Evidence of meeting #16 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was documents.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Would Admiral Davidson in NATO have been talking to senior NATO staff on a regular basis about Afghanistan?
4:40 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
Hourly.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Would you have verified all information that you received from these various sources? To the best of your....
4:40 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
Yes, obviously. I balanced everything I got from one source or multiple sources against the other information I was getting, to try to find clear ground truth, as we call it.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Did you at any time receive any specific information on the abuse of Canadian transferred detainees?
4:40 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
No, not until spring of 2007. Then we actually made a decision to put a temporary pause on turning anybody over. It happened to coincide with a lull in operations, so we actually didn't have anybody to turn over, as I recall. So it was about that timeframe.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
On any serious issue such as detainee transfers and so on, would you ever depend solely on one source of information or would you balance all the information you got?
4:40 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
In everything, I balanced all the information I got.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
The Dutch and the Brits apparently had a better transfer arrangement than we did, initially. Did you ever hear any concerns from them—
4:40 p.m.
Gen Rick Hillier
None.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
General Gauthier, would you agree with all those answers or would you have answered in the same way?
4:40 p.m.
An hon. member
Do you remember the questions?
4:40 p.m.
LGen Michel Gauthier
I would say, as I said in my opening statement, what I heard from the troops: no indications of torture. And it was certainly the same thing in my meetings with various others. I regularly went to Kabul and elsewhere.
The only other point I'd raise here is that over the course of the three and a half years that I was involved in this—and I alluded to this in my opening remarks—from commander to commander to commander, from General Fraser to General Grant to General Laroche, from General Thompson to General Vance to now General Menon, we understand a lot more today than we understood three years ago.
As a result of the 2005 policy—early implementation days—our detainee policy was probably less robust in certain respects with respect to monitoring than that of our international partners. I think ours is the most robust now. So we've learned.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
General Fraser, I have a few questions again. Yes or no, if you can.
You were responsible for the transfer of detainees to the Afghan government and presumably reliant on Government of Canada civilian advisers to some degree for input. Is that correct?
4:40 p.m.
MGen David Fraser
That is correct, and that included reading a report from the Correctional Service of Canada about the Sarposa Prison. They saw the prison in about the May-June period, and there was nothing in that prison report at all about torture or abuse.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Did you have contact with the Canadian ambassador during your nine months in Kandahar?
4:45 p.m.
MGen David Fraser
Yes, I did.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Did the ambassador ever raise with you, in written or verbal form, any concerns about torture or abuse of detainees handed over to Afghan authorities?
4:45 p.m.
MGen David Fraser
No.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Did you have contact with civilian officials working in the PRT?
4:45 p.m.
MGen David Fraser
Yes, I did.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Did any of them ever raise—by any, I mean including Mr. Colvin—concerns or warn you about torture in Afghan prisons?
4:45 p.m.
MGen David Fraser
No. Nobody raised a report to me.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Did you work closely with the military commander of the PRT in Kandahar city?
4:45 p.m.
MGen David Fraser
Yes. We had regular contact, and he never reported anything to me.