Evidence of meeting #44 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was age.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Community Development Social Worker, Elder Abuse Intervention Team, City of Edmonton
Well, yes. So it's changed that way, but we've sort of stayed the course with that. A lot of people, when you talk about senior age, if you're talking to seniors or to professionals, will still start with the age of 65.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Program Manager, Long-Term Care Best Practices Initiative, Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario
In terms of our best practice guidelines, we've looked at, in terms of defining seniors, 65 years old.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Do you work back and forth, depending on the mental and physical capacity?
4 p.m.
Program Manager, Long-Term Care Best Practices Initiative, Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario
Yes.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Okay.
Now, do you see that there would be any opportunity to circulate these practice notes and to...?
This is not going to be a question, because I won't have time. The chair is very strict on time.
As a lawyer, my understanding was that the information needed to get out to people, and lawyers needed to take steps to have joint powers of attorney and so on—I see you nodding in agreement—in order to take steps for people who got into that position before they got into that position.
In terms of a senior, for instance, two or three children might have power of attorney over their money; or in fact an elderly care home might have specific rules that they give to people who put people into care to suggest that they take care of assets in their home and lock them away, that they take care of the money and make sure there are two or three people involved in that. Do you see that as being of real value to them?
I will just ask for a yes or no on that.
4 p.m.
Director, Department of Social Services, Jewish General Hospital, As an Individual
It's hard to give a yes or no. It really is. It's a—
4 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
But do you see direction and practice guidelines and education being helpful to people?
4 p.m.
Director, Department of Social Services, Jewish General Hospital, As an Individual
Practice guidelines; education is important; and a good asset is to have two powers of attorney. It's not always necessary, but it's a wise suggestion.
October 16th, 2012 / 4 p.m.
Liberal
Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Much of the witness testimony that we've had has been supportive of the legislation with regard to this being an enhanced factor at the point of sentencing. But a number of the witnesses, while supporting the legislation, have said that what is needed is a comprehensive strategy with regard to elder abuse.
Elder abuse itself, as you all know more than most of us, may manifest itself in psychological terms, in emotional terms, in financial terms, in physical abuse, and so on.
One of the witnesses who appeared on behalf of CARP, the Canadian Association of Retired Persons, in calling for a comprehensive approach, made a number of recommendations. I'm just going to identify them for you and ask for your response to those recommendations, or to any others that could compose part of a comprehensive approach.
The recommendations included the following: an elder abuse hotline; a duty to report; added caregiver support; specialized investigative support for existing criminal offences, some of which you mentioned, Maxine, in terms of maybe training law enforcement officers and the like; victim support services; elder shelters; and so on.
I'll just leave it at that and ask for your comments on any of these specific recommendations as part of a comprehensive strategy or on any others that you might suggest, and on whether we need to work together in terms of all levels of government—federal, provincial, and the like—for these purposes.
4 p.m.
Community Development Social Worker, Elder Abuse Intervention Team, City of Edmonton
I think we should start with a hotline, for example. We have in Edmonton a seniors abuse helpline, a place where seniors can call, where professionals can call, to get direction, to get support, to get information referral. I think it's very helpful. It does put the issue more out in public, because it becomes promoted and people know about it and know that this issue needs to be dealt with. It's not a bad idea to have something like that for anyone, really, to turn to for some guidance and so forth.
There are other things as well. In terms of support services, we have the multidisciplinary team. I'm going to harp on that a little bit, because in Edmonton we started that in 1998. It has allowed the health professionals and the social workers, and mental health now have joined us, and the police, and me as a social worker on the community development side, to all be part of a team. That way, when a case comes in, it's not just a police officer looking at it, or a social worker; it's all of us together trying to figure out, in any complex type of situation, the best way to deal with it, and who may take the lead in terms of dealing with the situation and then getting support from the others on that team. That has been very effective for us to look at the situation, understand it better, and in turn deal with it.
I'm just going to throw that out there. If there are more opportunities to develop those kinds of teams.... There is one now in Calgary, there is one now in Waterloo, and I know that other community responses are happening in Alberta as well. That's just one thing I'll throw out there in terms of support.
