Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 7th, 2013

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Okay. So if I understand correctly...

A number of your proposals affect ridings that aren't represented by a member right now. Is that right?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Every bit of Brampton is currently represented by three MPs. There's actually a little bit of overlay in one of the Mississauga ridings as well.

I'm not sure where MP Seeback is going, in which riding, whether he has made that decision. I am still not absolutely 100% sure of which area I'm going to, so it really depends. We don't have that answer as of yet, at least I don't.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Very well.

Everyone who is somehow affected by the changes supports the proposals of their colleagues. Is that correct?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Absolutely.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Do the resulting numbers come close to the electoral quota? What do the changes represent, demographically?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Do you mean the overall numbers?

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

After the proposal, obviously if the committee recommends and the commission accepts the proposal.... I understand Mr. Seeback is also making some recommendations. The numbers in the riding of Brampton West may vary a bit, but based on my proposal, Brampton West would be minus 4.67%; Brampton North would be minus 8.99%; and Brampton East would be plus 9.2%, so roughly between 101,000 and then 97,000, and roughly 116,000 in Brampton East.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

What is the impact of your proposal on Brampton East, if there is any?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Based on the report, the population of the riding of Brampton East is roughly 99,712, which is minus 6.12%. My proposal would bump up that number to 115,000, roughly nine points over, which is still well within the targets.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'm not talking numbers specifically; I mean the effects on the communities it impacts. I am trying to see if that particularly change was in your original proposal to us as a committee. Was it?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Yes.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In terms of community impacts, what's the change, and to what community? You talked about the numbers, but who are they? You talked about communities of interest but you haven't defined them in that particular change. Who are we talking about and why are they linked? Why should they be brought into your riding?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

A small portion from the previous riding of Brampton—Springdale has been taken out and lumped with the new riding of Brampton East, which is the northeast corner of the current riding of Brampton—Springdale. The community below the street called Sandalwood Parkway East, and between Torbram, Bramalea, and Bovaird was established at the same time. It's the same type of neighbourhood as the area Minister Gosal currently represents, which is east of Torbram Road. The school system is the same. That whole community is seen as one.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Typically when MPs talk about communities of interest, there's some sort of historical evidence or commercial activity, a cultural connection that says the community is distinct in a certain way and that distinction is more drawn to a neighbouring community than it is to an adjacent one.

The argument around population is certainly valid, but when we refer to communities of interest, we as a committee try to understand because this is the argument we will have to make to Elections Canada to change what is often a complicated jigsaw puzzle, as you've said. I'm trying to understand that community of interest, and why it makes sense going one way and not another.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

The community interest is the neighbourhood, established around the same time; the residents have been living in the neighbourhood for the same number of years, I would say. The school is another factor. A lot of the kids go to the school, which is keeping the community in the north part of Sandalwood and the east side of Torbram. It's difficult to say. I can't say that the neighbours or the residents living in this pocket aren't necessarily of the same mindset or the same demographic as those living over here.

Obviously we have to take two things into consideration. By bringing in the Snelgrove community in the northwest part of the riding, the numbers would have to shift in the riding of Brampton North. That would solve two problems. By adding a little box or roughly 16,000 residents into the new riding of Brampton East, the numbers are more in line. It protects the community interest. Both in Brampton North, as I mentioned earlier, and in the riding of Brampton West, significant growth is currently going on. Lots of houses are being built in the new riding of Brampton North and in Brampton West, but not so much in Brampton East. Even if you're looking a few years down the road, the significant growth that's going to take place will be in the two ridings of Brampton West and Brampton North.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Monsieur Dion, for five minutes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I'm not sure that I need five minutes.

I just want to recap. You say your changes, Mr. Gill and Mr. Seeback, are not creating a domino effect that another colleague would not like, that regarding the numbers it's very reasonable, that it remains close to the provincial quota. Regarding communities, you don't think that your proposal will create resistance, that it will be well received, and you may substantiate that.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

For my riding, the inclusion of Northwood Park.... It's a distinct community. People who live in Northwood Park call it Northwood Park. It was one of the first subdivisions that was built in Brampton in the late 1950s, early 1960s. They are very much attached to the downtown part of Brampton. I've talked to many of the residents there. They've always been included in the downtown riding, and so they want to be included in that. On that level, yes, it's going to be very much supported in the community.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Gill, do you have something to add to your answer to Mr. Cullen? If the commission were here, is there something you would like to tell them about the community aspect of your suggestion?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Absolutely. In the northwest part of the new riding of Brampton North, it is very important to have the Snelgrove community as one. As I mentioned, the majority of the community currently falls in the riding of Brampton North and there's a portion that's in the new riding of Brampton West. The local residents from there have approached me. Obviously it would move the western boundary up to the Orangeville-Brampton railway line. We would have a clear defining mark there as well in terms of where the two ridings split, and it would better represent community interests at the end of the day.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Do both of you have a lot of support for your suggestions?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Absolutely. In fact when the commission was in Brampton and they were hearing submissions on Brampton, residents were loud and clear that they wanted the downtown of Brampton to be represented by one federal riding. Many people made that submission.

I think the issue with the commission was that they didn't really know what the full boundaries were of what's considered to be part of downtown Brampton. That's why in the report stage map they excluded Northwood Park, whereas in the first map they actually had it there, but it divided part of the downtown. It's widely supported within the Brampton community.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

The same for Mr. Gill.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Yes, absolutely, there's a lot of community support. I know the residents were there at the commission hearing. I personally did not participate because I didn't think it was appropriate for me to appear before the commission. I think overall the commission has done a tremendous job. It's not an easy task, but given all the factors, I'm happy.