Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage as we continue our study on Canada's 150th anniversary.

I'm pleased to have with us today Andrew Campbell from Parks Canada. He is the vice-president, external relations and visitor experience.

Welcome, Andrew.

As you know, committee, we are meeting for the first hour with Parks Canada on the Canada 150, and then for the second hour we're moving into the consideration of the supplementary estimates, when the Minister of Canadian Heritage will be appearing.

Mr. Campbell, you have the floor.

[Andrew Campbell, Vice-President, External Relations and Visitor Experience, Parks Canada Agency]

Thank you very much, Mr. Moore, and thank you to the group.

Good morning, everybody.

As the vice-president of external relations and visitor experience at Parks Canada, I really appreciate the opportunity this morning to be able to contribute to the preparations of Canada's 150th anniversary. Since it's the federal agency responsible for many of Canada’s most cherished natural and historic treasures, we've already been thinking of the sesquicentennial ourselves, and I have already been working very closely with the Department of Canadian Heritage on the planning for the road to 2017.

At Parks Canada, as many of you know, we're very committed to ensuring the protection and preservation of Canada's natural and cultural heritage through a network of 42 national parks, 167 national historic sites, and 4 national marine conservation areas. We believe that Parks Canada really sets the stage and invites Canadians and people from around the world to engage in personal moments of inspiring discovery of our treasured places in Canada.

As a bit of background, our mandate, just to remind everybody, is as follows: On behalf of the people of Canada, we protect and present nationally significant examples of Canada's natural and cultural heritage, and foster public understanding, appreciation and enjoyment in ways that ensure the ecological and commemorative integrity of these places for present and future generations.

Our vision, which we established about five years ago and are still working closely on, is as follows:Canada’s treasured natural and historic places will be a living legacy, connecting hearts and minds to a stronger, deeper understanding of the very essence of Canada.

We were fortunate in 2010 to be able to celebrate one national milestone: the 125th anniversary of the first national park in Canada, which was Banff. In fact, it was the third national park in the world.

Over the last year, we were able also to celebrate the 100th anniversary of Parks Canada, or, as it was first established, the Dominion Parks Branch, which in 1911 became the first national parks organization in the entire world. This began the tradition of world leadership in conservation of nationally significant natural and cultural places.

The celebration of this first-in-the-world anniversary presented Parks Canada with a real immediacy and opportunity to look for increased connection with Canadians. The concept of the national celebration of Parks Canada offered us a chance to use the multipliers that we had been working on and also to cost-effectively accelerate progress towards the achievement of our mandate and vision.

Although we did receive a fairly minor amount of confusion about why we would celebrate a 100th anniversary after a 125th anniversary, for the most part the increased attention and awareness that we gained during the 125th anniversary of the first national park actually was a great stepping stone for the celebrations in 2011 of the centennial of Parks Canada. Really, I think it holds a bit of a lesson for all of us as we look at the road to the sesquicentennial in looking at events leading up to that.

Obviously that road to 2017 approach being developed currently by the Government of Canada to mark significant anniversaries leading up to the 150th anniversary of Confederation promises to give similar benefits, as Canadians will become increasingly aware and informed of their heritage about significant events in their history that led to Canada becoming an independent country from coast to coast to coast.

As we look at Parks Canada's centennial strategy, we're able to share some of the factors of that success and hopefully lead to the success of the sesquicentennial. I think one of the first major elements in that success was coming up with very clear and articulate strategies and having very few of those.

In our case, they were: to leave a legacy of lasting improvements; to expand out the impact of the celebrations by engaging partners, whether they be in the media, amongst our stakeholders, in the private or the public sector, or of course in the federal family; and finally, to engage all Canadians, including also, obviously, our employees from across the country.

With our centennial year now entering its final phases, it's evident that the strategy has proved to be highly effective for us, as the amount of attention and the amount of connection to Canadians, through different independent surveying we have done, has proven to be. It would also appear that the strategies could be applicable to Canada's 150th.

The second area in which we had great success in learning was in trying to stream our activities. The first stream we had was signature events, large events that exemplified Parks Canada's programs and services to Canadians. They brought our messages directly to our priority audience of youth, new Canadians, and urban Canadians.

The second was to look at natural outreach and awareness activities through traditional and new media, with a focus on being able to have initiatives that went across multiple channels, whether they were traditional media, new media, or in-person media through stunts in areas where there were already large crowds.

Finally, we had enriched activities at our own places to attract and re-attract visitors, especially from those priority audiences that I've already discussed.

With these strategies and activities, we were able to achieve significant results with only a modest budget of $3 million reprofiled from within our existing resource base.

Really, we believe there were four keys to our success. The first was making good use of existing resources and activities by theming ongoing Parks Canada activities towards the centennial and increasing the relevance and impact. This included changing our youth hiring strategy over to the centennial and the first National Parks “Canada's Greatest Summer Job” strategy. We also highlighted different activities across the country. Our Fundy days took on a significant centennial theme, the Rideau Canal Festival this year had a significant centennial theme, and obviously there were some other elements across the country.

Second was partnering. For example, we partnered with new and traditional media, such as Rogers Communications, National Geographic, Canadian Geographic, GlassBOX Media, HLP productions, and others. We partnered with the tourism and entertainment sector, with players such as VIA Rail, the CN Tower, the Toronto Blue Jays, and Fairmont Hotels.

We partnered with non-governmental organizations, such as CPAWS, the Trans Canada Trail, and many others. Within the federal family, we partnered with groups such as the National Capital Commission, Canada Post, and the Royal Canadian Mint. Finally, we worked with major media, such as The Globe and Mail, the Toronto Star, and CTV. As well, I think one of the keys there was working with Canadian artists as we were doing all of this: from Sam Roberts, to the Skydiggers, to 13 of Canada's greatest independent filmmakers.

The third area that I think leaves us with some ideas for the sesquicentennial is leaving a legacy by striving to develop activities and elements with lasting value. To give you a few examples, we developed an outdoor signage program where we could do interchangeable sign faces that we installed as part of the National Parks 125th program. That same set of posts and sign faces for the centennial can be flipped and will now be able to carry messages about the War of 1812 and the road to 2017. To give you some idea, around 22 million Canadians come to our places on an annual basis, putting quite a number of eyeballs in front of these important government messages.

There were another couple of areas. One was to look at bringing in a family-friendly guided experience. In the new Xplorers program and the Learn to Camp program, we brought in urban and new Canadians to learn to camp. That will now be repeated year after year. Another was the renewal of our mascot, Parka. I think that and the new campfire song with Sarah Harmer were two very successful elements. Parka really showed us the value of a mascot--now a recognizable face at Parks Canada.

Finally among the lessons learned, we learned to focus our centennial budget primarily on a small number of big events where people were already going. Thus, we achieved breakthrough levels of awareness and impact. We were able to manage workloads and costs and, by partnering with existing events and festivals, we avoided that direct competition of the federal government coming in and competing against other festivals.

As we plan our forthcoming participation in the commemorations of the War of 1812 and other events on the road to 2017, we at Parks Canada believe the success of our centennial celebrations offers important lessons to guide our future activities, as well as approaches that worked for us during this time. We also believe that Parks Canada can help because it is in a unique position to bring Canadians a better sense of their natural and cultural places, their identity, and being part of Canada.

As Canada plans for our 150th birthday take shape, Parks Canada will be doing our utmost to add to the benefits and to add our benefits to the experience. Our efforts and the expertise of our people will be working towards this momentous occasion.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Campbell.

Now we'll begin our rounds of questioning. They are seven-minutes rounds, beginning with Mr. Brown.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Campbell, for being here today. I, for one, am extremely pleased that you're here today. I happen to represent a riding that has probably the biggest concentration of multiple Parks Canada assets in the country. We have the St. Lawrence Islands National Park, of course, which is the first national park east of the Rockies, and was formed in 1904. As well, the Rideau Canal is the northern boundary of my riding. We also have Fort Wellington in Prescott, as well as the Old Stone Mill in Delta. Fort Henry is in Kingston, just outside of my riding. There are a lot of Parks Canada assets around my area, so I am happy that you're here today.

I'd like to add that yesterday I introduced a bill to change the name of the St. Lawrence Islands National Park to the Thousand Islands National Park. I'm going to take a moment to talk about this because I know that our other members are here. There are many reasons to do that, but the St. Lawrence Islands National Park really could be anywhere from Kingston to almost Newfoundland, from a Canadian standpoint, whereas it's in the Thousand Islands, so it should more appropriately be called that. I'm sure you're aware of that, and I'm happy that you're here today to talk about Canada 150 and how we can leverage Parks Canada's assets to help celebrate Canada 150 in 2017.

Back in March of 2010, a conference took place here in Ottawa to talk about Canada 150. In the final report, there's a recommendation to revitalize urban green spaces and dedicate new national parks. I would just like to know what you think about that.

