Afghanistan Committee on Nov. 25th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, sir.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Would it be possible for General Gauthier to provide the documents he was referring to? I think he would like that. Could he offer that to the committee?

[LGen Michel Gauthier]

I couldn't personally, but you can get them from the government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Get what you can, if you will.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We're at kind of a crossroads here. We always run out of time at this committee. We have some future business to attend to. We indicated that we'd go to 5 p.m. It will take 40 minutes to get through the next round, and if we start, we're not going to get all the way through it.

What does the committee wish to do?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, we have important issues to discuss that really impact on what's going to happen with the committee down the road. We've all had one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

To be fair, I indicated to Mr. Wilfert earlier that we might have a few minutes. I was quite lenient on the time in the first round because of the responses we were getting and because of the questions being posed.

I believe it would be best for the committee to go in camera.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I have a point of order on that, Mr. Chair. I would support, and I believe the NDP would support, doing the motions in public.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We usually deal with committee business in camera. Is there any objection to staying in public? We will stay in public, but we will suspend for one minute while we excuse our witnesses.

Thanks, gentlemen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Let's get the committee back to order. We have a couple of things to deal with here.

First I'd like to deal with a report from the steering committee that we didn't get to last week. It's been kind of carrying on. It's the fifth report of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure for this committee. Would somebody move that?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you very much.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We have had notice of motion for four different motions. The clerk has compiled them and handed them out in the order in which they came in, from what I understand. She has the dates and times and everything, so we're squared away with that.

The first motion is from Mr. Dewar. Sir, I'll give you a few minutes to speak to your motion.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

The motion, I think, is fairly straightforward: “That the Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan request the following documents prior to the appearance of Mr. David Mulroney”, and then they're listed: “all documents referred to in the affidavit by Mr. Colvin; all documents with the Department of Foreign Affairs written in response to the documents referred to in the affidavit by Mr. Colvin and...”.

Dispense? I will.

Mr. Chair, the documents that I have listed here--and in particular the last one--are at the dispense of the government. We've heard not only from Mr. Colvin about his desire to have those documents shared with the committee—and I asked him for those—but we also actually heard from General Gauthier and his desire to have the committee have these documents.

I think it's an entirely reasonable request. I don't think it's arduous. I know that we have a very sophisticated system of information dispensation in this city. I believe this could be done within a matter of hours, and it would allow us to do two things, Chair, and then I'll finish. It would allow us to have the information to have an informed discussion at committee in the area of detainee transfer, and it would also allow those of us who want to hear from Mr. Mulroney--of whom I am one--to be able to hear from Mr. Mulroney with information that he has access to. So it would essentially make it a more well-informed committee meeting.

So I ask this committee to request the following documents prior to the appearance of Mr. Mulroney.

I'll stop there, and thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Okay, are there any other comments?

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The government members will support a request for any legally available documents.

I think Mr. Dewar is grossly underestimating the amount of time it would take to assemble the documents, and I'm really referring to all three similar motions across the floor. But we cannot support a motion that is impossible to fulfill within any reasonable time limits, especially if it's a precondition to hearing witnesses who have important testimony. As well, this committee, we believe, is not taking enough cognizance of security concerns on redactions and cabinet confidences. They are not the final arbiter on national security, and we will not violate laws passed by this House on national security.

This motion, we believe, is clearly aimed at preventing David Mulroney and others from testifying. We've already heard from eight witnesses, without documents. We're planning to hear currently from about another seven. There is no need for documents to hear Mr. Mulroney. We believe they are clearly not comfortable with what he's probably going to say, and frankly, we can call him back later if we need to. He is not on another planet.

I do find it a bit surprising the Bloc Québécois is ready to give up their rights to documents in French quite so easily. This government has a responsibility under the Official Languages Act and the Standing Orders of this House to produce bilingual documents. I think it's incumbent upon this committee to respect those long-standing traditions and laws.

For all those reasons, government members will abstain from votes on the motion. While we support requesting legally available documents, we cannot agree with impossible timelines, national security violations, and clear attempts to muzzle testimony. So for that reason, Mr. Chair, we will not be voting against it, but we will be abstaining from those motions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Are there any other comments on this before I call the question?

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I have a--

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

No. Call the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

All those in favour of Mr. Dewar's motion, please signify in the usual manner.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, have all the subs been signed in?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Yes, they have. The six who just raised their hands have.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Okay.

(Motion agreed to)

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Can I just clarify, Mr. Chair, that it is incumbent upon you to write to the government to request...? Is that your understanding of this motion as passed?