Agriculture Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2018

[Dr. Rick James-Davies]

That's a really interesting question. It's a little in that balance around anonymity and when that news breaks. We work very hard to maintain the privacy of producers.

You talked a bit about social media. After that first call from the CFIA, the first reaction is to hunker down and not let anybody know, so we try to be really sensitive to that. We talk about resources that are available, the possibility of bringing.... When we make that first visit, it's a very delicate time—and I would use that expression—but absolutely, I think that's a place we can continue to make progress.

As I said, we do it with provincial health partners and associations. Producers' relationships with their own associations are a little different in all of our sectors. In some of those circumstances, they would like to talk to someone from their association first, or a neighbour—somebody who understands what they're going through. We often see, in the animal health space, that new farms reach out and talk to somebody who went through it last time. I think we can see that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you.

Mr. Peschisolido, go ahead for six minutes.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Menzies and Mr. James-Davies, for appearing before us.

Mr. Menzies, those were phenomenal words. You're a man who is able to communicate, and I think that's what we need. We need two things, and you said that Mr. Longfield nailed it. I think he did, but you did as well when you said that you have to work together.

For all of the various folks involved in the farming industry and those who are outside, I think the ultimate goal is to have a safe supply of food. However, the folks looking in don't fully understand the challenges that farmers deal with. You talked about a solitary life and how you see it. How do you actually bring people together in concrete ways?

I'll give you an example from my neck of the woods of Steveston East Richmond. The farming is a little bit different. It's blueberries and cranberries. We used to have a hog industry, but not any longer. We have some chickens, organic and non-organic.

There's a movement headed by a great chap, Dr. Kent Mullinix, who heads up the food sustainability program at Kwantlen Polytechnic. He's trying to bring all the levels of government together, as well as the social groups, to head out to the schools and talk about where food comes from and try to connect with the guys in Richmond who buy the food—and not only the farmers in East Richmond and in Steveston, but farmers all across the country.

Based on your experience, what should he and other organizations who want to do this look at, and what factors should they focus on?

[Ted Menzies]

I'm not claiming to be an expert in this field at all, but how many of these groups do we have across the country that are all starting to do the same thing? Some of them have been doing it for some time, and you and I don't know about the other ones. There's the disconnect in that. It's about getting us together—I can't emphasize that enough—to share our story.

Another not-for-profit board I sit on is the Canadian Agricultural Hall of Fame, and we just inducted Peter Dhillon, whom you know, and recognized him for the work he's done on cranberries. What a success story—taking what was waste land and growing cranberries. That's what farmers do.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

His dad did.

[Ted Menzies]

His dad did. We had to recognize Peter and how he extended what his father did.

There are some great success stories in a healthy supply of food. How do we get the Peter Dhillons of the world to share with people, to help that story, to help those who are feeling the stress of being attacked because, “Oh, you're a big cranberry grower. You don't care what the food's like.” Well, yes, he does. Of course he does.

It comes back to getting these organizations together and having one solid message, whether it's working with the 4-H or FCC or whatever group it is, and telling that good message that will hopefully avoid some of the attacks that put such stress on farmers. That's part of it.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

You also mentioned overcoming the stigma of mental health. You described the stereotype of farmers being six feet tall and bulletproof, but obviously no one is.

[Ted Menzies]

I'm living proof of that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Me too.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

What can the federal government do to help organizations and professional groups get at that stigma?

[Ted Menzies]

They can be the organizer. I know some CAP funding, Canadian Agricultural Partnership funding, has gone to some of the educational components of this. I hope your study will make some recommendations, whatever funding is going to be spent on this, on getting those groups together and letting the farmers deliver the message.

Ag in the Classroom sends farmers in to speak to students. Here again it's a small snippet of their day, but they share with them the story of farmers.

It's about getting farmers to tell their story. If government can provide the avenue for these folks to get together so they can get that message out, that will take a lot of stress off the farmers. We need to get farmers to stand up and say, “You know what? I went through a lot. I was stressed because of weather; I was stressed watching my neighbour try and destroy himself.”

