Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Is it not the clerk's understanding—clerk, can you opine on this—that a member on this committee cannot move a privilege motion? Privilege motions are directly put forth in the House.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On that point of order, in fact, you can't raise a privilege motion in the House. That—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I'd ask the member not to debate with the mike on. We will ask the clerk to get—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

After eight years, the NDP-Liberals don't know this. Wow.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, I'm going to suspend for a few moments to have an opportunity to speak with the clerk.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We are back.

I will go to Mr. Genuis, who had the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I've moved a motion of privilege that I understand we're debating. Is that what you were consulting on? Is that what we're doing right now?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Yes. You have the floor, Mr. Genuis, where you left off.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

We're debating the privilege motion that I put forward.

Privilege is important. Privilege is what protects the rights of members of Parliament to do their jobs and represent their constituents. Privilege is steeped in history and tradition in this place. Given the way privilege is colloquially used these days, it's important to underline that the assertions of privilege in the parliamentary context are very different from discussions of privilege that happen in the wider culture.

Typically when people are talking about privilege in a culture context today, they're referencing somebody claiming a particular personal advantage, something that is proper to them that they want for themselves, for their own use or benefit. Therefore, when privileged people have certain privileges, it's understandably not met with a lot of applause most of the time.

In a parliamentary context, the assertion of privilege actually has the opposite character, in that privilege is not the ability of a person to do what they want for their own benefit. Rather, it is the assertion of the responsibility of an individual to magnify the—

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to let Mr. Genuis continue defining the word "privilege", if that suits him, but first I'd like someone to answer the question I raised.

What I personally understand about procedure is that we may not raise a point of privilege in committee. Chapter 3 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice concerns privileges and immunities. It clearly states that, in standing, special, legislative and joint committees, "[s]ince the House has not given its committees the power to punish any misconduct, breach of privilege, or contempt directly, committees cannot decide such matters."

I would like the clerk or the chair to tell me clearly, yes or no, whether we can raise a point of privilege in committee. There must be a way to do it, but I don't think that explaining the Greek root of the word "privilege" will help us get there.

Can we do it or not? Once that question has been answered, Mr. Genuis can continue his diatribe.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I can speak to the point of order. That might be helpful while it's being looked at.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We will hold the question, if the clerk could....

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Sure. I'm happy to answer questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We'll ask you to pause.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's fine. It's no problem. I'm sure the answer will be found regardless.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Oh, Garnett, you're a Conservative Albertan, so none of the NDP-Liberals want to hear from you.

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I just want to thank you for taking the time to do this. It is why earlier I suggested that maybe we should suspend to get some clarity so we could all do our jobs on behalf of the people we represent. That certainly is what the elitist-sounding word “privilege” means to all of us as members of Parliament—to be able to represent the common people who sent us here and to fight for them.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Monsieur Simard, for your point of order.

I will ask the clerk to provide an opportunity for comment.

[Miriam Burke, Committee Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The committee itself does not have the power to rule on a question of privilege. Only the Speaker of the House has that power. Somebody can raise the question in committee. The chair then decides whether it touches on privilege, whether it relates to privilege, at which point the committee can agree to a report to the House, where it will then be taken up.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's exactly correct. Thank you.

I raised the issue of privilege, which the committee does not have jurisdiction to rule on. I have raised this question of privilege because I believe the privileges of a member have been violated and, therefore—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, go ahead on a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Genuis's privileges were not affected, so for him to raise an issue of privilege on something that does not affect him is completely moot. What we're seeing is just obstruction. They are using every tool in the rule book—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm not finished.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.