Evidence of meeting #119 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
November 22nd, 2018 / 9:10 a.m.
Bev Shipley Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC
I don't need to add any more.
I'm very pleased that they're coming together. I am disappointed at how it happened. The minister knew and has actually complimented the committee for the work that it's doing on mental health, but nobody gave us any heads-up about what was coming.
All of a sudden, out of the blue, people are standing up, doing S. O. 31s and asking questions, and we're saying, “but we're in the middle of a study here”, which makes me begin to wonder why we're doing the study when the minister is coming out with an advisory group and asking them and what they're going to be putting forward. That was the disappointment.
I think we've been working very well through this study and others. That was a bit of a downside to it.
Obviously we support the motion. I'm glad to hear that you would do that and that we would get them in and that it needs to be a part of the end result.
I do not want to see what this committee has done being lost because we get trumped by that report. I'm not sure how that's going to unfold, because we're likely going to have a report done before whatever happens with the Farm Credit and the 4-H people. I'm not sure how that's actually going to end up and what impact it's going to have on our report. We'll have to deal with that as we go forward.
Thank you.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Shipley.
If there are no other comments, I shall seek consent to add these witnesses.
(Motion agreed to)
We're all good. We will have the three groups. We'll fit them into our calendar as we go. Thanks so much.
Monsieur Drouin, go ahead for for six minutes.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses.
I'll go with Mr. Menzies first. They probably just took the dust off your cardboard sign there and put it back up.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
They're souvenirs.
Your testimony came from the heart. You spoke from experience. I've had some friends who have committed suicide, but not on a farm. Personally I think we've probably all lived that. We've all known somebody who has gone through that.
With regard to your time in farming, you talked about social media and the pressures that exist now. I remember when I was in school that if a rumour started, it was just in the classroom, and if you were unlucky, it made it through the school, but nowadays, something starts and for farmers there are animal rights activists who really point fingers.
I'm not sure if they're really aware of the mental health challenges that doing that can pose for somebody who is 5,000 miles away and disconnected, but connected to their own community, working on acreages and acreages of land and, as you said, living where they work.
How do we prepare farmers to be better equipped to sustain that pressure, to take that pressure, but at the same time how do we inform the other side to understand the potential impacts that they're causing when they do that? I think there is a way to have a debate about these issues in a respectful manner. I'm just wondering if you've done some work through your organizations in terms of educating the public.
9:15 a.m.
As an Individual
Thank you.
That's a very tough question. If we had the answer or the solution to that, I think we'd all be better off: those who don't understand, those who are living the agricultural life, and those who are worried about their food supply—and they should be concerned. We have issues with food safety. They're absolutely unintentional, but those things happen.
To me it comes back to the findings of a committee such as this that brings it out in public. I would hope that some of the people who don't understand the stress they're putting on producers could actually hear some of these witnesses speak and say, “I follow social media, and you're attacking me and suggesting that I don't produce sustainably or safely the food that I'm going to provide to you.” To those people, that cuts deeply and, yes, it's going to be a stress to them.
I hate the word “educate”, but how do we get farmers to stand up and tell their story? It's a good story: the sustainability, the way we're—and I repeat myself—leaving the land better than when we....
Thirty per cent of the land that I first took over back in the seventies was alkaline. It was pure white. It wasn't growing a thing. Through continuous cropping and modern farming practices, now it's totally productive, except for the fact that it didn't rain this year. We've improved it. We've improved the way that we produce food. We've improved the volume of food that we can grow that helps feed the world. How do we tell that story to convince those people who are justifiably concerned about our producing it in a safe manner? It's education.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I have to say that Mr. Shipley, Mr. Berthold and I were just at a chicken farm. Mr. MacGregor had some folks there as well.
The difference in my short political career from 2015 to now is that some farmers were somewhat reticent to show pictures inside their farms and whatnot. The issue with that is that they let the other side tell their story on their behalf, and it's a picture that is false. They're creating a narrative that is not true.