[Andrew Campbell]

I participated in that conference, and I believe that would be a great step forward. When we start to look at commitments in the last Speech from the Throne, for instance, on creating the Rouge national urban park--or near urban--I think that will be a great direction for part of the celebration. But to continue to develop and have new national parks I think would be a wonderful element for the 150th.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Has Parks Canada been asked in the past to play a part in national commemoration initiatives such as Canada 150? Maybe you can tell us a little about what may have happened in 1967 with the centennial.

[Andrew Campbell]

In 1967 there was quite a large push, in fact, in National Parks and National Historic Sites. In fact, it was a period of looking at the systems plans in both of those areas.

From a national historic sites perspective, it really pushed off the idea of system planning, looking at the areas of history in Canada, quantifying them and categorizing them, and then asking, “Where do we want to have commemorations for different elements of Canada's past?” It really set the chart forward for Parks Canada in that element. Then, in National Parks, there was quite a push at that time to put together the system plan of national parks, whereby the 39 ecological zones of Canada were in fact put together. That really started the movement towards the creation of new national parks and new ecological zones.

I'm proud to say that we now have a protected area space in Canada that is as large as the total land surface of Germany. It should be an element of pride for all Canadians. That was one way in which we have done past commemorations.

Obviously I've had a big role in elements such as the upcoming War of 1812. Parks Canada will have a fairly significant role; using a hockey analogy, if our centre is Canadian Heritage, we will be on the right wing. What we offer are great locations, great elements of history, and great interpretation, and we've used that for many celebrations throughout the years.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

As many members know, I never miss an opportunity to promote...well, it's not something that we should be promoting, but it is a fact that only three out of ten provinces in Canada require a history course for students to graduate from high school, which I think is a real tragedy. Maybe you can tell us a little about how you see us leveraging the assets of Parks Canada to really drive home an opportunity in 2017 to celebrate Canada's history and use some of Parks Canada's assets. Maybe you can tell us about how you might see some of those things happening.

[Andrew Campbell]

We've really been focusing on a connection with youth. As much as it's in the popular media today to talk about the nature deficit, we believe that we also have an equally disturbing history deficit among our youth in Canada, and perhaps among all Canadians.

One thing we have been doing is very much from a youth focus, and that is to look at things like the My Parks Pass program, which we launched for the anniversary of Canada's first national park. That program allows all grade 8 and grade 9 students in the country to get into our places for free.

We've teamed that up with the Xplorer program, which I talked about, so that when kids and that age group of youths do come to our places, we have activities specifically defined for them. It's an important age, we believe, and we've done some research around it. When you start to look at youths of 13 and 14, you actually see that when they're 13 in Canada it's the last time that they may in fact have any social studies as a mandatory program. So we look at that as an important point, with the youth then being able to pass this on to their parents.

Also, within the new citizenship, we've been working with Citizenship and Immigration Canada to include more elements of history. In fact, one of the great elements that we've been able to do is to move a lot of citizenship ceremonies out of courthouses and into national historic sites. There are citizenship ceremonies now going on all across the country at national historic sites, whereby new Canadians are connecting with our Canadian history up close and personal in an immersive experience as they're getting their citizenship.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Good morning. Thank you for being here with us this morning.

I think that Parks Canada will certainly have a major role to play in Canada's 150th anniversary. Certain topics, certain moments in Canada's history inspire all of us and are of particular significance.

I remember that my colleague Mr. Calandra told me that one day he learned some details about the St. Lawrence Seaway on a Web archives site—I think that it was either Radio-Canada or the NFB. The Canada Lands Company is eventually going to cede some land around Pointe-de-Longueuil, under the Jacques-Cartier Bridge, which is itself directly at the entrance of the St. Lawrence Seaway. That is where ships leave the river and enter the seaway.

You were saying earlier that you took part in the conference on the 150th anniversary. It was suggested that new historical sites be created. We have heard here many, many times—and God knows there has been a great deal of talk about the 150th anniversary since we began our hearings—of the importance of involving people, of having this start from the grassroots.

What type of consultations do you intend to hold with the population? I know that in connection with the 150th anniversary of Canada, a lot of people in Longueuil would like to see a commemorative park to mark the importance of the seaway. At that spot, the banks of the river are easily accessible by subway, among other means. However, access to the Seaway Park is much more restricted. It is in Saint-Lambert close to the locks, and to visit it you really have to want to.

Do you think that this project might see the light of day? How should we consult the population in that regard?

[Andrew Campbell]

I forgot to mention that point, but consulting Canadians is indeed very important when it comes to creating new parks or new historical sites. Parks Canada considers it crucial to communicate with urban populations. However it is difficult to do so because there is a lot of noise from the various media.

We increasingly use social media to communicate with Canadians and consult them. As for the example you gave, it would be very important to use the various types of consultations we have used in the past. That is certainly a direction Parks Canada has already taken.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Are there already infrastructures in place, Internet systems that make it possible to consult the public? I'm thinking here of some means to allow people to express their desire to see this type of park, for instance; or, in the case of the people of Longueuil, some means to ask that the strip of land that will be disposed of by the Canada Lands Company, and may be resold, be attributed to Parks Canada to be turned into a pedestrian walkway near the St. Lawrence River. What must people do to express those wishes in a concrete manner?

[Andrew Campbell]

All Canadians may request that the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada confer the status of national historic site upon a given place.

In addition to the 150th anniversary, there is another very important event in the history of Parks Canada; I am referring here to the 100th anniversary of the national historic sites that marked the history of Canada. This will take place in 2016. It could be an opportunity to review the future of that program and add other sites to the list of historic sites.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

At our last meeting, we had witnesses from the Trans Canada Trail. This project is certainly going to become one of the best commemorative symbols of the celebrations of the 150th anniversary. However, one has to be realistic and note that these efforts began 20 years ago and it will have taken 25 years for the trail to be completed.

As for the creation of historical sites, or sites that seem to be good potential parks to mark the 150th anniversary of Canada, that is certainly a long process. If we are aiming for the summer of 2017, by which date should the decision be taken? I imagine that if something has to be built, that can take quite a long time, but if all that needs to be done is to put up a few explanatory plaques and lay some paving stones, it would not take as long.

[Andrew Campbell]

It's quite difficult to say. If the place in question is already a historical site it should normally be the object of a certain protection. In other cases it is longer because we have to wait for the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada to confer the status of historical site on the site in question, it must be protected, and in certain cases, an interpretation program has to be put into place.

Partnerships are an increasingly interesting formula. The people from the Trans Canada Trail, for instance, are among our important partners. Together we prepare the interpretation for various trails. On the federal side, the same thing goes for the National Capital Commission. In the case of several sites in Canada, the design and interpretation are prepared jointly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel.

Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Campbell, my riding has in it the beautiful park of Terra Nova National Park. Could you please pass along to the senior executives nationally that we really desperately need a meeting about our highways and also about the snowmobile trail and an access route for snowmobiles?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Okay.

Is there anyone else?

Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here today. It's great to hear about more people going to our national parks.

I wanted to ask not just about the Learn to Camp program, but about any other ideas you have. For the first time in history we're going to have a new national park very close to Toronto, an urban area. It's very exciting for me because it means that everybody in the GTA, including people in my riding of Oakville, can get in their car or get on a bus on a weekend and within less than an hour be in a national park, as long as there's no accident on the QEW or 401.

What is the status of that? Also, what might you be doing, leading up to 2017, to bring to a national park those people who may have never been to one before? I'm thinking of young people and new Canadians as well.

[Andrew Campbell]

Fortunately, just last month Minister Kent was in Toronto to kick off the consultation process on the Rouge Valley urban national park. We certainly received a lot of ideas. We started with a small group of people who had been highly dedicated to the Rouge Valley over the past 20 or 25 years. All levels of government, I would like to say, and all parties as well, participated, and some fantastic ideas came out of that.

As you said, it's a great park in its nearness to a population, one could say, of 10 million to 12 million people. We really look at it as an opportunity to give Canadians in that area the opportunity to explore not just the Rouge Valley but all of Canada.

Some of the concepts coming out of this include how we can have a centre in that park that deals with our entire country from coast to coast to coast, with all of the national treasures and all of the things people can get out and do, and bring that as a real focal point to the sense of Canada. What's being discussed is it being a real people's park, with a people focus, and one of those people focuses is very much about that sense of Canada or the very essence of being a Canadian.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

It sounds excellent.

I wanted to ask you as well about the Learn to Camp program, because it always struck me that knowing how to camp and what to buy and all that kind of stuff was something you learned in Brownies, Boy Scouts, Venturers or something--or from your parents--or not at all. It would never occur to a lot of new Canadians to go to a Canadian Tire, buy all the stuff, load up their van, and take the family to a park. You need somebody to show you how to do it.

It's a great concept, so I wanted to ask you about its success rate.

At the same time, I want to ask you about a process they used at Expo 67, which was very popular and effective. They had a passport. People would arrive on the grounds, use it to go to various displays, and get it stamped. Have you ever thought of doing something like that for our national parks?

[Andrew Campbell]

To look at both of those questions, I'll take the second one first.