I'll leave it at that, because I'm sure there are others who want to speak—or not.
4:05 p.m.
Director, Department of Social Services, Jewish General Hospital, As an Individual
I think we do need to have a multifaceted approach to elder abuse. Just having an amendment to the Criminal Code is not sufficient. It is a complex issue and it needs a multifaceted response. But that doesn't take away the fact that this amendment is important and it states something. There should be a strategy for elder abuse across the whole country, and there should be a link between what's going on in the Criminal Code as well as with what's going on in the different civil jurisdictions. In Quebec, they have a law in the civil code for the exploitation of elderly people, and I think it's an excellent law. I think it's something that maybe other provinces would want to look at. There could be the link between a civil law that looks at elderly people who are exploited, to the point that on the continuum it becomes a crime, and then it goes to the Criminal Code.
I think there's work to be done.
4:05 p.m.
Program Supervisor of Social Work, Elder Abuse Intervention Team, Catholic Social Services
I would agree with all the points you outlined. Our hotline is quite busy. We even get many professionals calling and saying, “I'm not sure if this meets the criteria” and “What do we do?” So it's supporting all of these things.
Duty to report is an interesting one because there's always debate around whether that would push things underground or not, but duty to report for professionals I think would be quite important. We come up against FOIP and I can't disclose that information. Confidentiality is always an issue. Ms. Lithwick also pointed that out with the banks.
4:05 p.m.
Director, Department of Social Services, Jewish General Hospital, As an Individual
Yes, there's a huge issue with confidentiality.
4:05 p.m.
Program Supervisor of Social Work, Elder Abuse Intervention Team, Catholic Social Services
Duty to report, especially for professionals, is something that should probably be highlighted and looked at. Then we should be looking at not just the federal level, but the provincial level as well, so there is pressure from above to make all of these changes.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all of the witnesses, and a special welcome to Mr. Power and Ms. Perka, fellow Edmontonians. Thank you for being here.
Ms. Perka, in your opening comments you anecdotally talked about a situation of an elderly person who had their hair pulled and money was demanded. I think we all agree that this is a significant event. As you may or may not be aware, courts in other jurisdictions, notably B.C. and Ontario, have, under the current wording of section 718, considered an individual's age and frailty as an aggravating factor. Are either of you aware of the Alberta courts ever recognizing age frailty as an aggravating factor for the purposes of sentencing? I am not.
4:05 p.m.
Community Development Social Worker, Elder Abuse Intervention Team, City of Edmonton
I can't say I am familiar with a case in point, no.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
You're not. Okay, thank you.
Obviously, you support this legislation and think it would be a positive development if courts would consistently apply the age of an individual when considering sentence when that individual has been a victim.
4:05 p.m.
Community Development Social Worker, Elder Abuse Intervention Team, City of Edmonton
To a degree. I'm going to say, and I think it's been pointed out, both in the executive summary and in other comments that have been made, that it's good intent. I think it's going to create some more awareness around the issue. It's going to allow us to see it for what it is in terms of it being something that needs to be dealt with, and I think some other kinds of things will come out of it. We're still going to run up against this situation where the seniors themselves are going to have to be very active participants, if you will, in this.
It has not been our experience to date that they want go through that kind of process of seeing an adult child—and I'm talking about those situations in particular where it's family—or a nephew or an uncle, an aunt, what have you.... In those situations, they do not want to proceed to see those charges go forward. Even if we look at it in terms of the police having some ability to lay charges certainly, they also have to know that the person is going to work with them through the court process. So it does have difficulties there.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Sure. Also, as Ms. Boivin has indicated, section 718 is triggered once charges have been laid and a finding of guilt has been.... I realize that's an issue with respect to hesitancy to get involved in laying charges in the first place. Presumably, organizations like yours, Catholic Social Services, advise individuals of their rights and what some of the options are when they've been victimized. I'm assuming that's part of your mandate.
4:10 p.m.
Program Supervisor of Social Work, Elder Abuse Intervention Team, Catholic Social Services
Of course, especially because we work so closely with the police officer on the multi-disciplinary team.
