Human Resources Committee on Dec. 1st, 2009

[Michael Dougherty]

Yes.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

There are a lot of faith-based organizations involved in this.

I'd like to go to Ms. Hrenchuk. Thank you very much for your recommendations. That's what we want. We want some specific recommendations that we can incorporate into a plan.

You talked about a national anti-poverty act that included things like gender analysis, which I think is very important. You mentioned a national housing policy, and that's probably what we've heard the most about across our discussions. You also mentioned the clawback of the child benefit in the Yukon. That's good.

On employment insurance, most of the changes we've seen in EI over the last couple of years largely haven't benefited women. If you look at the extra five weeks as listed in the budget in the spring, that was welcome, but it didn't do anything to increase accessibility for seasonal workers or part-time workers. Ever since we went from it being based on weeks to based on hours, it's been negative for women. So in terms of employment insurance, is there anything specific that you would like? Is it a national standard? Is it a reduced qualifying period? What would it be?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

I would say it would be both of the things you mentioned, anything that would take into account the seasonal and part-time nature of the work many women do, as well as the nature of women's work across their life cycle. Women start out working full time. Often women will stop working full time when they're staying at home to raise their children. Some women choose that option. Some women chose it because they want to spend that time with their children and their families. Some women choose it because of a lack of availability of child care, which is a problem here as well.

Then when women go to re-enter the workforce when their children are in school--it's a common pattern--it becomes very difficult. During that period of time, women lose a lot of the momentum of their careers, plus they have often sunk into poverty, especially single women if they've had to rely on social assistance.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

On early learning and child care, I asked somebody earlier and they suggested that somebody like you might be better able to answer this. Is that a need here, as it is in other places, some quality early learning and accessible, affordable, high-quality child care?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

Definitely.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Is my time done?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You're almost finished. We'll come back to you afterward.

Mr. Martin.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you very much for being here.

We're nearing the end of an exercise of more than two years in trying to get a handle on what the federal role should be in a national anti-poverty strategy, and we're looking at what we might put into a report to government that would cause them to act and put a plan together.

Three of the things that I've talked about and think about in terms of that are supported by some of the testimony we've heard. One is that people are concerned about their income security at all levels, whether it's seniors or single moms or families. Second is housing, which has been mentioned several times here today as a challenge and an issue. Then third, which is fairly new, but I think is something that probably the faith-based communities have recognized over the years, is the notion of social inclusion. I note in the report we got, which was put together by our excellent researchers, that the Yukon has actually announced the development of a new social inclusion strategy.

I was wondering if you--perhaps starting with you, Mike--could talk to me a bit about how that is working. Has it got wheels on it? Is it moving? What's happening there?

[Michael Dougherty]

As you are probably becoming aware, in a small jurisdiction such as our own, you meet the people who are involved in the concrete reality of bringing this to life in the checkout at the local supermarket. So you can bypass a lot of the bureaucracy and talk directly to the people. I had the opportunity to talk with Mike McCann, who's leading the effort inside the territorial government for the social inclusion policy. I know he was buttonholed by a speaker who was brought up here, Rob Rainer, from Canada Without Poverty, and was asked to make sure that it's not only the social inclusion policy but it's the anti-poverty policy as well.

But as you have probably heard already, there will be a forum, I hope in February, that will draw together stakeholders, both from the faith-based communities as well as the NGOs and the general public, to talk about the general elements of a social inclusion policy, what that would mean, what it would actually look like. Then a survey will be taking place which the Anti-Poverty Coalition--I'm sure they mentioned that earlier in their testimony--will be engaged in as well, and then a second forum in the fall to sort of concretize this and move it along very quickly.

Before the Anti-Poverty Coalition existed, we had an organization in town called the Collaborators. It was an attempt to break down the barriers between the different government silos, the pockets, and we published one thing early on called “Surviving in Whitehorse”. It was a guide about what the street-level access was for basic services. We always wanted to do a second stage, “Thriving in Whitehorse”, about how with a low income you can enhance the quality of life for people. We never did that. We never pushed on to how we move to the thriving, and that's the real challenge for us in creating a sustainable economy. How do you move away from, in terms of Catholic social teachings, a market-dominated economy to a people-oriented economy, and what does that actually mean in terms of restructuring so that you can provide everyone with the opportunity to thrive rather than only survive?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I'm looking at the outline—the juxtaposition to social inclusion, of course, is social exclusion—and it talks about poverty, housing, education, employment, and social participation.