We did have a passport program in the seventies and eighties. It was quite successful. This Xplorers program we developed gives you a guidebook to each of our parks and sites and, as a youth, you can explore. The nice part is that at the end of the day when you come in with your Xplorers book and you've done some of the activities out of that book, we give you a commemorative medallion from that park.

People are now collecting those commemorative medallions. In the first year, we had one great photo of a girl about 12 years old, with her 10 or 11 medallions around her neck, who was saying that she couldn't wait to get more. From that perspective, it was highly successful in that type of engagement.

Also highly successful was the Learn to Camp program. In its first year, we did a pilot at the Halifax Citadel. We had 100 families, primarily new Canadians, sign up within half a day. We probably should have run it for more than 100 Canadians, so we said we would do it the next year. We ran it at national historic sites in about 15 locations. Due to their urban nature, national historic sites are often closer to urban centres. We ran it with a lot of the immigration help groups across the country. In Calgary, for example, the Calgary Catholic Immigration help centre brought the 100 families out to do that with us.

We teach people how to be in the outdoors. We did one where people from Hamilton, Toronto, and Oakville--new Canadians and others--came by bus to Fort George for the weekend. One of those families wrote to us. They ended up buying a tent trailer later in the summer and driving to Cape Breton. They say this will now be their family tradition for the next however many years.

So it pays dividends, and people feel they now have a way to see the country.

I'm sure, Mr. Moore, that they stopped by Fundy on the way out just to make sure they caught a couple of places on the way.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Do I have more time, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have 30 seconds.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Two summers ago, my son Hart, 23, got himself a job on Maligne Lake as a tour guide. They trained him to pilot a boat, and he spent the whole summer in this most beautiful part of Canada. I think it changed him. I think he felt more Canadian. I think he felt more connected to our environment and the land.

I would just like to see more young people with those kinds of opportunities. Do you have any ideas or any programs to help get our young people who are out of high school and ready to become explorers--and Xplorers is the name of a program, I know--see more of our national parks, particularly the ones in the Rocky Mountains?

[Andrew Campbell]

That's an excellent question, Mr. Young. Thank you very much.

We hire about 1,200 students a year at Parks Canada. The student workforce is an important piece of our workforce across the country, but on top of that, we've done a few things. We've been working on a program called “Canada's Greatest Summer Job”. Their primary job is to explore a park--we break ourselves into what are field units, so that's a park and normally a few historic sites within it. Those youths go out and share that experience through our social media channel. A year ago, they did 100 YouTube videos to try to encourage other youth like themselves to have that experience, to come out to work, live, or vacation in those areas. That has been highly successful.

When the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge visited this past year, one of the legacies of their visit was the establishment of the Parks Canada youth ambassadors program. Two youth ambassadors will promote these natural and cultural treasures to the youth of Canada, under the title of ambassador from the duke and duchess. So we're trying to encourage this through social media and other types of channels and also have ambassadors who can do that on our behalf.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Young.

Ms. Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Good morning. Thank you very much for being here.

I'd like to continue on the topic of education. That seems popular today. A few weeks ago, I went to visit a primary school. In my riding, Hochelaga, neither the schools nor the people are very rich. And so I asked the teacher what the federal government could do to help them. She replied that certain federal institutions could be opened up to local schools and offer them free visits.

You gave me an idea earlier when you talked about groups from the 8th grade, I believe, who were going to visit certain institutions.

[Andrew Campbell]

My Parks Canada Pass.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Excuse me?

[Andrew Campbell]

It's a program called My Parks Pass.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

I was wondering if it would be possible to suggest a similar idea, to offer free visits to local schools for the 150th anniversary?

During that same afternoon I went to visit the Régie des installations olympiques, the Olympics Installations Board, and I asked the director whether free activities were being offered to local schools. He replied that he did not have the money to do that. If I'm not mistaken, Parks Canada administers the Biodome, does it not?

[Andrew Campbell]

Yes.

It isn't that easy to offer free admission because of various factors. It is not specifically because of the federal government. Let me give you the example of a school very close to here, attended by students from the Vanier neighbourhood. It is not really a very rich neighbourhood. The director of that school told me that there were three factors that had to be taken into consideration, one being the cost of the Parks Canada visit. From time to time we can offer free visits to school groups that request them. However, there are two other factors that must be considered when students have to leave the school premises. First, there has to be additional insurance for the class, which is quite expensive. Then there is the cost of transportation between the school and the park they are visiting.

We are currently creating a program with Minister Kent, in partnership with the private sector and non-government organizations. This is a program that would offer a free day to classes of students. The simple fact of waiving the cost of a visit to Parks Canada does not solve that problem completely. I think this is an excellent initiative the minister launched a few months ago.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

I agree that the cost of bus transportation generally represents the largest part of the cost of an activity. But for local schools where bus transportation is not required, could we consider this type of local initiative, in the case of the 150th anniversary, for instance?

[Andrew Campbell]

I think for an event such as Canada's 150th anniversary, that could be a part of it.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Have you thought of any other projects for the greater Montreal area, or for Quebec in general?

[Andrew Campbell]

In Montreal, currently, part of our objective is to hold more activities in the Lachine Canal sector, in order to foster a greater sense of belonging to Canada among Montrealers. We have a lot of land close to the Lachine Canal, and of course there are a lot of people who use it for their leisure activities. And so it is important for us to focus on that area to create a connection between the population of Montreal and Canada in general.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Do you already have an idea of how you would like to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Ms. Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Those five minutes go pretty fast.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you very much.

You talked briefly about the Rouge Park. Since it obviously impacts my riding quite substantially, I'll say this. There have been a lot of people for a lot of years who have talked about how important the environment is, and who have talked about how they are advocates for preserving and protecting important national heritage features and sites, but the history of that particular area for farmers has been less than stellar. Those very same people who talk a good game about the environment have been devastating for the class 1 farmers.

That's actually class 1 farmland we're talking about in that area, and the current administration in that area has in the past taken close to 50% of the class 1 farmland out of commission and reforested it, often without consulting with farmers, so I'm happy that Parks Canada is assuming a leadership role in how we will bring about a Rouge Park.

That's more of a comment than anything, because the farmers I represent, with their hundreds of acres of class 1 farmland, some of the best farmland in all of southern Ontario, certainly aren't going to allow a park to be created that doesn't protect class 1 farmland. But I know that we will be working very closely in the coming months to make sure that we protect class 1 farmland within the context of a Rouge Park.

I want to talk about national historical sites and how, in the context of Canada's 150th anniversary, we can perhaps promote them. I'd just like to ask you, on national historical sites, do you connect with local museums in and around the area? If you don't, can we? Can we do that better as we lead up to Canada's 150th birthday? Even just in small areas, like where I'm from just north of Toronto, Stouffville, where we have a number of national historical sites close by.... How do we increase people's knowledge of what a site represents and get people to it? Because you don't have to go that far to actually enjoy one of these places, but I think a lot of times people forget them.

[Andrew Campbell]

Those are both great questions and excellent comments about the Rouge.

I'd like to say a word about the Rouge and the agricultural community. We've met with many of the families now, and with the York Federation of Agriculture, the Durham Federation of Agriculture, and the Ontario Federation of Agriculture. I think we'll have an outstanding interpretative offer in the agricultural world; we will be able to show people something of the history and current state of Canadian farming. They've been a fantastic group of people to work with. I think we're in good hands. There has long been a sustainable agriculture in that area, and we will be able to demonstrate that to Canadians. We will also have some food security in and around Toronto, which is an important element for all of our sustainability. So I'll start with that.

Right now, we are members of what are called the family of national historic sites, which often include small museums in provinces. We give a lot of help from a collections management perspective to many of those smaller national historic sites and smaller museums. We have standards for collections management that many of them use. We have standards for the protection of their places, so that they don't have to buy the same architectural and engineering services. We've essentially given them a blueprint on how to do that. So we're involved in that community all across the country.

I think the final point that you mentioned was just on the “enjoy”. That's what we are trying to promote within national historic sites. We did a piece of research on barriers to why people don't go to parks and national historic sites, and it amazed us that a lot of people didn't feel they had the skill or knowledge to come to a national historic site. We thought we would get that on the national park side, but a lot of Canadians feel that they need some pre-knowledge to come to national historic sites.

I think we have to start emphasizing the fun and enjoyment elements so that people come out. We've done a few pilots in this area. Fort Rodd Hill is an example. We moved visitation from 40,000 people there to almost 70,000 in one year by making more enjoyable things. They now have things such as an historic half-marathon, where you run around the fort and then do an interpretive program. We now do historic weddings there, along with other things that bring some of that fun element back.

You can learn and have fun at the same time. I think this has been an important lesson for us to learn, i.e., that people think the velvet rope stops you from going. Getting in there and being immersed and using things has been a highly important element for making our national historic sites more relevant to Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Calandra.

Did you have as question, Mr. Benskin?

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

There are two things. All of us, because of our constituencies, talk about things that connect to us. The Lachine Canal runs right through my riding of Jeanne-Le Ber, which is southwest Montreal. There's a lot of concern from the population, because they use it a lot, about protecting that area and making sure it's still accessible.

