Evidence of meeting #67 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consumers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard
Scott Ross  Director of Business Risk Management and Farm Policy, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Dale Adolphe  Interim Executive Director, Soy Canada
Chris Masciotra  Director, Corporate Affairs, Soy Canada
Jean-Charles Le Vallée  Associate Director, Food Horizons Canada, The Conference Board of Canada
Dan Darling  President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Ashley St Hilaire  Director, Programs and Government Relations, Canadian Organic Growers
Jim Robbins  President, Organic Federation of Canada, Canadian Organic Growers
Brady Stadnicki  Policy Analyst, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Madam Boucher.

Is it not the NDP's turn?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

We decided to continue the order this time around. She will have the fourth one.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

I'm sorry, Ms. Boucher. I just wanted to make sure.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

I'll get back to my question. Thank you.

I see the Liberals do not want to let me talk. I'm quite upset, sir.

5:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

On a more serious note, I would like to say that I was surprised to see that a new food guide is in the process of being completed. As always, we were not informed. I would not want history to repeat itself by creating a divide between urban and rural areas, between productions. In the new guide, dairy products are separated from other products, which is unfortunate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two kinds of agriculture go hand in hand. Some prefer organic products whereas others prefer dairy products. I think the preferences of all Canadians must be respected.

What do you think about that?

5:05 p.m.

President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Dan Darling

Yes. I couldn't agree more. We represent our beef producers, but we're certainly not out to talk down dairy farmers, chicken farmers, or organic farmers, because we all fit into a niche that gives the consumers whatever they want. We have that luxury.

Yes, we are opposed to any kind of guide that will make winners or losers. We're not on for that. Also, like any other time something is brought in, we would certainly have liked to get in our opinion before, rather than afterwards.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Thank you.

5:05 p.m.

Brady Stadnicki Policy Analyst, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Could I add something?

Getting back to Canada's food guide, we presented some research from the University of Alberta around the updated guide's focus on eating less red meat. We framed it to have a bit more of a science background, but we were also framing it more positively.

I have here just a sample from the University of Alberta's study. It looked at 557 multi-ethnic youth in Edmonton. Many of them showed deficiencies in vitamin B12, zinc, and selenium, and in vitamin B6, iron, and magnesium, which are all nutrients that are found in red meat and beef. We are just wanting to be able to say that beef, our product, is a great way to have people utilize and gain these nutrients that some research is saying are short in youth and people who are growing.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

I would like to ask another question about the organic products.

There are more and more products on the market called organic, and their prices are much higher than those of non-organic foods. In July, a TV program on organic food was broadcast on Canal Vie. According to that program, we have to be careful about the word “organic”, because some foods are described as organic when they are not.

How can we ensure that the products on the shelves are truly organic?

5:05 p.m.

Director, Programs and Government Relations, Canadian Organic Growers

Ashley St Hilaire

We have a federal Canadian organic standard, as we were describing in our testimony. It is backed by the government. We have a government-owned brand for organic products in Canada. The seal reads “Canada Organic”, and consumers everywhere can look for those labelled products at grocery stores, farmers' markets, and wherever they buy organics.

Now, one of the deficiencies in our regulatory system right now is that many provinces do not have their own provincial organic regulation. What this means is that any products sold only within the province, not crossing any provincial or international borders, are subject to the regulations of that province. Right now, only five provinces in Canada, including B.C., starting this fall, and Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Manitoba, have a provincial regulation. We're working on one very proactively in Ontario right now. However, internationally and across provincial borders, we have a very robust regulatory system that enforces the Canadian organic standards, and the CFIA is part of that enforcement.

Yes, consumers who are buying within the province, at farmers' markets especially, need to ask their farmers if the product is organic and if the farmers have gone through certification, because in our minds “organic” means certification. Right now, every province is working towards a provincial organic regulation.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Ms. St Hilaire.

Thank you, Mrs. Boucher. I gave you a few extra seconds.

Ms. Quach, you have the floor for three minutes.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses for being here. I am very pleased to be here, partly because I am working on a bill that includes a federal strategy to promote the purchase of local food.

As we know, about 10,000 family farms have had to close in the last decade. Despite that, one in eight jobs in Canada is still connected to the agri-food industry.

Buying local creates local jobs, in addition to helping us reduce our carbon footprint and ensure that food is grown in compliance with set health and environmental standards.

Do you think buying local should be part of the government's food strategy? How can buying local be integrated into this strategy?

5:10 p.m.

Policy Analyst, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Brady Stadnicki

When it comes to marketing and being local, I definitely think there's some room to work there.

