The House resumed from February 28 consideration of the motion that Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal
This bill has received Royal Assent and is, or will soon become, law.
This is from the published bill. The Library of Parliament has also written a full legislative summary of the bill.
This enactment amends the Broadcasting Act to, among other things,
(a) add online undertakings — undertakings for the transmission or retransmission of programs over the Internet — as a distinct class of broadcasting undertakings;
(b) specify that the Act does not apply in respect of programs uploaded to an online undertaking that provides a social media service by a user of the service, unless the programs are prescribed by regulation;
(c) update the broadcasting policy for Canada set out in section 3 of the Act by, among other things, providing that the Canadian broadcasting system should
(i) serve the needs and interests of all Canadians, including Canadians from Black or other racialized communities and Canadians of diverse ethnocultural backgrounds, socio-economic statuses, abilities and disabilities, sexual orientations, gender identities and expressions, and ages, and
(ii) provide opportunities to Indigenous persons, programming that reflects Indigenous cultures and that is in Indigenous languages, and programming that is accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities;
(d) enhance the vitality of official language minority communities in Canada and foster the full recognition and use of both English and French in Canadian society, including by supporting the production and broadcasting of original programs in both languages;
(e) specify that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) must regulate and supervise the Canadian broadcasting system in a manner that
(i) takes into account the different characteristics of English, French and Indigenous language broadcasting and the different conditions under which broadcasting undertakings that provide English, French or Indigenous language programming operate,
(ii) takes into account, among other things, the nature and diversity of the services provided by broadcasting undertakings,
(iii) ensures that any broadcasting undertaking that cannot make maximum or predominant use of Canadian creative and other human resources in the creation, production and presentation of programming contributes to those Canadian resources in an equitable manner,
(iv) promotes innovation and is readily adaptable toscientific and technological change,
(v) facilitates the provision to Canadians of Canadian programs in both official languages, including those created and produced by official language minority communities in Canada, as well as Canadian programs in Indigenous languages,
(vi) facilitates the provision of programs that are accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities,
(vii) facilitates the provision to Canadians of programs created and produced by members of Black or other racialized communities,
(viii) protects the privacy of individuals who aremembers of the audience of programs broadcast, and
(ix) takes into account the variety of broadcasting undertakings to which the Act applies and avoids imposing obligations on any class of broadcasting undertakings if that imposition will not contribute in a material manner to the implementation of the broadcasting policy;
(f) amend the procedure relating to the issuance by the Governor in Council of policy directions to the Commission;
(g) replace the Commission’s power to impose conditions on a licence with a power to make orders imposing conditions on the carrying on of broadcasting undertakings;
(h) provide the Commission with the power to require that persons carrying on broadcasting undertakings make expenditures to support the Canadian broadcasting system;
(i) authorize the Commission to provide information to the Minister responsible for that Act, the Chief Statistician of Canada and the Commissioner of Competition, and set out in that Act a process by which a person who submits certain types of information to the Commission may designate the information as confidential;
(j) amend the procedure by which the Governor in Council may, under section 28 of that Act, set aside a decision of the Commission to issue, amend or renew a licence or refer such a decision back to the Commission for reconsideration and hearing;
(k) specify that a person shall not carry on a broadcasting undertaking, other than an online undertaking, unless they do so in accordance with a licence or they are exempt from the requirement to hold a licence;
(l) harmonize the punishments for offences under Part II of that Act and clarify that a due diligence defence applies to the existing offences set out in that Act; and
(m) allow for the imposition of administrative monetary penalties for violations of certain provisions of that Act or of the Accessible Canada Act .
The enactment also makes related and consequential amendments to other Acts.
All sorts of information on this bill is available at LEGISinfo, an excellent resource from the Library of Parliament. You can also read the full text of the bill.
The House resumed from February 28 consideration of the motion that Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.
Citizenship and ImmigrationCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
Winnipeg North Manitoba
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Madam Speaker, I would like to say that it is a pleasure to rise to address this issue, and to a certain extent it is, but I am somewhat disappointed with the Conservative Party because I believe it is using this issue as a way to frustrate the legislative process, and I do not say that lightly.