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. James-Davies, it's obviously a stressful situation when you and others need to go in and tell farmers that you're going to have to kill x number of animals. You talked a bit about that process. What factors do you use in coming to a determination on whether you will kill animals?

[Dr. Rick James-Davies]

At the foundation of it all is the science behind it. Yes, it's a question about animals, but it's equally true in our plant and food space. It is the realities of those diseases, how fast they move, the impact on those herds—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I'm going to have to cut you off again. Sorry, Mr. James-Davies.

Mr. Shipley is next, for six minutes.

[Bev Shipley]

Thank you both for coming out. We have the greatest industry in the world in Canada, and that's agriculture. I believe that to be true. It sustains life for Canadians and many people around the world, because we export. I don't believe food safety is an issue here in Canada. It's often because of the foods that come in. We've never had a situation where it hit the marketplace. If we have, like BSE, it got stopped. The media coverage of what that was going to do was really detrimental to our agriculture industry, but we never stopped it. It went on.

Mr. James-Davies, I always get concerned when we review the transportation of livestock and the length of time livestock can stay on a truck. Coming from the west to Ontario, they want to unload them at Thunder Bay. Every time we unload livestock, we create an opportunity for risk. If an animal were to injure a leg or break a leg, actually there's nothing wrong with that animal except for its broken leg, but that producer has lost that whole animal. Those are stresses that are brought on by regulations driven by outside sources that actually don't understand the industry but are having a huge impact on farmers' mental health and the stress put upon them.

I mention that not to blame you, but to get assistance from people such as your inspectors, who actually understand the livestock industry and the transportation of an animal. We're not talking about moving people. If we had their assistance, perhaps we wouldn't get drawn into these things that place extreme stress on our producers.

Mr. Menzies, I also want to thank you for what you said. I'm just wondering how we train the trainers. You talked about the professional people, and we do too. Some of us here actually went through the eighties. Maybe you did too, although you don't look old enough.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ted Menzies]

Do you think? I don't dye my hair grey.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Bev Shipley]

There's an incredible wealth of knowledge there to help. Is there something we can do here in terms of government programming? I think there are many people who walk through that, but they may not know more than how to come alongside. We heard that from witnesses, not unlike what you talked about this morning, who have experienced it.

The academic side of it is the professional side. The academic side isn't necessarily what the farmer needs to come alongside. Sometimes that person will need some help. Is there something you can suggest in terms of how we might train the trainers, the trainer being a person who's gone through it before? I'm wondering if you have any suggestions, because that really is what it's coming down to.

[Ted Menzies]

You mean mentorship.

[Bev Shipley]

Yes.

[Ted Menzies]

One other privilege of having the experience of being involved in agriculture and having this role is that I've been asked to mentor young farmers and other people and to share some of the experiences, including what we lived through and how we dealt with 20% interest on our farms.

I think I shared with you before, Bev, about the first farmland I bought. By the time I'd finally paid it off, I'd paid for it for four times over. To live through that kind of stress, number one, you need a strong marriage. Your wife has to slap you upside the head, not physically but just to get your attention, and say, “Put this in perspective. You still have your health. You still have your family. We'll get through this.”

I think we have a lot to pass on to some of these people. This too shall pass, so be strong and stay with it. I think there's a huge opportunity for mentors.

[Bev Shipley]

I'm glad you mentioned that, because our spouses or significant others play such a significant role, and often we may not include them in everything. I think we've talked about that. We hold back because we don't want to expose them sometimes to the full difficulty of how we're feeling. We want to try to protect them. On the other hand, when they don't understand what we're going through, they sometimes don't understand how we're reacting to them.

I think that goes back to that professional assistance coming alongside those who have walked it. I think we heard that a number of times.

I do want to go to Ag for Life—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Mr. Shipley, we're out of time. I'm sorry.