Evidence of meeting #49 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
Certainly. GO Transit actually owns or will own 61% of the corridor over which it operates in April of this year. The province has supported GO in acquiring its own corridor from the class ones. So GO's interests for Bill C-33 deal with the other 39%, where we run over CN or CP rail.
We are deemed unregulated for the GO-owned corridor. We have already approached Transport Canada, saying that we're uncomfortable with that and would like their regulation. We're actually working with Transport Canada and the province, through MTO, on how we create that regulation over GO-owned track today. I'd like to think that's representative of the fact that we want to be regulated. We're comfortable with being regulated, but it's a different form of regulation from what is outlined in Bill C-33.
4 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
It seems to me that it's very complex already. It's not an easy matter to deal with the regulations.
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Agence métropolitaine de transport, Urban Transit Authorities
I might add that, in Quebec, we have the Act to Ensure Safety in Guided Land Transport, that covers the entire territory of the province. As far as provincial jurisdictional issues are concerned, we are regulated by the province.
With regard to best practices, that Mr. Percy spoke of, we set benchmarks, if I may use the term, based on the best that exists in the world. Furthermore, we belong to the APTA, the American Public Transportation Association, and we work with the UTP in Europe so as to ensure that we have the best practices.
Within the territory of the province, on those railways belonging to railway companies, it really is the federal regulation that applies, and the companies are responsible for enforcing it. For our part, within our contractual arrangements, we ensure that they respect federal legislation. One of the differences resides in the fact that we are to ensure that those authorities responsible for the railways respect this regulation. That is where we find that an additional responsibility, that does not fall under our jurisdiction, is imposed, given that this is also interference. Furthermore, it adds considerable costs for the transportation agencies. In the end, it is the taxpayer who pays for these costs.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for appearing here today.
I don't know. I think in putting your best foot forward you're almost making the argument that you should have nothing to fear from being regulated under Bill C-33.
Let me just make sure that I understand this correctly in terms of accountability. It's your position, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you want to remain accountable to CN and CP through the terms of your contracts with them instead of having a direct regulatory relationship with Transport Canada with respect to Bill C-33. Am I understanding that? Is that a fair summation?
4:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
Today Transport Canada goes through the class one railways on certain ways that we run our businesses. For other pieces, we go directly to Transport Canada without going through the railways. We would say that this works today.
4:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
I would say that it's a yes.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
So I did understand it correctly.
For the record, with respect to the railway safety review report, CN, in its ranking by the expert panel on safety culture, gets a one out of five, and CP gets a two out of five.
You mentioned GO's future plans with respect to purchasing rail corridor to the point that there would be 61% ownership. What is the percentage of ownership of rail lines for GO currently today?
4:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Greater Toronto Transit Authority; Urban Transit Authorities
It is 54%.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
It's 54%, okay. What about UTAs more broadly speaking? How much federal track are they running on versus provincial? I'm told that it's somewhere close to 80% when you take the national number in.
4:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Agence métropolitaine de transport, Urban Transit Authorities
For Montreal AMT, at least 90% will be federal.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink), Urban Transit Authorities
The West Coast Express in Vancouver is 100% on Canadian Pacific Railway.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Right. I mean, if you're running on federal track, it would seem almost logical to me that you should be federally regulated if anyone else who is running on that track has to be regulated.
You already have costs to comply indirectly, do you not, by virtue of your relationship of running on federal track? Are there not indirect costs to comply with federal regulation?
4:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Operations, Agence métropolitaine de transport, Urban Transit Authorities
I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
I'm sorry. The question was whether or not UTAs experience costs of complying with federal regulation indirectly by running on federal rail lines.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink), Urban Transit Authorities
Right now the indirect costs are reasonable. But if you look at the bill as it's written today, you can see the legislation as taken in proposed subsection 17.4(2):
A railway operating certificate may contain any terms and conditions that the Minister considers appropriate.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink), Urban Transit Authorities
That, to me, is carte blanche.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
The act also provides that you'd be consulted with respect to what requirements go into regulation. That's not satisfactory, that Transport Canada would gain an appropriate understanding of the unique aspects you face as an urban transit authority?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink), Urban Transit Authorities
Consultation is a relative thing. I would suggest that the consultation on this bill has been minimal, frankly, behind the scenes, with us. I would really question the degree of consultation here.
For me, the fact of the matter--and the reason we're here today--is that we weren't consulted in, I'd say, a serious manner; otherwise, I don't believe this would be justified to be here.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
What new costs would you be incurring? On one hand, I think Mr. Percy mentioned that there was the cost of keeping records; on the other hand, he argues we're keeping records already. I'd like to understand exactly what costs you would be incurring.
