Bill S-12 (Historical)

Incorporation by Reference in Regulations Act

An Act to amend the Statutory Instruments Act and to make consequential amendments to the Statutory Instruments Regulations

This enactment amends the Statutory Instruments Act to provide for the express power to incorporate by reference in regulations. It imposes an obligation on regulation-making authorities to ensure that a document, index, rate or number that is incorporated by reference is accessible. It also provides that a person is not liable to be found guilty of an offence or subjected to an administrative sanction for a contravention relating to a document, index, rate or number that is incorporated by reference unless certain requirements in relation to accessibility are met. Finally, it makes consequential amendments to the Statutory Instruments Regulations.

Incorporation by Reference in Regulations Act

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

The foreign investment protection act is another piece of legislation that just went through. The foreign investment protection act means if we change legislation regulations in Canada and it does not fit what the foreign investors had expected from our country, then they have the right to complain, to take action.

All of a sudden now we are in a position where regulations that are decided somewhere else by someone else other than this Parliament can make that a probability, perhaps a reality. Those are things we have to think about with this.

We are changing the way we are doing business. Is the way we are changing doing business the way we want to do that? I would say right now that, to me, amendments to the bill are needed.

I understand why people want to have the bill, the necessity to do the things that make sense with the bill. It is good to have regulations that can recognize inflation and the changing nature of our society, that can do those things that make sense. I do not have a problem with that. I am in favour of that, but I am not in favour of impeding our sovereignty in any way through changing the way we make regulations. That is clear. I do not have to think twice about that.

When we talk about Bill S-8, about the safety of drinking water on our first nations reserves, we are talking about a law that enables regulations, and those regulations will probably be made in provinces. Those provinces will change those regulations for safe drinking water as time goes on. That is the reality of the situation.

We have a fiduciary responsibility to first nations in the government. We need to ensure that any changes that are made to regulations are run by the first nations to whom we will apply this law. Therefore, we need to have the opportunity to look at changes, to consult with our first nations about changes that are made by provinces if we adopt their regulations to govern safe drinking water on first nations reserves. There is another instance of why we need to look at this legislation.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, a few members who have spoken tonight obviously believe in the independence of the Bank of Canada, and that is a great thing. The member for Timmins—James Bay has actually said publicly that part of the NDP policy would be to interrupt that independence. I am glad to hear we have NDP members who disagree with that. Many economists believe that neutrality is very important and fundamental to the Bank of Canada.

Specific to what the member has said, sovereignty is always Canada's. We debate here in the House and we pass laws. Those laws then go to the delegated authority, whether it be a minister's office or whatnot. Regulations are created and those regulations are then put in the Gazette. The Gazette calls for open consultation. The whole process is there. Everything is lawful and has the scrutiny of Parliament. In fact, a committee is in charge of that. I would suggest the member become familiar with that.

We hear time and time again that NDP members will support the legislation but they might want to have amendments. Every member I have asked tonight has declined to point to one area where they would put forward an amendment. We know the official languages component is there. We know there is due process and we are not giving up sovereignty.

I would ask the member to bring up one amendment that he thinks needs to be brought into this bill at justice committee.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, maybe it is the late hour or perhaps that very enthusiastic member has been listening to a lot of the debate intently and perhaps he missed it when I mentioned the type of amendments I would like to see made to the bill.

I said I would like to see amendments that would ensure that any regulatory change that came through the incorporation by reference of any regulations, any of those changes that were made by any body other than the Parliament of Canada, would be subject to the scrutiny of this Parliament. That type of amendment would give us comfort that that is going to happen with this legislation.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for his speech.

This bill is far from perfect. We need only look at the work of the Senate committee and the debate that was held in the Senate to see that this bill has some serious flaws. That is why we want to study it further in committee and hear from experts to find out what can be changed.

One of the flaws in this bill is that many of the terms are rather vague, including the word “accessibility”. What is meant by accessibility? When the bill says that information is accessible, does it mean that the information is public, or does it mean that the information will be accessible to people who have special needs, for example?

Can my colleague comment on the senators' work and the flaws in this bill?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, I did not really touch on the issue of accessibility, but accessibility in terms of understanding regulation would probably be determined by the ability of whoever is dealing with these regulations to have the kind of professional assistance that is needed to wade through regulations and understand how they work.

