includes some technical data that all kinds of more advanced calling features can generate on a network.

It is unfortunately the reality for police today that investigators face challenges when working with the existing dialed number recorder warrant. It is sadly out of date, as it was not designed for the kinds of things that can be part of call identifying information today. The provision was created in 1993 for traditional telephones.

Another change in the way people communicate that has had significant impact on investigations is the increased use of the Internet since 1993, which means that voice telephony is far from being the only way that people regularly communicate.

An additional impact on investigations comes from the convergence of different communication technologies. Nowadays the lines between traditional telephones and the Internet are certainly blurred.

Many cellphones today can be used to access the Internet if, for example, people want to see something on the Internet or send a message. Phones can also rely on the technology of the Internet to make a traditional call. Millions of subscribers use VoIP, or voice over IP, which enables the phone to make use of the Internet to make a traditional voice telephone call.

The result is that the technology uses IP, or Internet protocol, addresses in addition to telephone numbers. It is a sort of hybrid. This kind of hybridization creates problems for investigators. It was also never envisaged 20 years ago, when communication was done through the traditional phone lines for which the current warrant was designed.

This is important. These changes in communication technology have led to the proposal in Bill C-13 to update the existing dialed number recorder warrant in section 492.2 of the Criminal Code and replace it with a transmission data warrant. The proposal in Bill C-13 to create an updated warrant, called a transmission data warrant, makes sense. This new warrant will reflect the new realities for communication technology and investigative techniques.

The sorts of address data police now need to conduct investigations cannot be obtained using telephone records or standard equipment for older technology such as a dialed number recorder. The updates to the law would ensure that a criminal would not be able to avoid police investigative techniques because he uses modern technology, such as VoIP, to make his calls instead of a traditional telephone.

A new legal concept was needed for this update to the existing number recorder warrant to encompass the greater complexity of call identifying information in the modern telecommunications context. Bill C-13 proposes a way to create this new concept, a new category of information called transmission data, which would apply to Internet routing information as well as traditional telephone numbers.

Transmission data would be specifically restricted to certain parts of what is called the header data, which includes things like the email address and information about the mail servers that transmitted the email, but the concept is carefully designed to explicitly exclude the content of any message so that invasions of privacy are minimized. This means police would not be able to use the transmission data warrant to find out what a person has typed in as the subject field. More importantly, police will not be able to use this type of warrant to find out what was typed into the body of the email.

In addition to updating the dialed number recorder warrant provision by replacing it with a new transmission data warrant, Bill C-13 also proposes a new judicial production order aimed at obtaining transmission data when it is stored. This is a change to the structure of the existing number recorder warrant, which included a production order within the warrant provision. Bill C-13 proposes a separate production order to obtain transmission data located in the same place in the Criminal Code with the other production orders.

This proposal is part of the overall approach of Bill C-13 of creating a slate of specific production orders that provide specific tools for police to use to obtain particular types of information. The bill proposes specific and tailored new production orders for transmission data, for tracking data, and for tracing a communication, along with the existing specific and tailored production order for financial data and the existing general production order, all of which together compose a new scheme of production orders proposed by Bill C-13.

The threshold for the specific and tailored production orders is “reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been or will be committed”, as these orders are narrower in scope and less invasive.

In contrast, the threshold for the broader general production order is “reasonable grounds to believe an offence has been or will be committed” to reflect its greater intrusive potential. These thresholds are consistent with the current approach to thresholds for production orders in the Criminal Code.

This approach is designed to provide tailoring to particular privacy interests through giving police specific tools designed for specific access, which allows a judge to assess each type of request to the appropriate standard.

Given the discussions currently occurring both domestically and internationally around access to metadata, it may be useful at this point to speak briefly to the distinction between metadata and transmission data as proposed in Bill C-13.

“Metadata” is a term that can be used to describe any data about data. It can encompass a fairly broad range of information, including information that would not be part of the definition of transmission data.

“Transmission data”, as set out in Bill C-13, is carefully and more narrowly defined. It is information relating only to the dialing, routing, addressing, or signalling of telecommunications. As I mentioned earlier, it is explicit in the definition of transmission data that it cannot reveal the substance, the meaning, or the purpose of the communication.

It is important to understand the limited, specific, and focused ambit of what is being proposed in Bill C-13 in relation to transmission data, as these limits address some concerns that some people have expressed about broad abilities to access all kinds of information with ease. Bill C-13 proposes a clear framework for particular types of access to data, in particular transmission data, if granted by a judge or justice.

The transmission data warrant and production order will provide police with some of the investigative tools they need to fight crime in a world of changing technology. It has been precisely designed to do so with appropriate privacy safeguards.

I therefore encourage all members to give Bill C-13 their full support.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I think that all of us here in this House would agree that protecting our children is paramount, and it does give one pause, on the one hand, that the provisions in the bill that actually go toward protecting children from cyberbullying were first introduced 10 months ago by my hon. colleague, the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. Leave it to the current government to take 10 months to play politics with what I think all of us can agree is a very serious issue.

Then, on the other side, I spoke with many of the residents in my riding of Davenport in Toronto about the proposed online spying bill, and I did not meet a single person who could support that bill.

We have seen the government throw a lot of additional measures into its bills. Why, in this particular one, if the government wants to protect young people from cyberbullying, does it also have a measure in there to add a two-year sentence for someone who is stealing cable?

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member raises a point in claiming this is an omnibus bill. The opposition seems to see omnibus bills at every turn.

The fact of the matter is that Bill C-13 is not an omnibus crime bill. It combines a proposed new offence of non-consensual distribution of intimate images to address cyberbullying with judicially authorized tools to help police and prosecutors investigate not only the proposed new offence but other existing offences that are committed via the Internet.

I would urge the member, if he is serious about combatting Internet crime and giving the police new tools to protect the most vulnerable people in our society, our children, to support Bill C-13.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his speech on Bill C-13. I would remind my colleague that the New Democratic justice critic, the member for Gatineau, in her opening speech, wanted the bill to get to committee for a complete examination. I would like to quote from that member's speech:

I think the minister wants as many members as possible to support his bill. I therefore hope that he will be open to allowing us to study this aspect carefully. We will have some serious arguments to make in committee about these aspects of the bill.

My point is this. I think this is our third or fourth day of debate and I think there may be one more day of debate on this item. Then we need to get it to committee, because my understanding is that a tremendous number of people want to come to speak to it.

Would the member tell us why it is important for us to get the bill to committee to be studied as soon as possible?

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Burlington raises some very important and compelling points. I have to tell members it is very important that the bill expeditiously make its way through House and get to committee. The bill seeks to address a very serious problem in our society. The first piece of legislation in 1993, as we are trying to address here, does not give the police the right investigative tools to address this problem that we have in our society.

I have to say that our government is not alone in proposing this kind of legislation and in supporting this kind of legislation.

