Evidence of meeting #98 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fergus.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you.
With that, Mr. Fraser, we thank you for your time and attention today.
I will note that, because you are a sitting member of the provincial legislative assembly, we would not have been able to make you come. We appreciate that we invited you and you made yourself readily available.
With that, we wish you the best. Have a great rest of the day.
12:35 p.m.
Member of Provincial Parliament, Legislative Assembly of Ontario, As an Individual
Thank you very much for the opportunity. I appreciated all of the members' questions.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you.
The meeting is suspended. We are going to do a sound check for the next presenter. We'll be back in five to seven minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Hello and welcome back to committee.
For our final panel, we have Simon Tunstall, chief returning officer of the 2023 leadership election, by video conference.
I am going to remind members that, when it comes to interpretation, when we're all in the room with our mics, it's a connected system. When we bring people in by video conference, these are systems working with each other, and therefore, if the witness is speaking, no member in this room will turn on their mic, because that also causes feedback.
We have tech people who will turn mics on and off. I will watch the clock, and I would ask that nobody turn their mic on, because I need the system to unfold. If this is not adhered to, I will use my prerogative as chair to protect the ears of the interpreters. One thing that's causing us the most challenge right now in responding back to the House is interpreters and translation services.
I am clearly using my words and stating my expectations, and I do expect that they will be satisfied and met.
We have Madame DeBellefeuille.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC
Madam Chair, I may not have understood what you said. I would like to know whether the technical tests have been done and whether they are conclusive.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Yes, both the tests with the technicians and the tests with the interpreters have been done.
Mr. Tunstall, I will be passing you the floor for up to 10 minutes for your opening comments. I will ask that you speak slowly so that interpretation can be provided in a way that is good for all members.
With that, welcome to the procedure and House affairs committee. The floor is yours, Mr. Tunstall.
12:45 p.m.
Simon Tunstall Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, everyone.
I prepared some remarks earlier this morning. I since was watching John Fraser's appearance. I've learned a few things, so I will update a few comments at the end.
My name is Simon Tunstall. I was the chief returning officer for the Ontario Liberal Party's 2023 leadership election.
Before I go any further, I need to start by saying that I've been a little bit sick for the past few days. In particular, I've been sneezing and coughing a lot. I just wanted to give a heads-up that if I very suddenly move off camera or mute myself, it is because I would really like to avoid sneezing into a microphone on camera.
On Thursday, December 7, this committee passed a motion to invite the “chair or co-chairs of the Ontario Liberal Party's 2023 leadership election organizing committee”. The leadership election organizing committee, or LEOC, is a body mandated by the governing documents of the Conservative Party of Canada and the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario. The Ontario Liberal Party does not have a committee by that name or any committee by any name with a similar function.
Setting that aside, it appears that the committee was interested in inviting the senior official or officials with authority and responsibility for the organizing of the Ontario Liberal Party's 2023 leadership election.
The Ontario Liberal Party's constitution gives authority and responsibility over almost all aspects of the leadership election process to the chief returning officer. The chief returning officer is the only close equivalent in the Ontario Liberal Party to the “chair or co-chairs” of the leadership election organizing committee.
In April 2023, I was appointed by the Ontario Liberal Party executive council to be the chief returning officer for the 2023 leadership election. For a little context about me, I held senior roles in the two other Ontario Liberal Party leadership elections that were held this century, in 2013 and 2020. I also oversaw the organization and execution of almost all of the Ontario Liberal Party's contested nomination meetings for four consecutive nomination cycles, in 2007, 2011, 2014 and 2018, usually in the role of returning officer. Additionally, I have twice held the role of executive director of the Ontario Liberal Party.
From the time I was appointed as chief returning officer in April, I had authority and oversight for the organization and administration of the 2023 leadership election contest. One secondary component of that was determining how to announce the results of the election.
On Saturday, December 2, the Ontario Liberal Party held an announcement event at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. The broad content and agenda for the announcement event was decided upon by me as chief returning officer. The programming included videos from the leadership candidates, speeches by former premiers Dalton McGuinty and Kathleen Wynne and a tribute to outgoing interim leader John Fraser.
However, in the days leading up to that announcement event on December 2, my focus was on preparing for the counting of the ballots, which was taking place at the exact same time. The receiving of all the other components of the announcement event, such as the videos from the leadership candidates, the speeches from the former premiers and the tribute to John Fraser, were handled by volunteers and staff.