We've heard a lot today about housing and how difficult it is for some to get adequate, affordable housing. The territory is doing some things, and it has taken advantage of some federal programs—although we read yesterday that the recent rollout of social housing money isn't getting out the door very quickly.

Don, you indicated you've taken advantage of all your money in the first year. Having listened to Charlotte describe the challenge for women in finding affordable, appropriate housing, particularly in circumstances where they're being abused and need to leave the house they're in, how do we square that circle, or circle that square?

[Don Routledge]

I'd like to make one quick comment. The news article you referenced from yesterday deals with the extension of the affordable housing initiative, which I believe was announced by the Government of Canada last September or October. This is an issue that I discussed in our presentation. The problem for a jurisdiction like Yukon under that initiative—and we have a budget allocation of $1.97 million—is that the cost sharing formula is 50-50, to a maximum contribution by Canada of $75,000, yet it costs $300,000 to build a unit.

When I referenced in my presentation that we have difficulty with some of the well-intended federal initiatives, this is one of them. It means that either an NGO or a private sector developer or the Yukon government has to provide 75%, plus the lifetime O and M costs. It's sometimes not easy for us to roll out a federal initiative. Sometimes we succeed, but other times we have a lot of difficulty.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Charlotte, did you want to comment on the housing situation? I think you probably did fairly well in your presentation. I heard some quite positive things from Don on what's going on in terms of housing. I also heard some pretty challenging stuff from you and others who appeared earlier in the day, particularly for those at the lower end and women who are trying to access safe, affordable housing.

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

I think there's a whole spectrum of housing for women that needs to be addressed. Yukon Housing is building an affordable unit that was supposed to be for women and children, but it was extended to single-parent families, including men.

We desperately need accommodation for single women who don't have dependants, who have the lowest rate of social assistance. They often have no family or any kind of fallback system.

We desperately need more housing for women leaving the transition home. There are five units that are always filled, and that's through the whole of the Yukon. Women very often come from rural areas to Whitehorse for safety and shelter. There's basically nothing in the communities. Dawson City and Watson Lake have a shelter, but as it stands now, there are only five units for second-stage housing for the entire Yukon

Kaushee's Place, which is a women's transition home, has a shovel-ready project that has been sent back and forth between the government for more and more tweaking. That's been going on for several years now. There may be many reasons for that, but I don't really comprehend them. I think Yukon Housing does as much as it can given the funding it has.

I'd like to say something about the social inclusion policy. The problem is that it seems to be moving rapidly, which is a good thing, but it is not exactly modelling social inclusion in the way it's rolling it out. It has not included any non-governmental organizations in the design or brainstorming of the ideas so far. I don't think it's modelling social inclusion. I think the inclusion of non-governmental organizations from the very early inception and conception phases would have been a very positive thing. It would have indicated to non-governmental organizations in the Yukon, which provide a lot of resources for people living in poverty.... That would have been a really good move.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thanks, Tony, and thanks, Ms. Hrenchuk.

We're going to move over to Ms. Cadman for seven minutes.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you for showing up.

Gender-based analysis looks at the difference in men's and women's lives and assesses the different impacts that policies, programs, and legislation may have on them. If the central government adopts a national poverty reduction strategy, do you think the GBA should be used as a tool in the development?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

Definitely. Absolutely.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

How can the GBA inform policy-making as it relates to poverty reduction? Can you explain anything?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

As you've stated, women's lives are distinctly different from men's. Women suffer from many forms of abuse and violence that men do not, which affects how poverty will affect their lives and create situations of poverty, addictions, etc. Women's life cycles are different in the way, as I mentioned earlier, that women often opt out of the wage economy for a while to raise their children. The whole issue of single parenthood affects women more than it does men. All these things affect poverty, so if you're going to have a poverty reduction strategy that really, systemically, attacks the basis of poverty, then you're going to have to look at it through a gendered lens and take into account the realities of women's lives.

