Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, that is an important point of order to get clarification from Mr. Blaikie's point of order. We do have voting members. If a voting member is leaving, your whip needs to advise our clerk on who the voting member is and who that voting member is substituting for. I think that's quite clear. I think that's been standard among committees here for many years.

If you do need to step out, Mr. Agnus, your whip needs to let the clerk know who is replacing you as the voting member.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay, just to that point, then, it's not me who steps up and says, “I'm leaving. I'm going to have Daniel or Ms. McPherson substitute.” I have to go to the whip, and then the whip goes to the clerk, and then the clerk will let you know. I just want to make sure, because it's been a while—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is a farce.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I just want to make sure that I.... I'm sorry. I can't hear. Chair, I'll turn off my mic. I can't hear because they keep talking.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, what I'd ask is that, prior to stepping out, you ask your whip to send an email to the clerk, to the committee inbox, and to identify who the committee member is and who the voting committee member is going to be replaced by, before you leave, so it's very clear to the clerk that a voting member has been substituted by another member.

All right. I think that provides clarity on that procedural issue.

Now, I'm going to proceed to a reminder as to where we were. We were on amendment CPC-4, which was moved by Mr. Patzer. Now we're on a subamendment by Mr. Genuis, who has the floor.

Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I have been trying to speak on my subamendment for about half an hour—

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I have a quick point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—and I'm constantly getting interrupted by New Democrats who are committed to preventing me from speaking because they don't want my—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, I'm going to ask you to pause.

We have a point of order by Mr. Blaikie.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is disgusting, Chair. Bring these members to order, and let me speak, because I have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Blaikie, go ahead on a point of order.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have to say that prior to coming here this evening, I thought I knew something about parliamentary procedure. What I thought I knew was that the chair determined who had the floor. Only when the chair told a member that they had the floor could the member then speak. Only then could their microphone come on.

Now, sometimes members have the floor and something arises in the course of the remarks, and a point of order or a point of privilege has to be raised. It was my understanding that the chair at that point has the authority to tell the member who has the floor to wait while he gives the floor to someone else in order to make that procedural point. When that's resolved, the floor is then returned to the person who was speaking before.

But in observing Mr. Genuis's behaviour tonight, it seems to me that, on some committees, members decide for themselves when they have the floor. They turn on their own microphone. They just declare by fiat that they have the floor. They talk over others.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Let me speak, Chair.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

They damage the hearing of the interpreters.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is not a point of order.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Case in point, Mr. Genuis. I have the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have the floor. Let me speak.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

This has given rise to some important confusion, so I wonder if you could explain it to members, Mr. Chair. Maybe I'm the person who doesn't understand how it works, but if I do understand how it works, then a lot of others around this table apparently don't.

Could you take this opportunity to please explain to all members of the committee, associate and otherwise—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is not a point of order, Chair.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

—how it's determined who has the floor, when that changes and who's in charge?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Blaikie, for your point of order.

Colleagues, as I have indicated previously, Mr. Patzer moved an amendment. Then Mr. Genuis moved a subamendment.

You've asked me, Mr. Blaikie, how I determine who has the floor and who has the right to speak. Mr. Genuis has the floor, because he's moved a subamendment.

As the chair, I recognize members if they have a point of order while another member is debating their subamendment. Members throughout this meeting have had a number of points of order with a number of different speakers. To the best of my ability, I've recognized every member by creating a speaking list and a speaking order.

What I hope to do, and I hope colleagues here will follow this, is to have you not turn on your mics unless you are recognized.

I have also indicated to members—actually for the last several months in the proceedings on this important bill—that when I turn on my mic, this nice red light comes on. This indicates that I would like to intervene and that I would like a member to pause in their intervention. That way I don't have to cut them off. More importantly, the interpreters have the ability to interpret what's being said into the mic when there aren't a number of mics turned on at the same time.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

It provides a tremendous challenge for them—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You're filibustering. You repeated this five minutes ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Perkins, I did not recognize you, sir. If you have a point of order, once I conclude—