Evidence of meeting #112 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was family.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
I'll go back to my question, through the distractions.
CAMH is working with different groups of people, including police services and veterans. Have you seen some differences with the farming community in terms of unique challenges they are facing, or is this really something we need to address on a broader scope through CAMH?
10:20 a.m.
Clinical Psychologist and Director, Badge of Life Canada, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
We provide services to a variety of very specific populations, very much as you mentioned—first responders and police—but also to our youth and our elderly. We have a variety of programs dealing with trauma, mood and anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, and as I mentioned, addictions, so there are a variety of services.
When it comes to our Canadian farmers, of course every population is very unique, and that's very important. It doesn't mean that different populations do not have similar stressors and concerns. They absolutely do, which is good because when we talk about assessment and treatment, we can use very similar skills and so on. Nevertheless, when we also provide assessment and intervention, we need to target it to the specific needs of the population. We need to be aware, as we just talked about, of the unique stressors that Canadian farmers go through.
One layer is very important. There has been some common conversation around the point at which there is a crisis so we can intervene. That's a very important question we need to find out about, which is also true for any population. Again, you mentioned police. We want to find out for our first responders and so on. Really also we want to make that shift right now for most populations and organizations. With mental health at work and everything, we're really working towards prevention more than on crisis management. It's really about mental health promotion and prevention, and early intervention.
If we target prevention rather than crisis intervention, not only for them but for our society, then as a nation as a whole, we would benefit most.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you very much.
Mr. McFadyen, with regard to Mobile Crisis Services, it's very interesting to see how we're trying to get face to face with people who are facing challenges.
I see on your website that in 2015 there were 23,286 people who contacted your group for help. How have things gone since 2015? Do you have numbers from 2016 and 2017 or even anecdotally? Is it increasing? Is it around the same?
10:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Mobile Crisis Services
The numbers on our website are in relation to the mobile crisis services we provide. That's our entire agency. We provide the 1-800 problem gambling helpline for the province, the farm stress line and also crisis intervention services for the city of Regina.
In this last fiscal year, 2017-18 we had just under 27,000 calls that came in to Mobile Crisis Services. In our last fiscal year, 320 calls came in to the farm stress line.
10:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Mobile Crisis Services
There were 320 calls that came into the farm stress line over the last fiscal year.
Part of the problem is awareness, getting the message out on the services that are available. It's being able to go out to the ag forums, to Agribition, to the different other ag expos, and also working with the Farm Credit corporation, with the publication that they're putting out in relationship to farm stress and mental health.
Hopefully, these types of things will help.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Right. I'm not sure how much time I have left after the intervention from the other side.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
My time is almost up.
Do we have farmers working with psychologists, like farmer intervention people, people supporting the other farmers in providing services?
10:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Mobile Crisis Services
That network is just starting to be developed with Bridges Health, trying to educate and provide mental health first aid so that they can recognize when there are mental health issues with the producers they're dealing with.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Longfield.
Mr. MacGregor, you have six minutes.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Dr. Kamkar, I think I'll start with you, being that you belong to the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.
Given the statistics that your organization is familiar with on people turning to substances to help them cope, namely alcohol, illicit drugs and so on, do you have any research regarding the use and abuse of substances within the farming community? Do you know how prevalent it is that people use these to help cope with their issues?
10:25 a.m.
Clinical Psychologist and Director, Badge of Life Canada, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
No, I do not have the answer to this. I'm not even sure we actually have that data available. That's again because of a lack of understanding and lack of research in regard to that. Certainly it would be very important.
We know that whatever data we also have in other populations, it's always good to keep in mind that these are only estimates. We have a lot of people who suffer in silence, who do not come forward and so on. That, of course, is one of the significant barriers we have right now with our Canadian farmers as well.
However, certainly we need to conduct that research, and hopefully with stigma reduction, we can have clear data and further understanding of their needs.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Stigma reduction is a very interesting term.
I know within the farming community—we've had lots of testimony to support this—that there is a stigma about coming out to talk about mental health issues.
We have had success in other professions, notably the Canadian Armed Forces, and among veterans groups, first responders. However, there's also a stigma surrounding the use of illicit substances—the stigma of their ongoing criminality.
I know that the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health has talked about the subject of decriminalization. Do you think, in trying to encourage people to come forward to seek help with substance abuse, particularly with illicit substances, that this is maybe a conversation we should start having?
10:30 a.m.
Clinical Psychologist and Director, Badge of Life Canada, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
Generally speaking, I think that any conversations around any health issue can start such a great path. However, it goes with the ups and downs. We're talking about human need, so absolutely it's very important.
I like the fact that you mentioned that with first responders, and police and veterans and the armed forces, we are noticing a stigma reduction. It took so much work. We have noticed that difference in the past five years, and more so in the past two to five years. There's still prominent stigma, absolutely, but we have worked so hard around changing the culture, which is very much needed right now.
