Evidence of meeting #43 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Analyst, Agri-food, Option consommateurs
I'm sorry. Could you say that again?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
They have a code amongst themselves that they have to meet to prove organics are grown on organic land.
4:35 p.m.
Analyst, Agri-food, Option consommateurs
For organics, there is a regulation.
It applies to cross-border products. For example, the “Biologique Canada Organic“ label is mandatory for products that are going to be shipped from Saskatchewan to Alberta. But the situation is quite different for products that are going to stay in Alberta.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Option consommateurs
The important thing to understand, I feel, is that, if a company wants to label its products, it has to comply with the voluntary code. But the fact is that it is not required to label them. That is where the difference lies, in our opinion.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I guess my comment back to you on that is that the role of government is to ensure the product produced is safe by all reasonable means, which in this case we have. It is not our responsibility to market. We have an issue right now going on in the U.S. with country-of-origin labeling, where we have a classic example with beef that we know is safe. They know it's safe, but they're trying to create a regulation through COOL that prevents Canadian beef from coming in.
So that's the problem with trying to get involved in marketing products as a government instead of just regulating the safety of the product.
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Option consommateurs
It is true that the government must ensure the safety of its citizens, but it also has to respect one of the major rights of consumers, the right to have the information necessary to make informed choices.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you, Mr. Hoback.
We'll now move to Mr. Easter for five minutes.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank you folks for coming.
We did have a little debate previously, and I just want you to know, when you listen to the sympathetic word on the other side there, that some of your time was taken. We had a committee meeting in which witnesses waited for over an hour or an hour and a half. We had to extend the meeting because there was a filibuster on the government side. It's not the first time it's happened, but they're trying to make it seem that way.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Anyway, folks, that was just to set the record straight.
This is an extremely serious issue in terms of trust. I'm from Prince Edward Island. We are selling an increasing number of products to Japan, and one of the great difficulties in that marketplace is that they want absolute assurance that it's GMO-free, for their public's reasons, whatever they may be. I think our people who are in the industry that ship GMO-free products to Japan are certainly very concerned when another GMO product of a completely different crop comes in and starts to be produced, because of the impact it could have on that market.
I think the key—I believe it was Mr. Arnold who said it—to the future here is all about trust. This relates to transparency a great deal. What has to be done to make the system more transparent so that trust can develop? That trust isn't there right now.
Part of it is related to big companies. I actually led the fight against rBGH in terms of Monsanto's injection of the product into dairy cows to produce more milk. The only one that was going to gain from that was Monsanto, certainly not the cow and certainly not the Canadian dairy industry. I think there are good GMOs and bad GMOs. Some work in some countries; some don't in others.
What do we have to do to achieve that trust, which relates to transparency?
4:40 p.m.
Analyst, Agri-food, Option consommateurs
First, as Mr. Ellis mentioned, it could publish some industry documents. We are guessing that the documents contain secret material. But the research we did in 2004 showed that they were going much too far. Access to any information about the industry is systematically denied. We ask if the industry really wants to issue the information. We could find a happy medium that would keep trade secrets confidential. But there is still plenty of other information that could be published.
Actually, environmental and consumer organizations are asking for a lot of epidemiological reports and want access to this industry data. We are not asking for access to secrets. We just want to be able to see what kind of scientific research has been done so that we can go to research professionals and ask them whether the science is good or bad. Then things would be getting more transparent.
How can we tie other things into the approval process? There is a huge mistrust of the industry and of the government's approval process. I do not think that it is the officials' fault. But there has to be some public thought on the matter, and we are not seeing that at the moment.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
4:45 p.m.
Department of Food Science, University of Guelph
Mr. Easter, I think the issue around trust or mistrust is really an issue of understanding and for us to do a better job as scientists to educate the public and the consumer about what we do as scientists, so that they have a better idea of the kinds of studies that are being undertaken. We need to do a better job of explaining those results.
As my colleague was saying about trust or mistrust, I really think it is an issue of understanding and science literacy. I think all countries need to do a better job of increasing science literacy.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to follow up a little bit.
In terms of the GMOs, I've reaped the benefits of GMOs on my farm. I think all of us would recognize some of the concerns. I think Mr. Valeriote raised some very solid questions regarding where we would be without GMOs.
Can anyone tell me where we are in terms of the number of GMOs in Canada?
4:45 p.m.
Professor, Michael Smith Laboratories, University of British Columbia
Do you mean the number of approvals or the number of crops?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
Well, let's go with GMO crops. What's the number we would be growing in Canada that are actually genetically modified?
4:45 p.m.
Professor, Michael Smith Laboratories, University of British Columbia
I'm sorry to be difficult, but is that at the level of a variety or at the level of a crop? There are many different canola varieties out there that are GMO.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
I think that helps. Actually, we have canola and there are a number of varieties within it. We have corn and there are a number of varieties within corn. We have in fact soy beans.
4:45 p.m.
Professor, Michael Smith Laboratories, University of British Columbia
Yes, maize.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
I guess what I'm talking about--I think the point has been raised and has been answered--is the fact that a number of GMOs are actually playing a significant role in agriculture right now. We're just going through a study on competition, and I can tell you that without the help of genetically modified organisms, agriculture would be in a much more difficult situation.
I think we always have to be science-based, so I appreciate your comments. I support GMOs in most cases, but I think we always have to have that alert bell in terms of knowing what we're going to do when the approval process comes along.
You talked about a number of them in terms of the benefits. I want to bring up an article I read on the growing of rice in countries where salt water has been filtering into the fresh water system. Obviously rice won't grow if it isn't in fresh water. There's now some genetically modified rice that is actually able to grow, or it's being proposed that it can grow, in salt water. These are not in countries like Canada. These are in countries where they actually are struggling to grow foods that become staple for them.
It seems to me that absolute safety is where we're going with regard to the labelling or with regard to the research that goes with it. Whether it's conventional, whether it's GMO, or whether it's organic, any of those three, is there any absolute safety? Is the risk any higher in GMOs, and have there been any studies to indicate that?
That's for Mr. Yada, Mr. Ellis, or whoever.
4:50 p.m.
Professor, Michael Smith Laboratories, University of British Columbia
There's no absolute safety in anything, obviously.
Is there any evidence that can quantify the risk? I would argue probably no. First of all, just what range of factors do you take into account? How many of the externalities do you address? It's almost a meaningless question.
I'm not saying it's something the public isn't interested in. I just don't think it's addressable. I think the question is far more complex than that.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
And maybe that's it; I think it is a question, actually, that consumers are really concerned about. You can say that it isn't one of value, but I think somebody should be able to tell us if the risk is higher in any of them. Is the risk higher in GMOs than it is in organics or in conventional? I think somebody should tell us that.
We've been having GMOs for I don't know how many years. If we're going to continue to adopt GMOs, somebody is going to have to raise the flag and say that this was a huge issue, that we did scientific research, that we did study after study. When that issue comes to us, then we're going to have to start looking at how we can actually feed some of the third world countries.
How many countries do you know of that have now opened their borders to some sort of acceptance of GMOs? Do you know if there are any coming in, mostly with grains?