Evidence of meeting #5 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
Yes.
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
Yes.
5 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
I wonder if you could just give us an opinion about the interests of Canada. You know what we're talking about here. We're concerned about what the circumstances would be if we had a situation in which Canada, which has its own obligations under international law, were taking prisoners in a combat situation and passing them over where there was a real risk of torture. This is obviously problematic in human rights law, but let's talk about the interests of Canada. What are the interests of Canada in avoiding that kind of circumstance?
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
You mean in avoiding passing them over? I'm probably speaking out of school here, but—
5 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Give us your opinion as a long-term diplomat. What are the problems for the interests of Canada, as a nation, in passing over people where there is a real risk of torture?
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
We had a very strong human rights image in the world in much of my career. I believe the Canadian public was very proud of that. I think it could have been tarnished if we knew we were passing people to a detention facility where there was torture.
5 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you. I know we've been jumping all over the map in timelines here, but can we establish first of all that when you were there first, the Canadian involvement was through the small group in Kabul? It was the administration group. Is that correct?
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
It was the embassy.
5 p.m.
NDP
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
The Canadian Forces were part of ISAF. They came in August. They had the theatre activation team in March or April of 2003. I was very involved with that, being the only Canadian there. The troops started filtering in from June 2003 and August. I believe that's when we took over command of the multinational brigade.
5 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
It was only after that time that we started engaging in taking prisoners, then? You don't know.
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
Honestly, I don't know.
5 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
All right. Let's move to the period of time when we know that the first agreement, the transfer agreement, was signed, which was in December 2005. You were gone by then, but we were told there were negotiations and discussions going on for some time prior to that. That would have been happening before you left, obviously, because you saw the drafts.
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
I saw the draft in Ottawa.
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
No, I saw it in Ottawa, in maybe November or something like that of that year.
5 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Okay. You said you were in the room, but you weren't the person responsible for approving these documents or negotiations. You mentioned certain people, but could you tell us the titles of these people? Who was doing the work in Ottawa?
5 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
They weren't negotiating then. As I remember, the document came from the Department of National Defence for comment. The obvious people who would comment in a substantive way would be the human rights division and the legal affairs division, the legal bureau. It was sent to the area I worked in called START--the stabilization and reconstruction task force--which was just kind of getting up and running at that point.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
So the legal affairs division and the human rights division all looked at this. Did they approve...? Did you say you saw a draft at one time?
5:05 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
I saw the draft, and I said, “I don't think we should be handing these people over to NDS”. I thought we should keep as much information on them, to identify them, as possible.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
So you specifically identified NDS even early in the day as a problematic group?
5:05 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
Yes.
5:05 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
Well, the reputation they had.