As examples, Carol Todd on Canada AM; Lianna McDonald, of the Canadian Centre for Child Protection; David Butt, counsel to the Kids Internet Safety Alliance; Dalhousie University law professor Wayne MacKay; Allan Hubley, Ottawa city councillor; and Jeff McGuire, Niagara Regional Police Service chief have all said categorically that this is the kind of legislation we need to give police the investigative tools and the kind of legislation that we need to protect our most vulnerable in society, our children.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleagues for their welcome this evening. I am pleased to rise to speak to Bill C-13. This bill is close to my heart, and it deals with a sensitive issue that can also be emotional for some of my colleagues.

I commend the government for introducing this bill to create a national strategy on cyberbullying and cybercrime, which could also be included. The NDP will support any measures that combat cyberbullying, as such measures are in line with our principles on the right to privacy.

Such measures are almost exactly what we need, in response to rapidly developing technologies that are changing the way young people interact with each other every day. I said that the measures were almost perfect because this bill contains one measure that is in line with a measure that we presented in the House. The rest of the bill still has several flaws, which I will talk about in my speech today.

We also regret the fact that it took a number of high-profile cases, such as the ones in Nova Scotia and British Columbia, before our government finally decided to take action to combat cyberbullying and bullying in general. Bullying is not restricted to the Internet. It can happen in person every day, especially at school.

We also regret that the Conservatives refused to support the sensible, direct and simple Bill C-540, introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. It is odd that the content of the government's Bill C-13 is nearly identical to the bill we introduced that was not supported by the Conservatives. One has to wonder whether the Conservatives were playing politics. I will give them the benefit of the doubt. It is up to them to answer that question.

Two years ago, in the 41st Parliament, my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord moved Motion No. 385, which suggested that the government create a national bullying prevention strategy to address the issue of bullying in general—not just cyberbullying—but the motion was not supported by the Conservatives.

The Conservatives, who today are saying that they are the great protectors of our youth and that they want to fix the situation, actually had the opportunity to help us do that in the past. Unfortunately, they did not support us.

It is sad that the government sometimes seems to wait for tragic events to happen before taking action. We have also seen that with other files. We could prevent rather than react to these very tragic situations that often result in loss of life.

Therefore, we need legislation to prohibit the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. We support this part of the bill that will prohibit the non-consensual distribution of intimate images because we had proposed this same measure in 2013, about 10 months ago. The Conservatives did not support this measure then, but it is being reintroduced and we will support it. Had this been the only focus of the bill, we could have supported it right away. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

A number of things have also been included in Bill C-13, such as parts of Bill C-30. Members will recall that, in the first session of the 41st Parliament, if my memory serves me well, the minister of public safety—who is no longer an MP—introduced the now-defunct Bill C-30. This bill raised the ire of Canadians across the country. The minister was eventually forced to back down and withdraw the bill, dubbed the electronic surveillance bill. It was not well received by the public. As I was saying, the Conservatives eventually withdrew the bill.

Unfortunately, a number of the measures in Bill C-30, for which there was no consensus, are found today in Bill C-13. That is one of the reasons why we cannot support this bill in its current form. We will support the bill at second reading in order to try to fix the bill in committee. However, as we told the government, we would have been open to splitting the bill in order to study only the part that members seem to agree on and to pass it quickly. We could then have focused on the somewhat more contentious parts.

Bullying is a very important issue that particularly affects youth aged 12 to 14. According to research, they are the most likely age group to be victims of cyberbullying. This scourge has a serious impact on the mental health and well-being of young victims. Studies are painting a negative and troubling portrait of the impact that cyberbullying is having on our youth. It results in anxiety, poor school performance, hopelessness and helplessness. It can also lead to very tragic situations, such as those we have recently witnessed.

According to the 2012 impact report by Kids Help Phone, cyberbullying victims and offenders are almost twice as likely to attempt suicide, unfortunately. That is a very worrisome finding.

When talking about bullying, we do not always mention the negative impact it can have on the victims who often find themselves in a very difficult situation. They clearly need help right now. That is why we support the first part of the bill, which would give those responsible for enforcing the law another tool to crack down on this scourge. We could bring those who hurt others to justice.

In addition, we realize that this issue affects far too many children in Canada. We also need to work on prevention. Punishing those at fault is not the only answer. We need to be proactive about preventing bullying before it happens. That is a foreign concept for the Conservatives. Often, they present measures that punish those in the wrong. That is fine, but we also need to put plenty of effort into preventing cyberbullying to simply avoid having victims. If we successfully prevent it, we can reduce the number of victims because some crimes will not happen in the first place. It is more important to prevent it before it happens, especially given the negative impact it can have on the victims. That is all the more true today, in 2014. Young people are increasingly exposed to new technology through the Internet. This means that, in some cases, they are now being bullied not just when they are in the schoolyard but also 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I am ready to answer questions.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I agree that prevention is an issue we need to continue to look at in all aspects of our justice legislation. It is easier to prevent something from happening than waiting until it happens. I have no qualms with that approach.

I do not understand why the New Democrats want to split the bill. They are okay with making cyberbullying a criminal offence. It seems fair to them and something they can support. However, they do not seem to want to support the aspects to enforce a criminal offence. We cannot have a criminal offence and attack the issue that makes it an offence, that allows that criminal activity to occur.

I do not understand why the New Democrats want to split up that part. Do they just want cyberbullying to be an offence on paper with no real effect?

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to respond to my colleague. As I explained, we clearly would have liked to have been able to quickly pass the first part of the bill.

Once this becomes an offence under the Criminal Code, the police and other law enforcement officials will be able to crack down on offenders and make sure that anyone who violates the Criminal Code is brought to justice.

As I was saying, we cannot accept the bill at this time because the rest of it contains far too many other measures.

We will support the bill at second reading. I would like to remind my colleague of that because he does not seem to have understood. We will support the bill at second reading so that work can be done in committee to try to improve the parts that are inadequate.

We would have preferred to quickly pass the part of the bill on which there was consensus, but sadly the Conservatives did not want to do that. That is unfortunate for those who are currently being bullied and who will continue to be bullied until this bill is passed.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Sherbrooke for his eloquent speech.

I would like to come back to something he mentioned in the answer he just gave to the member opposite. The member opposite is criticizing the NDP for not wanting to pass certain aspects of the bill we are discussing today, which have been controversial since Bill C-30 was introduced. My colleague already addressed this issue in his speech.

The Conservatives' attitude toward today's debate is the same attitude they adopt every time we try to make amendments to a bill.

My colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord proposed a national bullying prevention strategy that was defeated by the Conservatives, who wanted nothing to do with it. What is more, my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour introduced Bill C-540, which received broad support. However, the Conservatives decided not to do anything about it and to instead develop a much more complicated bill to try to pass measures that Canadians do not agree with.

