Agriculture Committee on Jan. 26th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

We're very tight on time, so I'm going to have to cut it off here. You might have a chance to answer it later with somebody else.

Go ahead, Mr. Epp, for five minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Happy New Year to everyone, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing.

I'm going to begin with Mr. Davies. I will make a comment and then pose a question. We'll try it, and then we'll move on.

In preparing for this, I did speak with a pork producer in my riding, down in the most southern part of Canada here, who ships to you in Quebec. He just expressed gratitude for the special arrangements you have made through this difficult time, for capacity and making arrangements to have that slaughtered in the States.

I will pass that along. We're somewhat aware of the challenges with labour that you talked about.

The question I have, if we can get this by translation, is what percentage of your business is export-focused and what percentage is domestic.

[Richard Davies]

I will try to answer.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Sorry, I think we've agreed that we'll have to submit the answer in writing.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

You can ask the question and we'll certainly—

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Okay, I would ask for a response to the following question. I assume that the bulk of your business, and I could be wrong here, is export. When you're dealing into that retail trade and export business, compare that to the environment that you're selling into in Canada. We've heard lots of calls for a code of conduct, or something along those lines, so I'm looking for a comparison to the markets that you're selling into with the balance of power across that retail trade. That's what I'm looking for.

I'll move to Mr. Eikelenboom. I spoke with a local cattle drover, again from southern Ontario. He shared with me a graph that was presented by Dr. Sarah Lloyd at the Big Ag conference on January 16 in the U.S. There's a 10-year profile of U.S. pricing that shows prices per hundredweight paid to the producer and cents per pound to the retail trade. It begins in January 2010, and up until about mid-summer 2014, they track it. Obviously, there's the processing differential, but there's a marked divergence starting from about mid-summer 2014 to the present time, and the chart goes to November 2020.

Can you comment on that? You've talked about some of your regional challenges. This is an American pricing, but I'm told by my Ontario drover that he's experiencing a similar divergence here. Can you comment on that and what might be some of the drivers of that?

[Anthony Eikelenboom]

Come again? I don't really understand your question.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Sure. Basically, the trend was for rising cattle prices at the retail level. There was a rising trend to the producer. That trend held until about mid-August 2014. I wish I could just flip my other screen and have you see it. Then there's a marked difference from about summer 2014 to the present where that spread is widening markedly with what the producer receives.

[Anthony Eikelenboom]

Okay. I don't know if I can really answer that question. I'm not familiar with that stuff that's happening in the States, but I can speak to maybe some of the markets here in Nova Scotia. I find when we can pay more for our product, I don't find the spread in the stores goes up or goes down. I find that follows the live animal, or maybe that the live animal price follows the meat price in the store. I wouldn't say there's any sense of big gouging going on amongst the retailers to the producers. I think it's relatively a fair price here in Nova Scotia.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Okay, thank you. The allegation to me was that because of a lack of processing capacity and because the line space is at a premium, those margins are widening. I didn't know if that same dynamic was presenting itself in Atlantic Canada.

As I understand, Canada's status regarding BSE is changing. We're going to be a controlled-risk country. Would you suspect there might be advantages for some of the BSE regulations in Canada to be relaxed, or is that not worth the risk moving forward?

[Anthony Eikelenboom]

I guess personally I like the rules that are in effect right now in Canada. I find they divide the country nicely. I think we're divided into three to four areas, so if one part of the country does show a case of the mad cow, or whatever, then that part of the country is going to be closed off and the rest of the country can operate, whereas back in whatever year it was—it was a long time ago, I was just a little guy then—the whole country had to shut down.

I would say I like it the way it is, versus maybe changing the rules.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Eikelenboom.

Ms. Bessette, I believe that you'll be sharing your time with Mr. Blois. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

My questions are for you, Mr. Davies. I took note of your remarks. You said that, with its 30 years of experience, Olymel has a successful business model based on a large workforce that requires foreign workers. We know that labour is a major issue for food-processing plants.

Can you explain why hiring temporary foreign workers is necessary and beneficial for your business?

Second, I want to know what other measures should be taken to support the hiring of workers in processing plants, particularly in the regions.

Third, in your opinion, what limits growth in the processing sector?

These were my questions. I'll give Mr. Blois the rest of my time.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you, Lyne.

Anthony, I have probably two minutes left and I just want to finish on a couple of different questions. First, we've talked a lot about federal versus provincially licensed. I know you're not a producer yourself, but you deal with producers, whether it's in beef...and of course the agriculture community is quite small in the maritime provinces. What is the advantage to having a federally inspected slaughterhouse? Certainly what I've heard on the ground is that having that in place, allowing the animals to be produced through the federal mechanism, would allow more producers to sell into the retail stores like Sobeys, Loblaws and Walmart. Am I correct in saying that?

[Anthony Eikelenboom]

Yes, you're very correct in saying that, Kody. Again, it goes back to what I said there a little while ago. I think having a federal plant here in Nova Scotia will get our producers on a level playing ground. It's so hard to get our merchandise here from the provincial plants. I tell all my farmers that every time I buy an animal it always has to go up the road. I think a good goal for the farmers here, the agriculture community here in Nova Scotia, is to be able to keep it at home, and then I think it would better help everybody in the agriculture industry here in the Maritimes.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Anthony, when you say “up the road” you don't just mean from Shubenacadie to Truro; you mean up the road from Nova Scotia to Saint-Hyacinthe, Quebec, or some other region outside of Atlantic Canada. I had the chance to bring you on here to bring this perspective. We've talked a lot about Nova Scotia, but surely when we talk about economies of scale it's not just about provincial boundaries; it's about looking at the maritime region as a whole, perhaps even Atlantic Canada if we include Newfoundland, and looking at ways to create those economies of scale.

Mr. MacGregor talked to you about co-operatives and different models to make that work. Is it fair to say that it's not just about Nova Scotia, but about creating a regional approach to tackle some of these issues and opportunities in the days ahead?

[Anthony Eikelenboom]

For sure, it would work great. I'll just go back and tell you a little bit about Scotian here. When I said “up the road” there, we have to sell our animals down to Pennsylvania. We have to sell our animals into Guelph. We have to put our calves into Saint-Hyacinthe. There are even some cows that go to a few sales in Ontario and other auctions in Quebec. With what your saying about the co-operatives and everything, it would definitely help the agriculture industry here in Nova Scotia. It would be nice to be able to just pick up your animals and go down the road five minutes instead of picking up your animals, bringing them to my place, and then they have to go up the road for 20 hours or whatever the time frame may be.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, these are all the questions I have.

I see it's about 4:30, so I would like to thank the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Blois, and thank you for that extra time.

I would suggest that anyone who was on this panel—

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Sorry, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Go ahead.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I don't want to press the issue. However, I do want to raise an important point of order regarding the technical side of interpretation.

We were the ones who asked to hear from the Olymel representatives, and I have many questions for them. I know that we'll receive their responses eventually. However, I'd like to ask for something for the next meeting.

This isn't the first sound issue in the committee. I know that there was an irregularity in the shipping of the headset. That isn't the problem here. It's a technical issue. The issue should be identified before the next meeting.

Would it be possible to reschedule the witnesses to appear, if feasible, at another meeting? That way, the witnesses who have already prepared their presentations and who have important things to contribute to the committee can do so properly and, above all, in their own language. This is a very important point.

This doesn't just concern the Bloc members. There are also members from other political parties who don't speak much English. The issue must be resolved for everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I completely agree with you, Mr. Perron. We must be able to speak. Unfortunately, today, there was no other way to do so. If the committee wants to hear from the witness again at another meeting, that's entirely possible.