Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I will just give it a whirl, and you can make your decisions as the chair.

I know that all members here, except for Conservatives, are fans of censorship, so I guess we'll see how this goes.

First of all, at the top of the meeting on Monday, I was the person who asked for the distinction between the health and safety concern and the job function concern. This is not for you, Mr. Chair, because you have already clarified this today.

My comment to Mr. Simard is that, of course, we already agree, which was exactly the argument that we made yesterday, and it's also what we've emphasized today.

Now, I did make a point of order at the beginning of the meeting, and it is related to moving on with Ms. Dabrusin. Could you just outline—since we are technically in the same meeting—the existing speaking list that will proceed when Ms. Dabrusin starts speaking to her point?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Yes, I have acknowledged members who are on the speaking order. If you would like to get your name on the list, let me know, and I will put your name down. However, I do have Ms. Dabrusin up next.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Chair, I want to know what the existing speaking list is.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

The chair will go, one at a time, to members and will provide members...because members do change their minds. After Ms. Dabrusin, I will acknowledge the next speaker I have. I'm going to go one at a time.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I would say that the way for there to be credibility in this committee is through transparency. One piece of advice is that the clerk could just email the information from the head clerk to all the members here about the interpretation issues. That would be transparent. The next thing is that, for transparency right now, you should outline the speaking list that was the list from the last meeting. Then we will all have a functional committee where we know what's going on, where there is transparency from you and the clerk. That's how you're able to run a meeting where people work together in good faith with credibility in the process.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your point of order.

As mentioned, Ms. Dabrusin is next on the list. We have several people on the list. The list does change, and the chair does acknowledge who is on the list. Mr. Genuis did put his name on the list. If other members would like to put their names on the list.... I have Ms. Dabrusin, Mr. Simard, Mr. Aldag and Mr. Genuis. I do have a number of members on the list. If other members would like to put their names on the list to speak, I can put their names on the list.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I was on the list prior.

[An hon. member]

Why wouldn't you be on the list, Earl?

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I mean, we're in the same meeting.

[An hon. member]

Why isn't Earl on the list? Earl was on the list.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I have a quick point of order, Mr. Chair. I have a point of order on what he just said.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

We're technically in the same meeting, so the speaking list from last meeting should apply today.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I've already talked about moving to you, Julie. I'm asking for the speakers list after you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We will suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, we're back and resuming our meeting.

I want to clarify why I suspended earlier. We did have multiple mics on. I'm not sure if that was intentional or unintentional, but I wanted to make sure that we all could just take a few deep breaths and pull away and be able to start fresh.

We are going to move forward with Ms. Dabrusin, who has the floor. I'd like to give Ms. Dabrusin the floor so she can start on her debate on the subamendment that's been presented.

I will ask members, if they have a point of order.... If it's related to health and safety or interpretation or anything that I've previously brought forward, that has been ruled on. If it's a point of order on something else, then, Mr. Patzer, I can allow you to make a succinct point of order and then I'll proceed to Ms. Dabrusin.

Go ahead.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I have two separate points of order. Which one do you want me to go with first, the one on the comment you previously made before you gavelled us out or the one prior to that?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer, I'm not sure. Just begin with your point of order so I know what point of order you're on.

I'm not sure what comment was made prior. You had a point of order from earlier. We have a number of points of order.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Well, I'll do the current point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I'll just say that we are doing the best we can to manage the various points of order. That's why I made the remarks on the ruling that's been made. That's been made. If it's on a different point of order, please proceed.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

First of all, you made a comment that the list keeps on changing. I imagine you understand how problematic that is. I do not recall any of my colleagues asking to be removed from a list. Yes, names get added to the list, but we certainly have not been removing ourselves from the speakers list. I have not heard anybody else around the table removing themselves from lists, so I don't know how the list keeps on changing.

There's also concern because you alluded to the fact that we've had multiple clerks. Who is keeping the list? Who has the actual list here?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer, thank you for your point of order.

As mentioned, the clerk assists me in maintaining a list on the points of order. On the list on the motion, I've been tracking who the speakers are. We have had members come into the meeting and leave the meeting. Some members may not be present, so the list changes.

Mr. Genuis has put up his hand today to speak, so he is on the list, as he did in the previous meeting. Mr. Dreeshen has also added his name.

If there are other members who would like to go on the list, you can ask if you're on the list. If you're not, I can add you to the list, as I've been doing. Ms. Dabrusin has been the list for several meetings. I've had Ms. Dabrusin there. Mr. Simard has also been on the list.

We have the main motion and we have the amendment. Then we have the subamendment, and what I'm referring to right now is the subamendment.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

There's also the issue that members who might not physically be present in the room but were on the list before have not told you that they do not want to be on the list. There's nothing to say that I'm on the speakers list when I have to go to the bathroom and I get up and leave. Well, Mr. Patzer is not in the room, so even though my turn might not be immediately next, that doesn't mean that I remove myself from the list.

I think we have to be careful what we're doing by saying that the list is constantly changing here. I recognize that we have had Mr. Genuis in the meeting quite a bit. He's also left the meeting already today. He wasn't one of the voting members of the committee, but there's nothing to say that he didn't put himself on that list with the full intention of returning to speak to whatever the thing is. I don't even know what the list contains. We've been trying to find what that is from you anyway.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I'm just going to respond very quickly and then I'm going to you, Mr. Angus, on a point of order.

Just before you go ahead, after members speak, they are moved off the list. That's one way a member will be removed off a list. Mr. Genuis has been added to the list and Mr. Dreeshen has been added to the list. If the turn of the member comes, they will be acknowledged, as we've arranged the order.

Thank you.

I'll go to you, Mr. Angus, on the point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I don't mind chipping in to provide a basic parliamentary guide for Mr. Patzer, but I don't think it would help him. This is again an attempt to interfere and undermine. The fact is that it took six meetings for me to even be allowed to speak because the Conservatives have obstructed, interfered and used abusive tactics again and again. Now Ms. Dabrusin has the floor, and they are attempting to stop her from speaking.

Mr. Patzer wants to know who's on the order. She's on the order. She has the floor. He doesn't. She keeps getting interrupted by his behaviour.

I would ask you, Chair, to restore order and to remind the Conservatives that their tactics are interfering with and undermining the rights of other members of the committee to participate.

When Ms. Dabrusin is finished, the next person gets the floor. This is basic parliamentary reality. This is how it's been done. The Conservatives can jump up and down and interfere and play games, but they are stopping the work of our parliamentary committee that must go forward.

Chair, I continue to support you. If the Conservatives don't like it, they should challenge the chair; otherwise, they should grow up, start respecting their colleagues and let people speak.

I would like to hear what Ms. Dabrusin has to say.