I have been in business and I know that the regulations that are needed to conduct a business in many cases are very complex, and they require a very good understanding of them. There are many. Sometimes in business one understands the regulation but if it changes, one can be caught many times. That is a reality of life in business. A small business without the resources to ensure it has accountants and lawyers working for it to understand the regulations well may find it has innocently broken the regulations. That is the unfortunate reality of life in this country.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot tell you how relieved I am to have the opportunity to speak to this bill. I was not sure when it first came up that I wanted to speak to it, but I started to receive a lot of calls and emails from concerned Canadians, Semhar Tekeste. She said to me that I had to get in and speak to this bill and that it was very, very important. She called me so many times today. She emailed me a number of times and said that I had to get into the House and talk about this bill. She said specifically that Bill S-12, an act to amend the Statutory Instruments Act and to make consequential amendments to the statutory instruments regulations is very important, and she wanted me to come in here and speak to it. The more I looked at it, the more I thought to myself that it is a very important bill.

The member for Fort McMurray—Athabasca earlier talked about how hard his constituents work. They work 12 hours a day, and then they sometimes have to drive a couple of hours to get home. I wonder how they would feel knowing that the opposition cannot wait to get out of here. We hear so much about the orange wave, the orange tide. Apparently, the tide does not come in after 6 o'clock. After 6 o'clock that is the end of the tide. They do not want to come into work. They are too tired.

We should make no mistake. Canadians do not pay us a little to be here. All of us are very fortunate. We make $150,000 to be in this place to debate the issues that are important to Canadians, yet the NDP members want to go home. I have heard them all day talk about how lazy the Senate is, and they want to abolish the Senate. I now understand why the NDP members are so desperate to abolish the Senate. They are actually embarrassed that the Senate works harder than they do, so they want to abolish the Senate. It is actually unbelievable. Here we are in a time of global economic uncertainty, and at 10 o'clock, they have to go home. I cannot fathom that. I guess, on their behalf, I will apologize to all those Canadians who invest so much in this place.

My parents came to this country. They worked hard. I talked about this last night. They owned a pizza store when I was young. They got up at 10 o'clock every morning, and they were at the store. They worked all day and all night until 3 o'clock the next morning. They worked very hard to support the family. They never once complained. They worked extraordinarily hard, long hours. They never once complained about how difficult their lot was in life. They did not try to pass a motion to go home at 10:30. When people called the store and wanted to order pizza, they did not say they had to vote because they maybe wanted to go home early. They did not do that. They did what all other Canadians do. They worked hard. They invested in their families. They invested in their business, and they were proud to do it. I wish sometimes that the NDP, and in fact the Liberals, would actually consider those hard-working Canadians who have sent us here before they decide to go home.

We also heard the opposition talk about the loss of Canadian sovereignty. It seems to me that I have heard this before. That is what the NDP said when it opposed the auto pact. It opposed the auto pact because it worried about sovereignty. Free trade came around, and it did not want free trade, because it felt we would lose our sovereignty. The fact of the matter is that the auto pact created hundreds of thousands of jobs. Free trade has created millions of jobs and incredible economic growth in our country. We have not lost sovereignty. In fact, we have increased our sovereignty, because now we are one of those countries in the world where everyone wants to invest. We have created over 900,000 jobs, in part because we are open to trade, yet they want to turn their backs on that.

When I heard the member from Fort McMurray talk about his hard-working constituents, I could not help but feel somewhat embarrassed for the NDP and Liberals, because they had to go home early. However, let me tell all Canadians, who I know are watching intently, especially on this particular debate on this bill, that the Conservatives on both sides of the House will stay here, debate and talk about the issues that are important to them, no matter how long it takes to make sure that we continue this economic recovery we have seen.

Let us talk a bit about this further. I will read this to the House. It states:

...regulations that use this technique are effective in facilitating intergovernmental co-operation and harmonization, a key objective of the Regulatory Cooperation Council established by our Prime Minister and President Obama.

How exciting is that? This would eliminate red tape. I understand that on that side of the House red tape is something they revel in because it confuses people. It slows down the economy. It makes it harder for business.

On this side of the House we are all about eliminating red tape. We are about unleashing the potential of the economy, of small businesses, of those sectors that create jobs, economic growth and value for Canadians, all of which help put more money in the pockets of Canadians so they can invest in themselves and their families. That is what we are trying to do on this side of the House each and every day. Even if the NDP members are desperate to shut down debate, like they do every single night in this place, we will still work on that.

It goes even further to state:

Referencing material that is internationally accepted rather than attempting to reproduce the same rules in the regulations also reduces technical differences that create barriers to trade—

That part is so exciting. I will read it again because it references something I know the NDP know nothing about, which is trade.

Referencing material that is internationally accepted rather than attempting to reproduce the same rules in the regulations also reduces technical differences that create barriers to trade—

How exciting is that for the millions of Canadians at home watching this tonight thinking that finally they have a government that is prepared to make those types of changes so that we can make things better for them?