I would like my colleague to elaborate on how the NDP's approach is a much better way of finding a real solution than the Conservatives' divisive approach. I would like him to explain a bit more about the advantages of working together in the House, rather than trying to divide people, as we unfortunately see with all of the bills that the Conservatives introduce.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for her excellent question.

Indeed, the Conservatives tend to use more partisan tactics to try to achieve their ends. I do not wish to impugn their motives when it comes to this bill; perhaps they are in a better position to answer this question themselves.

All too often we have seen the Conservatives use sensitive, topical issues that evoke a reaction when drafting their legislation. Then they sometimes send emails to their supporters just a few minutes later to try to raise money. All too often we have seen the Conservatives use sensitive, important issues to play politics. I do not wish to attribute them such intentions in the case of this bill. I think they are acting in good faith when it comes to bullying.

However, this is not a common sense approach for legislators. They should be doing things better than that.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am privileged today to stand here speaking to Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act. The legislation would prohibit the non-consensual distribution of intimate images. It would empower a court to order the removal of intimate images from the Internet, and it would permit the court to forfeit a computer, cellphone, or other device used in an offence outlined in this legislation.

Amendments to the Criminal Code would include creating a new offence to prohibit the non-consensual distribution of intimate images, with a maximum sentence of five years' incarceration or six months' imprisonment on summary conviction. It would also direct the sentencing judge to consider upon conviction whether that person should be restricted from use of the Internet for a specified period of time.

It would also authorize the judge to order the removal of an intimate image from websites if the person depicted did not consent to the image being posted. It would allow the judge to order restitution, following conviction, to the victim. It would empower the court to seize and order the forfeiture of property related to the offence, such as computers and mobile devices.

Furthermore, a justice could issue a peace bond where, on reasonable grounds, he or she believed that an individual would commit a new offence. Last, and quite importantly, a person could also ensure that the spouse of an accused person was eligible to testify against the accused in court.

As a former police officer, I am a little biased on this legislation, because I believe that it goes as far as it needs to go. I will explain to my colleagues why I believe it does.

A lot of the existing powers that assist police in investigations have not been modernized for some time. In fact, it is long overdue. For the most part, police are working with 1980s legislation in 2014. It is a bit of an advantage to the bad guy, as the police are always playing catch-up. As we have heard previously from other speakers, they want to hear why the police cannot react more quickly. The reality is that the laws are not there for them to act more quickly.

This legislation would provide for the preservation of volatile computer data. Found under proposed section 487.012, a police officer could make a demand, in form 5.001, requiring a person to preserve computer data in his or her possession. Unless the demand was revoked earlier, it would expire 21 days after it was made. This is probably the most valuable tool for police in this electronic age. It would allow the police the time needed to obtain a warrant to seize evidence. In this electronic age, data can be destroyed or quickly moved. This in itself would allow police to act in a more proactive manner.

I would like to speak to this a little more. The fact of the matter is that with computer data, when police identify a suspect, they do not have the ability to go to that person and say that they need to hold on to the information and cannot delete it, move it, or do anything with it. They would be able to do that through form 5.001. They have not been able to do that to this point in time. It would be a huge opportunity for the police to actively investigate something more proactively.

It would require judicial authority to acquire preserved computer data. As mentioned above, the police would be given the authority to preserve the evidence, but they would still have to obtain a warrant to seize the evidence. That has always been the case.

There is a misconception sometimes that police can just go and grab something and do not need a warrant. The fact of the matter is that there has always been a judicial requirement to seize evidence. Otherwise, once it gets to court, it is thrown out. This bill would give the police an added 21 days to preserve evidence and to be able to obtain a warrant.

The bill would modernize the Criminal Code to recognize all forms of communication. Until recently, the Criminal Code commonly identified communication as either oral or written. We have come a long way in the last 20 years. The Criminal Code identifies what can be received electronically by the police through oral or written means. As I said, we have come a long way, especially with the advent of Facebook, the Internet, Twitter, and Instagram. A lot of these things have really changed the way the police have had to do business.

Most communications today are made by electronic means. Today, to write a letter and put it in a post office box is foreign to most people. It just does not happen. Most of us in this place right now are looking at an electronic device. We are not looking at a piece of paper. We pay our bills online, and we communicate using mobile devices.

This legislation would give police better tools to better track and trace telecommunications. We live in a world where electronic messages and photographs can be distributed instantly anywhere around the world. Giving police the tools to react quickly is not only needed but well overdue.

I have heard from the other side that we should split the bill. Members like one part but not the other. The fact of the matter is that we cannot have one part without the other. It is not possible. We have to be able to give the police the authority and the ability to track electronic data, as is known today, that was not there 20 years ago.

Finally, this legislation would streamline the process for obtaining multiple warrants and orders relating to the execution of wiretap authorization. I was the author of two Part IV affidavits in my time as a police officer. I can tell the House that it is a long and arduous process that requires multiple layers of investigation, each of which must be verified and then reviewed and approved by a Supreme Court judge. To get to this level of investigation, all other forms of investigation must have been exhausted. This form of investigation is not taken lightly by any level of police or judicial department.

My good friend from York Centre in his speech mentioned DNRs, or dial number recorders. It brings me back to a few years ago, when we used those prior to getting to a full wiretap. Just to get a dial number recorder opportunity to place on a phone line goes through a huge amount of paperwork and justification for a Supreme Court justice.

With so many forms of electronic devices available to the public, police must have multiple tools available to them, including wiretap evidence, but I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, and every Canadian, that it is used as a last resort.

It is far too easy in this day and age to do hurtful, irresponsible, and illegal activities that were not possible not so many years ago. With Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and other forms of social media, we have seen how it is used to humiliate, and in some cases, to have the worst of outcomes, because the victim has absolutely no control over an anonymous, faceless predator.

People who commit these cowardly acts need to be held to account as quickly as possible. This legislation is a good start. We must recognize, as legislators, that when it comes to the Criminal Code, we must provide the most up-to-date laws so that both the police and the courts can deal with this type of crime.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, everyone in the House agrees that this is a crucial issue. There have been some very serious tragedies across Canada, including what happened to Rehtaeh Parsons last year. We all want to work together.

Why did my Conservative colleague not support Bill C-540, introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, which would have achieved the consensus of the House and would have allowed us to tackle the bullying problem right away?

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the reality is that Bill C-13 is a bill that is all inclusive. It provides what we want to do with regard to cyberbullying, but it would also enhance the ability of police to do investigations through electronic means. We need to continue down this road. This is a great start, and I look forward to looking at Bill C-13 at committee.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Kootenay—Columbia. He has so much credibility when he speaks to these issues, as he served our country as an RCMP officer for years. Listening to what he has to say really gives us, here in the House, some perspective on what the bill actually means on the ground.

