National Defence Committee on May 31st, 2007

[Gen Raymond Henault]

Mr. Chairman, I'm at your disposal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Very good. We'll get as deep into our questioning, then, as we can.

We'll start with Mr. Cannis, for five minutes.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

In the short five minutes, General, I'm going to try to pop some questions for quick responses.

Let me begin by saying that in your 40-year distinguished career in the military, I truly came to appreciate you and respect you even more when you were CDS in Canada, in the way you approached your assignment and in the way you stood so firmly for our men and women. But I was even more proud when you and the other many Canadians who competed and won high-level positions welcomed us in Brussels. Let me just put that on the record.

General Henault, during your presentation you used certain words that I think were very important, that Canadians who are following this committee and who will be seeing it and reviewing it will begin to understand, because when we ask the tough questions, sir, you know very well from your past experiences that it has nothing to do with our lack of support. If anything, we ask the tough questions for the support that we provide for our men and women.

We've been told by the Prime Minister and the Minister of National Defence every time we ask important questions about the mission, using the George Bush line, that “we're not going to cut and run”.

It's not a matter of cutting and running, because supposedly the Taliban and the insurgents will get the message that we're leaving, and they're going to sit back, and they will come out of their caves after we leave. And you know very well that is not the case, because you said, if I may quote you, “we expect to be there for a while”.

So in essence, if we reverse it, they know that NATO and 37 nations are going to be there for a while. It's not just a Canadian mission. So that argument, I believe you will agree, has been defused.

You also said, sir, that planners are a part of our “lifeblood”, and then you also used another word, if I may quote you, “NATO planning”.

I was in Slovenia during the NATO conference. Your brochures continuously talk about planning. They talk about the membership action plan, the ten countries that wished to join, and by 2004 the seven that had joined. They talk about the mission in the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia. They talk about the NATO-Ukraine action plan. They go on to talk about planning.

The first question I want to ask you, sir, is this. NATO does long-term planning. You've just said so. Are you not in the process now, knowing very well that the Canadian extension is going to end by 2009, of starting planning today as to who will take on that rotation after Canadian service?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

Thank you for that.

Let me note one thing: I certainly acknowledge the work this committee does. I know how important your work as a committee or your predecessors' and obviously those in the future have been to the Canadian Forces in that context. Especially I remember back to the quality of life requirements and everything that happened to make the Canadian Forces a much more capable force in the longer term. I know how important your influence is on Parliament, and I thank you for that.

I've also had the opportunity to interact with a number of defence committees in many different nations, including Hungary, the Czech Republic, and France. I interacted with their senate there and in fact I even interacted with the chairman of the Duma Defence Committee. All of those committees are trying to achieve the same things as you are, which is a better and more capable force and protecting and obviously recognizing the contributions, but also the requirements—

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

You know that Canadian missions are over in 2009. Are you planning today, or are you not planning today, who is going to assume that role after the Canadians have finished their mission?

I am just pressed for time, sir.

[Gen Raymond Henault]

Yes, we are looking at how we can do the burden-sharing in the—

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

No—are you planning to replace the Canadian contingent today, sir?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

We're planning for a transition in Afghanistan, where there are many nations that are going to adjust—

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Sir, I apologize. We know the Canadian mission ends in 2009. Are you planning today who is going to take over, as there was a plan for the Canadians to go in before the Canadians did go in?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

We are looking ahead to see who might take on that mantle if Canadians do withdraw. That's part of our planning process. We are looking at a number of issues--

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Do you agree that the Canadians, before they commit, should clear the caveats so that Canadian men's and women's lives are not endangered? Do you agree more caveats have to be lifted?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

I always encourage, and so does the Secretary General, that nations lift as many caveats as possible.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

If NATO doesn't have the power to dictate, sir, then NATO is weakening itself, and these new nations that are becoming partners are just going to join the club without preparing to share the burden. That's the way Canadians are seeing it today. I'm just giving you the message from the constituency.

[Gen Raymond Henault]

I must beg to differ, because I know many of the new NATO nations that I have met.... I meet with them regularly. I was recently in Latvia, for example. They have no caveats on their troops in Afghanistan. It's a small nation, but it has no caveats. Albania, which is not a NATO nation but nonetheless a partnership for peace nation, has deployed forces with no caveats on it. So they are all there to do what they can. Poland is probably one of the more prominent new NATO nations that you would have referred to. Poland has just completed a deployment of about 1,200 troops into the eastern region, which is a difficult region of Afghanistan, and they have no caveats on their troops.