From the cattle industry's perspective, when you're talking to, say, the Ottawa area and the local consumer base, they're going to want the types of products that Canadians enjoy—steaks, roasts, and hamburger—but there are a lot of pieces of the animal that Canadians don't particularly enjoy either. That's why having that balance between having that local market but also having a strong emphasis on export markets and being able to sell each piece, such as cow tongue, for instance, to the buyer willing to pay the most. There definitely needs to be a balance and still a strong export aspect in the food policy.

5:10 p.m.

President, Organic Federation of Canada, Canadian Organic Growers

Jim Robbins

Well, organic has a very heavy emphasis on local food production. The cattle that I market I do sell to kill plants, but we also direct market our beef. We do that by word of mouth, basically, in our friend group and in family. If you buy a quarter of beef, you have the right to decide how that animal is butchered and which parts of it you want in which particular ways. That's how we market a certain proportion of our beef.

In western Canada, a lot of organic agriculture is export-oriented agriculture, but we have a strong, strong interest in local markets and farmers' markets. Even in the case of my own farm, the farmers' market is a way that I can market a significant part of my production, so we want that component.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Robbins.

We have about 14 minutes left. If it's okay with everyone, we'll give you each one question of four minutes.

Mr. Berthold, you will split your time.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Chair, I had a question, but I would rather give my four minutes to my colleague Mr. Barlow, who would like to ask a few questions as the critic on beef. In fact, Mr. Scheer is so committed to agriculture that he appointed two critics in the House of Commons to deal with the issue.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Berthold.

Jim, I'm curious. With your ability and your organic beef, would it also benefit you if we addressed some interprovincial trade issues so that you were able to sell your beef outside of Saskatchewan without having to go through a federally inspected kill plant?

5:15 p.m.

President, Organic Federation of Canada, Canadian Organic Growers

Jim Robbins

Interprovincial trade is of interest to us, and of course, through the Canadian organic standards, I have that right. You're right that at a kill-plant level, there's a potential problem.

At the moment, if I want to direct market to even family in Alberta, I have to do that through a federally inspected plant. I can do that. That's physically possible. There's a plant close enough to me for that to happen, but that plant also either has to be certified organic or has to have a memorandum of understanding on that. It's not impossible, but I think that provincially regulated plants held to a high standard offer consumers a very good assurance of the product that they are receiving. In my case, the plant that I usually go through for direct marketing of animals is a plant that's provincially regulated. I've never had a problem. There is no difficulty with the product that comes out of that plant. The standards are high, and the province maintains those high standards.

But, yes, it would be nice if there were more flexibility.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Staying with CFIA, I think you're right that we need to make sure that if you go through a provincial or federal plant, you can market your product outside of Saskatchewan or Alberta.

5:15 p.m.

President, Organic Federation of Canada, Canadian Organic Growers

Jim Robbins

Obviously, the standards have to be comparable in that case.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

That's exactly right.

We were talking about animal safety as part of this as well.

Dan, you touched on it. We talked about the new transportation guidelines that CFIA is putting through. In my opinion, the more you unload and load cattle, the more opportunity you have to harm the animals. I think that's an issue as well, is it not? It's not just the financing and the time but also the actual transportation issues.

5:15 p.m.

President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Dan Darling

Actually, that is exactly one of the biggest issues, and in fact, we've testified here on that. I know the vet association has as well.

When cattle are loaded on a liner, they jostle for position, and they get into position, and they're loaded tight enough to allow them to rest on each other so the movement of the truck doesn't bother them. That's fine. When they're off-loaded—for rest, for feed, for water—the problem is, they have to develop that pecking order all over again. They'll circle the pen, and they'll decide who's boss. In a four- or eight-hour layover, they might not rest for that length of time.

The vet association testified here as to what is adequate feed, what is adequate water, and what is adequate rest. There is no science base to the new transportation regulations that would tell them that. All of it is a cost to our producers and to the consumer at the end of the day. The longer they are there, the greater the cost, and so on.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you.

Mr. Poissant, you have four minutes.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude Poissant Liberal La Prairie, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon. Thank you for being here today.

Today, the quality of our witnesses is extraordinary.

That being said, I would like to clarify something about the motion that was introduced earlier. It was not rejected; we just postponed the discussion on whether we should study it or not.

A number of topics were discussed, including education. We also talked about inspection methods, the importance of not working in a vacuum, the labelling of GMOs, the increase in production and quality in light of climate change, among other things.

How can research contribute to the policy we want to implement, but also to climate change?