Evidence of meeting #54 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
The Clerk
It's a recorded vote.
(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 7; nays 4)
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Liberal amendment 2 was affected in the same fashion, so now we'll move to NDP-3. Before we go there, Ms. Leitch, do you have a point?
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
I would ask whoever is doing the translation when we have a French speaker to try to give me the translation as quickly as possible, even in the midst of speaking, so I can pick up on the point.
Now we are on NDP-3, which relates to page 4 of the bill. It deals with the situation of two children, and the last of the children dies. Would you like to deal with NDP-3, then, Monsieur Lapointe?
9:20 a.m.
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
We would like to replace "(i) the last of the children dies" by "(i) the expiry of two weeks after the last of the children dies".
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
I will deal with whether the amendment in order or out of order.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Do you think it is out of order?
Vey well.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
It's out of order, and I'll tell you why again. Clause 5 of Bill C-44 states that leave related to this part of the clause ends on the last day of the week when the last of the children dies. Amendment NDP-3 proposes that this leave would expire two weeks after the day on which the last of the children dies. As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, second edition, states on page 766:
An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading...is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.
In the opinion of the chair, the introduction of NDP-3 represents an extension of leave included in clause 5 of the bill, which is beyond the scope of the bill and is therefore inadmissible. This ruling also applies to LIB-3, which seeks to amend the same line and to achieve the same result. Essentially this deals with much the same idea as the former amendment, as it relates to the one child.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
I do not think it is beyond the scope of the bill. So, once again, based on all the testimonies we have heard, I want to appeal your ruling.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Just so you know, as I said in the first one, a ruling of the chair is not debatable. If you want to challenge the chair, you can, but we won't get into a debate about it.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
François Lapointe NDP Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
I said I want to appeal your ruling.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
Yes. Similar to the opposition, we had concerns with respect to the time—
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
It's not a point of order.
The chair's ruling has been challenged, so we will turn it over to the clerk to identify this in clear terms.
9:20 a.m.
The Clerk
The question is whether the decision of the chair should be maintained.
(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 6; nays 5)
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
That amendment falls.
We'll go to LIB-4, which relates to page 4.
Go ahead.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
With respect to the last motion, I apologize. I was trying to get ahead of the curve with Monsieur Lapointe's comment.
Just so that everyone is clear with respect to the benefits that are made available to families, in addition to the 37 weeks, if a parent or a family has a concern—for example, a child dies or a child is released from hospital—the family is then eligible for the 15 weeks of sickness benefits, which gets you to 52 weeks, or the family can utilize that benefit to the additional two weeks.
Therefore what is available to the family—I just leave this as a point of clarification, so that you are aware—is a 37-week benefit, plus a 15-week benefit, plus a six-week benefit, all of which are available to the families with respect to employment insurance.
9:20 a.m.
A voice
They're in existing laws.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
That's within existing legislation. It doesn't matter if this is passed. The 15 weeks already exist, as do the six weeks under compassionate care. That's just so that you are aware.
We've looked at this very clearly, and you can stack the benefits that are available to families. It's not just for what we would define as a disease-based entity; it could be for psychological bereavement.
Thanks, Chair.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Just so we're clear here, we're not dealing with amendment LIB-4 now, because I had previously ruled that it correlated to amendment LIB-1, and I ruled it out of order. We're not dealing with the amendment, but we will be dealing with the clause, so comments can be made with respect to clause 5 itself before it carries or doesn't carry.
Ms. Leitch made a comment. I think Mr. Sullivan wishes to make a comment, and Mr. Cuzner wishes to make a comment.
We'll move to Mr. Sullivan for comments. Go ahead, Mr. Sullivan.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
You're saying they receive benefits if they have the EI qualifications to continue to receive them. To that's the caveat there.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
No, the same medical certificate can be utilized with respect to the attainment of these benefits. They are benefits that are available for stacking.
As I said, we too, as we all heard from the individuals who were presenting to the committee, wanted to make sure and assure ourselves that those benefits could be stacked, which they can be. As I said, with the passage of this bill, there will then be three separate benefits made available to families: 37 weeks, plus the sick benefit of 15 weeks, plus the six weeks of compassionate care benefit.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Mr. Chair, Ms. Leitch is saying this is a given, but the caveat is that they must qualify. They must have the 600 hours to qualify them for the EI benefit, so it's not a given.