I was speaking with a young farmer there, and he said to take pictures. He thought it was important that we show that chicken farmers are good stewards of the land. They take care of their animals. It's not in their interests to not have safety on their farms.
Speaking of safety and food safety, I want to speak to you, Mr. James-Davies, with regard to training. When CFIA goes on the farm, do they offer that particular hand in saying that it's their hope that they don't have to shut down the whole operation because of TB or whatnot? It will have a mental health impact, so do they give farmers a number to call in case they need some help? Is that offered through CFIA agents?
9:15 a.m.
Senior Director, West Operations, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
That's a good question.
In our last couple of outbreaks.... There's a lot of information that a producer has to grapple with early on: the regulatory side, why we are here, and what we are doing.
As I mentioned, we try to work really closely with our partners, whether that is the industry association or the provincial one. We actually put that together in a package, and part of that package is the key contacts, the provincial health authorities—
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. James-Davies. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to cut you off.
Mr. MacGregor, you have six minutes.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you very much, Chair.
Mr. Menzies, I also want to echo the comments of my colleague about your heartfelt opening testimony. Thank you for sharing your experience not only as a farmer but also from the regulatory side. Having been a member of Parliament and a member of the government, you really have seen this issue from all sides.
One of the most rewarding jobs I've ever had was when I worked at a blueberry farm as a teenager. The only constant thing on the farm was the fact that we were bringing blueberries up from the field. As you said, when you look around a farm, there's always something to do.
Even though it wasn't my farm, I can remember the huge sense of pride I had in seeing customers leave with blueberries that I helped bring out from the field and seeing the value that was placed on that product. We really cared about how we looked after those plants and the quality of the product that was going out the farm gate.
We've heard from a number of witnesses who were talking about the problems with social media. It's a new challenge that farmers are now having to deal with.
When you look at this committee's work and the possible recommendations that we can make, tailored in with the experience that you have, in what ways can we help re-establish—because I think the value has always been there—the value that farmers have for our society in terms of telling their story to the public and trying to provide that counter-narrative about the real worth they have?
9:20 a.m.
As an Individual
Once again, that's a great question. I guess my answer would go back to education, but maybe we need to take it back a step.
Yes, there's Ag for Life in Alberta, and we're going to provide this unit to go to the schools, but there's always the challenge of fitting that into the curriculum. Is there time in a curriculum that's so full now to help young people who are going to grow up and maybe work on a blueberry farm—or maybe not—as they mature? You were privileged to be able to work on a farm. I always say that farm kids are so fortunate because they have to learn to live in both worlds, the city world and the country world. They're lucky. Our kids were lucky that they were able to do that.
How do we get this instilled in education? How do we get it to fit into the education system, not to show biases but just to teach them how important food production is in terms of where our food comes from, how it's produced sustainably and that it's healthy? We have to start at a younger age, in my view. The challenge, as the educators will quickly tell you, is in where it can be fitted into the curriculum.
9:20 a.m.
As an Individual
To me, it's a good fundamental education. We should be teaching people how to cook: how to prepare food, how to clean it and how to make sure that you are putting it on the table as safely as it was provided by a farmer. That's not even in the schools anymore:
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you.
Dr. James-Davies, the CFIA of course plays a hugely important role. You've talked about some of the challenges in being a regulatory agency. It's necessary to enforce certain rules to give the public confidence, but sometimes that can be tough for farmers to deal with. In your opening testimony, I think you very clearly underlined how difficult it can be to share bad news with farmers and so on.
I think you're in a unique position in being within an agency of the federal government. You really have seen this issue from a unique perspective. In going forward with what this committee's work is right now, do you think there are any specific recommendations that you would like to see from your unique vantage point? In ways specifically related to the federal government, what could we be doing better? Where do you think more resources could be put to address this problem?
9:20 a.m.
