Official Languages Committee on May 1st, 2014

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I want to understand what the CRTC's role is in ensuring that the CBC provides diversified and quality programming in both languages. Or does it have a role?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

You better believe it, Madam, that it has a role. It used to be every five years, and the last time we had to wait 13 years, but it brings us in front of it. It looks at the contribution of the CBC in what we famously call the “media ecosystem” in the country.

It understands the mandate that we have. After hearing a number of intervening parties—and we did this in November 2012—it establishes the conditions of licence under which we can actually broadcast our services across the country. When I spoke about the conditions of licence, that's what I was referring to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Before we go to Mr. Chisu, there have been discussions, I understand, amongst members from the various parties, and there's a consensus that we would like to go to 10:45 a.m. for this discussion, and move the discussion of the debate regarding Monsieur Godin's motion to another meeting.

If you're amenable to that, Monsieur Lacroix, we'd like to go for an extra 15 minutes.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We'll do whatever the committee wants to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you for your co-operation and I'll give the floor to Mr. Chisu.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. Lacroix, for your presentation. It was an excellent presentation. I now understand a lot of the things that the CBC is doing.

I know that the CBC has a mandate, which is very clearly described in the Broadcasting Act. Of course, I consider this as a limitation, that you need to work inside this act.

I was looking at your fiscal picture and I see that on March 31, 2013, you had $646 million for revenues and you received from the Government of Canada approximately $1.1 billion. I also see that the revenue, for example, from 2012 to 2013 dropped by 6.2% and the government financial contribution dropped only by 0.6%.

Looking at your great management skills, how do you plan to increase the revenues at the CBC in the future? There is a place for it and I think that you will be able to do it. I'm confident that you have a plan for it.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I have a couple of things to say first.

The mandate comes from the Broadcasting Act. The CRTC also enforces the mandate on CBC/Radio-Canada. When I sat in front of the chairman and the CRTC in November 2012, the first thing that the CRTC chairman said when he looked at us was, “We expect you to deliver a wide range of programming to Canadians that basically informs, enlightens, and entertains them. Please go ahead and show me how you're going to do this”.

This was an environment which had a number of actors in it. Over time that has changed. Yes, increasing revenues is key. To be able to increase revenues, you need levers. The levers that we have—and that was my hint of a few minutes ago—are limited to the conventional advertising environment.

Conventional advertising, as you know, has been eroding. When this mandate was drawn, you didn't have 742 different channels on your satellite beamed into your home in 1991. You had a very specific number of broadcasters. There were a very specific number of platforms on which you actually showed television or listened to radio, and the number of players were not integrated like they are now.

That was the model. That was the model that funded us over the years. Revenues started moving on the digital piece, we adapted to that. As you know, we have a very, very strong presence in digital, but we don't have 52 speciality channels like Rogers or Bell to take revenues and actually support the conventional network. Hence, the conversation we had a few years ago with value for signal, and how important it is. Because, as you know.... Do you have a cable or a satellite bill, sir?

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I have a cable bill.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

On your cable bill, when you pay, let's say $50 a month, $0 of that amount comes to CBC, to Radio-Canada, to CTV, or to TVA—$0. That's because the broadcaster, the distribution unit—Bell, or whatever in your environment—takes our signal off air and sends it back to you in its package.

We said to Bell a few years ago that we think that has value and we should be paid some dollars. They're taking our signal and making a business model and a business out of it. Our arguments were not upheld. It actually went up to the Supreme Court. It's a complicated story, and we won't go there.

To answer your question, we are looking at maximizing our revenues on our television piece. We are looking at maximizing the revenues on the digital piece. We trying to shrink our real estate environment. We're trying to sell some of the places we have, to transform ourselves into tenants. We're trying to rent out the space that we create; that's rental revenues.

There are only two ways for us to do this. Either we increase the revenues or we reduce our costs, in an environment where the shrinking pie of advertising revenues that we have access to is smaller and smaller.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much.

The CBC is a great corporation, and it has around 8,000 employees. Of course, that's a lot of employees who are my age. They are baby boomers; they are retiring, and so on.

How are you working with Canada's francophone and bilingual universities to ensure that new graduates have the technical skills needed to work in the industry that is rapidly changing, as we know?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Chisu.

Madam Pleszczyska.

[Patricia Pleszczynska]

Thank you.