All members of the House have been very supportive of the people of Ukraine. They understand the situation and want to do what Canadians as a whole want us to do, and that is to support the Ukrainian people in this time of need. We have seen that in the form of take-note debates. I believe we have had two take-note debates, although maybe one was an emergency debate. I am not 100% clear on that. Members from all sides of the House recognized what is taking place in Ukraine.
It does not take very much to get an appreciation of what is happening. We can go to YouTube or check news channels and see the horrors of war taking place today in Ukraine. Cities are being completely demolished, and people are dying every day by the thousands. In Putin, we see a dictator who has seen fit to destroy the infrastructure of a country, but the people of Ukraine are resisting. That resistance and love for Ukrainian heritage are what are ultimately going to prevail. We know that and we see that.
It was inspiring when President Zelenskyy addressed this chamber virtually and spoke to Canadians through the House of Commons. I believe, as I know my colleagues believe, that the Government of Canada needs to do whatever it can to support Ukraine and the people of Ukraine, and not use the political manoeuvres that I believe we are witnessing today to fit another agenda that is, really and truly, meant to frustrate the government.
If the Conservative Party really wants to have a debate about what is happening in Ukraine today and wants to talk about visitor visas or visa requirements, there are other opportunities. The Conservatives could have approached the government about having another take-note debate. They could have had their own opposition day and a very specific motion to deal with the topic they want to talk about today. They could have done that. There are other ways that the official opposition could have raised this very important issue. There is not one member of the Liberal caucus who would deny the fact that the issue being debated is, indeed, of critical importance. It is the timing of it.
Yesterday, for example, we were looking forward to Bill C-8 passing, but Conservative after Conservative stood and spoke. Bill C-8 is the fall economic statement that would provide pandemic relief and support for Canadians in all regions, but the Conservatives have made the determination that they do not want to see that bill pass.
Today we all know we are supposed to be debating Bill C-11: the modernization of the Broadcasting Act.
A great deal of effort has gone into that bill through input from Canadians, the work of the ministry and its department, and the work of the minister himself. It has been debated quite extensively thus far, and it was supposed to continue to be debated.
Again, we see the Conservatives bringing forward a concurrence motion. To the best of my knowledge, they did not approach the government House leader and ask for a take-note debate. To the best of my knowledge, we did not get to the rest of the orders of the day. Conservatives could have brought in an emergency debate on the issue. If they had waited an extra two minutes during House proceedings, we could have had an emergency debate.
I am sure members in the Conservative Party know that the type of debate they are encouraging right now is, in fact, limited to three hours. An emergency debate would have allowed more people to participate. A take-note debate would have allowed more people to participate. An opposition day motion would have not only allowed more people to participate, but it would have allowed the Conservative Party to frame a question to ultimately be put to the House and see whether that could have been supported.
That is the reason I say to the Conservative Party, and those who might be following this debate, that it is shameful of the official opposition to try to take an issue that is important to all Canadians and politicize it. I say shame on the Conservative Party of Canada for doing what it is doing: using manipulation to try to twist something so it can score some political points, or limit or cause more frustration on another piece of legislation.
For Conservatives to try to give the impression that Liberals do not want to contribute to the issue of refugees in Ukraine is absolutely ridiculous. As a government, we want to do whatever we can to support the people of Ukraine. Almost 3.9 million people have fled Ukraine to date. That is the most recent estimate I have heard. Almost four million people have fled Ukraine.
I talked at the beginning about those horrors. Let us take a look at the track record of this government. I will compare it with the record of Stephen Harper. In 2015, we had the election along with what was taking place in Syria. We had about 25,000 refugees to settle, and the Conservative Party was balking back then and asking how we were going to do that.
The Conservatives seemed to be in opposition to it, because I think their number was around 10,000. Do not quote me on it, but it was substantially less than what we said. Not only did we achieve 25,000, but from what I understand, we actually exceeded 50,000. That does not happen overnight. There is a process. To my friends across the way, I ask them to tell me another country, on a per capita basis in the western world, that had more refugees from Syria than Canada did.
