Industry Committee on March 10th, 2011

[Richard Dicerni]

Would you like to show the documents?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Whatever you want. Public Accounts 2010, volume 2.

[Richard Dicerni]

It was 2010. He was pointing to, I believe, the agency for the north.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

That's right. It's for the north of Canada, not northern Ontario.

[Richard Dicerni]

So Public Accounts.... It had no reference to northern Ontario; it was northern Canada.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

It was pointing to an agency, not to a program.

That's fine. Very good. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Rota.

Monsieur Bouchard.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Dicerni, how big is the total budget envelope approved in the budget of April 1, 2010 to March 31, 2011? Is it $8 billion, or $7 billion?

[Richard Dicerni]

For the Department of Industry—and I am making a distinction between the portfolio that includes all the granting councils, the National Research Council of Canada, the Canadian Space Agency...

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

It is included.

[Richard Dicerni]

If you include all that, it is about $7 billion. Now, if you are talking about the department, it is approximately $2.4 billion.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

You begin your year with $7 billion, and I think that there are adjustments, or supplementary appropriations. During these 12 months of activity, what sums have been added to this $7 billion sum? Would it be an extra $1 billion, or an extra $500,000?

[Richard Dicerni]

Once again, we must draw a distinction. I will take a close look at the document.

For the Department of Industry, the difference is about $200 million.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Are you talking about the envelope as a whole?

[Richard Dicerni]

As a whole... One moment, please.

My colleague told me that in the document prepared by Treasury Board, the whole was not added up...

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

In any case, what would have happened if the government had told you that after giving you $7 billion at the beginning of the year, it would no longer give you any money and that you should finish your year with this budget?

[Richard Dicerni]

Let me give you an example of the use of this instrument.

Technology Partnerships Canada makes reimbursements into the Consolidated Revenue Fund of Canada, but through this instrument, a part of the money goes to the assistance program for the aeronautics industry. This program receives appropriations which are, on the one hand, reimbursements from the previous program and on the other hand, parts of the consolidated fund. Since the amount available for these projects is not determined at the beginning of the year with regard to reimbursements, we function through the supplementary estimates process.

When any company such as Pratt & Whitney, CAE or any other, reimburses funds to the government pursuant to the contribution agreements it has signed, this money goes into the consolidated fund. Through this instrument, it is subsequently returned to the department and allocated to the assistance program. If we did not have these transfers, we would invest less in the aeronautics industry because there would be fewer appropriations.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you very much to all the witnesses.

On Mr. Wallace's point and Mr. Bouchard's point, for those who are used to watching a business with an income statement and a cashflow forecast and balance sheet, I know it is frustrating. But I agree with you as well. It's probably a confluence of the Treasury Board guidelines, as well as the Auditor General and Parliament. We'll work on that being more transparent and accountable in the days ahead.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.