Debates of Oct. 17th, 2005

John McCallum Minister of National Revenue

Mr. Speaker, the government will pay Mr. Dingwall only what legal counsel advises us that we must. There is currently an independent audit re-examining his expenses. I am pleased to inform the House that the results of the audit will be released by Wednesday of this week.

Stephen Harper Leader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister wants to pay severance to David Dingwall, he should be able to stand up and defend it himself.

In a third example, a newly released audit of travel expenses at the federal fisheries department has uncovered yet more horror stories. Unauthorized claims, vacations on the public dollar and luxury flight bookings are only some of the examples.

Why can the Prime Minister not get a grip on the pervasive misuse of tax dollars throughout his government?

Geoff Regan Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

Mr. Speaker, in fact this audit was initiated proactively by my department to improve its management of hospitality and travel. In fact, the department has lowered its expenses in this area of travel and hospitality by almost 20% over the past three years.

This audit is valuable. It shows we have more work to do, but it is under way.

Loyola Hearn St. John's South, NL

Mr. Speaker, the recent audit of DFO travel and hospitality files has uncovered a litany of abuses involving the expenditures of taxpayers' money. Despite the examples of atrocious abuse that were provided, no individuals are being disciplined or investigated.

Will the minister explain why he continues the Liberal policy of ignoring scandals even though this one happened on the present Prime Minister's watch?

Geoff Regan Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is wrong. The first thing he should know, in fact, is that this report covers a period that ended on March 31, 2004, when this administration had been here for only three or four months. More important, let me assure my hon. colleague that where appropriate and required, moneys will be recovered and disciplinary action will be taken.

Loyola Hearn St. John's South, NL

Mr. Speaker, let me ask a more timely question, then. How can the minister explain his department spending $42 million on travel and hospitality while Coast Guard boats were tied up to wharves around this country because they could not afford fuel?

Geoff Regan Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is a member of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, which recently met in St. John's and summoned Mr. Henry Lear from our science department here in Ottawa to appear before it. Is the hon. member saying this kind of travel that he asked for is inappropriate?

Gilles Duceppe Laurier, QC

Mr. Speaker, regarding the child care funding agreement, the Prime Minister promised during the heat of an election campaign that Quebec would receive its share of funding with no strings attached. But in an interview, he just said the exact opposite, namely that Quebec would have to account.

How can the Prime Minister justify so blatantly failing to keep his word? Can he explain the discrepancy between what he promised during the last election campaign and what he said just a few days ago?

Paul Martin Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, first, the Government of Quebec is accountable to its people. All we said was that the provinces would be accountable to their people, as Quebec already is.

Gilles Duceppe Laurier, QC

Mr. Speaker, following the Prime Minister's logic, day care centres are of national interest because immigrants and Aboriginal people, among others, attend day care. Immigrants and Aboriginal people attend primary school. Does that make primary school a federal jurisdiction? Some of them get treated in hospitals. Does that make hospitals a federal jurisdiction? Perhaps this is something he does not know, but there are even some living in municipalities. Does that make municipalities a federal jurisdiction?

Does the Prime Minister realize that his logic is absolutely preposterous?

Paul Martin Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, no one said that child care centres were a federal jurisdiction. We are familiar with the different jurisdictions and we respect them.

Is the hon. member suggesting that our children are not of national interest? They are. They fall under provincial jurisdiction, yet are national interest.

Michel Gauthier Roberval, QC

Mr. Speaker, there is another area regarding which the Prime Minister really did not keep his word, and I am referring to municipalities. Just before the last election, on June 18, 2004, he said he had no intention of interfering in provincial jurisdictions.

How could the Prime Minister allow himself, just before the election, to make such a statement to please voters when, after the election, we are finding out in a document obtained by La Presse , that Ottawa wants to hold summits directly with municipalities? Is the Prime Minister not ashamed to say one thing before the election and to do the opposite after?

John Godfrey Minister of State (Infrastructure and Communities)

Mr. Speaker, we have always respected provincial jurisdictions when it comes to municipalities. At the same time, since our cities and communities are the target of our social, environmental and economic efforts, we should work closely with Quebec departments to understand Quebec's priorities at the municipal level and support them in the area of infrastructure, among others.

Michel Gauthier Roberval, QC

Mr. Speaker, according to the same document, the government wants to avoid setting up merely a banking machine. It wants to have a say about the infrastructure. It also wants to get recognition and visibility.

Did this government not learn any lessons from the sponsorship scandal, which was a visibility scheme? Now, it intends to set up, through municipalities, its own visibility program, thus reneging once again on a promise made before the election.