So each nation makes its own call in that respect, and we continually encourage them to do just what you said to minimize those caveats.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Very good. Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Cannis.

We're going to go to Ms. Gallant, and then over to Mr. Bouchard.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

General Henault, thank you for clarifying, first of all, that NATO does not dictate to its member countries what they must or must not do.

Further to the caveats, I understand the majority of our deaths incurred have been the result of the improvised explosive devices, the IEDs. How does the existence or absence of caveats impact on the prevention of IED casualties?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

You're quite correct that the majority of losses of life in Afghanistan have occurred through suicide bombings and improvised explosive devices, although there have been many deaths from combat action. In fact, the most recent, regrettably—Canada's loss, with many others—was with the Chinook being downed yesterday.

The IED threat is one that is very real. It is one we are very focused on. Allied Command Transformation, with which you may be very familiar, which is the transatlantic arm of NATO, if you like, and ensures the continued recognition of the transatlantic link, is now doing some significant work to provide education, counter-IED capability, training for troops, both before they deploy and while they're in theatre, and the development of devices, whatever those may be, to block remote control IED activation or any of those kinds of things.

This is probably one of the more difficult things we've had to face, because IEDs are relatively easy—I don't want to say that in the wrong way. They can be procured and developed by almost anyone. They are very cowardly and they attack our troops anywhere.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Does the absence or existence of caveats have any impact on whether or not we suffer a loss of life as a result of IEDs? Do they prevent...?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

I find it hard to find a direct connection between caveats and loss of life with IEDs. What the caveats restrict is the movement of troops—in many cases, to support other troops or hold ground after those troops have taken a particular location.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

Commenting earlier this spring about the 2006 Riga conference, you said that while in the southern and eastern regions of Afghanistan there exists a much fiercer resistance than expected, NATO forces have momentum. Has any progress been made on that front? Do we still have the momentum?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

Yes. My view is that what had always been termed the spring offensive didn't materialize, on the part of the opposing militant forces.

Indeed, what happened was that because of very good decision-making in theatre, and very good establishment of capability and disposition of troops, and having shown Canada at the very front of that last October, NATO showed it could not be dealt with by the Taliban in a conventional way. It became clear that instead of the opposing militant forces preventing us from securing and stabilizing the area, and doing reconstruction and development, they had turned around.

So from my perspective, we've completely changed the complexion of operations in Afghanistan. The Taliban, or any opposing militant forces, are now forced to use the small hit-and-run tactics, improvised explosive devices, or suicide bombers to prevent us from doing what we have committed to do, from an international community point of view.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Sometimes insurgents are using Pakistan as a safe haven, and they pose a lethal threat to both our military forces and the civilian population of Afghanistan, particularly in Kandahar and the surrounding provinces.

What strategy does NATO have to curb the movement of Taliban elements from Pakistan across the border into Afghanistan?

[Gen Raymond Henault]

A tremendous amount of intelligence activity goes on, because this is very much intelligence-driven. What primarily is being done to curb that cross-border activity is the Tripartite Commission, which I referred to at the very outset of my presentation. The commission is chaired by the commander of the International Security Assistance Force, with the attendance or the participation of the Afghans, normally the chief of defence, and the Pakistanis, in order to cooperate along the border.

That Tripartite Commission is primarily designed for border security and to coordinate actions that will prevent the cross-border movement, which you just referred to, of people, of arms, or insurgents.

The Pakistanis have recognized that the Quetta area, for example, and those border regions, have insurgents who are infiltrating Afghanistan. They have committed to helping us prevent that.

Indeed, I have seen operations on the border where insurgent activity was detected, attempting to go into Afghanistan from Pakistan. Those insurgent movements were prevented by a combined ISAF, Afghan national security forces, and Pakistani intervention. So it is helping and working.

What they need is more surveillance and technology capability to control that border more effectively, especially at night.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you very much.

Thanks, Ms. Gallant.

We're going over to Mr. Bouchard, and then back to the government.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, General, for being with us.

In your presentation you mentioned that the Afghan had to take matters into their own hands and become operational or functional.

How do you perceive the interest or motivation Afghans have in military or police organizations? Would you say this interest is low, medium or high?