I will flip over a couple of pages because this is where it gets really exciting. It mentions that with this important regulatory tool come corresponding obligations. It then states:

[The bill] not only recognizes the need to provide a solid legal basis for the use of this regulatory drafting technique, but it also expressly imposes in legislation an obligation on all regulators to ensure that the documents they incorporate are accessible—

It is almost remarkable that we have waited so long to pass this. Honestly, we have been seized with a global economic crisis in this country. We have been seized with putting more money in the pockets of Canadians. We have been seized with opening up new markets for our manufacturers and getting new trade deals out there. We are working on a trade deal with the European Union. We have been seized with creating better relations with our American friends.

We all know what the Liberals did to our relations with the United States when they were stomping on dolls of the American presidents and insulting them all the time. We came to an historic low in those bilateral relations.

We have been bringing our budget back into balance while at the same time investing in Canadians and infrastructure across this country so that as we come out of the global economic downturn ahead of anybody else, we have the resources and the infrastructure in place so that our Canadian businesses, families and communities can succeed.

I am yelling a bit because I was not sure that the microphones are working. I heard the member from Hamilton and the member for Newton—North Delta screaming so much I thought the microphones were down, so I thought I would elevate my voice.

I am proud of the fact that this concerned Canadian called me and sent me an email as late as 10 o'clock asking me to come and talk to the bill. I responded that for her and for the millions of Canadians who are relying on us, I am prepared to work late and do whatever I have to do to make sure that this economy and this country remain great. I am only sorry that the opposition members do not feel that same sense of passion.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, after that vote we had, I was extremely excited because my colleagues across the room came to life for the first time this evening since seven o'clock. Suddenly they are ready to speak and actually participate in parliamentary debate. Let us have a big round of applause for my colleagues across the way.

Also, while we are praising ourselves, I want to remind my colleague across the way that for youth in this country, unemployment is at double digits. I am told this piece of legislation here, this technical bill, will open up all kinds of doors, but when we look at it, what is it? Its aim is to give more power to the executive branch so that regulations can be changed without parliamentary scrutiny. Is this the job creation policy of the government across the way? Is this it?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, earlier in debate, I talked about the NDP. It was formed in 1961. In 1962 we had an election in this country, and the New Democrats lost. In 1963 we had an election, and they lost. In 1965 we had an election, and they lost. In 1968 we had an election, and they lost. In 1972 we had an election; they lost. In 1974 we had an election; they lost. In 1979, they lost. In 1980, they lost. In 1984, they lost. In 1988 and 1993, they lost. In 2004 and 2000, they lost.

One would think that a party that has lost 16 straight elections would finally come to understand that maybe what its members are talking about does not resonate with Canadians. One would think that especially a member from British Columbia who has just seen her party go from 20 points ahead in the polls to losing an election would at some point think to herself that maybe what they are doing just is not working, that maybe Canadians have no confidence in them and that is why they have lost so many elections.

Our job creation is one of the best in the world. I will take our record of job creation any day over the NDP's plans for a $21-billion carbon tax that would devastate the economy.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to encourage the parliamentary secretary to reassure the scattered New Democrats across the way there that the sky is not falling. It is not falling because of this bill, as it did not fall because of the Auto Pact bill, as it did not fall because of the free trade bill, as it did not fall because of the softwood lumber bill, which everyone in the softwood lumber industry supported.

The sky did not fall, it is not going to fall, and it will never fall as long as the Conservatives are sitting on this side in government and the New Democrats maintain their consistent loss record.

Could the parliamentary secretary reinforce that?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what a solid question from a member who has been in this House for so long and who has been returned consistently by the people of his community seven times to represent them here in this place.

What is so exciting about winning seven times is that earlier today the Liberals were suggesting that when members like that have been re-elected seven times, somehow the people in those ridings did not know what they are talking about and we should somehow be ashamed of all of those hard-working Reform, Alliance and Progressive Conservative members who now form government. I am not.

The only way that the sky will ever fall is if that party ever made it to this side of the House. That is why we are going to ensure that never happens.

That said, we know that those members do not work past six o'clock anyway, and they want to go home. With that type of track record, there is no way they will make it from that side of the House to this side of the House. They should look over there and see what happens when they do not work for Canadians. They end up on that side of the House.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege for me to speak on this bill. I can assure you that I am equally excited about being able to stand in the House to talk to Canadians about the importance of the bill. I am proud to see this bill finally reach the floor of the House of Commons.

I, too, am disturbed by what I witnessed just an hour ago. New Democrats stood in the House, those who were here to vote, and told Canadians that it was time to go. My colleagues and I are here to work and get things done. That is why we were elected.

I take great inspiration from the people who work in my constituency, the people who sent me to Ottawa, who are working still tonight. I hear the NDP members groan. The member for Western Arctic said that he does not believe it.

