Thank you, Madam Chair.
Evidence of meeting #4 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
Evidence of meeting #4 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Good morning, Mr. Morgan. Thank you for coming here today. You're well known as an accomplished corporate manager, but by accepting to take on this commissioner role, you will obviously give us the opportunity to talk to you, as we have been doing today, to understand your views and your principles, and how you're going to express them throughout this appointment.
I want to build on something that was said earlier today. I want to preface it by saying I acknowledge the fact that you favour strong economic immigration, but I want to go back to the sentence that Ms. Nash has just read.
The quote is: “The social side is all too evident with the runaway violence driven mainly by Jamaican immigrants in Toronto, or the all too frequent violence between Asian and other ethnic gangs right here in Calgary.”
I'm just curious. Could you share with the committee the type of exposure or experience, or any scientific data you have that has led you to make that statement?
9:40 a.m.
As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
You know, in answer to your question, what I was saying was not something I created, but I suppose repeating something that was already in police reports was in some way as if I had created it. That's the part I really regret.
But there is a report that I referred to, coming out of the Alberta police reports. There is a special group in Alberta that's set up to liaise with other police forces across the country. There are about five different sections of the report, one of which has to do with Asian gangs. They were specifically talking about the Asian gang problem in Calgary, which is a difficult one. Once again, if I had to word it again I would say it differently, but it's a very well-known fact, and it happens very frequently in Calgary. It's a big concern to Calgarians, as I'm sure what's happening in Toronto is affecting people there.
But in any case, I want to reiterate that I believe we should worry about behaviour and not race, colour, or religion. That's my whole point.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Mr. Morgan, thank you.
You see, this is the problem that most visible minorities are facing--the fact that some imaginary or fictitious statements are being perpetuated by others as facts. You just stated that if you had the opportunity to reword that sentence you would. So would you help me give Canadians a sense of comfort and maybe apologize for that statement?
9:40 a.m.
As an Individual
Well, I don't think an apology would be the appropriate thing. As I said, I had based it on some very great concerns about the gang problem in our cities. But if I had to do it over again, I would never have mentioned any one group, because I think that was the unfair part.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
There's another statement here that says it's fair to say that most immigrants who abuse our society have come here as refugee claimants rather than economic immigrants. This again plays into perpetuating a myth that refugees--and your statement is that it's the majority of refugees--abuse our system. Do you have any scientific evidence or data that you've collected to reach that conclusion?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
The main point is that economic immigrants, as they're called, have to go through a very significant screening process, and refugees do not. It's just a fact. Things like records of violence in their countries are therefore not recorded to the same degree or considered to the same degree. It's only a fact of process; it's all about the process, and it's not about the individual.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
You obviously know there's actually an IRB board that is appointed by the federal government, by the way, which you will oversee.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
You'll oversee the process in appointing the IRB judges.
Again, this type of statement is really not comforting to many Canadians who are watching and hearing it come from an individual who will be overseeing the processes of these appointments. Do you regret saying this type of statement or would you want to clarify it some more?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I hope, Madam Chair, that I've made my position very clear. I've said that out of the hundreds of speeches I've given, if I had the opportunity to rewrite this one and those words, I would do so.
I only want to reiterate that you aren't going to find very many Canadians who are as strongly non-racist as I am, who feel the importance of immigrants, and who travel the world. My wife and I just came back from Indochina. The people there are wonderful. We heard about the difficulties they had in escaping the violence in their country. There is not an ounce of feeling in my blood against immigrants or any race.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
The question I have for you is this. There are approximately 4,000 appointments that the federal government is responsible for. Do you feel that visible minorities and women are under-represented? If so, what do you think your role or the government role is for doing something about it?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
Madam Chair, it is a question that I hope we might be able to have some influence on. Our mandate is limited only to the process of appointments. We have nothing to do with the selection of any individuals, as I said before.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
But they think the process should take that into account.
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I believe that in putting together their code of conduct and guidelines, the commission would encourage the Government of Canada to do their best on a kind of a global basis.
We can't look at each individual thing, but at the end of the year, I think it would be a good idea to ask this: what kind of balance do we have? What kind of gender balance, regional balance, and ethnic balance do we have in these 4,000 appointments? It seems to me that it should be considered. We're working on it.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
Exactly. I think it's something that should be an objective. There's no reason why that has to interfere with merit, because there are a lot of great people of every type in the mosaic of Canada.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair. I haven't had a chance to offer congratulations on your election to this important committee.
Mr. Morgan, thank you for being here. Of course you are here because our Prime Minister has pledged to Canadians that not only will there be a change in some ways government operates, but it will be a change Canadians can see. It will be transparent; it will be open; it will be open to examination. Your job, sir, will be ensure that fairness in the appointments process is not only done but is seen to be done. That's a big challenge.
I was struck by the constitution you wrote for your company, where you say that your vision is “to create a truly great company—one where quality work is the norm; where we stretch and strive to be the best we can; and where great things are accomplished”. You say that “principles grace every decision and punctuate every interaction along our journey”, and you define the principles as strong character, ethical behaviour, high performance, and great expectations. I think Canadians would be delighted to see this vision and these principles built into the selection of individuals who serve our country in a myriad of appointed capacities.
I wonder if you could help us understand how this vision and these principles that you have worked with for so many years can in fact be incorporated into the appointments process and into the way we choose people to serve our country.
9:50 a.m.
As an Individual
Thank you very much for that question.
I believe, as the constitution says and as you have just read, that where you have to start to build all strong foundations, including corporate foundations and country foundations, is through a set of sound principles.
This great country has a Constitution, and what we as Canadians are doing is building on that Constitution. I decided that a company should have a constitution and you should build a company on a sound foundation. Some of the principles that are in that can be applied to all walks of life, both personal and corporate and government. To the extent that we can find ways and that the other commissioners believe it appropriate, we'll try our best to put principles in place for the commission that will be shared by all Canadians and reflect the best of Canadian values.
That's the vision I hope to achieve as chair, and in talking to the commissioners who have been appointed so far, I believe they share it.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Morgan, as you know, one member of this committee, Ms. Nash, has already judged you and found you wanting, without having heard what you had to say. But I was struck by something she said. She said you, Mr. Morgan, “probably don't believe in the things I believe in”. She also mentioned as a negative the fact that you had made a contribution to a political party. It happens to be the party I belong to as well.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
This is what this person...[Inaudible--Editor]...we have in this appointments process. The concern that has been raised is that appointments are made on the basis of these kinds of criteria: whether somebody has the same political philosophy, or what their political involvement may or may not have been in the past.
I wonder how the process you envision can deal with this, how it can move appointments away from these kinds of philosophical criteria and into the kinds of principles you talked about in your constitution—strong character, ethical behaviour, high performance, and great expectations—rather than political activity.
