Fisheries Committee on Dec. 5th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Toone.

Mr. Leef.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I had asked a question in the first committee we had on CETA around aquaculture and eggs, and the sale of eggs.

Is that all contained within the CETA as well?

[David Bevan]

There's one caveat that I would make on that.

With respect to sale of eggs, that has to be subject to introductions and transfer committees, and there's a real concern. You don't want to have eggs come in that could impact on the Canadian ecosystem by importation of something with an exotic disease or some other potential risks of that nature. Those would be issues that would still have to be considered.

But a fish is a fish, in terms of CETA. It doesn't matter if it's an aquaculture product or a wild cod. When you're bringing in live animals of any nature, there's a real concern as to what might be coming with them. Those are very serious. You can never undo a mistake in those kinds of decisions, and you're very careful whenever you're considering those things coming in.

The introduction and transfer committees are made up of us, CFIA, the provinces, etc. Live importations are very carefully scrutinized.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

With the increased market, you'd assume there would be an increased demand or opportunity for people to hit the resources.

Is there a projected strain on the resources? Is DFO feeling comfortable and capable of managing, both from a biological standpoint, in resource management, to respond to any increase and change, and also on the enforcement aspect of that?

[David Bevan]

We're confident that we can maintain our controls. If there were to be a huge spike in the value of various species, that would create more pressure. The more valuable it is, the more temptation there is to poach. Hopefully, we're going to see some increase in value, but not enough, I don't think, that would cause us concerns relevant to enforcement.

We already have a sustainable fisheries framework that looks after a number of policies, which helps us to ensure that our products, our stocks, are looked after now and into the future.

That's in place and will be added to, to help improve the system. We are looking at monitoring control and surveillance improvements. We've seen on the west coast, for example, that every single mortality caused by fishing in the mixed stock ground fish fishery is accounted for. There are cameras on every vessel. There are records kept that are linked electronically, so the vessel location is known, the size and species of each fish is known, etc.

We think those kinds of things will allow us to continue to maintain control over the fisheries we're responsible for.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Excellent.

When these markets start to open up and there's initial renewed interest in a particular resource as it goes on, from a departmental perspective in the development of CETA, from a fisheries point of view, does it provide the department with some international learning experiences in terms of best practices or regulatory review? What has engaging in this kind of thing done to enhance your department and the people who work in it?

[David Bevan]

This was a trade arrangement, so it was focused on tariffs and trade access. We've always had information sharing. When we go to something like NAFO, we have relationships with other jurisdictions, and we talk about that. We have international collaborative arrangements.

For example, in the north Pacific, where we have joint operations with the U.S. and Russia, and Japan is now involved in terms of providing bases, there's a lot of sharing of expertise. Our enforcement people get together with counterparts in other countries around those kinds of forums. If they go to ICCAT, they have a chance to sit down and talk to enforcement people from all sorts of jurisdictions. They do that, and they share information and best practices. As we move ahead, if we are, as we pass the coastal fisheries protection act, that will again set up the opportunity to have more of that kind of sharing.

We've attended gatherings of law enforcement people internationally to compare notes, what the problems look like internationally, how they're solving them, how they're addressing them. It's not related to the trade agreement, but it is something that we do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bevan, would it be fair to say that the seal industry was sacrificed for the benefit of other industries in this country with the trade deal?

Did I interpret what you said properly or improperly?

[David Bevan]

I think that would be a stretch, to say the least. I think what we are doing is trying to gain access to markets for the seal industry. We're doing that not just for the EU; we're doing it across the globe.

That's a high priority for us and DFAIT. This particular decision was done in order to maintain our capacity to challenge the EU's ban in the WTO.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What you're telling me, then, is that it was a decision of the government, likely, possibly with advice from the department to go the WTO route and not push it on the CETA trade agreement, where I would have to think it would have more clout.

The decision was made that they wouldn't push the seal industry and they would leave it to the WTO to decide. Is that what you're telling me?

[David Bevan]

That's correct.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Well, that's some hard for me to understand.

Can you tell me, was the processing industry in Newfoundland something that the provincial government in Newfoundland was very pleased to give up? Something I read in the last hour or so would tell me that it was not. Was that sacrifice on the table for the benefit of other deals?

The problem I have is that fish seem to get sacrificed too often.

[David Bevan]

I would point out that fish aren't sacrificed in CETA. Fish will, in fact, be a big beneficiary as a result of the removal of very high tariffs on a number of products. They are not being sacrificed in CETA, but will be a winner as a result of CETA.

Having said that, I was not present at or privy to any discussions that took place between the Province of Newfoundland, which was a part of the process, and the federal government in terms of what went behind the decision of the province to remove the minimal processing.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Did you recommend $280 million of a package, so that it would be a kind of levelling of the playing field, and not know anything about the negotiations? Is that what the situation is?

[David Bevan]

I have no idea what the discussions were. We were not part of those discussions. We have no jurisdiction in the processing area. We're not privy to whatever discussions led to that arrangement.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I think you and I are fully aware you do everything possible to help the fishing industry. You have to go. The government leads the way. I understand how the bureaucracy works.

Should more funding be put into advertising as to how we handle the seal industry in this country? I'd like you to touch on looking at the problem of what takes place in the media worldwide on butchering whitecoats cruelly and all that.

[David Bevan]

Clearly, we're up against some pretty well-funded campaigns, between the IFAW and the HSUS.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Why is it only us?

[David Bevan]

Namibia has a seal hunt as well. I don't know if they've just chosen us. They've ignored Greenland, which isn't insubstantial. It's a big hunt there too. They've ignored that one. That hunt has been exempted from the ban even though it can get very large. The campaign has chosen Canada because we're the best and biggest target.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

That of course could take me back to the trade deal, but we're by that and the decision was made.

Do you believe the community adjustment fund, which the Department of Fisheries and Oceans was part of, should be re-established, re-funded? Has it done a lot to assist the fishing industry in general? I'm looking at the lobster industry, in particular. I appreciate what you said about the 10%, and hopefully it'll go to the companies. I hope it goes to the fishermen.

My concern is that they're selling fish and they have an extra profit of 10% to deal with. The company is going to buy the fish they get the cheapest, no doubt the best product. Is there any way of stopping that?

[David Bevan]

Again, as you're aware, we are focused on our core. Our core is management of the fisheries in a sustainable way. We are pleased to provide that assurance to a certifying body so they can be eco-certified, etc.

We did get engaged in the Atlantic lobster industry process. That was focused on moving, in partnership with the industry and with the provinces, to further enhance the sustainability of lobsters. There's almost invariably an increase in carapace size associated with those kinds of arrangements. That has helped generate better circumstances for that industry in terms of sustainability. It should have done something, and generally did. Generally, the gross earnings for most of the LFAs went up because fewer fishermen were going after the same or better catches and it was distributed less widely.

We did focus on the fish management side of it. DFO hasn't done anything relevant to communities because that's not our core mandate. Indeed, right now we don't have any authorities for that kind of activity.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bevan.

Mr. Cleary.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I didn't realize I had another round, but I always have more questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Your colleague put you on the list, I guess.