That is going to be my question to him, if he could elaborate. He said that he has been listening to the speeches throughout the day and that people misunderstand what the reality is out there. He has heard people say that we should split the bill. He said that we cannot have one without the other. I was hopeful that he could use some of the time remaining to actually explain this in detail so that other members in the House would realize why it is so important that we move forward with this very important bill.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when we are dealing with electronic forms of communication, the police need to be able to obtain that information through those means. Because we are in a computer age, when someone in a far-reaching country can impact someone in Canada within seconds, the police have to be able to intercept, track, and monitor those types of things. The bill identifies specifically what the police can and cannot do with regard to the transmission of data and the electronic data they receive.

When police enter into an investigation, it is far-reaching, and it takes a long time to get to that electronic interception portion of the investigation. However, we also have to recognize that with regard to things we have seen recently, it can change very quickly. Giving the police the ability to have electronic data information is something that is essential to ensuring that this does not happen again.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think there is any question that every member in the House wants to see action taken to ensure that with the use of the Internet for bullying, for intimidation, and for spreading pornographic images, we have all the tools law enforcement needs. However, the balance must be maintained to ensure that we do not open up warrantless access to the records of thousands of Canadians who are committing no crimes.

I recognize the hon. member's time with the RCMP, and I appreciate the work he did. It could be cumbersome to obtain a warrant, but in most cases, surely the RCMP are able to obtain warrants as they go through the business of proceeding in criminal trials and investigations. That has been the rule of law in our country, and we need to extend it to the Internet, not raise the flood gates on warrantless access.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am a little confused by the question, because there is nothing in the bill with regard to warrantless searches. I would like to see the section that says warrantless search. There is nothing in there. There is a preservation order. A police officer must still go to a justice to get approval to get the information from the preservation order. There is absolutely nothing in the bill for a warrantless search and never will be.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak in support of this bill. In doing so, I wish to salute the leadership and thoughtful analysis that has been provided by my colleague, the member for Gatineau. As is so often the case in the House, I wish I could simply stand in this place and enthusiastically support this Conservative initiative, but once again the Conservatives cannot stop themselves from overreaching.

As others have noted in this debate thus far, the official opposition requested unanimous consent to have the bill divided into two parts and to allow the part that was initially introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Bill C-540, the non-consensual distribution of intimate images, dealt with in one fashion, and ask that it be adopted as quickly as possible in committee because of all-party support. Why could this not be about that? Because it is about more than that. Other provisions from the defunct Bill C-30 should be studied separately, in the NDP's view, and given the attention that they so desperately require.

I am going to speak first about some of the cyberbullying issues, then focus upon what are called the lawful access provisions and the critique that so many people have made about those provisions, and then return in the few minutes available to the issue of cyberbullying, which is so critical.

Even in this fractured and divided Parliament, I cannot imagine many colleagues who would disagree with the need to better protect people of all ages from the distribution of intimate images without their consent. We have clearly heard from families, educators and law enforcement officials that there is a need to update the Criminal Code to address this kind of malicious activity. There seems to be no doubt about that. In fact, a few months ago I attended a presentation on Parliament Hill that was hosted by ResearchImpact, Canada's knowledge mobilization network group, that is seeking to maximize the economic, social, health and environmental impacts of research.

Among the presentations I heard in the Centre Block was one by a University of Victoria professor on a program that Professor Bonnie Leadbeater, a professor in the department of psychology at the University of Victoria, was involved in as a researcher. She is also the author and evaluator of WITS LEADS, an elementary school program, a program designed to bring together schools, families and communities to help elementary school children deal with bullying and peer victimization and to encourage adults to respond more effectively to children's requests for help.

This cutting-edge research by Professor Leadbeater and her peers has made a real impact across the country. In fact, for her work, Professor Leadbeater was awarded the Partnership Award by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research this past year. I am happy to see such important and applied research on bullying from my community and that it has had such national impact.

Therefore, it is unfortunate that the Conservatives are taking a straightforward issue that everyone supports and making it into something much more complicated than it needs to be. That is why the NDP has proposed the splitting of this bill, with all of its unanimous support, from those parts that are, frankly, much more controversial, as I will describe in a moment.

We all know that the initiative for Bill C-13 was the tragic events of the highly-publicized suicides of two adolescent victims of cyberbullying, Rehtaeh Parsons of Nova Scotia and Amanda Todd from my province of British Columbia. Frankly, the bill essentially repeats what my colleague, the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, had already put in his bill, as I said earlier, so obviously there is no issue of support. However, the scope of the application of Bill C-13 is so much larger and targets a whole lot of other issues that have nothing to do with cyberbullying, issues like access to bank financial data, the Terrorist Financing Act, telemarketers and the theft of telecommunications services. These are all in the bill before us today.

It is the issue of access and warrantless disclosure of personal information from Internet service providers to “lawful authorities” that is at issue for this other part, the larger part of this initiative, and it is that I wish to address now.

Many experts on privacy law have expressed great concern over this initiative. A famous privacy lawyer in Halifax, David Fraser, has expressed it as “really cynical and disappointing”, to use his words. He says that there is a whole bunch of irrelevant and other stuff in here that is going to distract from the legitimate discussion of how to fine tune it and get it absolutely right. He is, of course, right.

I would like to focus on the very current critique of the bill by Professor Michael Geist who is perhaps one of our most famous academics and practitioners in this field.

Professor Geist, the Canada Research Chair of Internet and E-commerce Law, is a professor at the University of Ottawa. To say he has written prolifically on this topic would be an understatement. As recently as two weeks ago, he wrote the following:

The debate over Bill C-13, the government's latest lawful access bill, is set to resume shortly. The government has argued that the bill should not raise concerns since new police powers involve court oversight and the mandatory warrantless disclosure provisions that raised widespread concern in the last bill have been removed. While that is the government's talking points, I've posted on how this bill now includes incentives for telecom companies and other intermediaries to disclose subscriber information without court oversight since it grants them full civil and criminal immunity for doing so. Moreover, newly released data suggests that the telecom companies don't seem to need much of an incentive as they are already disclosing subscriber data on thousands of Canadians every year without court oversight.

This is not an opposition politician speaking. This is probably the leading academic expert on this matter in the country who is bringing this to our attention. No wonder there continues to be great concern.

Professor Geist goes on to talk about the work that the Privacy Commissioner is doing, the recommendations she has released designed to enforce privacy protections in the age of cybersurveillance and a report that includes recommendations for reform to our private sector privacy law to:

—require public reporting on the use of various disclosure provisions under PIPEDA where private-sector entities such as telecommunications companies release personal information to national security entities without court oversight.

That is what is before us.

Civil liberties groups and academics sent a public letter to the various leading telecom companies asking them to shed new light on this policy of data retention and sharing policies. The claim is that our role in the whole surveillance activity remains a bit of a mystery, but there can be little doubt that Canadian telecom and Internet companies play an important role as intermediaries that access, retain and possibly disclose information about their subscribers' activities. These are the kinds of concerns that have so many Canadians continuing to be concerned.

