Evidence of meeting #49 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Agence métropolitaine de transport, Urban Transit Authorities
Indeed, the bill would hold AMT responsible before Transport Canada of the host companies, which implies a weighty obligation and also represents a duplication of the railway safety work already being done.
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
Yes, it is, although we have an excellent working relationship with Transport Canada. We don't need to change the relationship to make it work; it's working very well today. And whether it's through the class one railways or in some cases, as pointed out by Doug Kelsey, that Transport Canada works directly with us today, it works very well. So, again, our view would be don't change something that already works.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
3:55 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink), Urban Transit Authorities
I'm of the belief, as others have already commented, that, again, it's not required. I think we've all tried to approach our business as if the taxpayer were sitting in the room with us as we conduct our business. What is reasonable and appropriate? Looking at this legislation, very clearly, in the definition of an “urban transit authority”, if I look in Vancouver, by our own provincial legislation we also have responsibility for roads, for bridges. Even at the commuter rail, we have parking lots. We have all kinds of technical things that I think are even beyond the contemplation of what the definition of UTA might be within this legislation.
I think also, specifically, that you also do not want multiple regulators, whether provincial or federal, dealing with somewhat similar interfacing responsibilities. I think what's really important here is we do not want to harm our relationship with the class one railways. It's very important in an operating sense. And we're quite comfortable through and with Transport Canada to continue this relationship. To Mr. Percy's comments earlier, I think we're all very proud of our leadership relationship with Transport Canada, and we really want that to continue, but it doesn't mean you need regulation to accomplish this.
In my mind, legislation should be indicative, in the case of urban transit authorities, that all other avenues have been exhausted. And I would suggest MOUs have not been attempted, other practices have not.... If there are things that are missing, we should absolutely further that conversation, but legislation, in my mind, as it relates to us, should be absolutely a last and needed option. So I'm very supportive of the positions of both Ms. Fréchette and Mr. Percy.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
And thanks to the witnesses for coming today.
I see you have some very important issues surrounding this particular legislation. I would really appreciate it if you could present those arguments in written form at some point in time to us in committee, so that we can examine them in more detail. This is something that I think would be really helpful.
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
We actually did provide a technical paper much more substantial than my speaking notes, in French and English, which we'd be happy to give you another copy of.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Okay, thanks very much.
Basically, when you're talking about regulation within the urban transit authority, how does it divide between municipal, provincial, and federal government right now?
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
The municipalities are more.... They are not in terms of railway regulation; they are more involved in terms of the railroads as interfacing with communities, in terms of adhering to municipal guidelines in terms of how we build certain things. It's mainly—
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
Fences, level crossings, that kind of thing, graffiti, garbage, things like that. Those are important neighbourhood issues, as I would call them.
4 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
They are huge safety issues as well. We see most of the deaths that are occurring in relationship to railways right now are occurring because of access and level-crossing issues.
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
That's true.
4 p.m.
NDP
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
I would say it's the same for the railway industry in North America. By definition, railways are porous. You can argue this one at length, but right to the land use planning, if you put a school on one side of the tracks and a strip mall on the other, kids take the shortest distance between two points.
4 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Okay. Where do the standards come for those things for the urban transit authorities?
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
Transport Canada has certain standards, and we certainly follow those. There are specific engineering standards through AREMA, the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association, which is a North American-accepted engineering standards association. We adhere to those.
So we already adhere to—
4 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
And a municipality, does it set standards in terms of where you can provide access--and where you don't provide access, where you might provide pedestrian overpasses, where you might do fencing?
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
They are stakeholders to that, yes. They get involved in setbacks, that kind of thing, for fencing and structures.
4 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
So you'd say that if the municipality is doing that, then the standards are not the same across the country?
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
Some are.
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
Absolutely there are, and I would say the freight, the inter-city passenger train, and commuter train all take the high road and adhere to the higher standard because it's good business to do that. But they may vary across Canada; I can't really speak to that that well.
But I did just want to speak to the difference between provincial and federal. Certainly the Province of Ontario does not regulate railways itself. They actually have an agreement with Transport Canada to regulate on their behalf. That's specific to short lines and freight railways, and commuter as well.
Commuter is different. I'll give you an example. With GO Transit, GO actually owns, and in April will own 61% of its rail corridor, and is deemed unregulated. This Bill C-33 deals, for us, with the other 39%, which is where we run over CN or CP.
