Evidence of meeting #15 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schreiber.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
A number of times, the media have said that you posted bail for Mr. Schreiber in his extradition case. I believe the amount was $100,000.
3:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, exactly. First of all, I would like to thank you for saying that I posted bail, and not that I paid bail. A Montreal newspaper said that I paid him $100,000 in bail. I even heard an NDP member claim on television that I had paid $100,000. I did not pay a cent. When an individual posts bail, he simply guarantees that the person in question will respect the bail conditions. The individual is required to pay only if this person does not respect the bail conditions.
In Mr. Schreiber's case, I never had a moment's hesitation. I have not paid a cent and I am sure that I will not have to pay a cent, because the purpose of the bail is to keep him from leaving the country. But Mr. Schreiber has been fighting for eight years to stay in the country, not to leave. I am not concerned about the bond I posted, and other people have done the same.
You may wonder why I did it. Mr. Schreiber and I worked together on several matters, for which he retained my services. When Canada received the extradition request, Mr. Schreiber decided to appeal it before the courts. The courts allowed him to remain free during his extradition case and set a very high bail, over $1.3 million, if I remember correctly. Mr. and Mrs. Schreiber handed over all their Canadian assets, approximately $850,000. They were about $500,000 short. They then turned to acquaintances and friends to ask if they would agree to make up the difference. I did not hesitate to do so.
My primary reason was sympathy, something we do not often see in politics, unless things have changed drastically since my time. Mr. Schreiber was never accused of or charged with anything in Canada. I did not see why this man should stay in prison for purely financial reasons or because he did not have the money he needed to post bail. I have regularly renewed the bail since then, with no problems.
3:40 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Good afternoon, Mr. Lalonde. Thank you for being here and for being clear and concise.
What was your role in the contract with Bear Head?
3:40 p.m.
As an Individual
I had two roles. The first was to advise the company, around 1992, on legal proceedings that Thyssen Bear Head Industries had brought against the Government of Canada after the letter of intent, signed by three ministers of the Conservative government at the time, was not respected or acted upon.
I examined this matter and recommended that Bear Head hire Ian Scott, who is known as one of the best litigators in Canada, to take on the case because I am not a litigator myself.
When the government changed in 1993, I was asked to represent Thyssen to make representations to the Government of Canada. I told those in charge that there was no chance for success if they were hoping to obtain a sole source contract, and that their only chance for success would be through a public tendering process. They agreed to this condition, and all my efforts were directed towards government authorities, such as the relevant public officials, departments, or even the PMO. The goal was to get a public tendering process that would enable Thyssen and also GM or any other interested company to submit a bid.
So that was I was mandated to do. Unfortunately, I was not successful.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
We all understand that the project was to build light-armoured vehicles.
Were you required to know the sales projections of where the light-armoured vehicles could be sold?
3:45 p.m.
As an Individual
I will admit that no, I was not. My only task was to try to convince the government to call for public tenders. As far as I know, it was to meet the needs of the Department of National Defence. I never heard talk of foreign markets during that time.
We can assume that, if this had worked, it would perhaps have been possible to sell internationally, but I never heard anything about that.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Were you aware that Mr. Mulroney's services had been retained to find potential buyers for that vehicle?
3:45 p.m.
As an Individual
Not until Mr. Schreiber tried to sue Mr. Mulroney over it. I believe that was last year. Before that, no. I heard about it in the papers, like you.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Did you know if Mr. Schreiber was in the habit of paying for some things in cash, except for basic necessities, of course?
3:45 p.m.
As an Individual
I was going to say that the only time I remember that happening was when my wife and I had dinner with him at Montebello. We brought our two grandsons, and Mr. Schreiber gave them $10 to go play the ball machines in the hotel basement. Other than that, I never witnessed it.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I would like to know if your company's contract, which must be a typical contract, allows some lawyers with high-profile pasts to accept contracts on the side without putting the profits into the company's coffers.
3:45 p.m.
As an Individual
No, that is not allowed. I do not know if that is still the case, but in my time, the only exception was that we could sit on boards of directors and receive remuneration as a director.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
This is a difficult question, but I would like you to answer if you can. Given what you know about these people, do you think that Mr. Mulroney was retained to do work in China, Russia, France and the United States?
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I do not have any valid information upon which to base a positive or negative answer. You are asking for my personal opinion, and that is all I can offer. I have to admit that I do not think my opinion is of any value. I can tell you that I never heard them talk about that.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Nevertheless, you did play an important role at the time. Relations with China at the time were not what they are now.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
You said that relations with China were better at the time?
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Well, they were while we were in government, because after we recognized China, our relations with the Chinese improved considerably.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
But that was five years after Tiananmen Square. Do you think Canada would have allowed the production of light armoured vehicles for export to China?
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Absolutely not. If I remember correctly, our NATO commitments and our agreement with the Americans on defence materiel would not have allowed us to sell anything to China.
3:50 p.m.
An hon. member
Yes.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
Good day, Mr. Lalonde.
In the December 5, 2007, edition of the Halifax Chronicle Herald, it was reported that you lobbied your former cabinet colleague, Jean Chrétien, directly. Is that correct?