Then we have Afghanistan, where the former foreign affairs minister said we would resettle 20,000 refugees, but then that doubled to 40,000. The Conservatives are already critical of some of the processes regarding processing those refugees. We will eventually get there. We understand the important role that Canada has to play when it comes to refugees.
When I was the critic for the Liberal Party of Canada dealing with immigration matters, we had Stephen Harper and the Conservative minister of immigration cutting back refugee settlement programs.
We do not need to take lessons from the Conservative Party on providing humanitarian support to refugees. I saw it first-hand when I was sitting in opposition and the Conservative Party had no respect for refugees or had minimal respect for providing the supports they required in order to settle in a healthier way here in Canada. Now the Conservative Party members have the tenacity to say that we could be doing better from a government perspective.
Mark Holland LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, I wish a very happy birthday to Mitch. I hope he has the time to celebrate with his family over the weekend.
Tomorrow we will call Bill C-8, the economic and fiscal update, for the third day of debate at report stage, and we will continue on Monday, if that is necessary. Tuesday we will resume debate at second reading of Bill C-11, the online streaming act. Wednesday we will continue with debate on Bill C-5, which is mandatory minimum legislation, at second reading.
I would also inform the House that Thursday, March 31, will be an allotted day and next Friday, a week tomorrow, it is our intention to begin consideration of the second reading of Bill C-13, the official languages bill.
Right now, this piece of legislation will have a dramatic effect on almost every creator who earns a living online, so yes, we are absolutely laser-focused on Bill C-11. It is a problem.
By the way, I also have a day job. This is something that I'm doing for passion, and something I believe in, which is why I'm doing it. I don't have lawyers. We don't have lobby groups or associations or paying members. We're just trying to speak up for a bunch of entrepreneurs who have earned their money online and don't want to be regulated by the government.
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
—and it's incredible work for only three months in having done that, but again, where is all this advocacy that you're talking about? I can't find online any the work you're doing, the criticisms you have about the inequity that exists.
Even in speaking with Mr. Michael and Ms. Roy, there were significant differences in the compensation models they were experiencing, and you seem silent. Again, it just seems to be an anti-Bill C-11 platform that you're coming here on.
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
From some your comments, I guess I'm concerned that your organization is more of an anti-Bill C-10, anti-Bill C-11, organization than a pro-creator artist organization.
My concern is that these platforms have incredible unchecked power over creators. These are some of the largest companies in the world, and in looking at your website and your Twitter account, both for you personally and for your organization, they are absent anything except for C-10.
My question is whether everything is hunky-dory with these major corporations and no changes are required, because that's what's coming through loud and clear from your silence on social media and on the Internet.
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Mr. Benzie, thank you for your answer to that. I want to give you an opportunity to expand on that a bit more.
We have heard from the heritage minister that in no uncertain terms does Bill C-11 include user-generated content, that Bill C-11 has fixed that mistake that was in Bill C-10. I guess I'm just wondering what your response to that would be.
Thank you, Mrs. Thomas.
To address the first point, about creators coming to committee, I'd like to thank the committee, actually, for having us involved, finally, in these discussions. Digital first creators don't have lobby groups. We don't have associations.
That's why, Mr. Julian, negotiating with the platforms is just impractical for us. We don't have teams of lawyers and lobby groups who can put all that together.
You know, for those creators to step forward and tell their stories I think is really important, and I think it's important for everybody to hear them. Things are changing in our cultural world. I'm hopeful that they'll come back. I'm hopeful that, going forward, we're treated with the same respect as my other colleagues here on the call. That's all I'll really say about that.
With regard to throwing around terms like “misinformation”, the fact of the matter is that Darcy was absolutely correct. This bill will have a dramatic impact on digital first creators. An argument can be made that user-generated content is absolutely still in this bill. That exemption, clause 4.2(2)(a), is far too vague. It's far too broad. There are no guidelines. It basically includes the entire Internet. I'm hoping that when you guys start to debate Bill C-11, we're welcomed back to this table to have that discussion.