I would like to read another quote into the record from Professor Geist. He says:

In fact, Bill C-13, the so-called “cyberbullying” bill, includes a provision that is likely to increase the number of voluntary disclosures without court oversight since it grants telecom companies and Internet providers complete immunity from any civil or criminal liability for those disclosures....The privacy implications of this secret disclosure system are enormous...

I wholeheartedly support the initiative on cyberbullying. However, once again, I wish the government did not overreach and go into this area of lawful access, which causes so much concern in the communities across the country.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member referred to warrantless searches and telecommunication companies retaining data and potentially providing it to the police. Could the member give an example of that?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that is addressed in the bill is the so-called low threshold for what is called metadata. Professor Geist has been talking about the voluntary disclosure resulting from privacy threats of personal information and the lack of civil and criminal immunity granted to intermediaries like Internet service providers and telecom companies that provide disclosure. It is the definition in the bill of transmission data that is so concerning.

The bill would create a new warrant allowing judges to order the disclosure of transmission data when there would be reasonable grounds. However, there is also this continuing concern about metadata, which if we have learned nothing from the revelations in the last while concerning the national security agency and CSEC, we obviously have to address very carefully.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as my colleagues have already said in the House, we have some reservations about this bill. We would certainly change a number of things.

I would like my colleague to tell us what he would like to change about this bill and whether he has confidence in the committee process given the Conservative majority in Parliament.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about the provisions that used to be in Bill C-30, the “you're with us or you're with the child pedophiles” bill as the former minister of public safety referred to it. It would appear that many of those provisions have been put into this bill without a lot of analysis. We have an amalgam of a bill that everyone supports on cyberbullying with its controversial provisions of that sort dealing with public safety.

The bill will go to committee for which I am obviously grateful, but a lot more work needs to be done with it. Whether the government of the day, having tried once, failed and come back again, will accept amendments will remain to be seen. We live in hope.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as my colleague said, there clearly is a difference between the Conservative talking points around critical issues of privacy and what is actually in the bill.

I have also reviewed what Professor Geist has had to say about the bill and I am concerned that the privacy of Canadians could be infringed.

Could the member for Victoria explain more clearly what the difference is between the sections where the judge would have supervisory powers over the access to evidence and where telecommunication companies would turn over private information without review?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, to do so would require an analysis of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act that has been the subject of a mandatory review by the House but has yet to take place; that is to say, we have not had that bill reintroduced. It deals with telecommunication companies and the like. How that is going to connect with this initiative is something about which many people are worried. In other words, we have a two-legged stool but we are only examining one leg here to fully understand how it is going to work.

The government should finally come forward with the amendments to PIPEDA that are long overdue and awaited by so many sectors so we really can effectively and fully answer the question by my hon. colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act.

I would like to use this opportunity to speak to some of the misconceptions about this important piece of legislation. Much has been reported in the media about Bill C-13 proposing an expansive new power that would allow police to collect and obtain evidence without a court order. Further, it has been reported that this new provision would encourage telephone and Internet companies to provide as much information as they want, because they would be protected from criminal and civil liability.

In all honesty, I am not sure where to start when addressing these assertions because they are misleading and inaccurate. The much maligned provision in question is the proposed section 487.0195 of the Criminal Code. This proposed section has been portrayed by some as a convenient way for the police to sidestep court authorization requirements by requesting, from organizations, for example banks, telecommunication service providers, et cetera, voluntary disclosure or voluntary preservation of documents or data.

I want to be clear at the outset that this provision is included in Bill C-13 for greater certainty only. As is the case for similar types of provisions used sporadically throughout the Criminal Code, proposed section 487.0195 is intended to clarify Parliament's intent relating to a provision and to assist the courts in interpreting the law. To be clear, proposed section 487.0195 would not provide the police with any new powers.

Under the law today, and under the law prior to the creation of production orders in 2004, police, as part of their general policing duties of common law, have always been permitted to obtain information voluntarily from a third party without a court order. In 2004, production orders were included in the Criminal Code to allow police to obtain a court order that would compel a third party to provide information in situations where the third party could not or would not do so voluntarily.

I say “could not or would not” here because companies have obligations regarding the protection of information. Companies that collect the personal information of Canadians have to store it, use it, and disclose it in accordance with privacy legislation, such as the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. In addition, they may have other relevant obligations not to disclose information, for example, pursuant to their contractual agreements with the customers.

It may also be of interest to note that most privacy legislation is crafted in a permissive manner when it comes to disclosures. This means that the legislation spells out when a company can voluntarily disclose information. In other words, the legislation permits the disclosure of personal information in certain circumstances but never requires it.

This is a very important point, because there have been concerns expressed that section 487.0195 is somehow creating a new power requiring companies to provide access to information. It is not a new power, it is merely a re-enactment of an existing “for greater certainty” clause, nor does it contain any requirement to co-operate with a request. Police can ask for the voluntary disclosure of information, but the third party is free to refuse to disclose it until a judicial warrant or order has been issued. The initial version of this “for greater certainty” provision was enacted in 2004 as section 487.014 of the Criminal Code. It was created to make it clear that there was no need for the police to obtain production orders when persons were providing their assistance on a voluntary basis as long as there was no prohibition against the person doing so.

To put it another way, the primary purpose of this provision was, and still is under the proposed section 487.0195, to clarify that police do not need a judicial protection order every time they ask a person for information.

To sum up on these points, section 487.0195 is not new to the Criminal Code. It has existed since 2004. It is not a power. By its very definition, it can only clarify what already exists in the law, and cannot be the source of new legal authority.

The explicit protections from criminal and civil liability now found in subsection 487.0195(2) of this “for greater certainty” provision have also been mis-characterized as a “get out of jail free” card or as a provision that will open up the flood gates and allow the free flow of information between the private sector and the state.

It is true that Bill C-13 proposes to amend the law to explicitly refer to the protections from civil and criminal liability when a person chooses to provide voluntary assistance to the police. However, this amendment would not be a major change to the law as it presently stands. The Criminal Code currently provides this protection under section 25, which is cross-referenced in the current version of this section, section 47.014. The cross-reference to section 25 in the law currently and the new text proposed in Bill C-13 are both designed to clarify that a person who discloses information could not be sued or prosecuted for voluntarily providing information that they are not prohibited from disclosing.

It should be noted, however, that the considerable case law interpreting the scope of the existing protections under section 25 is consistent in that it only protects conduct that is reasonable in the circumstances. This is not a blanket protection for assisting police. A telephone company that voluntarily provides information to police that they are legally obligated to protect, including under contract, could not avail itself of these protections.

