Status of Women Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

That's great.

Obviously, it's a priority.

[Serge Jetté]

Yes, it is.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Great.

I will ask Madam Savoie the same questions.

[Linda Savoie]

Of course we are in very different circumstances, being 90 employees in total. Everyone has multiple responsibilities. We do not have a dedicated person who does only that.

Our approach has been to integrate our values and ethics, respect for people's values, and harassment discussions, into a number of approaches. For instance, we have “Executive News”, which is sent to employees. The head of the agency will speak to an issue around values or respect. We have training. We have that values and ethics three-year plan. We integrate our—

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Unfortunately, I have to stop you there, Ms. Savoie, because Ms. Young's time is up. Thank you very much.

It is now Ms. Ashton's turn for five minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

I will start off and then pass it on to my colleague, Madam Hassainia.

What we have heard on various occasions to this point, and certainly because of the RCMP, but more in general, is that Canadians are wanting to see, and we want to see, a champion when it comes to an effective approach around sexual harassment. There has been a fair bit of work done around training and a framework that makes it clear what is and isn't acceptable and what happens when sexual harassment takes place.

Going back to your previous point, Madam Savoie, around the lack of dedicated staff working with the RCMP, or perhaps with others, around specific experiences of sexual harassment in the workplace, I am a bit alarmed that there hasn't been a kind of champion's mentality given to you. Again, this is not your decision, but it seems to me that we would want to see a department, and what better department than the Status of Women, take the lead role in this.

Some years back, in 2006, Status of Women Canada suffered a $5 million cut, which was 37% of its budget. I am wondering what departments—and perhaps if your department—were affected by those cuts.

[Linda Savoie]

I'm not sure I'm getting the question, I'm afraid.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

I will just clarify. Did the $5 million cut mean jobs were lost in your specific division and/or among other people working for Status of Women Canada who may or may not have played a role in dealing with sexual harassment or building a more respectful workplace for women across Canada?

[Linda Savoie]

Thank you for clarifying that.

There were some job cuts, but they had no effect on our mandate for Status of Women relating to sexual harassment in the workplace. Our role has been to coordinate policy and provide advice on policies and programs that affect Canadians, not federal employees.

That was also the case during those years.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Where were those jobs? In which divisions of Status of Women did people lose jobs?

[Linda Savoie]

I am familiar with the job cuts in the programming area, which is the arm of the department that provides funding for projects and communities across the country. We've reorganized our resources and continue to deliver our services but with a different model.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

I appreciate that answer.

I'd like to go back to the answer that was shared with us initially about there not being a need for dedicated staff to deal with the RCMP or whoever might be experiencing a really serious situation. If everybody can deal with that stuff, then when we lose some, and 37% is no small number, even with reorganization, it seems to me there is a lack of capacity. Certainly two or three gender-based analysis experts indicate as much.

That certainly shows how important it is to have this work done openly in workplaces across the country.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Is that a point of order, Ms. Young? What is it about?

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, I find that the questioner is putting words into the witness's mouth. She's already said that they're not responsible for sexual harassment policies across the bureaucracy. That's not their role or mission.

I would ask her to please not put words into the witness's mouth.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

That is not a point of order, Ms. Young. However, I would ask our members to stick to the study on sexual harassment.

Ms. Ashton, you have 40 seconds left.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much.

With respect to Treasury Board, women and men have expressed that if they come forward with allegations of harassment, they fear retribution. What's in place to make it clear that won't be the case?

[Serge Jetté]

There is often that fear and all kinds of other fears related to that. We are trying to inform the complainant as much as possible about the mechanisms in place to protect against reprisal and about the neutrality and fairness of the process.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

I am sorry, Mr. Jetté, but I have to stop you there. Thank you very much. It is sometimes ungrateful to interrupt people like that, but I don't have a choice.

The floor now goes to Ms. James for five minutes.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome to our guests.

I have a question directed to the Treasury Board. Ms. Sgro and Ms. Truppe referred to records being shredded or set aside, tossed, eliminated, and so on, after two years. I'm just wondering how that applies to a particular individual if maybe a second incident occurs, whether it's related to the same individual or perhaps a second individual. What happens? Are those files linked together? Is it one file with multiple dates? Will that file be shredded based on the date the file was opened or the date of the last incident?

[Serge Jetté]

I can tell you that we keep the file for two years. If there is another incident, it will be put in the same employee file for which there have been two incidents. When there is a new incident, labour relations keeps the file. They don't destroy anything. Let's say you have a harassment complaint, and then a year later another complaint comes in. Both complaints will remain on file for two years.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

In theory, it could be three years for the first incident that was logged. Would it still be on file for three years at that point, based on your example?

[Serge Jetté]

That's my understanding of how the labour relations files are maintained.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I've asked other witnesses this question. It's been referred to as the million dollar question. I'm glad that you pointed this out, because it's clearly in your statement that there have been zero formal sexual harassment complaints filed at Treasury Board. Yet, in the survey done, as you said, 28% said they had a perception of harassment.

As politicians, most of us have very thick skin, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Certain things that may bother another individual roll off my back, personally. When we get into the issue of perception, that's a very difficult thing to identify. I'm going to narrow it down to the second set. You said that 91% of employees felt that “everyone in their work unit is accepted as an equal member of the team, regardless of race, colour, sex or disability”. There is 9% missing from that equation.

I'm wondering, based on the 9% who responded, whether there was any type of trend. Were the respondents who were not happy with that particular question found in one area? Did you see a focus?

[Serge Jetté]

No, we don't have any breakdown of the 9%, as to why they answered that way.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Was it anonymous? Was there no name on the survey ? Okay, I guess you can't answer that question. Thank you.

My next question is directed to the Status of Women. In your opening remarks, you talked about developing a three-year values and ethics plan, and then you said that earlier this year, an organizational code of conduct was launched. Is this a booklet, guidebook, presentation, memos, or is it simply a plaque sitting on someone's wall?

Being from the private sector, I know that sometimes a company will launch something and it sounds great, but what does it actually mean? What is the organizational code of conduct?