Senior Director, West Operations, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
That's a great question. As we've talked about, I think it's really about that balance and taking the time when we can take the time to balance the needs of an individual producer versus the needs of the country as a whole and the sector as a whole.
Agriculture is an export industry in Canada, so our strong domestic programs and our regulatory base keep those borders open, but as I say, I think that as we continue to evolve our programs and the training of our staff, it's to always keep that balance in mind that there are real people on the ends of those regulations.
I think we continue to make really good progress. It's at the forefront of the minds of the people who go out there every day. I have a lot of confidence that my colleagues here in Ottawa who write those things on behalf of the minister have that in mind. They're writing for the national herd while remembering that it has an impact on an individual farm. We continue that good work and make that our norm.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor and Mr. James-Davies.
Now we have Mr. Longfield for six minutes.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you both for being here.
I will start with Mr. Menzies.
As a former MP, you know we get into situations sometimes that are difficult to handle when we're working with our communities.
Last Saturday night I was at an event. The parking lot attendant from the University of Guelph is losing his son to cancer, probably by Christmas, so I went to the event to celebrate the life of his son while he is still alive.
There was a person at a table who looked like he'd had a stroke. Part of his face was not doing well. I started talking to that person, and it turned out that he was a farmer. He had put a gun in his mouth and blown away part of his brain. His wife was there. His wife got the suicide note. Now this person goes to talk at schools. There's a program in Waterloo Wellington called Beautiful Minds, and he will talk to school kids about suicide and the stress of being on the farm.
You mentioned Ag for Life as a school program. We have a school program locally. There are a lot of disjointed efforts, and as a former member of Parliament, you know that trying to pull all this together....
From your work in the not-for-profit sector with regard to things like Beautiful Minds or Ag for Life, could you maybe comment on some of the direct connections you might have had with people who are benefiting from the programs or are courageous enough to stand forward and talk about their challenges?
9:25 a.m.
As an Individual
I think the most courage I have witnessed is from some of your witnesses who have come before you. Once again, I will highlight how important this study is.
With regard to Beautiful Minds, I don't know that I've even heard of it. I know where Guelph is, of course. I've been there many times.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
I said there's a movie, and he said, “No, no; this has been going for eight years—before the movie.”
9:25 a.m.
As an Individual
But you nailed it: it's working together.
I happen to sit on the board of Ag for Life, but there's Ag in the Classroom and many others. I hate even starting to talk about them because I don't know them all. I'm sure in Atlantic Canada there are some that are trying to do the same thing. Hopefully you have brought people in that you've given the same question to and asked why they aren't working together.
We used to struggle with this. This is why we put together the Grain Growers of Canada. We had wheat growers in the Peace River country talking about the same thing that was happening in Nova Scotia, and yet they weren't communicating and raising the same issue. We can do that with this too. I'm working with our Ag for Life to coordinate more closely with Ag in the Classroom and any other group that wants to come together.
Hopefully this report will stimulate and overcome the inertia of doing this alone. I go back to the comment that farmers want to do it alone, and so do a lot of associations. Well, let's do it together, and let's have more impact.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you.
Dr. James-Davies, Farm Credit Canada was a witness at our committee. They talked about the fact that they weren't mental health experts, but they were being tasked by the federal government to help to deliver some programs. They showed us a pamphlet this week that they've mailed out to all MPs. It's something they have developed. They are also using 4-H as partners to deliver programs—this pamphlet that they developed—to school kids.
When you were giving your testimony, I was thinking of when I was in business and I had to cut back on staff. I would quite often have counsellors in the next room for staff who were getting the news that they weren't going to be working with us for at least a period of time. There was a layoff or whatever.
When you go in, do you have, let's say the FCC or other partners—the Canadian Mental Health Association—deliver the bad news, or do you take the bad news and then go back to the partners, or is that an opportunity maybe for future support that you could provide through partners in the next room?