To be clear, whether Parliament again legislates in this area or not, this protection already exists through the court's interpretation of section 25 of the Criminal Code. Including language in the bill that explicitly indicates more clearly the existing protections from civil and criminal liability in the current law is not a proposal for substantive change. It would make the provision more transparent and understandable on its face. This is not a significant development of the law in this area, nor is there any hidden agenda.

This provision is not expected to have a large impact on current practices. All it does is clarify and make more transparent the current protections. This clarification may help new companies that are just entering into co-operation with law enforcement for the first time to more easily be able to understand the scope of the law in this area. They would not have to hire lawyers to research the jurisprudence to understand how the protections afforded by current section 25 of the Criminal Code would apply in this context.

I will take a moment to speak about the other minor changes that are proposed for this section. Bill C-13 proposes to incorporate a reference to preservation demands and preservation orders into the section, to clarify that a person may also voluntarily preserve data, so long as doing so is not otherwise prohibited.

Bill C-13 also proposes to remove a reference to the public officer “enforcing this or any other Act of Parliament” from the current section 487.014 to ensure that the provision is not misinterpreted as precluding voluntary co-operation in the context of general policing duties that do not directly relate to the enforcement of a statute. Such common law police duties include contacting the next-of-kin of an accident victim, returning stolen property to its owner, or contacting the homeowner in the case of a break-in.

Police are better able to keep society safe and to investigate criminal activity when persons, groups, and organizations are willing to assist them. The purpose of the current Criminal Code section 487.014 and the proposed section 497.0195 of Bill C-13 is to ensure that police and the public can continue to work co-operatively. In the context of this provision, the proposed legislation does not provide the police with any new powers. The bill proposes small revisions to the current law, to make clearer in what circumstances the police do not require production orders if a third party voluntarily assists in a police investigation by voluntarily providing information.

I would add that the type of mis-characterization of the bill that we have witnessed by some commentators distracts from fruitful debate on the subject. This is an important bill, not only for what it provides Canadians in the form of increased protections on the issue of cyberbullying, but also because it provides police with an investigative tool box for modern technology that protects and respects people's privacy.

Canada's international partners have been using these kinds of updated tools for over a decade. These new and modernized investigative tools will not only give police access to the information and evidence they need to apprehend Internet criminals, but they will also assist police in addressing crimes generally in today's advanced telecommunications environment, where smart phones and computers are ubiquitous and telecommunications technologies are constantly evolving.

These tools have been carefully tailored to balanced the interests of the state in collecting vital evidence relating to the commission of a crime with personal privacy interests that Canadians value so profoundly.

Each tool was calibrated to reflect its relative level of invasiveness against the privacy interest in the information it is used to obtain. Although many of our international partners have had access to these types of tools for well over a decade, the extra time Canada has taken to enact these updates has allowed us to learn from the successes and failures of others, and I am confident that the investigative toolbox that Bill C-13 would provide police has incorporated the most sophisticated privacy protections for Canadians.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my colleague's speech and many of the speeches this afternoon with great interest because at the heart of it, all parties agree with the essential underpinning of part of this bill, which is to protect young people from cyberbullying.

However, there is a history here, and my hon. colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour presented a bill 10 months ago that would have done exactly this. We have been asking the government, as we have on many other occasions, to split this bill to make this a much clearer declaration and protection for young people, and with the adoption of the measures that were in the previous bill that my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour presented.

Could my colleague answer a simple question? If this entire House is focused and agrees on the importance of this, why would the government muddy the waters by bringing in a variety of other issues including the imposition of a two-year sentence for somebody who steals cable? Why would that be thrown into a bill that is supposed to protect young people from cyberbullying?

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it has been pointed out by my colleagues very clearly why this bill is so important to be collectively put together in this manner, to try to protect from cyberbullying not only our youth of today but others as well in our Canadian society, particularly from electronic cyberbullying. There are many types of cyberbullying that are not offensive, but the type of cyberbullying that can be done electronically without consent is certainly not acceptable in our society. It does not keep our streets safe. It does not keep our young people, or many adults, from being put into abusive situations, because the type of cyberbullying we are talking about has been done without their consent in many cases.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I was interested to hear the member talk about the privacy safeguards contained in the bill. I would say “incredulous” would be closer to the right word.

There is a provision within the bill that would provide an immunity for Internet service providers and telcos who voluntarily provide information. So this is an immunity against civil prosecution and against criminal prosecution. Could the member explain how this immunity ties in with his thesis that there are privacy protections contained in the bill?

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I made it very clear in my comments that in relation to some particular types of questioning that can be done by individuals for their privacy on this particular bill, there are many areas where disclosure is not part of the laws we have in Canada today. Particularly, as I pointed out, in the case of some companies, there are privacy legislation and laws in place that they have to work with their employees before a company can provide such disclosure, and it would be up to the individuals.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his excellent speech on Bill C-13. We have heard a few times today from opposition members about splitting the bill, and it was part of a previous question.

We seem to have agreement among the parties that first, the bill is going to go to committee, which is excellent; and that second, making cyberbullying a criminal offence is important. However, there seems to be a discussion about whether we give the police and the legal system the tools to actually enforce that criminal offence.

Can the member talk about why it is important that the bill have both? Not just identify and create a criminal offence for cyberbullying but also give police and other law enforcement and judicial systems the ability to enforce the new criminal law.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the concern, of course, is to put some teeth behind being able to define what cyberbullying might be. Without having some kind of penalty put in place for law enforcement, it is a very difficult bill to enforce.

The opposition would perhaps like to have an identification of cyberbullying with no consequences. Our government is committed to providing an outcome that is very clear. There has to be some way of backing up the identification of cyberbullying with an enforced result that tries to protect and prohibit people from continuing to provide such cyberbullying mechanisms in the future.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour and pleasure to speak in the House to Bill C-13, from a couple of perspectives.

As the chair of the justice committee, I am looking forward to the discussion and debate we will have with the many witnesses who come forward on this important bill. Because of the issue of cyberbullying, the Government of Canada, and all of us, recognize the importance of Bill C-13 and taking a proactive approach on this.

However, before I get into that, I will admit that I did not know much about the aspects of cyberbullying. Therefore, over the last few weeks I have had the opportunity to talk to my daughters, who are 23 and 24, one of whom has just graduated from university. The other one is still in university, which is not that far away from high school.

We live in a relatively affluent community. There is no denying that Burlington is relatively affluent. I asked them what they knew about cyberbullying in their high school or this community. To my surprise, both of my daughters indicated there were two incidents within their own high school. Young women were photographed without their consent, in what I will describe as compromising situations, and those images were distributed throughout the high school. It did not result in the kind of tragedy that we have had elsewhere in Canada; however, it was an absolute form of bullying that I was not even aware of.

This issue, which we all agree is an issue, does affect all areas of Canada. There is no economic disparity in terms of lower-income people being more apt to experience higher aspects of cyberbullying than higher-income communities. It affects everyone. That is why this bill is important and needs to be comprehensive.