There has been a lot of discussion about schools, connecting with schools. I'd like to take that a step farther and ask you about outreach initiatives to youth programs. There are a number of programs in my riding. Many young people have never set foot outside their community, outside Verdun or Pointe-Saint-Charles, but there's one program where they make an effort to do that.

For the life of me, though, I can't remember the name. It's a youth drop-in centre, but at the heart of it is fly-fishing. On the third floor they have banks where kids can make their own flies. These are kids who, up until then, have never stepped out. They raise money themselves, they sell things, and they makes flies and sell them so that they can put money together and go out to various parks. They don't stay in hotels; they camp out. They have an agreement with Mountain Equipment Co-op, which provides the waders and everything they need. I'm just wondering if any work is being done by Parks Canada to reach out to these types of programs and give them access to parks around Canada.

[Andrew Campbell]

That's an excellent question.

It's an approach that we're actually very proud of, and certainly, again, a very large focus of Minister Kent is on this youth connection. Really, part of our vision as Parks Canada as well has been to carry that youth vision through. Through meeting with a large number of different groups across the country, and we have a few that we are trying to see how.... There are very many youth-oriented groups and there are social advocacy groups on behalf of youth as well.

A few of the things that we have been doing are starting to work. One is a project in Montreal, Vancouver, and downtown Toronto. In partnership with Bienenstock Natural Playgrounds, we're working with people who are green-spacing some of the urban parks. What they do is turn a concrete playground pad into something that looks somewhat natural.

We are working with them to recreate themes of national parks so that those national parks have an immediate connection with that local community. For instance, in Moss Park, which is the Toronto park we're doing, we're going to take the youth group and their youth leaders to the Bruce Peninsula, where they can look around and see the elements they like. We will give them that immersion experience and then they will come back and be the ambassadors in their community.

We're working on programs like that. We're working with other foundations that are working with those types of programs. The Weston Foundation is one of the big partners we're working with, because they fund a large number of those getting outdoors types of programs. We're a big supporter of the Robert Bateman Get to Know program as well, because they partner into school groups and community areas. It's virtually impossible for us to do this alone. A partnership is really the way to move forward on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Benskin.

Thank you, Mr. Campbell, for being here with us today and explaining Parks Canada's contribution to this important study.

We will suspend for a few minutes and switch over to our consideration of supplementary estimates.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We'll resume our meeting.

Today we have with us the Honourable James Moore, Minister of Canadian Heritage, for consideration of the supplementary estimates.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us here today. We look forward to your comments. The floor is yours.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

It is an honour to be here among you to discuss our government's priorities.

I would also like to point out that your review of Canada's 150th anniversary celebrations is very important to the government. As you know, we want this commemoration to reach all of the regions through its pan-Canadian events and themes that should involve all of the regions of Canada. Your study of this topic is very important. I want to wish you good luck in your review of this project.

I'm here today to discuss with you funding my department is seeking from the Parliament of Canada through the supplementary estimates that will enable us to implement a number of our government's key priorities for Canadians.

With me today are Daniel Jean, deputy minister of Canadian Heritage, and Robert Hertzog, director general of the financial management branch.

In the 2011-12 supplementary estimates (B), we are asking Parliament to approve $165.9 million in additional funding: $8 million in operating expenses, and $157.9 million in grants and contributions. The funds that we're seeking will support programs in various sectors of Canadian society.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to review a few of what I consider to be key initiatives that are addressed in supplementary estimates (B), for which we are seeking the approval of Parliament.

I've already announced our government's plans for commemorating the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, a war that was a defining event in Canada's history, paving the way for Confederation. The $4.8 million in additional funds will allow us to implement the commemorative projects and events that we have planned, and to support community-based activities across the country.

Over the next three years, our government plans to invest significant funds to increase Canadians' awareness of this defining event in our shared history. These funds will go to pan-Canadian educational campaigns, which will include a national documentary, a travelling museum exhibit, and the naming of October as the month of the commemoration of the War of 1812.

We will support over 100 local events, festivals, and re-enactments across the country, and we're investing in enhanced programming and making significant improvements at key War of 1812 national historic battle sites. We're going to have a permanent War of 1812 monument here in Ottawa, and we're going to have recognition of our Canadian Forces regiments in 1812 ceremonies.

For Sport Canada's hosting program, we are budgeting an increase of $13.4 million. This amount is part of the government's commitment to fund capital projects for the 2015 Pan American and Parapan American Games in Toronto. With the recent conclusion of the 2011 Pan American and Parapan American Games, from which our talented athletes brought home a total of 182 medals, attention is now focused on Toronto as the next host of the games in 2015. As a proud partner in the games, the government will invest up to $500 million through Sport Canada's hosting program. Canada is a proud sport nation with a fantastic sporting tradition, and we are committed to ensuring that our athletes can compete with the world's best.

Sport Canada's hosting program provides funding to help Canadian communities and national sport organizations host world-class international events, such as the Pan American and Parapan American Games. This funding also allows our athletes to compete on home soil, which brings countless benefits to the hosting communities and promotes Canada abroad.

The $100 million in funds that we are also requesting in these estimates are funds for the Canada Media Fund. As you know, the Canada Media Fund helps to ensure that Canadian choices continue to be available on television and on other digital platforms.

The Government of Canada support for Canadian programming has a multiplier effect. The $134 million that we invest in the Canada Media Fund creates an additional—on top of that government investment—$200 million worth of production activity. This leads to 7,000 production jobs across the country and 600 hours of programming available on multiple platforms. In 2010-11, the Canada Media Fund, which combines both the public and the private investments, invested $337 million in Canadian content creation, generating over 2,400 hours of new Canadian programming.

The $15 million in the supplementary funds that we're seeking for the Canada Periodical Fund will support and encourage the creation of Canadian magazines and non-daily newspapers, and help to ensure that Canadians have access to them.

One example of how this fund works is the Newsstand Marketing Project that we helped fund last year. Magazines Canada partnered with regional magazine associations and retailers across the country to increase the presence, selection, and sales of English- and French-Canadian magazines at major and independent newsstands. The plan offers a free digital magazine with the purchase of a single copy of any participating magazine. This plan has not only increased single-copy sales of Canadian magazines, but also increased the profile of small- and medium-sized Canadian magazines in large retail outlets.

Finally, our proposed transfers to the Canada Council for the Arts and the National Arts Centre—$127,000 and $150,000 respectively—will, among other things, support French-language theatre in Canada.

Mr. Chair, while we are seeking these funds, I believe we have shown ourselves to be good stewards of public funds. Despite fiscal restraint, we have accomplished a great deal, and we will continue to manage our budget carefully.

Since I arrived at Heritage Canada, the department has launched an initiative to modernize its operations and find innovative solutions to financial challenges in order to better serve Canadians. We implemented reductions while minimizing the impact on services and programming to Canadians. We have decreased operational spending of the department by 25% since 2009-2010 and have eliminated 445 full-time positions. This means more money directed into the hands of artists and creators, and less money spent on the bureaucracy here in Ottawa. This is good news for the cultural community. My department is smaller, but our investments in culture have increased because of these efforts.

During the recession we were the only country in the G8 not to decrease, not to maintain, but to increase funding to arts and culture. We know that arts and culture play a vital role in the lives of Canadians and in the development of communities throughout the country. We know that culture and heritage help to build strong communities, while also contributing to the economy. Canadian culture represents $46 billion of our gross domestic product. The cultural sector employs some 630,000 people—which means that 4% of all Canadian jobs come from culture.

Our government has clearly shown that we value arts, culture, and Canada's creative economy. We have supported celebrations, concerts, community events, and festivals across the country. And we renewed our five-year funding programs, including those for music, books, and periodicals.

As we modernized our cultural support programs, we adapted them to the digital age, and this change is now bearing fruit. For example, the Experimental Stream of the Canada Media Fund—an innovative public-private partnership—is pushing the boundaries of media consumption for Canadians and building a stronger, ground-breaking cultural industry. Through this fund, we invested $1 million in a project to develop a console game called Papo & Yo. Created by the Montreal-based indie production company Rezolution Pictures, its market release is planned for early 2012. Yet, already, this truly unique game has been nominated for 20 industry awards and has won 6, including 3 top awards at the Electronic Entertainment Expo held in Los Angeles in June. This is but one success story of many.

The highlight of this year for my department was the recent visit of Their Royal Highnesses The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. The event was tremendously successful, bringing Canadians together across the country. Our website, YouTube videos, and iPhone and BlackBerry apps served as excellent examples of how modern technology can help involve Canadians, especially youth, in events of national significance.

Plans have already begun for celebrating Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II's Diamond Jubilee in 2012. I have already announced the community funding program to support local celebrations and projects and a mobile application to provide information on this key event in our history. We will soon unveil the commemorative medal program, a website, and a social media program.

This historical anniversary is one of many that we will commemorate on the road to 2017—Canada's 150th anniversary.