Also, older women, senior women, are more often living in poverty than men, perhaps because of the child-bearing years that took them out of their career trajectory or because they were working at lower-paid, seasonal, part-time positions. So the reality of senior women's lives is a lot different from many senior men. You have to look at that in order to reduce the poverty of senior women, the poverty of single women, the poverty of single-parent women, and of youth, teenage girls.

You have to look at the whole issue of child poverty, which to me was completely misrepresented. Child poverty is women's poverty. Most children live with their mothers or in a family. They aren't out there wandering the streets by themselves, unless the family systems have broken down. That is a whole other ball of wax to be addressed in an anti-poverty strategy and act. I think you really have to take a good, hard look at women's poverty if you want to solve the problem of child poverty.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

I have a couple of questions and they have to do with shelters. How many shelters are in Whitehorse? Do you know?

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

We have one emergency transition home for women who are experiencing violence. We have one emergency shelter for men and women that's run by the Salvation Army; it has 10 beds. That is supposed to serve the emergency shelter needs of the entire Yukon. It does not accept children. There are three beds reserved for women. Most women do not want to go there unless they are really facing 50 degrees below zero and a park bench, because in that shelter they are facing the very men who abuse them. It's also first come, first served. They have to leave the shelter during the day, and in the winter go from, say, the detox centre to the library, to various other social agencies, until they are able to come back at suppertime.

There is a women's transition home in Dawson City and a women's transition home in Watson Lake. That's it.

[Michael Dougherty]

There is as well the attempted youth shelter, which uses the beds at the drug and alcohol treatment centre. Again, it isn't seen as a positive alternative for youth to go there as an emergency shelter. There was an attempt last year by a non-governmental organization, just over here a few blocks, to create another 10-bed shelter, but it met with funding roadblocks and some bureaucratic definitions of what was necessary in order to meet their governmental standards. It has not gotten off the ground. So they are very little help.

[Charlotte Hrenchuk]

Yes, there was a tremendous amount of community support for that youth shelter. There was a great fundraising campaign, they had a lot of really good ideas, and a lot of the community was behind it. But I really don't understand why it didn't come about, because they even have a building, which is fully equipped, but they have no O and M money.

[Michael Dougherty]

They are relaunching right now, I think, a fundraising campaign again to attempt to bring that to life on their own, but we'll see how successful that is. It's difficult, obviously, the upfront cost of putting something like that together in the community.

Just as another point, in your earlier question, for the last 11 years now I've been a human rights adjudicator here in the territory, and there is that whole focus, of course, that we've had on individual rights. In any anti-poverty process we have to really clearly focus on collective rights, that larger sense of how we as a community work towards the common good, how we provide the basic housing, food, shelter, safety that our people need. What I've mainly dealt with in that part of my life is individual rights. Our focus has been weighted on that side, rather than, as we are going to become more and more aware of in the global context, the need to really stress collective rights in an anti-poverty program of whatever dimension—territorial, national, whatever.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I just want to ask a couple of questions to you, Don. They're just around housing.

I know you talk about maybe a hundred new units. Some of the previous presenters talked about the challenge of actually getting great statistics because of a lack of resources to understand. We talk about a hundred new units for Yukon; that's great, and the work is fantastic, but what kinds of shortages are we still talking about?

[Don Routledge]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Our current statistics, and we do them monthly, are in the neighbourhood of a waiting list of 85 in Whitehorse for social housing. From the body that delivers for us, our agency, the Whitehorse Housing Authority, approximately 50 of those would be singles and families and about 30 to 35 would be seniors. The current projections of what we are going to be building in the next two years effectively eliminate the waiting list we have today.

One of the fundamental problems that we still have to acknowledge is that we have a lot of units that are deteriorating and getting past the point of economic repair. The corporation has already decommissioned social housing that was deemed to be beyond economic repair. So right now we're on a very strategic path to address the waiting list we have, both in rural Yukon and in Whitehorse. But as we solve one immediate problem, we still have many more in the future to deal with, particularly with an aging population.