Evidence of meeting #8 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
As an Individual
But of course. There was an agreement that the Germans would receive something, everybody knows, for the Christian-Social Union, that something went to the French direction for the political gears.
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I don't understand.
You received the money from Airbus in various instalments in your IAL account. We agree on that. The $20 million from Airbus was thus paid into your IAL account at various points in time. These were transfers between bank accounts; it wasn't a cheque and it wasn't cash either.
Have I understood correctly?
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
After that, you distributed that money to various accounts. If we have the time, we'll look at the various accounts later. So you paid that money into various accounts, including a GCI account.
Earlier you said that you had paid $5 million into the GCI account.
Noon
As an Individual
It's my estimate. I may not be right, but this is my estimate.
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
All right.
Why did Fred Doucet ask you to suggest to Frank Moores that he pay the money to Mr. Mulroney's lawyer in Switzerland? Why?
Noon
As an Individual
Ma'am, you must ask him. I don't know. I told you, I went to Frank Moores and asked him, “What is this all about?” He told me to stay away, and I was happy to stay away from that.
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
What was the name of Mr. Mulroney's lawyer in Switzerland?
Noon
As an Individual
I don't know. Remember, I didn't pay attention. I was shocked and I said no. I went to Frank Moores, and it was over. Why would I, twenty years later, know what guy it was? On top of that, how would I know whether it's true or whether Doucet wanted to steal some money for himself? I don't know.
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Perhaps because you knew Mr. Mulroney's lawyer. Perhaps you knew him.
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Mr. Mulroney's lawyer in Switzerland. Perhaps you knew him.
Noon
As an Individual
Sure, but I don't know Mr. Mulroney's lawyer in Switzerland. I never met one of his lawyers. I thought you referred to Mr. Doucet.
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
In your letter, where you say, “I am prepared to disclose [...],” you say that you received payments from GCI, Frank Moores, Fred Doucet and Gary Ouellet. Normally, when you put in commas, it's because there's an enumeration.
Does that mean that, in addition to the GCI money, he received money from Frank Moores, Fred Doucet and Gary Ouellet? Is that what that means?
Noon
As an Individual
Ma'am, I think I told the committee now several times that it was agreed upon—at least in what Mr. Moores told me already in the 1980s—that GCI would look after Mr. Mulroney, and that when Mr. Mulroney was no longer the Prime Minister, he would work with GCI. So what I am talking about is that GCI—this is a complete business—had nothing to do with one or the other project. This is my understanding. But again, you may have a chance to ask Greg Alford about it. Perhaps he knows.
Noon
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Apart from the mere rumour or the fact that Frank Moores told you not to concern yourself with Mr. Mulroney because he was doing that, what other indication do you have to testify under oath before the committee and to write in that letter that Mr. Mulroney had received other amounts of money from other persons, apart from the $300,000 that you gave him?
Noon
As an Individual
This is what my understanding was from Frank Moores, and especially from Gary Ouellet, and when all this was discussed at the beginning, that GCI would do the business and get the lobbying business and all this. That was in the 1980s. The discussion was, one day, in the Ritz-Carlton, and Mr. Mulroney was present. So what?
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing my time. Perhaps at the five-minute point you could give us an indication and we'll substitute with my colleague.
Mr. Schreiber, good morning.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
More and more, all your stories seem to lead to GCI. That is why, actually, we wanted witnesses from GCI here today. Unfortunately, they were unable to be here.
But you testified earlier, and I guess you've reaffirmed today, that these commissions went to GCI and were then distributed to their shareholders and “trusts”. That is the term you used in the last testimony. Could any of these trusts be held by Brian Mulroney?
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
You did say that the arrangement, to your understanding, was that GCI would take care of Mr. Mulroney after he left public office.
