Afghanistan Committee on May 2nd, 2022

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I can assure you that I am still doing my job, as you say.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So a legal opinion has been produced.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

My objective here is to ensure that Canada's interests are protected and that we can improve the situation on the ground. I think and I hope that we can work together because it is indeed difficult to provide humanitarian aid in Afghanistan right now.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You don't even have to wait for the committee's recommendations. We could do it right now, if you want to save time. Make your choice.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

My aim is not to save time. My aim is to depoliticize the issue so that there can be broad unanimity on it. If we can work together, if you can talk to the Conservatives, if you can work with the NDP, we will find a good solution.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

If you wanted unanimity, you could have just voted for the unanimous consent motion that I put forward. The Liberals were the only ones who did not vote for it.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I look forward to continuing this conversation with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, thank you very much. Your time is up.

We will go to the last honourable member for two and a half minutes.

Madam Kwan, please go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to just follow up on the last question.

Could the minister advise what action she will take to ensure that GAC will refer people who have applied to Canada but still not heard from IRCC...that they will receive an invitation and in fact receive the information before the quota, the number of the allocations, runs out?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We will make sure to follow up with IRCC. GAC has definitely been the bridge between the people who have applied at the beginning...and then they're processed through IRCC. We know that a lot can be done and must be done, and that's what we'll do.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm very concerned. With each passing day, people's lives are at risk, because they're in hiding.

I know that some applications were submitted eight months ago. They have been GAC approved, in terms of the referral, and are sitting on IRCC's desk somewhere collecting dust. I hope the minister will motivate IRCC to get the job done. Otherwise, it makes you look bad, which is not I think what they want to do.

On a different question, with respect to Pakistan—because part of the issue is Pakistan not moving forward with the recognition of documentation—could the minister advise what work she has been engaged in with Pakistan to ensure that the accepted documentation, such as single-journey travel documents from Canada...so people can exit Afghanistan?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Well, I think you've heard it from my colleague, Sean Fraser, who wants to make sure that biometrics are made. This is clearly an issue, because we obviously want to make sure that Canada's security is protected.

To go back to your former question, because I didn't fully answer, you asked me whether we received offers of biometric services from allied countries. I want to let you that's not the case.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That's interesting.

With respect to allied countries, and for Pakistan to recognize our documentation, will the minister ask allied countries if they will collect biometrics on behalf of Canada, or operate on the ground, seeing as they have boots on the ground to do mobile offices?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

That's exactly what I was trying to do with the EU and Germany. We thought that was something that could be done. At the same time, we're still in conversations. I hope this will continue to move in the right direction. I must say that the security situation is such that it is difficult for us, and it is difficult for the EU and Germany. I won't talk for them and put words in their mouths, but this is a collective problem. It's not only a Canadian issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Madam Kwan. Your time is up.

Now, on behalf of the committee members I want to thank the honourable minister for her appearance. Ms. Joly, thank you. The very best to you.

Now we will suspend for a few minutes to allow the minister to intermingle with the members and leave. We'll continue with the officials shortly. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We are now going to proceed with the round of questions.

I would request, honourable members, if you are asking a question to a particular person, please name them so that the honourable official can respond accordingly.

We will start with Mr. Garnett Genuis for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the officials for being here. It's an honour for me to be subbing at this committee.

I serve as the point person for international development for our caucus. I want to focus my questions on that issue, picking up on some of what's been already discussed.

I really appreciate the challenges here. We have a very dire humanitarian situation. We want to do all we can to make sure resources don't end up in the hands of the Taliban. At the same time, I think, Canadian organizations, Canadians individually, and all of us here feel the imperative to see what we can do and if we can do more to help people who are in a really challenging situation.

I think one of the problems is that we have legal constraints that apply to Canadian organizations that may not apply to international organizations that we are funding. It seems to me that in these kinds of situations, Canadian organizations have constraints that relate to the possibility that any of their resources will end up in the hands of hostile actors. Large, multilateral organizations that taxpayers are also funding are not subject to the same constraints.

I'd just like to hear a bit more from officials about what they think can be done specifically to remove the impediments that we're hearing about from stakeholders that make it harder for them to confront this really dire humanitarian situation. I'm sure you're hearing about it as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, please, officials—whoever wants to take it.

[Cindy Termorshuizen, Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I'm happy to start.

It's a really important question. I think like all of the members of this committee, we're really seized by the seriousness of the humanitarian situation on the ground, and it is growing worse. I'm glad you asked the question.

Our preoccupation is getting aid and support, particularly humanitarian assistance, to Afghanistan in a way that complies with the Criminal Code. I know that all of the members are very familiar with that issue.

I should also mention that four multilateral organizations that are operating in Afghanistan and using funds that we supply also work very hard to ensure that funding does not go to the Taliban, through taxation, for instance, that Canada has provided.

Maybe I'll turn the floor to Peter MacDougall, who is our assistant deputy minister responsible for this area to follow up further.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I would like to hear from him in a moment.

Can I just clarify this? I think it's important that people hear what you said. Although UN organizations may, we hope, do their best to not see money end up in the hands of the Taliban, at the end of the day those Criminal Code provisions that do apply to Canadian organizations do not apply to them. Is that correct?

[Cindy Termorshuizen]

What we do as the Government of Canada is work with those organizations to design our contributions so that Canadian funding does not go, for instance, to taxation to the Taliban. We are stringent upon ourselves, because the Criminal Code does apply to Canadian officials who write those agreements. It's incumbent upon us, even working with multilateral organizations, to ensure that we are compliant with the Criminal Code.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Right, so it applies to you and it influences the way you engage, but it does not apply to them insofar as if we're providing funding for core funding and things and they're using it at their discretion or—

[Cindy Termorshuizen]

That's right. It applies to Government of Canada officials.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

All right. Thank you.

I'd love to hear from the other gentlemen on this as well.

[Cindy Termorshuizen]

Peter, it's over to you.