Evidence of meeting #26 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bridge.
A video is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
The general public and the parliamentarians are not stakeholders in that.
10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
Well, they would probably, I guess, learn things, Mr. Chair, through their fellow members of Parliament and the minister.
10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
To formally consult parliamentarians?
10 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
—except through publication in the Canada Gazette, with a 90-day comment period.
10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
It depends. I don't know how many people are reading the Canada Gazette, part I.
10 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
Well, we are.
Mr. Chair, moving on to the joint Regulatory Cooperation Council, the joint action plan in terms of rail safety had one line. It said, “Align rail safety standards and establish a joint mechanism to conduct periodic review of regulations.”
How does removing things from publication in the Canada Gazette do that?
10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
Mr. Chair, as I mentioned earlier, when you have two groups of stakeholders and two regulators on both sides of the border coming to agreement very early in the regulatory process on an acceptable set of standards, and when you get to the point where you might have given notice for people who didn't know about it, there are very few people who don't know about it at that stage. So, it's more effective, if cabinet deems it more effective, to go ahead with formal enactment.
10 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
But this is just for the Canadian side. This isn't aligning with the U.S. There's no.... Is there a prepublication requirement in the U.S. that's not there that we're aligning with? What is the driving force? Is it just to give more power to the minister, or is it really to align some regulation?
10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
I can't speak for the U.S. process, Mr. Chair.
10 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
Okay, that's what I wanted to know, that this doesn't have to do with aligning ourselves with the U.S.
In the containment of dangerous goods, the joint action plan suggests that we will work to better align U.S. and Canadian standards on the containment of dangerous goods. Clearly we're having some difficulty with that because the U.S. is moving at a different speed than we are and in different directions.
How does this great new change in legislation affect that?
10:05 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
Well, Mr. Chair, the Canada Gazette process is a process of giving notice. Everything else about our respective regulatory processes—the testing, economic analysis, and review of risks—continues to happen. Nothing else changes. This is really talking about eliminating where it is justified, according to cabinet's criteria, the notice in the Canada Gazette, part I.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
10:05 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
They are actually in the cabinet directive on regulatory management.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
10:05 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
Absolutely.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
Okay. With regard to how urgent a rail safety matter is, is that freely readable in that cabinet directive? You mentioned earlier that some things would be more urgent than others, and therefore would require more time.
10:05 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
Well, Mr. Chair, I don't think we're making this amendment to deal with urgencies specifically. The minister has emergency powers. We just issued an emergency directive to VIA Rail, for example. This is not to expedite the regulatory process where it shouldn't be expedited. This is just giving cabinet the option of forgoing notice in the Canada Gazette, part I, when there's really no justifiable reason for doing so any more.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
How will we determine whether there's no justifiable reason?
10:05 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
That would be determined by cabinet on the basis of the criteria in the cabinet directive.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Mike Sullivan NDP York South—Weston, ON
Another piece in the joint action plan on regulatory cooperation is greenhouse gas emissions and pollution from locomotives. Is there anything in what we've done so far to harmonize our regulations with those of the U.S.? Ours are much laxer than the U.S. regulations are in this regard.
10:05 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
Mr. Chair, that particular initiative is actually one where Canada is aligning with the U.S. standard, I believe. I can't speak to the specific initiative, or any of the initiatives for that matter, since I'm not working in those programs. But it may well be that under the appropriate enabling legislation there is no requirement to prepublish, as is the case in most federal statutes.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Mr. Sullivan, you're out of time.
Mr. McGuinty, for five minutes.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
There are a couple of things, Mr. Chair. A number of assertions have been made by the witnesses in response to Conservative questioning that are a little bit astonishing.
Mr. Ram, you're quoted as saying that safety is your first priority. I believe you mean that. The problem is that when Canadians look at the numbers, in the public accounts, 2012-13, road safety has been cut 5.5%; marine safety has been cut 25%; aviation has been cut 11%; VIA Rail has been cut 15%. That's an astonishing statement. I believe you have to say what you have to say, but the government isn't putting its money where its mouth is.
Mr. Leclerc, you repeat ad nauseam that this is just a technical amendment, that the vast majority of regulations do not require prepublication. If I were to stop any municipal leader or city councillor in a municipality where trains run through with dozens, if not hundreds, of cars with dangerous goods on the back of them, and I told them that we were making these amendments because it was about a technical amendment to bring things up to speed with others, I think, in response to your claim that the majority of regulations don't require prepublication, most people would answer with the question, “So what?”
We've seen a 31,000% increase in oil by rail. We could have a million barrels a day of excess capacity by 2024 if every pipeline in Canada is used to the fullest extent. That's all going on rail, or perhaps even by truck.
Ms. Pham, if I could go to your last testimony on the bridge, what will the toll be, per car, to use that bridge on a daily basis?
10:05 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal Montreal Bridges, Department of Transport
The toll rate has not been set yet. We are still looking at scenarios. We're also looking at the toll rates that are used around the greater Montreal area. That's part of the study right now, Mr. Chair.