As I mentioned in my last appearance, we have begun plans and preparations for celebrating this important landmark in our country's history, as well as many of the anniversaries that will be leading up to it. I continue to follow your study, which will be integral in developing our plans for this monumental celebration.

Because we value our heritage and we want to preserve it for generations to come, we again invested over $400,000 this year to fund film acquisition or preservation activities by Library and Archives Canada under the Canadian feature film policy.

In addition, our Canadian Heritage Information Network invested nearly $1.8 million in the development of original online heritage content by museums of all sizes and disciplines. As a result, 51 new online exhibitions will be added to the virtual museum of Canada.

In the area of official languages, we've signed agreements for four provinces to support French language cultural production and presentations.

Also, over the past few years, our investments with respect to education have resulted in new community spaces in 33 schools, 40 new community schools, and 14 community learning centres. There has also been a 10% overall increase in immersion registration by kids.

I'm proud to say that through the endowment incentives program, which leverages private sector donations to arts organizations, our government, since 2006, has provided over $78 million to support endowment funds in Canada, while the private sector has provided over $120 million, for a total of $198 million leveraged in investments in arts and cultural organizations by having a partnership between the Government of Canada and the private sector.

Through the Canada cultural spaces fund, we have funded 609 cultural infrastructure projects in 239 communities across Canada, for a total of approximately $199.4 million.

The Canada arts training fund supports 39 national training schools that provide the highest calibre of artistic training to Canada's most promising artists in a range of disciplines such as ballet, contemporary dance, theatre, and music. Our annual investment in national training institutions is $22.7 million.

I believe my department can be proud of its numerous achievements over the past year. With the approval of the budget before you, we will pursue our efforts on several fronts to show our continued support and commitment to the arts, to culture, to sport, to history, and to heritage.

I will be pleased to work with you on making sure that these projects are fulfilled successfully, and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you for your presentation.

Now we'll move to questions and answers.

Mr. Young is first.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming here today and for your presentation.

You talked about the plan for commemorating the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 and the $4.8 million in additional funds that have been put aside for it, including plans for increasing Canadians' awareness of the event. Now, what we've heard on this committee is that in seven of ten provinces, students in high school don't have to study any history or complete any history course in order to graduate.

Perhaps you could expand on why it is important that Canadians, especially young Canadians, be educated about this important historical event?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

There are not great numbers of events pre-Confederation that are pan-Canadian in consequence. A number of other countries, particularly that south of the border, have a large number of events that are constantly celebrated. Young Americans are reminded of those events all the time. This happens in countries around the world as well. In Canada, we don't have many large events.

Without the War of 1812, the French fact in North America is not protected. Without the War of 1812, aboriginal Canadians would have suffered the same fate as American Indians. Without the War of 1812, Canada's territorial integrity would not be defined relative to the United States. Without the War of 1812, you don't have an expression of Canadian identity that sowed the seeds for Confederation in 1867, after the Quebec and Charlottetown conferences.

So it was the beginning of the beginning of the greatest country in the world: it's very important.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

You also mentioned that the government will be funding over 100 local events, festivals, and re-enactments across the country. Will these events take a top-down approach or are we hoping to encourage individuals or groups to take the lead? If it's the latter, what would be the best way for individuals to get involved or to apply for funding?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

There have been some comments in the news, by the way, that the government is spending all this money on the War of 1812 but we have other things that have needs. All the money we're spending on the War of 1812 and the commemoration thereof is from existing Government of Canada funds.

Whether it's the Canada arts presentation fund, the building communities through arts and heritage program, or the Canada cultural spaces fund, what we've done is take existing funds and assess what we expect the demand will be from grassroots organizations across the country. We had a number that we thought would be the proportionate number of asks.

Then, of course, you triage those asks and you ask how many are really central to the goal of commemorating the War of 1812. Then you try to divide how much of that money is going to be required for physical infrastructure, for re-enactments, for educational initiatives, and so on. You come up with a ballpark number and then you have to divide it.

We've taken existing Government of Canada programs and have fenced off an amount of money in each of them for applications for funding for the War of 1812. We're not doing extra funding for the War of 1812 as opposed to doing extra funding for other things; we've taken existing funding, and we've fenced it off for the demand.

Local organizations that are requesting funding for the War of 1812 should certainly contact their members of Parliament, contact me directly, or contact the department. In each of those funding envelopes, there are funds reserved.

I say this all the time, by the way, to organizations that may be here, that may have their representatives here, or that may be paying attention to this conversation: contact the Department of Canadian Heritage. Contact us before you apply for funding. This isn't just within the context of 1812. Contact the department before you apply for funding so that you can design your event, your commemoration, and your plans in concert with existing Government of Canada funding envelopes so they can move forward together. Don't build an event and hope that the Government of Canada.... Moving the machinery of government sometimes is like turning a battleship around. The smarter thing to do is to work with us from the beginning so you can develop your event so that it qualifies for funds as you move forward.

If people are planning specific events for the War of 1812, I would encourage them to contact the Department of Canadian Heritage. We will sit them down with an official from the department and will work through their application from the beginning.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

The idea for a permanent monument to the War of 1812 is a terrific idea. Are you able to tell us more about it now, such as where it may be located in Ottawa and who will design it and those kinds of things?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Not quite yet. We have two locations we're looking at. One is on Parliament Hill; one is just off Parliament Hill. I can't say exactly where, because there are some financial implications related to where we're looking.

But we do want it to be prominent. We want it to be on the Hill. We want it to be within walking distance of not only members of Parliament and Parliament Hill staffers, but for visiting tourists, who come to Parliament Hill, principally, and other events satellite around that. To have a direct connection to Parliament is important, so right on Parliament Hill or right near Parliament Hill is what we're looking at.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

You talked a lot about direct and indirect funding of arts and culture. What other steps has the government taken--Canadian Heritage specifically--to ensure that artists and the creative community as a whole continue to thrive? For example, how have our cultural exports fared?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Cultural exports have fared very well. I gave a speech on this just the other day. The numbers escape me now, but cultural exports I know have gone up, in part because of our investments in the Canada Council for the Arts. As you know, we have increased funding to the Canada Council for the Arts by 20%. It is up to $181 million per year.

It's not a small thing to say that our government is the only government in the G-8 that decided not to cut, not to maintain, but to increase funding for arts and culture. In my judgment, the best mechanism by which the government can and should continue to fund culture is through the Canada Council for the Arts, a crown corporation set up by Prime Minister St. Laurent, that is independent and at arm's length from the government.

As Sheila Fraser said when she examined the Canada Council, if every government department, agency, and crown had the same kind of exhaustive peer-review process and thorough evaluation of the way they spend money, she wouldn't have a job. Not only do they have integrity in the way they handle taxpayers' money, but they're seen by the cultural communities in this country as an organization that does a fantastic job of reaching out and ensuring that funds get to diverse programs and projects. That includes supporting artists in their efforts abroad.

As you know, going back to the 2008 campaign, our government ended, for example, the trade routes program. The trade routes program was a $7-million program. The problem was that it cost $5 million to deliver $2 million worth of benefits. It's not quite an exchange we look for or that I think taxpayers look for in a government program, so we ended that program. We didn't kill the money. We transferred the money to the Canada Council. The Canada Council has, if memory serves, 11 or 12 programs directly related to aiding artists in their endeavours to engage markets abroad.

We continue to support artists. The best way to do it is through the Canada Council. The Government of Canada tried it and our exchange rate was $5 million to $2 million, and that was not quite the exchange rate we were looking for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Young.

Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you for your work and thank you for appearing here.

I've had first-hand experience and knowledge of the Canada Council and I agree that it's definitely a model program.

I'm going to switch over to getting some clarification or information on CBC. Yearly we see the adjustment of $60 million in supplementary funding to the CBC. I was wondering if you could clarify what that's targeted toward.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Sure. Well, as you'll remember, the Liberals in the 1990s cut the CBC by about $400 million and there was obviously a pretty significant backlash to that. The heritage minister of the day, Sheila Copps, in response to the push-back they got for cutting the CBC....

As a matter of fact, the parliamentary committee at the time was implicated in the consideration of the impact of those cuts. What was designed and implemented for the first time in 2001...actually, excuse me, 20 years ago. The first year was 2001--sorry--but it was designed prior to that. What was designed and implemented was this $60-million programming fund to the CBC, and that money goes directly to programming. That's always been a sunsetter, though. It's up for renewal every single year in every single budget.

So those who argue about the $60 million.... Keep in mind that the CBC receives $1.134 billion per year. Sixty million dollars is not a small amount of money; it's a lot of money. But within the overall context of the enterprise that is Canada's public broadcaster, the $60 million and the projects it funds, that money can be supported and funded through A-base funding to the CBC. So there's a sort of mythology, I think, built up around that $60 million fund, as though it's untouchable and as though to touch that would have an impact on the CBC.