My understanding is that the content of the tribute to John Fraser was determined and compiled by supporters, friends and family of John Fraser. This is normal. As I recall, there were similar tributes to Dalton McGuinty in 2013 and Kathleen Wynne in 2020, with the content organized by their close supporters, friends and family. I suspect this is also true for almost all tributes to politicians in almost all political parties.
I personally did not become aware that there was a video message from Speaker Greg Fergus until more than an hour after the video was shown at the event. I do not know who the close supporters, friends and family of John Fraser were who put together the content of the tribute. Therefore, I do not know which of those supporters, friends and family communicated with the Speaker or with his staff regarding the purpose or content of the video. Therefore, I do not know the content of those communications with the Speaker or his staff. I should also add that I have never met the Speaker and have never had any interactions with him.
As a final comment, I would like to add that John Fraser is an exceptionally kind and thoughtful person. I have not actually watched any part of the tribute from December 2 yet, but John absolutely deserves every nice thing that is said about him by anyone. He is a genuinely good human, and I hope he plans to stay in public life as an MPP for many years to come.
That was what I wrote this morning.
I watched the tail end of the Speaker's appearance before this committee and I watched almost all of John Fraser's appearance before the committee. I learned that the conversation happened between John's wife, Linda, and.... I'm sorry that I didn't catch the individual's name. I believe they were referenced as the chief of staff to the Speaker. It's not an individual I'm familiar with. That was news to me today.
That's all I have to say. Thank you very much, Chair.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you very much.
We will now enter into six-minute rounds, starting with Mr. Cooper.
Mr. Cooper, you have six minutes, through the chair.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Tunstall.
In the letter that was sent from Milton Chan, legal counsel to the Ontario Liberal Party, and reiterated by you today, you had broad oversight of the announcement event. That included determining or deciding upon having a tribute to the outgoing leader, John Fraser.
Who then did you delegate the assignment of preparing the tribute to?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
There were hundreds of volunteers and a handful of staff who we have involved in all aspects of the leadership election. The particular event was organized by about a dozen different people. I actually am not 100% sure which individual, of the people organizing the event, contacted John's friends and family to put it together.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
A handful of staff and some other volunteers were tasked with organizing the tribute. That included getting video clips to put together as part of the compilation that was to be presented at the leadership announcement. Is that correct?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
I'm sorry. I missed the first few words in the question.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
You had assigned to a handful of staff and volunteers the task of going out and getting clips from various friends and associates of John Fraser, all of which would be compiled and put in a video presentation.
Was that the direction?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
I think there's a step in there. The team that was putting together the event contacted somebody or multiple people who are part of the friends and family of John Fraser. They were tasked with putting together and collecting the videos.
The Ontario Liberal Party volunteers were simply an intermediary to reach out and have the friends and family of John Fraser collect—
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you for that, Mr. Tunstall.
The bottom line is that there was an Ontario Liberal Party staff member who contacted friends or family members of Mr. Fraser. They, in turn, went out and got the various video clips from various friends. That was compiled and then presented at the leadership announcement. That was essentially the plan.
Is that correct?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
I believe so, yes.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you for that.
Would you be able to provide names to this committee?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
I would rather not. The team of volunteers—
12:50 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
I'll explain why.
There was a team of volunteers doing this. They aren't staff. Most of them are former political staff from Queen's Park from many years ago. I've not asked them for their permission to share their names. I have not consulted them on this. I don't know if their current employers would like to have their names involved in this.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I understand, Mr. Tunstall.
Mr. Tunstall, was there any communication between the Ontario Liberal Party—that being staff or volunteers—and Mr. Fergus, Mr. Fergus's chief of staff or anyone else in Mr. Fergus's office, aside from a volunteer or a friend of Mr. Fraser, that being his wife?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
To the best of my knowledge, no.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Okay.
Mr. Fergus had undertaken an interview with Laura Stone at The Globe and Mail on the eve of the Ontario Liberal leadership announcement.
Was anyone in the Ontario Liberal Party involved in connecting Ms. Stone with Mr. Fergus?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Returning Officer, 2023 Leadership Election, Ontario Liberal Party
I'm not actually familiar with this interview, so I strongly doubt it.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Will you undertake to provide all emails, memoranda and records of communications, including text messages and instant messaging application messages, under the control of the Ontario Liberal Party regarding this video tribute to this committee?