Evidence of meeting #26 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bridge.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
I'll give the floor to Mr. Leclerc, who will give you some details of what we're talking about.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Very quickly, Mr. Leclerc, because we have only seven-minute rounds.
May 13th, 2014 / 9:10 a.m.
Michel Leclerc Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
Okay.
Actually, the cabinet directive on regulatory management already requires prepublication of regulations in the Canada Gazette, part I. The reason for eliminating this requirement is that one already exists in cabinet policy.
Canadians would still receive notice of proposed regulations when cabinet directs that regulations that are particularly significant are proposed for enactment.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay, let's just parse through the words here.
You say there's a cabinet directive that already compels the publication of these regulations. Is that right?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
That's correct.
9:10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
It's at the discretion of cabinet.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
It's not.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
So we should be very, very clear here and honest about what's going on.
Right now we have mandatory disclosure up to 90 days before regulations are passed, so Canadians from any walk of life can find out what's going on in rail safety. Now we're saying that it will be up to cabinet, aren't we?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
It will not be entirely.
9:10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
It will not be, because the other elements of the cabinet directive that one has to take into account are the mandatory consultations, and those are documented in the regulatory impact analysis statement that accompanies every regulation. Before a regulation is actually proposed for formal enactment, there are ample consultations with people, and if it's deemed that the issue is very significant, as would be some of the rail crossings—
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Who makes the decision as to when it is deemed one way or the other?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport
It's cabinet.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
I see.
Let's just get it on the record, Mr. Chairman, for Canadians who are watching. This is another power grab by cabinet, which wants to make sure that it controls what Canadians see or do not see within a 30- or 90-day window before a regulation is passed.
Let's move on, if we can, to the bridge question.
Madam Pham, you gave a good, very quick synopsis. Pre-feasibility, you said, was done. In 2011 they announced a new bridge. In 2013 construction was accelerated. In 2018—you repeated today what the minister repeated the last time he bothered to show up here—the bridge will be in service. It'll be ready to roll, says Minister Lebel, by 2018.
Now that's a very, very tall order and story for Canadians to believe. We don't even have a private sector partner yet on this bridge, do we?
9:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal Montreal Bridges, Department of Transport
Mr. Chair, the procurement process started with the announcement in December 2013, a couple of months ago.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal Montreal Bridges, Department of Transport
We are in the process of selecting the private partner.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal Montreal Bridges, Department of Transport
We will have a private partner selected in the spring of 2015.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
That will be in a year from now, in 2015. We're being told that the bridge is going to be built at a cost of $3 billion to $5 billion and it is going to be operational by 2018. Is that right?
9:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal Montreal Bridges, Department of Transport
Mr. Chair, that is correct.
We also want to make sure that the procurement process has all of the integrity elements included in it. As you all know, this project is a project in the order of $3 billion to $5 billion, so we want to make sure that the bidders and the procurement process include all of the integrity framework, and therefore—
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
As you should.
I feel for you, Ms. Pham, because in 2006 when this government took power, they were forewarned in all the briefing documents that were transferred to PMO, PCO, and each respective industry that this bridge was a big problem. In fact, in 2011, they were given a secret briefing note that said the bridge “was in 'poor condition' and required 'comprehensive strengthening and other repairs' to avoid jeopardizing public safety.”
You're telling us you're going to build a $3 billion to $5 billion bridge in three years after a private sector partner is chosen. Can you tell us whether you have done any analysis or examination of the distributive effects? That is, once this government puts a toll on this bridge, which is the busiest bridge in Canada and one of the most important for our economy, what will the effects be? What analysis have you done to show the effects on other bridges, on public transit, and on other roadways in the Montreal area?
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal Montreal Bridges, Department of Transport
Mr. Chairman, the answer to that question is that we did preliminary analysis that was part of the business case, and it was shown that there might be some diversion, but given that we still have data gaps, we are in the process of obtaining more information. We do have traffic counters on the bridge to ensure that we have as accurate as possible the projections in terms of traffic diversion.