Very often, as you know, when the CBC has come before this very committee, there has been talk about having only straight A-base funding so that the CBC doesn't have to worry every single year as to whether or not a government is not going to renew the $60 million, whether it's a Liberal government or a Conservative government, and so they could have consistent steady funding for multiple years. That's part of the consideration that we have in working with the CBC about what's in the taxpayers' best interests and also what's in the best interests of the public broadcaster for a consistent funding envelope for multiple years.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

That basically answered my second question, so thank you for anticipating that.

With the anticipated 5% or 10% cuts, would this $60 million be affected by that? That goes directly to programming, as I understand it. Is that right?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, but.... The question is about the CBC.... This is not an evasion, but I'm trying set up the way in which we're thinking about funding for the CBC. Their request has always been--always--steady funding, stable funding, and predictable funding. The CBC's funding over years could be at different levels, but what they most want is a plan that they can embrace and have predictable funding for.

As you know, they have their plan for 2015. I've supported that plan, the 2015 plan. The three principle elements of the 2015 plan that I think need to be supported and embraced by Canadians are these.

One is the continued transition to digital technology, embracing digital technology, getting things.... As you know, as a French-speaking Canadian from British Columbia, I want to listen to CBC radio out of Drummondville. I want to know what's happening in Quebec City.

Without the CBC, there's no French-language radio in British Columbia. I have four nieces, all of whom are in French-immersion schooling. My sister is a French teacher in British Columbia: how do they get French content for the classroom so they can try to get kids thinking about how French is used in everyday life? It's through the CBC. So that component is essential. The way that you do that, going forward, is through digital technology. The digital component of the 2015 plan is essential and smart and, by the way, saves taxpayers millions of dollars.

The second component is making the CBC, from top to bottom, all-Canadian: Canadian producers, creators, screenwriters, actors, and performers have all wanted that. They want Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune off the air at CBC. The 2015 plan makes the CBC all-Canadian.

The third thing is the that CBC, in the 2015 plan, stays in the regions rather than having a massive footprint in downtown Toronto and Montreal and even a large footprint in Vancouver. It's to get out into the regions to connect Canadians and to stay in the regions. That's essential.

Those are the three central plans of the 2015 plan.

This is my roundabout way of getting to your point. The way we're thinking about it is that the CBC, through their board of directors, has approved their 2015 plan. This is a plan that we support and have been pushing for and hoping that the CBC would implement for a long time. It is: staying in regions; digital technology; and protecting their mandate to ensure that it's all-Canadian programming.

Those are the three things that we wanted the CBC to do. They've done it with their 2015 plan. Now that they have their 2015 plan, the question is, how much money do they need to implement that plan? And in the budget, they will have enough funding to deliver that plan.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

Whatever time I have left, I'll pass on to Pierre.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Moore, you started your presentation by stressing the importance of Canada's 150th celebrations. As I went through the estimates, I saw nothing specific for the 150th anniversary.

Will an amount eventually be allocated to an ad hoc committee for the 150th celebrations?

In light of all the issues that fall under your department and under this committee, it is unacceptable that all we have been talking about for the past seven months is Canada's 150th anniversary celebrations.

Is it possible that an amount will be allocated to strike an ad hoc committee to work on the 150th anniversary celebrations? Those celebrations are very important, but they have completely taken over this committee's agenda.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm not sure if an ad hoc committee is the best way to go. You have to understand that the 150th anniversary will be celebrated in five and a half years. We have a lot of time to come up with programming for all of Canada to include all the regions.

The committee is studying this and I hope that we will have a report or a list of recommendations. Specific events or even ideas for programming or investments might help us.

I feel that if we were to specifically say that these are the exact amounts and here is a committee... If the government were to prejudge the committee's work, you would probably say that the government is arrogant and that it has no respect for the efforts of the committee members. That's not what we want.

In all honesty, we want Canadians in 2017 to see the programming across Canada and say that the plan is just right for Canada, that it is not to the right or to the left, that it is far from politics, ideology, games and bickering.

That is why we want a careful and sensible study from you.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Do you want us to just talk about that?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

It's up to you.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

With a Conservative majority in the committee, it is more difficult.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I am not a member on your committee, but you can decide to study whatever you want. If you want to do a study on the Canada Council for the Arts or the national anthem, it is your business.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Would that be useful?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You decide.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

Just to quickly follow Mr. Benskin's intervention, when you consider in your mind the expenditure review question—5% to 10%—is that solely on an A-base budget scenario?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What we're trying to do, as you know, is find $4 billion in savings across the government, and these are not savings of.... The sunsetters have to be included if sunsetters have been considered over a long period of time, but the idea is that over time the permanent cost of government needs to be reduced.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Right, so in your mind, the sunsetters then will obviously be a part of that. Because when I hear about 5% to 10% cuts--or efficiencies, if you want to call them that—you're talking about A-base alone—

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You're just talking about the total envelope?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The total envelope.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That could include the $60 million...?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

If some things.... Take, for example... We have some youth programs that have been sunsetting youth programs for 34 years: are they A-base or sunsetters? Well, technically they're sunsetters, but they are A-base because—

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Because they've behaved as such. I get that.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, so to exclude them because they happen to be sunsetters misses the point of a lot of funds that may be spent in ways that are not efficient.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay.

I quickly have to move on, because I have about eight questions here.

On the second one, you just addressed the part on the War of 1812 and the funding for that. This is not a new funding envelope whatsoever, so you're talking about how each and every individual silo of funding mechanisms could be used for 1812. Doesn't that put a strain on the other programs? For some of these programs that you fund, it's on an ongoing basis. “Sunsetter” is not the right term for them, but you get the idea. Each and every year, some of these festivals.... Obviously they're going to be hit by that.

I mean, you're talking about a small area of the country that's going to celebrate the War of 1812. Without their own funding mechanism, that's going to put a strain on the whole system.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

How's that?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Well, it may for some, but there is always annually a competition for dollars--for example, in BCAH--the building communities through arts and heritage fund--or the cultural spaces fund. Some of this funding, by the way, is not just through the Department of Canadian Heritage. For fitting up the forts, it's through Environment Canada, so--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay. But what about money...?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Will there be a squeeze? Sure. But every year, there's always a competition for taxpayers' dollars. There always is--

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

By the way, there is no limit to the asks and the requests.

So there always is.... But I can tell you that there is a massive demand. There would have been a massive demand for these funds regardless, from the pressure.... But the fact that we've fenced off some specific programming, and that I've made sure the department makes sure there's funding available for specifically the War of 1812, and that they don't get pushed out, is important.

What's equally important is the second point you referenced right there. In each of these funds—in all of them—that will be funding the War of 1812 things, there is always a national scope to them. As you say, all this money isn't just going to get dumped into the Niagara Peninsula. This money is available across the country.

So as opposed to just having a program that funds the War of 1812.... Because the large capital projects are principally in southwestern Ontario, that would just suck up all the funds to begin with. But by putting them inside of the envelope of existing Government of Canada funds, now they fall under the formula that exists for all Government of Canada funds, which means they have to be dispersed across the country--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Yes, but you--

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

--which is good for your constituents and mine.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But let's be honest.

Let's be honest: there is no great demand in some parts of the country, certainly, or there is none. There may be in mine because the Royal Newfoundland Regiment was involved, but in some areas, there is not. It just seems to me that without a specific funding envelope, they are going to put a strain across all these festivals and events that would not get funding. I don't want to dwell on the issue, but let's take a look at the monument that's coming here in Ottawa. Where is that coming from?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

That comes from funding within our department for monuments and celebrations, and also, through Parks Canada.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

So who's covering it? You or Parks Canada?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Both.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

And what program in Heritage is it coming from?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What exactly.... It's through the celebrations and commemorations.

[A voice]

In the budget there was...[Inaudible--Editor]

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

One-off funding in the budget for building the monument, but we--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay, so that's a one-off with the budget--

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

--also had one-off funding in the budget for the Holocaust memorial.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's not part of the funding envelope--

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No, that's specifically for the monument, but we also had funding in Ottawa for the Holocaust memorial. So that's what it falls under.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You mentioned the positions that were cut--I think in excess of 400--within the department. You talked about slimming down bureaucracy, which provides more money to the cultural organizations, but did that money go to cultural organizations or is that just money cut, period?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes: if you look at the estimates that we're debating today, you'll see that support in funding contributions has gone up. I say this, and I've said this to every.... For all the organizations that have come before this committee, that have met with you, as the heritage critic, and now who have met with me, I say this to every single organization that I've met with: when we deliver our budget next year, the organization that gets hit the most is mine, my department.

We will have the biggest cut in my department, in the operation of my department, more than anybody else, in order to protect the integrity of the Canada Council, our national museums, and festivals across the country. We will lead by example. The largest reduction in spending will be in my department.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Can I get to...?

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have a minute and a half.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I'd love to pick up on that point, but maybe I'll get another round.