I know we have heard a few discussions from the other side about there being a motion to deal with a strategy. Strategies are great for collecting dust. From our perspective, we need action. This bill takes action.

We heard that there was a private member's bill from the opposition on a specific portion of cyberbullying, which is accurate. However, I think we have, in a more appropriate way, taken a more comprehensive approach to attacking this issue and applying the laws of the land to it.

I have not heard anyone say that this is not a complicated issue. Once in a while it has been said that there is a simple answer. There is no simple answer. What we are doing today will not end cyberbullying. I do not think that anyone is declaring a victory over cyberbullying.

However, these are the tools we need to attack this problem. We need to make it a criminal offence. We need to give police and the judiciary the tools to enforce this law. We need it so that when we do catch these individuals who are spreading inappropriate, non-consensual photos of youth, which is the example I will use because we are familiar with it—although it can happen at all ages, and the bill does not apply just to youth but to everyone—the country will have the tools to say that it is a criminal offence, something that we will not tolerate, and they will face a consequence for doing it. In addition, we will provide the police with the ability to do investigations, to collect evidence to sustain a criminal offence in terms of prosecution through the court system.

My hope is that as we attack this problem through the police, the judicial system, and our criminal court system, and that as those who are committing these crimes are found guilty, it will be a wake-up call to end cyberbullying. It is a process that will not happen overnight, but it is one that we need to start.

I want to talk for a few minutes about some of the myths we have heard regarding this bill. In one of the earlier speeches, someone said we are making the stealing of cable signals illegal. Guess what? Stealing cable is already illegal. People are not allowed to take cable without paying for it. That is already in the Criminal Code. All the bill does is to improve the wording, to capture that activity and the new ways of telecommunications and cable providing Internet services. That is what the bill would do. Stealing cable signals is illegal. Everyone in the House should know that and should not be questioning why it is in the bill.

A big myth about the bill is that it incorporates the controversial elements of Bill C-30, which rightfully was withdrawn by our government, in response to two things. One was regarding some activity that could take place that would not require a warrant. It was clearly in the bill, and it is not in Bill C-13. Every activity requires a warrant. That was the reaction we had, and we went through the bill and changed the process to reflect what we heard from the public and the opposition parties.

We should be congratulated on that, but that is not what happens around here. That is part of the problem with the House. When a government listens to the opposition and the public and makes a change, it should be congratulated and not criticized for making that change. That is not what happens around here. The government was told that it was not competent to know that in the first place, so it was criticized for making a change. Why bother making a change? In this case, making the change was the right thing to do, and that is why we did it.

There was another piece in Bill C-30 that dealt with the framework by which a provider of Internet services would have to have something so that we could monitor the traffic, basically. We got rid of that piece. It is not in the current bill, and that was part of what we heard in terms of a response to Bill C-13.

I have heard from the opposition members not to be reactive, to be proactive. This is exactly what Bill C-13 does. It is proactive activity that the police are able to undertake so they can do their job, so we can bring criminals who are attacking our young people to justice. Being proactive is exactly what Bill C-13 does.

The third issue we heard about is that this is an omnibus bill. We agree with making it a criminal offence, which is excellent, and everyone should agree with that. However, there are other parts in the bill that actually implement the criminal offence, that allow the police and the judicial system to charge folks, investigate, bring them to court, and bring them to justice, to end this horrific crime that is mostly done against young people.

We need Bill C-13. I am looking forward to the committee stage. It is my understanding that we have a tremendous number of witnesses to talk about the different issues. That is where the debate will really happen, in terms of witnesses telling us what could be better. We will have a discussion among the members of Parliament, ask good questions, and we will get the best bill we can to help protect the young people of this country.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP would obviously like to change a number of things in the bill. Honestly, I must say that we do not have a lot of trust in the government, because it has rejected all the amendments proposed by the NDP in committee. I do not believe that the government will work with us on improving this bill and ensuring that the bill truly meets the needs of people who are bullied.

I would like to ask the following question. Why did the government not support the bill introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour? He introduced Bill C-540 to address cyberbullying. Why did the government wait for months instead of simply supporting my colleague's bill, which would have helped speed up the process?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have two answers. One is to the question and the other is to the lead-up to the question.

First of all, on the lead-up to the question, if the member from the NDP checks with the Chair, she will find that there have been NDP amendments for different items at the justice committee that have been accepted. To say that we are 100% no-confidence or that 100% of the NDP amendments have never been approved or accepted at committee is completely inaccurate.

Secondly, I personally did not support the NDP private member’s motion because it was not comprehensive enough. The motion dealt with making cyberbullying a crime, but it did not give the tools to enforce the Criminal Code. That is why we needed a government motion that would be properly vetted through the justice department. We are much more comprehensive in our approach to this very complicated issue.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the member indicated that the warrantless production of documents and the warrantless search is now a thing of the past, and that this element of Bill C-30 is not present in Bill C-13. However, there is something in Bill C-13 that would provide immunity to Internet service providers and telephone companies when they produce records at the request of law enforcement authorities. In order to make it easier for them, this immunity would apply to both criminal prosecution for the production of these records and any civil suit.

Given that the member's position is that there are no longer warrantless searches, is it not the case that there is now an incentive for co-operation among Internet service providers, or at least a disincentive has been removed, which is tantamount to having warrantless searches all over again? What the government is doing indirectly is what it tried to do directly, through Bill C-30.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is a huge stretch and it is just not accurate. In any criminal activity right now, a Canadian, whether a company or an individual, has the right and the opportunity to voluntarily support and help the police in an investigation. If my house gets broken into, I can invite the police in to do a search to help find the culprit.

All we would do with this legislation is try to encourage businesses to actively and proactively support finding the culprits who are carrying out criminal activity against our youth. I see no problem with that. I know that the Canadian public has no problem with that, and I will be supporting that in this legislation.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, could the member comment on transmission data? It has been a bit of a question here on what the police can and cannot do with transmission data, and what they can and cannot reveal.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I had to read about what transmission data is. It is the information that the Internet provider has. The police can go and say it is not allowed to delete the information. We have that in Ontario legislation, but I think the Liberals did it anyway. The information has to be put on hold. The police do not have access to it. They have to go and get a warrant to get access to it, but it prevents the Internet provider from actually deleting it.

As we know, bits and bytes are pretty easy to delete. We want to keep them for the police to do their proper and proactive investigations.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to speak to Bill C-13. We could call it, among other things, the bill to protect Canadians against cybercrime.

This bill focuses on cyberbullying and bullying, something that I feel very strongly about. I have worked on this almost since I became an MP and even before that. I am the father of two daughters, one in elementary school and the other in high school. Thus, I am very concerned about the issue of bullying and cyberbullying. Furthermore, I was formerly a teacher. I was a high school and adult education teacher for almost 10 years.