We do work with the universities. We in fact have programs where we create internships, with Université Laval, in Quebec City; with Université de Montréal. We use internship programs to ensure we have young people coming in to get training on how Radio-Canada does business...and then sending them out into the regions for replacement work during the summer, frankly. Often, these young people will end up being recruits and getting jobs in some of our regions across the country.

I wish there were more francophone universities, and francophone universities outside of Quebec, that could supply us with staffing. One of the discussions we've had for years with collège Saint-Boniface has been effectively that we need a journalism program there. We have encouraged them to build one. We've given them all kinds of support and all kinds of ideas, and I hope that some day that will happen. Ideally, we would have students becoming journalists in francophone communities out west who come from there and remain there, as opposed to being a revolving door for young student journalists from Quebec going out west and then coming back to Montreal.

We do work with them, mainly with internship programs, and many of our top journalists or managers lecture and spend time within classes to familiarize people with what Radio-Canada does and how we work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Mr. Chairman, if you would allow me one second, I'd like Shelagh to tell you what we do at Concordia also. That will give you an idea of what CBC does, just as an example, in Quebec.

[Shelagh Kinch, Managing Director, English Services in Quebec, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

We have the same thing as Radio-Canada. We have an internship with the journalism school at Concordia. We bring students in for the summer on paid internships so they can develop the skills they need, so that when they graduate we have somebody prepared to come into the business.

The other thing we're doing now, which we've started recently with the journalism program, is that we're working with the digital class. Their final projects are posted on the CBC Montreal website.They get the experience of working in a real newsroom and doing a project that we oversee and work with them on. We understand what their skills are and what they can bring to us. That project was started this year, and we're going to continue, on a term-by-term basis, with Concordia.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Mr. Nicholls.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Lacroix, I'd like to thank you for providing us with this chart. When I look at it, the majority of these countries listed here—notably Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Finland, and the U.K.—are some of the most competitive economies in the world. I think these countries' governments are conscious that a well-informed population and increased transparency help an economy in general, and help it become more competitive.

When I look to CBC programs like the fifth estate and Enquête, these are programs that uncover corruption in our country, and in doing so help our economy. More locally to me, we have journalists like Mike Finnerty of CBC Montreal, who asks difficult questions of Quebec politicians and tries to get people engaged in the public process.

In this context, it's with sadness that I look at these cuts and at the miscomprehension of successive Liberal and Conservative governments about the value of a public broadcaster, noting, on the flip side of this, that at the very time of the explosion of channels you mention, and the explosion of media in the nineties, you have a $400-million cut from the Chrétien government.

I just have to commend you on the amazing adaptations you've made over the years. That you're still standing, that you're still providing services to Canadians around the country, I just shake my head; I commend you for the incredible adaptations you've made.

I must pass to my questions here, the majority of which will go to Ms. Kinch.

Can you give us the details, Ms. Kinch, of the cuts that will affect CBC Montreal?

[Shelagh Kinch]

We will have ten cuts, which we announced yesterday, within the CBC. At this point, I think four or five people will be walking out of the building. They had their contracts terminated and their positions declared redundant. For other people, we found ways to save positions through vacancies and through reassignments of work.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you.

I'm wondering if you're willing to meet with QCGN and ELAN to discuss how CBC intends to meet its obligations under the Official Languages Act and the conditions of its broadcasting licence towards Canada's English linguistic minority communities.

[Shelagh Kinch]

In fact just last year we had two meetings with QCGN. One was in Quebec City, where we brought people in from the régions éloignées and met with them, and with our French colleagues as well, to discuss their needs. We had another one in Montreal last year as well where we brought local groups that are under the QCGN umbrella to come in and talk about our programming.

We regularly meet with ELAN. I think it was just a couple of months ago that our manager of cultural affairs and our manager of communications met with ELAN to discuss our programming. At the same time, we are offering them now pitch workshops—that is, how can they get their stories to us in a way that will get them onto the CBC so that we can address the concerns of the English-speaking communities?

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

So the collaboration will continue on this?

[Shelagh Kinch]

Yes, we will meet with them.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Wonderful.

[Shelagh Kinch]

Sorry; that really was your question.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Yes.

As well, the CRTC recently made it a condition of licence that the CBC will not spend less than 6% of its national English-language programming budget in Quebec. The CRTC also expects that CBC English Quebec independent production will not fall below 12% of their national independent production budget.

How is CBC planning to implement these conditions of licence, and how will CBC report on these investments in a way that is transparent and meaningful?