I met with university teachers--the CAUT, to be particular--and they had some concerns about Library and Archives Canada. Their concern about the fragmentation of collections resulting from decentralization is one point. They wanted to restore full acquisition and the re-establishment of special archivist positions and that sort of thing. They seem to be deeply concerned and are putting on a big campaign. I think they have some valid points about how the administration of this is working. I'm wondering if you had a comment on that.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

As you know, Library and Archives Canada is undergoing a pretty significant transformation. They want to make things as digital and as available as possible. I'm sure Daniel Caron would be more than pleased to come here and talk to you specifically about what it is they have in mind.

But I would also say as well that some of the decentralization they're doing is excellent. I'll give you an example of one project that is critical.

I think we have some media here, but that's okay.

For example, they have a warehouse in Burnaby, British Columbia. It's not accessible to the public, but as a result of the decentralization and making facilities more available across the country, Terry Fox's entire physical legacy--the van, his running shoes, his posters, everything--that was being lost and destroyed...because we have a decentralization of Library and Archives in the way in which they collect and protect our physical history, we have more capacity to reach beyond the national capital--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

So you're saying that--

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

--to protect our physical footprint.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

So their concerns are really not valid...? Do you think they haven't looked into it enough? Do you think they are being alarmist about the decentralization issue?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No. Those aren't the words I said, but--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I said them; that's why I'm asking.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I know you're a good guy and you're not trying to put words in my mouth.

I wouldn't say that. They have legitimate concerns. But I would say, in the simplest way, that there are two sides to every story, and there are great benefits to what Library and Archives is doing right now. If you want to really dig into the details, Daniel Caron would be glad to come and chat with you about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Oh, I'm done...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

What's that?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I'm done?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You're overdone.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Gill.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for taking the time and being with us here today.

I have a couple of questions about the Pan American Games. You talked about how the 2015 Pan and Parapan American Games will be coming to southern Ontario and how the government will invest up to $500 million. How do you think that investment, coupled with the fact that Canadian athletes did so well in Mexico and will no doubt continue to exceed expectations in London 2012, will help boost the economy and create jobs?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Certainly there is the immediate impact of it as well. The infrastructure investments are $386 million. That's real-time jobs right here, right now, for those who are going to be upgrading and helping those facilities.

We also have $65 million, which will be a legacy after the games for high-performance and local athletes. This is the thing as well that I know Minister Gosal will be glad to come and talk to you about: the 2010 Olympics, the post-2010 Olympics, the Pan Am Games, and the post-Pan Am Games and the lessons we've learned. We obviously want to make sure our athletes do incredibly well on the national and international stage and continue to perform brilliantly.

But a lot of this is lost if we don't have a trailer effect that brings kids up; what we want to do is make sure that kids participate in sport and have access to athletic facilities, institutes, organizations, and opportunities. So part of the Pan Am and Parapan Am Games and the legacy projects for that are going to be focused essentially on kids as well. Those are some of the legacy projects that are at work, and the economic benefits will express themselves really quite clearly.

The bid for the Pan Am and Parapan Am Games, as you know, is a Toronto bid, but it really is an Ontario bid, and it kicks all through southwestern Ontario. The benefits will be widespread and well received. If it's proportionately anything like what we experienced in my hometown with the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games, I think Ontarians will be very happy with the investment and the outcome of the games.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you.

You also mentioned that the Sport Canada hosting program allows our athletes to compete on home soil, brings countless benefits to host communities, and promotes Canada abroad.

Can you please expand on that?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Sure. The performance of our athletes is obviously something we have often used as the benchmark as to how successful the games are, but we also want to be very proud. We also want to find the next generation of brilliant athletes like Jennifer Heil and Alexandre Bilodeau; we want to find those great athletes who will be role models for kids in the future.

So supporting our athletes is something that's been asked for, supported by our government, and we're very proud of our investment. Those are some things....

I'm not sure, Daniel, if you want to talk specifically about the sports hosting program.

[Daniel Jean, Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

With $200 million invested in sport every year, we are the largest contributor to sport in Canada.

As the minister said, what it allows us to do with something like the hosting program is to bring in some of the big competitions, whether they are international, whether it's about the junior athletes, to give them a chance to compete against the best, to prepare for the future, and to at the same time encourage youth to participate but also to become elite athletes.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you.

I have another question for the minister.

Minister, can you talk a bit about what we're doing to commemorate the Queen's diamond jubilee, please?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I can. We have.... I'm sorry, I'm just doing a very quick mental check on what we've already announced publicly versus what we're going to be announcing publicly. I don't want to step on myself.

In 2001 when I was a member of Parliament, we had golden jubilee medals for Her Majesty's golden jubilee. We have a diamond jubilee medal program as well. We have an event--as a matter of fact, next week--where we'll be stamping the very first medal for the Queen's diamond jubilee. We also have events across the country to commemorate this incredible and remarkable 60-year achievement of Canada's Queen. Just yesterday, I signed off on the artwork for some posters and some educational materials that will be going across the country into schools, and we'll be having events across the country.

We had the visit of the Prince of Wales in December 2009, we had the visit of Her Majesty in 2010, and we had the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge in Canada last year. As someone who has had the incredible honour and privilege of being able to host each of these visits, and to be with them on each of their visits, I will say that the response of Canadians has really been very impressive. In spite of the…. I don't want to be too aggressive in this shot, but the stereotypical media coverage of how Quebec would react or how certain communities would react has just simply not been realized. The royal family has been welcomed with open arms in Quebec City, in Montreal, and in all parts of this country, and I think t Her Majesty's diamond jubilee next year will be another one of the events.

This is why I think it's important.... As the NDP mentioned, 2017 is important, but the road to 2017 is equally important. We have the anniversary of the Charlottetown conference, the anniversary of the Quebec conference, Sir John A. Macdonald's 200th birthday, George-Étienne Cartier's 200th birthday, and the diamond jubilee moment for Her Majesty across the country that will lead up to 2017. These are moments, not the least of which is the War of 1812, that we can't miss as a country, because we are a young country and we do have shared experiences that are in fact quite few and far between. To have events that are pan-Canadian in consequence, that every Canadian can take ownership in and feel connected to one another in, is something that is very important.

We have an obligation as a government, and all governments have an obligation--it doesn't matter if it's a Conservative, NDP, or Liberal government, every government has an obligation—to try to leave this country more united than we found it. This is a country that has always been full of cleavages and tensions regionally across this country, and we need to make sure that we seize these moments so we can feel closer to one another.

As I often remind people, Canada is the second-largest country in the world in territory and the 36th-largest in population. Because of the distance between each of us in our communities, when we have these moments we need to make sure we seize them, so that Canadians can feel part of a Canadian family.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you very much.

How much time do I have, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have 10 seconds.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

So I'll give up.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Gill.

Ms. Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Good morning and welcome, Mr. Minister.

I would like to ask you a few questions about official languages.

Could you give us an idea of the amount allocated to the official languages in the 2012 roadmap?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The ballpark figure is $60 million.

You also have to understand that there are a number of budget envelopes. Our roadmap for official languages includes $1.1 billion over five years.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Sorry?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The amount is $1.1 billion over five years. So 70% of the amounts are split between departments and are included in the government's supplementary estimates (A).

Also, there is $264 million on top of that investment. So roughly $60 million are invested annually.

It is a five-year agreement. We must also point out that the agreement was not affected by the economic crisis any more than it was affected by the government's decisions to try and save money in the past.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Is it not indexed?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm sorry?

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Is the five-year agreement not indexed?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No. It's a five-year agreement.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Can this agreement be renewed after 2013?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We'll see. It is certainly very important to protect Canada's official languages.

But, like any initiative or undertaking of this kind—since making an investment over five years really is a huge government-wide undertaking—there are some things that we will probably not do again because we did not get the expected results.

At the same time, some things turned out really well and we might renew them or even double them. We'll see.

A study on the roadmap and its impact on the regions is currently underway in both the House and the Senate Standing Committee on Official Languages.

At the Department of Canadian Heritage, we are also doing studies to see what we have been successful with and which objectives have not been reached.

So on the question of whether there will be another road map for official languages, there will always be strong investment into official languages, but a third road map.... Because the first one was under the Liberals, right, from 2003 to 2008? With our government, it was from 2008 to 2013, so five years pour les deux langues officielles.

So a third road map.... We'll see what successes and what missed opportunities we had with our existing road map and go from there.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

I am going to share my time with Mr. Cash.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much.

I want to talk a little bit about the Canada Media Fund. We've been talking about Canada 150 and discussing some of Canada's internationally recognized icons and exports. One of them is documentary films.

A number of documentary filmmakers have spoken to me. I know that some have spoken to the ministry about problems for documentary filmmakers in meeting the new requirements of the Canada Media Fund. It seems to me that with Canada 150 we're actually making it harder for documentary filmmakers, who would actually be able to give voice to the aspirations of our country at 150 years old. There seems to be a strange dichotomy in the department. I want you to speak to this issue. As you know, there are issues around documentary filmmakers being able to meet the requirements of the digital component of the fund.

Also, can you speak to requirements around the audience base for the work? We know that this requirement doesn't really cross over into many stand-alone documentaries, yet these are the kinds of things for which Canada has become known internationally; we're not known internationally for our documentary series on what we now call reality TV.

