National Defence Committee on Dec. 6th, 2012

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Okay.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Did you say 41% or 41 individuals?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It's 41%.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

No. We have 370 or so of some 400 or so people. It's not 41%. I'm not sure what.... I might have it here. It changes every day....

Yes: we have 379 filled of 447.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Regardless, there must still be things you can't do because those positions aren't staffed.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

It depends. That's a good question.

We're working very, very hard to fill the positions. Your colleague asked about virtual reality therapy. We're bringing in interesting, innovative therapies. Again, the idea really is to impress upon the potential employees in our clinics that we have leading-edge clinics with good team environments, so we're doing that. We've embarked on positive relationships and are moving forward with the Canadian Psychiatric Association and the Canadian Psychological Association in terms of the membership becoming more educated about the programs we have.

In terms of whether there are things we're not doing, one of the things that has to be kept in mind is that the number we came up with 10 years ago—or I could say that “they” came up with—was basically a best guess. A lot of people ask, “Is 447 enough?” I'll say that I don't know, because we've never been at 447. There's not a health care system in the world that doesn't feel overworked and doesn't feel that more staff could help; you can go to any hospital in the country.

We're keeping up with the tide. We're seeing patients. We prioritize the lists. We're able to do things and post our uniformed people into places. We've upskilled. We've increased Petawawa, Valcartier, and Gagetown; we've created OTSSCs in those clinics. We've moved people. We're doing the most we can.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

May I have just a short comment, Chair? I will not ask a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

The time you have has expired, Madame Moore. You're just over.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I really wanted to know whether any programs or projects were not being administered because of the lack of staff. I would very much appreciate it if you could get back to me in writing as to whether any programs are pending.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

If you can get back about that, it would be great.

I'm going to continue moving on.

Ms. Gallant, you have the floor.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and through you to our witness.

One of our prior witnesses today said he was interested in participating in a pilot project involving service dogs, but when he told his superiors he wanted to do so, he was highly discouraged from doing so.

I'm familiar with that pilot project. Were you involved at all with the forces in that realm at the time of the study?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

I think that was the Director Casualty Support Management program, the DCSM, Colonel Blais' folks.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If there were to be such a pilot project initiated again, how would the organization conducting the study or the project go about finding the soldiers who would be interested in participating—not veterans, but actual service soldiers?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

There's a whole process of doing research, and part of the research is having a research ethics board by a university approve it. Part of it would be how you would recruit people.

I think in a study like this it would be very difficult, because you would have biases, and if you have dog-friendly people who take the study and do well, the people reviewing it later on might say there's a bias in the people you selected.

I can't speak to how I would design the experiment per se, but what you would have to do is randomize people. You would have to give some people dogs, you would have to compare it to regular therapy, and you would have to control for all of the factors that are going on in people's lives. It's complicated.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I wasn't referring to a study. It was a pilot project in which they had service dogs that were trained to help.

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

I wouldn't be the person to speak to about that.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

As a mental health adviser, are you familiar with any biological chemicals that are released just prior to or during an episode by somebody who is suffering from PTSD? Are there pheromones?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

There are many. A cortisol surge usually occurs.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Is this something perhaps an animal can detect through its olfactory organs?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

I would have no idea. It's not a pheromone. It's a central brain chemical. I don't know if dogs can smell cortisol.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So there is a possibility there are chemicals released that could be sensed, and this could be why they can sense a seizure or an episode coming on, but that is for the scientists to determine. Thank you.

My dear friend Mr. Harris was mentioning Canadian Forces Base Petawawa. Do you know if the current requirement of psychiatrists has been met?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Petawawa is actually overmanned now. They have 4.8 psychiatrists for a population of about 6,000, and there probably isn't a community anywhere in the world that has that many psychiatrists for 6,000 people.

There's not any civilian population, so we're doing very well there in recruiting and interest and passion, and soldiers are getting care on a very timely basis now.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

That is remarkable, because for a catchment area of 100,000 people, I believe there are only two psychiatrists available for the civilians.

There was quite a bit of concern when the satellite office to which our soldiers had been bused to in Ottawa was closed, and we lost the two psychologists. Can you tell me whether or not those two psychologists, or the two persons or the weekly hours, are now being filled at Petawawa?

[Col Rakesh Jetly]

Yes. The psychologists themselves have moved to continue offering services in Petawawa. Unfortunately, I think it might have been our fault in the way we communicated it, but it was actually a good-news story.

We were closing the satellite that was requiring soldiers to travel away from their families for two hours, just like our friends from Shilo travelling to Winnipeg. The satellite closed. That allowed the staffing in the Ottawa OTSSC to increase, so soldiers are getting their care in the Warrior Support Centre in Petawawa.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

When I was visiting CFB Petawawa with the veterans affairs committee, which held a meeting there, we met a soldier from Afghanistan who had been home for a year and still hadn't seen a psychiatrist. By some miracle, that day he was going to have his first appointment.

Can you bring me up to date on what the wait times are for a crisis situation? How long does a soldier who is in crisis have to wait to see a psychiatrist, and how long is it for a less critical situation?