We're for our Canadian farmers, and that's why what you're starting right now.... We're all sending our heart and gratitude to what you're doing right now, because it's very much that conversation, the dialogue, that is needed. Hopefully, they're also hearing us. When we are able to change their mindset and that culture, we're also able to reduce the stigma.
It's interesting, because if we also look at similarities across populations. I don't see much of a difference. The adage is very much the same there. It's the perception that if I talk, then it means I'm weak, that I'm dependent. It's not the case. It's very much learning that you can do the wonderful work that you're doing—we're so appreciative of that work—and you are also strong and powerful. At the same time, you can ask for help; you can be in need.
Those two issues are not mutually exclusive, and they're part of being a human being. That's the very concept that, hopefully, with a lot of ongoing conversation, as we're doing right now—discussions and dialogue and education—we can help to change the culture.
10:30 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you.
Mr. McFadyen, for the last couple of minutes I have, I'll turn to you.
You sit at a nexus, particularly with the information you have at your fingertips from the experiences of your organization about what works and what doesn't. You have a lot of those lived experiences. I think this is a very general question. Ultimately, we as a committee want to make recommendations, and we have fantastic analysts who are taking care and looking at all of the testimony. I want to give you the opportunity, in the minute and a half I have left.
From your point of view, with all the expertise you have, what do you think the strengths of the federal government are in tackling this issue, and what do you think we as a committee should be recommending that the federal government do more of?
10:30 a.m.
Executive Director, Mobile Crisis Services
I think research is certainly important, because that helps give us direction and a path to go on to provide services. I think certainly the government could fund a campaign in relationship to reducing the stigma of mental health, so that people feel more comfortable—individuals or farm families—in coming and seeking help. Also there's the issue of the isolation and how to address that.
It would be a communication strategy and then some strategy to develop addressing the isolation and the access to services, whether that's something that's Internet-based or video conferencing or through telephone. The need is to look at providing those services without the time-consuming aspect, taking away from the farming with the travelling time, etc. I think some farmers just don't seek help because of that.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both witnesses for being here. We really appreciate the time and effort you took to be here with us today, as well as your work.
I'll start with Mr. McFadyen.
Certainly as an agricultural producer and somebody who's been actively engaged in agriculture my entire life and seen not only my own struggles but the struggles of other members of my family who are also producers, it's something that's close to my heart.
I want to start by asking you how you feel the federal government could do a better job, or what measures could be put in place to help support farmers around mental illness and mental health care over a long-term strategy. What do you feel would be the best way forward or would have the most measurable impact in a positive manner for the agriculture community? How could the federal government help most quickly and with the most impact in supporting your work?
10:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Mobile Crisis Services
The access to services, I think, is the key piece. They kind of work together, reducing the stigma and also educating—the communications strategy in relation to letting people know of the services available.
When we triage people from crisis intervention, we need that next piece in relation to providing them with some ongoing services and for that to be done in a timely fashion. I think that portion of it is not available now. There are waiting lists for family counselling and mental health services.
I know that personally. My son experienced a mental health issue, and there was no predictability around that. He was in Toronto at the time and got services from CAMH, which was very responsive and made a significant difference in his life. He's found stability as a result. When you look at the rural population and you're talking about how to predict who's going to have a mental health crisis and who's not, we could have never predicted that with our son.
When you look at the people who access crisis services, you're looking at maybe 10% of the overall population who don't have those same social networks where they can get support. They don't have professional support. Sometimes it's a matter of not feeling comfortable about coming out and talking about the issues they're having.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Both to you and Ms. Kamkar, how do you feel we can address the stigma around mental health in agriculture because as somebody who's grown up in agriculture, I still have a lot of friends who farm. We touched on it a little in the first hour but as somebody who's still very engaged in the agricultural community, when we talk about stress and anxiety and depression and those mental health issues and different variations of them from within the agricultural community, we're talking about the majority of agricultural producers who suffer from some level of one of those ailments.
How do we lessen that stigma?
10:35 a.m.
Clinical Psychologist and Director, Badge of Life Canada, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
You're right about that. If we're talking about the majority, speaking of Canada overall, one in five individuals suffer from mental health problems, which is not surprising. It's the same for physical health problems. To find better ways to reach the population and also so they believe us, they trust us, comes over time. We need to be persistent, consistent and creative. Obviously, when we adopt an activity, there could always be trial and error.
For example, I would go specifically to all those places with anything that could be on television, any ads, anything within workplaces, anything that could be within their neighbourhood, the grocery store and so on, and put ads here or there.
As was mentioned, access to services is extremely important but also before access to services, there is the pain and the suffering in silence. Any of those conversations or anything in pamphlets that they would see, for us to reframe the culture and say they're struggling, at the same time is all within one package. That's very normal. Making that consistent so they see it and they also start talking about it is how we can see the changes. This is also what we have noted in the other populations.
The other aspect we see is how it works in other populations, When we have people within a population, it could be a president, a chair, a leader, whoever, talking about their own struggles, their own issues and normalizing them, then it makes others coming forward more comfortable.