I'd like you to speak to this issue around documentary films first.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Sure. As you know, the Canada Media Fund is now in its third year since we created it. I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to remind this House as well that part of these estimates in the budget we're passing take in the Canada Media Fund.

Scott and I were just talking a minute ago about sunsetters. The Canada Media Fund used to be a sunsetter. It's not anymore. It is an A-base investment of the government. It's a permanent investment. With regard to that, the good news for everybody, including documentary filmmakers, is that we can have an ongoing debate about how best to make that investment work for all Canadians, including documentary filmmakers.

The Canada Media Fund has multiple strains of funding, including an experimental stream. The experimental stream goes to things like video games, kids' programming, and stuff that's purely digital. It's up to the Canada Media Fund to make sure they have funds available to documentary filmmakers.

The Canada Media Fund operates independently and at arm's length from the government; we have two members of the board. It's a five-person board. It's their responsibility to make sure they have funds available. If people are feeling pressure in one year versus another, then they should change the criteria to make sure that funds are available. As you say, documentaries are a unique aspect of Canada's film universe, because they're not often films that have a massive opening weekend and a great first month or month and a half in which they make all their money and then it tapers off from there. Documentaries float around for decades and decades. Their economic benefit shouldn't have to be realized in the first three months following release in order to demonstrate their worth.

Documentaries are incredible teaching tools. I graduated from high school in 1994. I remember watching documentaries from the 1960s that had the same value in 1994 that they had in the 1960s. The importance of documentaries for our cultural institutions, for learning, and for telling Canadian stories to one another is critical. If Telefilm isn't helping to support, if the NFB isn't there--and the NFB, by the way, does deserve a great deal of credit for the way in which it has promoted and pushed documentaries digitally--and if the CMF needs to have some changes to the criteria we've imposed on them, the transfer of $100 million per year, then that's certainly something we can consider as a government.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Cash.

Mr. Hillyer.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I want to talk about funding for the arts a little more. You talked about the Canada Media Fund and working with the Montreal-based company Resolution Pictures. You mentioned a couple of times that we're the only G-8 country that not only did not decrease our funding to the arts but actually increased funding to arts and culture. For a Conservative government to do that in tough economic times, there must be some sort of economic reason. Can you talk about how financial support for arts and culture actually helps with economic growth?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Sure: I'll give you a couple of examples from the economic action plan.

The cultural spaces fund is one of the programs in my department that I referenced earlier. They have an annual budget of $30 million a year just for cultural infrastructure for the entire country. The average contribution from that fund is about $150,000 per year. Typically, those funds go to things like replacing seats in a theatre.

Evergreen Cultural Centre in Coquitlam, B.C., had matching funds, and for $35,000, I think it was, they replaced all the seats in their theatre. It was a pretty badly built theatre, actually, when it was first built; it's only been up and running for about eight years. They replaced the seats. It was originally a static theatre presentation opportunity, but because they replaced the seats, they now can have dinner theatre. They can have shows. They could do performing arts and they could have musical performances, or they could open it up and do improv for kids when student groups come through. They've taken what was a static performing centre and made it much more dynamic, and the opportunity for more presentations has gone through the roof.

We also do things like put in fire suppression equipment in old theatres. The Imperial Theatre in New Brunswick had a leaking building envelope, so for about I think $200,000 we fixed that to maintain the integrity of the structure of that grand old theatre of Canadian culture.

In the economic action plan, we doubled that fund of $30 million per year to $60 million over the course of the economic action plan, and we of course saw requests flood in.

Keep in mind as well that a lot of our theatres, like a lot of our rinks and a lot of our other infrastructure, were built for the centennial. This is, by the way, going back to the beginning, part of your study about Canada's 150th birthday. We have a lot of theatres across this country--small theatres, community theatres--that were built as part of Canada's centennial in 1967, and a lot of them need support, rebuilding, and up-fitting. They need to replace copper pipes, to put in state-of-the-art technology, and to get rid of asbestos and things like that. So we provide funding for that.

Another program we had-- to go specifically to your question, Jim, about the economic bang for the buck--was the marquee tourism program, which supported large-scale events and festivals that bring in thousands and thousands of visitors to our big centres. The Calgary Stampede, the PNE in Vancouver, and the Pride festival in Toronto are large marquee events that bring in thousands of visitors and millions of dollars in economic activities to our cities all across the country. Those events that receive those funds, like Luminato, were very appreciative of those funds, which helped a lot of events that were going to have very difficult years in 2008, 2009, and 2010 have some of their best years ever.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I want to pass my time on to Mr. Calandra.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We should have maybe 30 seconds and then we can get to the vote.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Okay.

Minister, I'll summarize by saying this. I was somewhat surprised and disappointed by the vice-chair's comments on this committee.

We've of course dealt with the Bay of Fundy. We've dealt with hearing from the CBC. In our study of Canada's 150th anniversary, we've heard from the Stratford Festival and we've heard from the Banff Centre. We've heard from first nations. We've heard from Just for Laughs. We've heard from museums. We've heard from an extraordinarily diverse cross-section of people who are very excited not just about Canada's 150, but about leading up to the 150th. Of course, the committee is the master of its work and deals with motions as they are presented, and I think we've been a very busy and aggressive committee.

I know that we don't have a lot of time. I know that you're doing music nights, which is an offshoot of the very, very successful movie nights. I wonder if you could just give us a brief second on the upcoming music night that you have.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Well, since you've asked....

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

This is where I get to be a promoter. Andrew Cash can tell me whether I do a good job of promoting an event or not.

I'll just say this; I know we have to go to a vote. As I said, Canada is a massive country. Our cultural communities are brilliant, diverse, and wonderful, but it's very rare that we don't get to see.... Very often, Canadians see the huge megastars who do incredibly well internationally or very well in the United States and who we know are local talents in our local communities.

But something that I think has been missed for a long time is to know about all the talent that exists across this country and how brilliant it is. In particular, the wall that seems to exist between English and French Canada is I think a real tragedy, because English Canadians should know who Louis-José Houde is, and they should know who Les Cowboys Fringants are. They should know who these brilliant Quebec artists and actors are. We want to break down this wall. The reverse is equally true.

We've had seven movie nights now. Our first movie night had I think about 150 people out to it. Our largest movie night had 1,100 people out. These are all paid for entirely by sponsors on the outside; no taxpayer money goes into it. Their host is the NAC now; it is our permanent home for movie nights. They're very popular. We alternate between English and French films all the time.

The idea is to get as many of the 308 members of Parliament as possible into a room--they represent every square inch of this massive country--to expose them to Canadian artists and creators in film, so that maybe when they go back to their districts, they'll say to people: “You know what? You should see the movie Starbuck, because it's a fantastic movie”. Or they may ask, “Do you know Barney's Version, as written by Mordecai Richler?” Mordecai Richler just passed away recently, but Florence continues to be a fantastic voice for her husband, and Barney's Version is based on his last and best book. They may say, “Go see that film.”

You get people talking about Canadian culture, Canadian talent, Canadian writers, Canadian films--and you get them talking about Canada. It's easy to talk about Americans, but to talk about Canadians you need a push, because it's just too big a country, and it has too much talent not to miss it.

Because movie nights have gone well, we have now extended as well to having music nights. On Monday, December 12, I hope I'll see all of you at the National Arts Centre to see the Jim Cuddy band, along with Marie-Ève Janvier and Jean-François Breau, two fantastic francophone artists. I believe both are from the Acadian peninsula, and of course Jim Cuddy's achievements speak for themselves. So it will be a great night of music in a non-partisan environment--with food after--to enjoy some Canadian talents. You can go home and tell them. I'm very pleased to have as sponsors Music Canada, Quebecor, and others. Supporting Canadian culture is very important, and I thank them for stepping up to support this night.

Is that okay, Andrew?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you for your time in appearing here.

We will suspend for just 20 seconds and then quickly have our vote.

Okay? We will proceed to the voting on the supplementary estimates.

Shall vote 1b carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Is it agreed?

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Does anybody else have that piece of paper...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

No. It just lists the different votes under the estimates. You should have your supplementary estimates book.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Okay. Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

I shall now call the votes.

CANADIAN HERITAGE

Department

Vote 1b--Operating expenditures..........$7,953,692

Vote 5b--The grants listed in the Estimates and contributions..........$157,930,630

Canada Council for the Arts

Vote 10b--Payments to the Canada Council for the Arts..........$1

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Vote 15b--Payments to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for operating expenditures..........$60,000,000

Canadian Museum of Civilization

Vote 35b--Payments to the Canadian Museum of Civilization..........$665,000

Library and Archives of Canada

Vote 50b--Operating expenditures..........$1

National Arts Centre Corporation

Vote 60b--Payments to the National Arts Centre Corporation..........$1

(Votes 1b, 5b, 10b, 15b, 35b, 50b and 60b agreed to)

Shall I report the supplementary estimates to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

I will do that.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.