I'll add one last point. I've heard terms like “parroting misinformation” myself in conversations with heritage members and with other MPs—that we just don't understand the bill, or we're not smart enough to understand the bill, or we don't get it, or we're just parroting misinformation. It's condescending and it's not true. Hopefully, you'll listen to us when we're having these conversations going forward.
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you.
Mr. Benzie, I will direct my questions to you. I want to thank you for being here. I believe it's important for us to hear about digital first creators, because it's something [Technical difficulty—Editor] definitely not given enough space or time to within Parliament. Certainly, these are individuals who are helping to shape the culture of our country.
You outlined in your remarks that of course digital creators are punching above their weight. I think they deserve a great deal of celebration in that regard. At the last committee, we were able to hear from Darcy Michael and Oorbee Roy. They both came forward and shared their success stories, which was very inspiring for us.
During his time, Darcy Michael expressed some concerns with regard to Bill C-11, the streaming act, and if it should pass, the fact that it would have quite detrimental consequences for him. Of course, the same would be true for Ms. Roy and many other digital first creators as well.
Mr. Bittle at that time berated Mr. Michael here at committee. However, he wasn't satisfied, I guess, so he took it to Twitter. On Twitter he accused Darcy of parroting “misinformation” about Bill C-11.
I guess what I'm wondering from you, Mr. Benzie, is this. You're someone who has reviewed Bill C-11 in depth. You're someone who I believe is an authoritative voice—it's quite evident—with regard to digital first creators in Canada. Can you provide some further insight? Will Bill C-11 impact digital first creators or will it not?
I will go back briefly to what I said earlier. It's better to go to arbitration than to have no agreement at all. Our organization is currently in that situation. We have been negotiating with a producer association for more than 20 years, without a collective agreement. Obviously, in such a situation, it's preferable to go to an arbitrator, who will determine the working conditions.
My point was that it's a fairly cumbersome process. However, it's better to have this process in place than to end up with working conditions that are impossible to renew, because the parties remain in their position for years. In general, it's easy for a producer association to stick to its position and not enter into a collective agreement. That doesn't improve the lot of artists and their working conditions.
On the issue of broadcasters and online platforms, right now it's impossible to negotiate with online platforms under the current regime. However, if Bill C‑11 is adopted, it may give us the opportunity to at least engage in some kind of discussion with online platforms on compensation conditions, which are related not only to the use of the works, but also to the performances. This will also allow artists to be remunerated for the use of all the content that ends up on an online platform.
As I understand it, Bill C‑11 will bring online platforms under the authority of the CRTC. This could help the Status of the Artist Act so that online platform operators would become interlocutors. Currently, we cannot send a notice to bargain or ask an online platform operator to come and negotiate with an artists' association. It is currently impossible. We can't establish a legal link.
As you were saying, online platforms have significantly changed the way music and audiovisual works are consumed. In sound recordings, the sale of physical albums has fallen dramatically. A lot of the revenue that was generated by the music industry is now in the pockets of online platform operators outside the country. Just to give you an idea, for every sale of a record costing $25, the producer received $10—
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Mr. Lefebvre, you mentioned broadcasters. This gives me an opportunity to follow up on one of the comments you made in 2018 about the presence of online broadcasters.
What has been the impact of online broadcasters or streaming companies on your profession or specialty?
How will the passage of Bill C‑11 address these shortcomings?
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Ms. Roy, do you feel that the government has listened to digital-first creators in its drafting of Bill C-11?
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Michael, I'll come back to you because our time got cut short. I'm fascinated by your story. I'm inspired by your story because what I hear on this in this committee meeting is the juxtaposition between a victim mentality and the mentality of a victor. You chose to overcome obstacles. You chose to overcome the challenges of the pandemic. You chose to not allow the three gatekeepers, as you called them, to hold you back. Rather, you took an opportunity that was in front of you and you seized the day.
Now here's my question for you: Do you need the government to help you by putting in place Bill C-11?
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
If I tell you that Bill C-11 does not regulate the uploading of videos and does not allow the CRTC to engage in that practice, does that alleviate your concerns?