Tonight I was on the phone with several farmers, who are tonight working around the clock to get their crops in. They are not making a motion to say that it is time to go home and shut the place down. This is not what Canadians do. Farmers do not do that. Loggers do not do that. Oil workers do not do that. People who work throughout my constituency do not do that. New Democrats are still laughing, because they want to shut these sectors down. New Democrats run to Washington and say not to defend Canadian jobs and not to defend young people who are trying to find employment in communities like mine. They say to shut down the industries that are creating the jobs, opportunity, hope and prosperity for all Canadians through the oil sands and the oil and gas sector, which is alive and well in my community.

The people in my constituency do not go home early. There are Canadians throughout this country who do not go home early. They stay at work and continue to get things done. They are—

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

The hon. member for Saint-Lambert on a point of order.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to interrupt my colleague's speech, which is completely irrelevant. We are discussing Bill S-12, and he has yet to mention it in his speech. I would ask that you call him to order.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

I will give the member for Peace River the recognition that he mentioned Bill S-12, but he has not spent more than about five seconds on that bill and a bunch of other things that have some indirect relevance. I will allow him to continue, but I would encourage him to begin to address at least some comments to the bill that is before the House for debate this evening.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to impugn motives on my colleagues, but anytime they hear about the oil and gas industry or farming or the forestry sector, they want to shut down debate on those issues.

That is why they tried to shut down the debate in this House earlier today. They want to go home. They do not want to talk about important things like jobs, opportunities, prosperity and hope in this country.

Incorporating by reference, the material in this bill would do exactly that. It would streamline things to ensure that there is efficiency, clarity and assurance for people who are involved in these sectors, in agriculture, the oil and gas sector and the forestry sector. These are companies, industries, small business people who depend on referencing regularly the legislation that is important to their industries.

There is a number of very important issues that are being brought forward in this bill that are entirely important with regard to these industries.

Mr. Speaker, you are an expert in this House, you have been in this place for some time and you know that this is a modern technique of incorporating by reference through regulation.

The Senate was criticized by my colleagues earlier, but I can assure the hon. members opposite that even the Senate did not shut down to go home early. It got its work done and sent us a bill, an important bill. The senators heard evidence at their committee hearings, and we will see if these members on the opposite side stick around long enough to hear witnesses on this side.

What we do hear from the witnesses the Senate heard is that it is important to move forward on this legislation. For the first time, Bill S-12 would impose a regulation requirement, a positive obligation on regulators to ensure that the reference is accessible to those people who are being regulated.

That answers the question that some of the members opposite were wondering about. They had not read the legislation, clearly. I want to assure the members opposite that there is a positive obligation on the regulators to ensure that the information is available to those who are being regulated. If it is not, then the person who is being regulated is not responsible. That is the first time in Canadian legislation that that has in fact happened.

There is a number of things that Bill S-12 would do. One of the things it would do is reduce unnecessary duplication and costs within the federal government and on some of our other levels of government, as well as, more importantly, on small business.

This is one of the things I heard about regularly as I served as a commissioner on the red tape reduction commission. We travelled from coast to coast. I hear the hon. members on the opposite side heckling again. Anytime they hear about the reduction of red tape, they are opposed to that. We know that. They have made that clear. That is why they have lost all the elections my colleague referenced earlier.

What we heard from small business owners, those people who create jobs, those who are the drivers of our economy in this nation, is “We need less duplication; we need more clarity; we need the regulations that we are required to follow to be user-friendly.” That is exactly what this bill would do.

My colleagues from the opposite side also referenced the scary notion that by incorporating our work with other jurisdictions, somehow that was going to be the end of the world.

I am a big federalist. I believe we have great provinces and territories from coast to coast. I am different from the leader of the Liberal Party, who comes to Alberta and basically says Albertans are some kind of nasty folks, and the Leader of the Opposition, who we hear continually criticizing the industries in my province.

I recognize that is not the view of my colleagues in the opposition parties. However, here on this side of the House, on the Conservative benches, we believe that every province and every territory is an important part of this country, and we trust them all. We believe we can incorporate by reference.

I was talking to John today. He is a hard-working Canadian. He is still working tonight. John Holtby was talking to me about the necessity to incorporate by reference beekeeping regulations.

He believes there needs to be more clarity when it comes to the freedom of individuals to have bee-keeping operations in communities across the country in a more homogenous way. This was something I heard directly from a constituent. He is a hard-working Canadian still working tonight and this is something he talked about.

While the opposition members are opposed to coordinating with our provinces, I am a strong federalist and I strongly trust provinces and territories across the country. I do not think they are somehow going to do something nasty to the federal government. Therefore, it is important we work together in a collaborative fashion to ensure we streamline things, provide more clarity to business owners, reduce duplication and ensure that when people are being regulated that, first and foremost, they can find those regulations, which is established in this bill, and that they be clear. That is what is established in this bill. It is something that is great news to all Canadians, specifically small business owners and people who work in other levels of government across our great nation.