I realized that bullying and cyberbullying are very important concerns. We have to tackle them and work on prevention. In fact, prevention is the first thing we must work on. This bill provides for solutions once the damage has been done, but we also have to work on prevention.

In that regard, even before I start talking about the bill, I would like to point out that the NDP is leading the fight against bullying. Two NDP members did an excellent job of bringing this subject to the attention of the Conservatives, who really did not have this on their radar. The first, the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, worked very hard after being elected to introduce a motion, which unfortunately was defeated by the Conservatives. I still cannot believe what happened. It is mind-boggling to see all that.

What is important is that this motion was about a bullying and cyberbullying prevention strategy. The strategy was very well laid out. I will come back to that later because it really is an important element that the Conservatives should take a look at.

There was also the bill introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Bill C-540. I still do not understand why the Conservative did not vote in favour of this bill. I do not understand why they voted against it, since the main provisions in that bill can be found in Bill C-13. We could have saved some time if everyone had supported the bill introduced by the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, which could have been sent to committee to be amended. That is what democracy is about. We fully support democracy.

However, it is completely unacceptable that the Conservatives voted against the bill and have now introduced a very similar bill. Furthermore, they are turning it into a partisan issue by saying that the Conservatives are the ones who drafted this bill and that they are very good.

It is sad to see this kind of partisanship in the House of Commons, especially on such an important issue. We are talking about the future of our youth. Young people are our future. We need to take care of them because our wealth lies in them. We need to pay attention to them and combat bullying and cyberbullying. This should not be a partisan issue. We should have been able to address this problem, which transcends party lines.

I am very disappointed that we were not able to move forward with these bills.

Before I go into more detail on Bill C-13, I would like to commend some groups in my riding of Drummond for the work that they have been doing day in and day out for years. Recently, in 2012, there was a big event to provide information, promote awareness and speak out against bullying.

All of the groups in the greater Drummond area that work every day on these issues were there. Sometimes large events like this are organized, but most of our organizations' work is done on a day-to-day basis.

The anti-bullying committee, which is part of the anti-violence committee, welcomed representatives from Sûreté du Québec, the Commission scolaire des Chênes, Collège Saint-Bernard, CALACS La passerelle, CAVAC, École aux Quatre-Vents—which has shown great initiative in the fight against bullying—Buropro, Commun Accord, the Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées, the CSSS and others. Many concerned people in the greater Drummond area came together in the fight against bullying and cyberbullying. This was a major gathering in the greater Drummond area.

Earlier, I listened to the excellent speech given by my colleague from Sherbrooke. I also listened to the very heartfelt and passionate speech given by my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, who has been fighting against bullying and cyberbullying for a long time.

The NDP members are the ones at the forefront of the fight against bullying and cyberbullying. That is why we are going to vote in favour of Bill C-13. However, we do so with a twinge of regret because we know that the Conservatives voted against a similar bill that we introduced.

This bill contains all sorts of measures. Unfortunately, the Conservatives use good bills that make sense, such as Bill C-13, as catch-all bills. This is what we call omnibus bills. They confuse the issue and therefore we do not know whether we will vote for or against the bill. If the fight against cyberbullying were the main focus of the bill, we would definitely have voted in favour of it.

What this bill is missing is a focus on prevention. I know how important that is from my experience as a teacher and a father and from listening to my colleagues, such as the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord. He proposed a strategy to combat bullying and cyberbullying. I would like to talk a little bit about it because it is extremely worthwhile. It is disappointing that the Conservatives voted against it, but it is not too late.

Front-line groups in Drummond and Sherbrooke are essential, as the member for Sherbrooke so rightly pointed out during his speech. They are the ones doing the work on a daily basis. However, the government must also stand firm at the national level, give good guidance and provide support.

I see that I have less than a minute to talk about this important, topical issue. The motion moved by the hon. member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord stated that the House should study the prevalence and impact of different types of bullying, including cyberbullying. It is important to understand what this is really about. Then, we need to identify and adopt a range of evidence-based best practices to combat bullying and cyberbullying. Finally, we need to promote and disseminate anti-bullying information to Canadian families.

Schools and organizations are important, but families are too. Parents have a role to play by talking to their children about the serious nature of what they are doing. Bullying and cyberbullying are serious and can have a serious impact on the community.

The organizations that are working on this issue in Drummond and Sherbrooke and across Canada need support.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague across the way has acknowledged the importance of this bill. It is an ongoing issue now in Canada.

Lianna McDonald is the CEO of the Canadian Centre for Child Protection in Winnipeg. Lianna has a lot of experience in working with victims of cyberbullying. She said that Bill C-13 “will assist in stopping the misuse of technology and help numerous young people impacted and devastated by this type of victimization”. For someone like Lianna McDonald who works every day with this, I would like to hear what my colleague has to say about her very insightful comment.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for her question and comments.

She is absolutely right. Bill C-13 is a useful part of the fight against cyberbullying. The first problem is that the Conservatives already voted against a similar bill that we introduced.

The second problem is that this bill is a catch-all. It contains amendments to certain laws concerning financial data of banks, such as the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act, as well as changes that concern telemarketing and the theft of a telecommunication service. It includes a number of the provisions of the former Bill C-30.

If Bill C-13 actually allowed us to seriously address cyberbullying, we would pass it quickly. Unfortunately, this is a catch-all that contains some very bad measures. That is what we have a problem with.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Drummond for his excellent speech. I would also like to thank him for mentioning the organizations in Sherbrooke that are doing excellent work on the ground. These stakeholders in Sherbrooke work on a daily basis with young people, whether in schools or in other sites in Sherbrooke. Their essential work in our communities is based on prevention rather than providing a cure.

Can my colleague explain why it is important to adapt our legislation to new technologies? Does he think that bullying has changed over the past 30, 40 or 50 years? Has the way in which young people bully each other changed, even if they are doing it unconsciously? Why should we adapt our legislation as a result?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Sherbrooke. Indeed, cyberbullying has become a very dangerous weapon and is much easier to use than traditional bullying. Bullying and cyberbullying are both extremely dangerous.

Recent studies have shown that cyberbullying has an adverse effect on the social and emotional aspects of a young person's life and on their ability to learn in school. Effects include anxiety, shorter attention spans, lower marks in school, feelings of despair and isolation, depression and even suicidal tendencies.

Bullying and cyberbullying are tragic. We need to tackle and prevent these issues. First and foremost, we need to prevent this phenomenon altogether. When we cannot prevent, we must stop it, but sometimes it is too late for some young people. That is why it is important to tackle this problem. We need to take the bull by the horns and support organizations like the ones in Sherbrooke and Drummond.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It being 6:15 p.m., pursuant to order made Wednesday, March 26, 2014, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

In my opinion the yeas have it. I declare the motion carried. Accordingly the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would request that we see the clock at 6:30 p.m.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.